(08-15-2016 09:37 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

(08-15-2016 09:28 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I don't know how you can say that the news was in the cycle for 1 day and it's totally forgotten by the Big 12 presidents. You have absolutely no way to know that at all whatsoever. It could easily break BYU's chances of making it.

I can say it because it's no longer being talked about on the national news outlets.

I don't know how big of an issue it is, but whether its being talked about on the national news outlets tells us close to nothing about it. University Presidents are academic politicians and the headaches that the LGBT activists can make for them are about University politics.

And the activists know they only have to get to three to block the move.

(08-15-2016 10:18 PM)Tigersmoke3 Wrote:  Anyone who thinks that byu's religious issues towards women and lbgt community are petty has to really be a homer.

And yet Memphis would love to have BYU on their schedule or even share a conference with them. All of a sudden BYU religious beliefs has become an issue. Smoke, you should be the last poster playing the homer card.

(08-15-2016 06:17 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-15-2016 05:52 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  They should out all three programs plus Connecticut and be done with it. They would not regret it.

If they can get past BYU's issues and Houston can muster enough votes, I think it will be those 3 + Memphis. But right now, I think waffling on BYU and UH is what is causing the delay.

Still clinging to the delusion that Memphis is getting invited to the Big 12 I see.

I see no problem in playing you or being in a conference with you all (I'm assuming you're a byu fan apologies if I'm wrong). I'll have no problem if you end up in the AAC and I would see it as a great move because beggars can't be choosy but the big12 and fox just aren't as desperate for a team with byu's religious issues as some want or hope they are. Why would billion dollar entities unnecessarily introduce those issues into an unstable situation?

(08-15-2016 07:52 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(08-15-2016 07:51 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(08-15-2016 07:03 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(08-15-2016 03:37 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(08-15-2016 02:59 PM)ECU86 Wrote:  Houston makes no sense... adds nothing.. why 5 schools from Texas in the same conference.. that's nuts. BYU, Cinn, make sense.. Then if they go 4... they need to increase the size of the Big 12 foot print.

Because Texas is massive and has more people in it than Ohio, Tennessee, Colorado, Utah, Connecticut, and Idaho combined. The Big 12 is losing the Houston market to the SEC. If the Big 12 passes on UH and another P5 takes us at a later date, they will forever become third fiddle in the soon to be third largest city in the country, a city they supposedly "own".

The ACC also has 8 schools in a smaller footprint than that of the 5 potential Texas schools.

That whole argument is nonsense. You basically want to punish a deserving school for something as arbitrary as where the state lines were drawn. Perhaps if it makes you feel better, you can pretend that Houston is in Louisiana, Lubbock is in New Mexico, and Fort Worth is in Oklahoma.

But Houston is East Carolina of North Carolina.

Except Houston has FAR more history than East Carolina. Houston with 5 major bowl games, to none for ECU.

I'm a huge ECU fan, but the differences don't stop there.

That was a bizarre comparison.

Yeah there are a lot of differences between ECU and UH. ECU has a winning record head to head against UH. ECU won more championships in C-USA in the many years shared there between the 2 schools, ECU consistently averages many more fans in attendance, ECU actually beats its in state P5 rivals consistently and actually has the potential to be THE premiere football school of its state (not as big of a state as Texas (#9) but a state that's projected to grow into the top 5 nationally within the next decade). A school and fan base that supports its program through thick and thin in good times as well as bad. But who's comparing?

(08-15-2016 10:39 PM)Tigersmoke3 Wrote:  I see no problem in playing you or being in a conference with you all (I'm assuming you're a byu fan apologies if I'm wrong). I'll have no problem if you end up in the AAC and I would see it as a great move because beggars can't be choosy but the big12 and fox just aren't as desperate for a team with byu's religious issues as some want or hope they are. Why would billion dollar entities unnecessarily introduce those issues into an unstable situation?

I'm not a BYU fan. I just have an opinion like everyone else.

(08-15-2016 10:48 PM)Indiana Bones Wrote:  

(08-15-2016 07:52 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(08-15-2016 07:51 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(08-15-2016 07:03 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(08-15-2016 03:37 PM)Kronke Wrote:  Because Texas is massive and has more people in it than Ohio, Tennessee, Colorado, Utah, Connecticut, and Idaho combined. The Big 12 is losing the Houston market to the SEC. If the Big 12 passes on UH and another P5 takes us at a later date, they will forever become third fiddle in the soon to be third largest city in the country, a city they supposedly "own".

The ACC also has 8 schools in a smaller footprint than that of the 5 potential Texas schools.

That whole argument is nonsense. You basically want to punish a deserving school for something as arbitrary as where the state lines were drawn. Perhaps if it makes you feel better, you can pretend that Houston is in Louisiana, Lubbock is in New Mexico, and Fort Worth is in Oklahoma.

But Houston is East Carolina of North Carolina.

Except Houston has FAR more history than East Carolina. Houston with 5 major bowl games, to none for ECU.

I'm a huge ECU fan, but the differences don't stop there.

That was a bizarre comparison.

Yeah there are a lot of differences between ECU and UH. ECU has a winning record head to head against UH. ECU won more championships in C-USA in the many years shared there between the 2 schools, ECU consistently averages many more fans in attendance, ECU actually beats its in state P5 rivals consistently and actually has the potential to be THE premiere football school of its state (not as big of a state as Texas (#9) but a state that's projected to grow into the top 5 nationally within the next decade). A school and fan base that supports its program through thick and thin in good times as well as bad. But who's comparing?

Not interested in the pissing contest.

(08-15-2016 10:26 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(08-15-2016 06:17 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(08-15-2016 05:52 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  They should out all three programs plus Connecticut and be done with it. They would not regret it.

If they can get past BYU's issues and Houston can muster enough votes, I think it will be those 3 + Memphis. But right now, I think waffling on BYU and UH is what is causing the delay.

Still clinging to the delusion that Memphis is getting invited to the Big 12 I see.

I will be happy to make a sig bet with you about Memphis and UConn getting into the Big 12 this time around.

I have no problem with byu running their institution the way they want but I feel that it gives fox a way to exclude them from this business situation. I don't think fox wants or need Houston now either(no offense coogs), this is fox's only chance to get into some of the most valuable eastern markets but I do think they're going to most definitely try to improve the pac12's network by having them scoop up Houston and someone else.

(08-15-2016 10:58 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(08-15-2016 10:48 PM)Indiana Bones Wrote:  

(08-15-2016 07:52 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(08-15-2016 07:51 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(08-15-2016 07:03 PM)ArQ Wrote:  But Houston is East Carolina of North Carolina.

Except Houston has FAR more history than East Carolina. Houston with 5 major bowl games, to none for ECU.

I'm a huge ECU fan, but the differences don't stop there.

That was a bizarre comparison.

Yeah there are a lot of differences between ECU and UH. ECU has a winning record head to head against UH. ECU won more championships in C-USA in the many years shared there between the 2 schools, ECU consistently averages many more fans in attendance, ECU actually beats its in state P5 rivals consistently and actually has the potential to be THE premiere football school of its state (not as big of a state as Texas (#9) but a state that's projected to grow into the top 5 nationally within the next decade). A school and fan base that supports its program through thick and thin in good times as well as bad. But who's comparing?

Not interested in the pissing contest.

(08-15-2016 11:17 PM)Indiana Bones Wrote:  

(08-15-2016 10:58 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(08-15-2016 10:48 PM)Indiana Bones Wrote:  

(08-15-2016 07:52 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(08-15-2016 07:51 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Except Houston has FAR more history than East Carolina. Houston with 5 major bowl games, to none for ECU.

I'm a huge ECU fan, but the differences don't stop there.

That was a bizarre comparison.

Yeah there are a lot of differences between ECU and UH. ECU has a winning record head to head against UH. ECU won more championships in C-USA in the many years shared there between the 2 schools, ECU consistently averages many more fans in attendance, ECU actually beats its in state P5 rivals consistently and actually has the potential to be THE premiere football school of its state (not as big of a state as Texas (#9) but a state that's projected to grow into the top 5 nationally within the next decade). A school and fan base that supports its program through thick and thin in good times as well as bad. But who's comparing?

Not interested in the pissing contest.

lol

Like I said, I'm an ECU fan. If the SEC or ACC were expanding, I would be all for their candidacy (for whatever that's worth), but I just don't see enough similarities to label us the ECU of Texas. Not that 1 if superior to the other, we're just different.

If anyone is the ECU of Texas, it's Texas Tech. Similar markets, coaching connections, same offense, one was led by a Pirate, the other are the Pirates.

(08-15-2016 10:18 PM)Tigersmoke3 Wrote:  Anyone who thinks that byu's religious issues towards women and lbgt community are petty has to really be a homer. Why would anyone institution (financial or educational) want to add that dynamic into an already unstable situation? Byu is just not that important especially a network like fox that has their sights set eastward. I think people aren't understanding this is really a hostile Takeover bid by fox. The delay that everyone thinks is dysfunction on the big12's part is probably more so a huge corporate battle over eastern marketshares and contracts.

Astute observation.

.

I personally don't think temple's out of it. What if fox offers a network for say- Memphis, Cincy, Temple, Uconn, and the two Florida schools? Wouldn't that give the big12 the absolute largest footprint that fox could ram down cables gut for great carriage fees while allowing the Texahoma teams to stay together in one division for rivalries. They could start a network without texas. They would then grab Houston through the pac12 to aid their network.

(08-16-2016 12:01 AM)Tigersmoke3 Wrote:  I personally don't think temple's out of it. What if fox offers a network for say- Memphis, Cincy, Temple, Uconn, and the two Florida schools? Wouldn't that give the big12 the absolute largest footprint that fox could ram down cables gut for great carriage fees while allowing the Texahoma teams to stay together in one division for rivalries. They could start a network without texas. They would then grab Houston through the pac12 to aid their network.

I think the whole problem is that the Big 12 does not have a strategic vision. If it were about maximizing media opportunity, then the six you mention make absolute sense. But I think they are being stuck in the traditional view of adding schools that 'trip the glamour meter' with fans, columnists, etc...

Only BYU does that IMHO, but they may get left out of the whole thing as the Texas-OU-media partners compromise plays out.


.

1. Minimum academic profile
Nationally ranked or does it matter

2. Facilities
Forty thousand for football is probably the minimum

3. Distance from a current member matters
Bonus points for being contiguous.

4.Market which doesn't mean the town but the state.

5. Football success

6. Basketball success

Finding a fourth school its impossible to check all the boxes.
The interesting part is what qualifier will they look past.
Geography for U Conn or UCF or something else for another school.

Some of the markets (cities) I named have more people than a lot of states so that's really just an outdated elitist way of feeling superior. I'm sure the networks understand that from a business point of view more than some stuck in nostalgia fans. Hack it's the networks tearing up all the old rivalries to begin with.

(08-15-2016 10:48 PM)Indiana Bones Wrote:  

(08-15-2016 07:52 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(08-15-2016 07:51 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(08-15-2016 07:03 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(08-15-2016 03:37 PM)Kronke Wrote:  Because Texas is massive and has more people in it than Ohio, Tennessee, Colorado, Utah, Connecticut, and Idaho combined. The Big 12 is losing the Houston market to the SEC. If the Big 12 passes on UH and another P5 takes us at a later date, they will forever become third fiddle in the soon to be third largest city in the country, a city they supposedly "own".

The ACC also has 8 schools in a smaller footprint than that of the 5 potential Texas schools.

That whole argument is nonsense. You basically want to punish a deserving school for something as arbitrary as where the state lines were drawn. Perhaps if it makes you feel better, you can pretend that Houston is in Louisiana, Lubbock is in New Mexico, and Fort Worth is in Oklahoma.

But Houston is East Carolina of North Carolina.

Except Houston has FAR more history than East Carolina. Houston with 5 major bowl games, to none for ECU.

I'm a huge ECU fan, but the differences don't stop there.

That was a bizarre comparison.

Yeah there are a lot of differences between ECU and UH. ECU has a winning record head to head against UH. ECU won more championships in C-USA in the many years shared there between the 2 schools, ECU consistently averages many more fans in attendance, ECU actually beats its in state P5 rivals consistently and actually has the potential to be THE premiere football school of its state (not as big of a state as Texas (#9) but a state that's projected to grow into the top 5 nationally within the next decade). A school and fan base that supports its program through thick and thin in good times as well as bad. But who's comparing?

And ECU is always the last one picked to join the team. Despite their fan base, CUSA, BE and AAC were always reluctant to add them.

(08-16-2016 02:26 AM)fishpro1098 Wrote:  

(08-16-2016 12:01 AM)Tigersmoke3 Wrote:  I personally don't think temple's out of it. What if fox offers a network for say- Memphis, Cincy, Temple, Uconn, and the two Florida schools? Wouldn't that give the big12 the absolute largest footprint that fox could ram down cables gut for great carriage fees while allowing the Texahoma teams to stay together in one division for rivalries. They could start a network without texas. They would then grab Houston through the pac12 to aid their network.

I think the whole problem is that the Big 12 does not have a strategic vision. If it were about maximizing media opportunity, then the six you mention make absolute sense. But I think they are being stuck in the traditional view of adding schools that 'trip the glamour meter' with fans, columnists, etc...

Only BYU does that IMHO, but they may get left out of the whole thing as the Texas-OU-media partners compromise plays out.


.

Markets are meaningless if the team doesn't carry it.

Television is national, so even if they carry it, it doesn't matter if they don't attract national attention.

Its about TV ratings and fans in the stands when your school plays the new member. So glamour matters. Glamour impacts $$$ which is what this is all about.

(08-15-2016 10:24 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

(08-15-2016 10:18 PM)Tigersmoke3 Wrote:  Anyone who thinks that byu's religious issues towards women and lbgt community are petty has to really be a homer.

And yet Memphis would love to have BYU on their schedule or even share a conference with them. All of a sudden BYU religious beliefs has become an issue. Smoke, you should be the last poster playing the homer card.

I was thinking the same....This guy actually accused someone else of being a homer.

Yes but if the increased footprint population wise is huge enough it would give fox the leverage to force cable TV to add their network through shear numbers. I know I didn't ask to pay for the sec or big10 packages but I'm forced to pay for them anyway be it right or wrong