Some of y'all are going to be very disappointed for putting so much faith into the power of TX politics in this day and age of Internet scrutiny

The days of Bob Bullock and Anne Richards and realignment in secrecy are long gone

(07-23-2016 01:48 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(07-23-2016 01:42 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  Houston looks like a lock, and we already felt UC was a lock.

So now it's down to 13 and 14. Gut says BYU football and UConn

Yeah:
Houston is a lock
Cincy is a lock
BYU: looking very close
UCONN or Memphis best bets for #4
My wildcard consideration is Navy. I don't know if Navy is interested in the Big 12, but they are a good football program, borders WV and loves playing games in Texas. Navy would be very logical IMHO. This sucks for ECU.

Cheers!

Houston is a lock... probably Cincy. However UConn and BYU are a real stretch geographicly and BYU has own tv...and no sunday.... so I don't see it. UConn has nothing in common with Texas schools and so far away.

Memphis...smaller market. Poor academics... poor facilities...not going to happen.

I could see Big 12 stop at 2 more additions.. otherwise the might look to Florida... UCF or USF...

If the internet is this vast, powerful spotlight on the gears cranking within the political mechanisms, then why was the Gov's tweet such a surprise to everyone?

Apart from info gleaned from FOIA requests -- and short of committing felonies by hacking into peoples emails -- the internet is just a giant water cooler discussion.

We (people who talk on the internet) are no more capable of slowing down or preventing the will of those in power than people like us 20-30 years ago who didn't have such "advantages".

Yeah, I also don't get why people are thinking taking four to 14. I think 12 is a good number. Why do they need to take four??

I mean, I do get that expansion fans want more expansion and movement, because that's more fun. But let's be realistic too ...

(07-24-2016 01:09 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Yeah, I also don't get why people are thinking taking four to 14. I think 12 is a good number. Why do they need to take four??

I mean, I do get that expansion fans want more expansion and movement, because that's more fun. But let's be realistic too ...

I think the reason why 4 is so popular is because many think OU and UT are not going to sign the next GOR so it's all about getting the most money as possible. Plus going to 14 puts us at the same level of the other P5 conferences besides the pac. which could force the Pac to expand also.

Sure. That's a good and fine argument.

But on the other hand, a major component of the financial "advantage" of the Big 12 was getting the same CFP and bowl payouts as the other P confs and only having to split it 10 ways instead of 14.

Unless of course -- as has been talked about on here and elsewhere, I'm sure -- you assume that the new members are going to have a partial share and perhaps a protracted ramp-up period to a full share.


If I was the Big 12, looking to become more "normalized" as a P conf, I'd add Houston as required then add BYU and call it a day. Let that stir around for a few years. Reassess as the current GOR comes up for extension.

(07-24-2016 01:03 PM)No Bull Wrote:  

(07-23-2016 01:48 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(07-23-2016 01:42 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  Houston looks like a lock, and we already felt UC was a lock.

So now it's down to 13 and 14. Gut says BYU football and UConn

Yeah:
Houston is a lock
Cincy is a lock
BYU: looking very close
UCONN or Memphis best bets for #4
My wildcard consideration is Navy. I don't know if Navy is interested in the Big 12, but they are a good football program, borders WV and loves playing games in Texas. Navy would be very logical IMHO. This sucks for ECU.

Cheers!

Houston is a lock... probably Cincy. However UConn and BYU are a real stretch geographicly and BYU has own tv...and no sunday.... so I don't see it. UConn has nothing in common with Texas schools and so far away.

Memphis...smaller market. Poor academics... poor facilities...not going to happen.

I could see Big 12 stop at 2 more additions.. otherwise the might look to Florida... UCF or USF...

Heh wut. Sure our market is smaller than someone like Houston or USF, but they also don't even come close to having majority share of their market. Memphis has over 700k fans in our media market (NYT, CA data back this up). Academics are interesting because Memphis demographics make it unlike any other P5 (the ratings are opinion-based also). And come on poor facilities??! The FedEx forum (best basketball arena in the AAC) and the Liberty Bowl (upper tier AAC) aren't even close to "poor". Our basketball facilities are probably unmatched in much of the Big12 and AAC while our football facilities are mostly new or under construction.

(07-24-2016 01:36 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(07-24-2016 01:03 PM)No Bull Wrote:  

(07-23-2016 01:48 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(07-23-2016 01:42 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  Houston looks like a lock, and we already felt UC was a lock.

So now it's down to 13 and 14. Gut says BYU football and UConn

Yeah:
Houston is a lock
Cincy is a lock
BYU: looking very close
UCONN or Memphis best bets for #4
My wildcard consideration is Navy. I don't know if Navy is interested in the Big 12, but they are a good football program, borders WV and loves playing games in Texas. Navy would be very logical IMHO. This sucks for ECU.

Cheers!

Houston is a lock... probably Cincy. However UConn and BYU are a real stretch geographicly and BYU has own tv...and no sunday.... so I don't see it. UConn has nothing in common with Texas schools and so far away.

Memphis...smaller market. Poor academics... poor facilities...not going to happen.

I could see Big 12 stop at 2 more additions.. otherwise the might look to Florida... UCF or USF...

Heh wut. Sure our market is smaller than someone like Houston or USF, but they also don't even come close to having majority share of their market. Memphis has over 700k fans in our media market (NYT, CA data back this up). Academics are interesting because Memphis demographics make it unlike any other P5 (the ratings are opinion-based also). And come on poor facilities??! The FedEx forum (best basketball arena in the AAC) and the Liberty Bowl (upper tier AAC) aren't even close to "poor". Our basketball facilities are probably unmatched in much of the Big12 and AAC while our football facilities are mostly new or under construction.

Facility wise I meant no OCS at Memphis.

(07-24-2016 02:45 PM)No Bull Wrote:  

(07-24-2016 01:36 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(07-24-2016 01:03 PM)No Bull Wrote:  

(07-23-2016 01:48 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(07-23-2016 01:42 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  Houston looks like a lock, and we already felt UC was a lock.

So now it's down to 13 and 14. Gut says BYU football and UConn

Yeah:
Houston is a lock
Cincy is a lock
BYU: looking very close
UCONN or Memphis best bets for #4
My wildcard consideration is Navy. I don't know if Navy is interested in the Big 12, but they are a good football program, borders WV and loves playing games in Texas. Navy would be very logical IMHO. This sucks for ECU.

Cheers!

Houston is a lock... probably Cincy. However UConn and BYU are a real stretch geographicly and BYU has own tv...and no sunday.... so I don't see it. UConn has nothing in common with Texas schools and so far away.

Memphis...smaller market. Poor academics... poor facilities...not going to happen.

I could see Big 12 stop at 2 more additions.. otherwise the might look to Florida... UCF or USF...

Heh wut. Sure our market is smaller than someone like Houston or USF, but they also don't even come close to having majority share of their market. Memphis has over 700k fans in our media market (NYT, CA data back this up). Academics are interesting because Memphis demographics make it unlike any other P5 (the ratings are opinion-based also). And come on poor facilities??! The FedEx forum (best basketball arena in the AAC) and the Liberty Bowl (upper tier AAC) aren't even close to "poor". Our basketball facilities are probably unmatched in much of the Big12 and AAC while our football facilities are mostly new or under construction.

Facility wise I meant no OCS at Memphis.

Well the Liberty Bowl is 2 miles from campus. I'm sure there are OCS stadiums further from campus than that.

Personally I'd be rather happy to see Memphis depart because I think that's a hurdle cleared for Arkansas State to affiliate with Tulsa and SMU but my expectation is Memphis has to be a compromise candidate.

BYU is obviously the most logical choice, Cincinnati works nicely with WVU, the public rattle makes you think Houston is in as well.

That sets up a battle royale to be #14.

Western schools that bridge to BYU or at least pair with BYU will have some appeal plus a second western opens the door for some late evening games, right now Pac-12 owns that space among the P5.

UConn self-generates more revenue than any public G5 and that is a support and commitment level that will carry appeal.

Temple football is emerging from the grave but more importantly for a conference network, they bolster hoops appeal.

UCF and USF I personally think works better as a pair to get more carriage agreements but if the speculation is right (ie. BYU, Cincy, Houston) then they have to be split.

ECU is the most P5 like public left.

Thus I think Memphis probably doesn't pop up as an early front runner but rather a split the baby compromise candidate to finish up.

I just see no way Houston gets in. If they want a tv network in the future, Houston does not help them get into new markets.

BYU, Boise State, Cincinnati, East Carolina, Memphis, UCF and USF are more of a favorites to get in. People say Boise is a small market, but they do get a following on tv from people a cross the country.

(07-24-2016 12:54 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Some of y'all are going to be very disappointed for putting so much faith into the power of TX politics in this day and age of Internet scrutiny

The days of Bob Bullock and Anne Richards and realignment in secrecy are long gone

You may be correct. But given the choice of having Tx politics with us, silent, or worse yet, against us, I'll put in all of my faith and then some. Wouldn't you?

For many of us "have-nots", this could be the last chance in a while. Take every advantage.

IF the B12 expands, Houston is in. Not really much to discuss there.

Only thing UH fans have to worry about are the Todge's of the world who will do whatever it takes to prevent any expansion.

(07-26-2016 12:33 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  IF the B12 expands, Houston is in. Not really much to discuss there.

Only thing UH fans have to worry about are the Todge's of the world who will do whatever it takes to prevent any expansion.

It appears there is a block of three schools. Texas Tech and TCU appear to be in lockstep with Texas. With Baylor's recent troubles, they probably go with Texas delegation. So if Texas wants Houston, it will more than likely happen or there will be no expansion and the B12 will look even more unstable.

If I were a betting man, I think it will be picked by what two schools does Texas want and what two school does OU want. Then all votes will fall in line. We know Texas wants Houston who is Texas second choice and who are OU's top two.

(07-26-2016 11:21 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  ECU is the most P5 like public left.

Not even close. There is only one state with 3 public schools in the P5 -- Texas, with Texas, TAMU and TTU. The following publics are far more P5-like than ECU:

- UConn - State Flagship (largest state without a P5 school)
- UNM - State Flagship (state population larger than Nebraska or West Virginia)
- Cincinnati - Number 2 Public Research University in a state with only one other P5 school (similar in profile in this manner to Pittsburgh, Arizona St., Louisville)
- Colorado St. - Morrill Act Land Grant (similar in profile to Kansas St., Iowa St., Oklahoma St., etc.)
- Nevada - State Flagship and Morrill Act Land Grant (state population larger than Nebraska or West Virginia)
- UNLV - Number 2 Public Research University in its state
- Memphis - Number 2 Public Research University in its state (hurt by presence of private P5 -- Vanderbilt)
- Utah St. - Morrill Act Land Grant (hurt by presence of BYU)

(07-26-2016 12:43 PM)orangefan Wrote:  

(07-26-2016 11:21 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  ECU is the most P5 like public left.

Not even close. There is only one state with 3 public schools in the P5 -- Texas, with Texas, TAMU and TTU. The following publics are far more P5-like than ECU:

- UConn - State Flagship (largest state without a P5 school)
- UNM - State Flagship (state population larger than Nebraska or West Virginia)
- Cincinnati - Number 2 Public Research University in a state with only one other P5 school (similar in profile in this manner to Pittsburgh, Arizona St., Louisville)
- Colorado St. - Morrill Act Land Grant (similar in profile to Kansas St., Iowa St., Oklahoma St., etc.)
- Nevada - State Flagship and Morrill Act Land Grant (state population larger than Nebraska or West Virginia)
- UNLV - Number 2 Public Research University in its state
- Memphis - Number 2 Public Research University in its state
- Utah St. - Morrill Act Land Grant

And this coming from a Wolfpack fan, ECU football and baseball atmosphere is P5 worthy. It actually dwarfs some P5 public schools. As I always have stated, ECU basketball program is it Achilles Heel. That is barely NAIA worthy. That has kept ECU from joining the Big Time. I never figured out why they have never been able to get a decent program. Charlotte, Wilmington, Asheville and NC A&T have far more basketball success and history than does ECU.

Charlotte Season By Season Results
SEASON W-L RESULTS
2005 0-1 Lost to North Carolina State in first round, 75-63
2004 0-1 Lost to Texas Tech in first round, 76-73
2002 0-1 Lost to Notre Dame in first round, 82-63
2001 1-1 Defeated Tennessee in first round, 70-63
Lost to Illinois in second round, 79-61
1999 1-1 Defeated Rhode Island in first round, 81-70
Lost to Oklahoma in second round, 85-72
1998 1-1 Defeated Illinois-Chicago in first round, 77-62
Lost to North Carolina in second round, 93-83
1997 1-1 Defeated Georgetown in first round, 79-67
Lost to Utah in second round, 77-58
1995 0-1 Lost to Stanford in first round, 70-68
1992 0-1 Lost to Iowa State in first round, 76-74
1988 0-1 Lost to Brigham Young in first round, 98-92
1977 3-2 Defeated Central Michigan in second round, 91-86
Defeated Syracuse in regional semifinal, 81-59
Defeated Michigan in regional final, 75-68
Lost to Marquette in National Semifinal, 51-49
Lost to UNLV in third place game, 106-94



North Carolina A&T Season By Season Results
SEASON W-L RESULTS
2013 1-1 Defeated Liberty in opening round, 73-72
Lost to Louisville in first round, 79-48
1995 0-1 Lost to Wake Forest in first round, 79-47
1994 0-1 Lost to Arkansas in first round, 94-79
1988 0-1 Lost to Syracuse in first round, 69-55
1987 0-1 Lost to Alabama in first round, 88-71
1986 0-1 Lost to Kansas in first round, 71-46
1985 0-1 Lost to Oklahoma in first round, 96-83
1984 0-1 Lost to Morehead State in opening round, 70-69
1983 0-1 Lost to Princeton in opening round, 53-41
1982 0-1 Lost to West Virginia in first round, 102-72

North Carolina-Wilmington Season By Season Results
SEASON W-L RESULTS
2016 0-1 Lost to Duke in first round, 93-85
2006 0-1 Lost to George Washington in first round, 88-85
2003 0-1 Lost to Maryland in first round, 75-73
2002 1-1 Defeated USC in first round, 93-89
Lost to Indiana in second round, 76-67
2000 0-1 Lost to Cincinnati in first round, 64-4

North Carolina-Asheville Season By Season Results
SEASON W-L RESULTS
2016 0-1 Lost to Villanova in first round, 86-56
2012 0-1 Lost to Syracuse in first round, 72-65
2011 1-1 Defeated Arkansas-Little Rock in opening round, 81-77
Lost to Pittsburgh in first round, 74-51
2003 1-1 Defeated Texas Southern in opening round, 92-84
Lost to Texas in first round, 82-61

East Carolina Season By Season Results
SEASON W-L RESULTS
1993 0-1 Lost to North Carolina in first round, 85-65
1972 0-1 Lost to Villanova in second round, 85-70

Now Gordon Gee gets in the act and he seems to be less than enthused about adding another Texas school:

Clarifying Fenves' remarks: "I think what [Fenves] indicated, though, is he wouldn’t be opposed.”

“I think we certainly should have a national base, absolutely,” said the WVU president. “But we also have to recognize there are some wonderful institutions in Texas. We have four now in the conference and I think we will consider that as part of the overall package we are putting together.”


http://www.wvgazettemail.com/article/201.../160729695

That is two non-Texas presidents that have thrown a wet blanket on the UH love now.

(07-26-2016 01:08 PM)KUGR Wrote:  Now Gordon Gee gets in the act and he seems to be less than enthused about adding another Texas school:

Clarifying Fenves' remarks: "I think what [Fenves] indicated, though, is he wouldn’t be opposed.”

“I think we certainly should have a national base, absolutely,” said the WVU president. “But we also have to recognize there are some wonderful institutions in Texas. We have four now in the conference and I think we will consider that as part of the overall package we are putting together.”


http://www.wvgazettemail.com/article/201.../160729695

That is two non-Texas presidents that have thrown a wet blanket on the UH love now.

It may be posturing to give him some leverage to get his top picks as part of the package. He sure as heck doesn't want an expansion that doesn't include Cincinnati and hopefully one more in WVU's neighborhood. Adding BYU and UH only would be tough to take.

(07-26-2016 12:43 PM)orangefan Wrote:  

(07-26-2016 11:21 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  ECU is the most P5 like public left.

Not even close. There is only one state with 3 public schools in the P5 -- Texas, with Texas, TAMU and TTU. The following publics are far more P5-like than ECU:

- UConn - State Flagship (largest state without a P5 school)
- UNM - State Flagship (state population larger than Nebraska or West Virginia)
- Cincinnati - Number 2 Public Research University in a state with only one other P5 school (similar in profile in this manner to Pittsburgh, Arizona St., Louisville)
- Colorado St. - Morrill Act Land Grant (similar in profile to Kansas St., Iowa St., Oklahoma St., etc.)
- Nevada - State Flagship and Morrill Act Land Grant (state population larger than Nebraska or West Virginia)
- UNLV - Number 2 Public Research University in its state
- Memphis - Number 2 Public Research University in its state (hurt by presence of private P5 -- Vanderbilt)
- Utah St. - Morrill Act Land Grant (hurt by presence of BYU)

To quote John McEnroe, "You can't be serious!"

New Mexico, Colorado State, Nevada, UNLV and Utah State don't belong in this group at all. UConn has been playing FBS football for how long - about 10 years more or less? Memphis is one of the flavors of the day because they had a great QB the last two years. In the 19 seasons before that, they were an unimpressive 81-143. They make the list of "P5-like", but they aren't significantly ahead of anybody on that list. Cincinnati belongs on the list, as do Houston and BYU.

Well no offense to WV, but they were thrown a life preserver by the B12. Relative to they SWC and the Big 8, they're outsiders. Both figuratively and literally.

So, what they want should have the least importance for the conference. What are they going to do about it, leave??