(07-24-2016 12:55 AM)KUGR Wrote:  

(07-23-2016 11:41 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(07-23-2016 09:39 PM)KUGR Wrote:  

(07-23-2016 01:40 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Looks like the dominoes are falling the right way for the Coogs. First UT, and now Tech.

I think you are reading way too much into these tweets that say they are open to "CONSIDERATION" of UH. There are a couple sources that indicated this last move by UH has been out of desperation. Bowlsby and several of the B12 presidents don't want to add another Texas school and UH has been told as much. UH knew there wasn't much time left in this process so they solicited the help of the governor and other high profile people in Texas for help (this is was also why the meaningless meeting with the Pac commissioner came out from UH sources on Monday). In reality, the governor has zero influence on 8 of the 10 B12 schools (6 schools out of Texas and the 2 privates in Texas....BU and TCU). He can't even force TT and UT.....but only threaten funding, etc.

The UT and TT tweets were nothing more than to protect themselves down the road from backlash in the state from high profile UH supporters. When UH doesn't get it in they can point back to their public statements and say "It wasn't our fault because we tried". I don't think UT and TT wouldblock UH....but I will also say support for is lukewarm, at best. If they really thought UH was getting into the B12 they would have no need to cover their butts. The process would take care of itself and they would come out smelling like roses to the UH high profile supporters. And let's be honest. The B12 has dang good idea on who they will add. They've been talking about it for nearly 2 years....or maybe longer. This process now is just a formality.

If it's a 2 school add it will be UC and BYU. If 4 schools then UH has shot (the state of Texas influence is watered down in a 14 school league so some presidents who may be concerned by it may give it a pass). But UCONN, CSU, and UCF would have chances in that scenario, too. Memphis would be a longshot because of academics.

You have a lot to say and probably get good grades at BYU....BUT MAYBE, I'm just a little more familiar with how politics and college athletics work in the state of Texas than you are young man. We shall see.
Cheers!

That's the thing. This will be largely decided by those OUTSIDE of Texas. If you think University presidents outside of Texas are going to be strong-armed by the Texas governor or other politicians you are going to be one disappointed guy. Baylor and TCU can't even be strong-armed by him because they are private institutions.

I will ask you these questions....First, why the power play by government officials if UH is getting in? They were asked by UH officials to do it because UH knows what is happening. It's pulling out ALL the stops. It's why the meaningless Pac rumor came out....and it's why politicians are doing what they are doing now. It's complete desperation.

Second, why make statements of support for "consideration" if you were UT or TT if you knew UH already was coming in? No need to do it. They would be coming in and life would be great. UT and TT are ok with it.....but by no means are going to force the issue because they can't. It's to save face for an eventuality that appears very likely and they know it. The B12 knows the schools they want. This is a formality now.

My source indicated he would be "shocked" if UH was involved in a 2 team expansion model. Four teams could change the dynamic and may make it more "palatable" to several schools that are staunchly against another Texas school (ISU president wasn't making a joke when he said "several presidents" were against Texas expansion). The thing is the power player by Texas' governor will likely only increase the resolve of those schools to say "no" in a 2 team model because "this is exactly what we are talking about" with regard to the state of Texas and it's heavy influence on the B12.

UH will NOT be involved in a 2 team expansion model. You will see in time.

Here is what you don't get. Texas controls 4 votes. Texas can shut down expansion with those 4 votes. You are correct when you say the governor of Texas can't get UH into the Big12---but he CAN use his leverage to stop anyone else from getting into the Big12. Thus, my guess is that some kind of deal will be made. You let my pick in and I'll let your pick in. Maybe it takes 4 getting in to satisfy enough parties to make the deal work. We will just have to wait and see how it plays out.

(07-23-2016 09:39 PM)KUGR Wrote:  

(07-23-2016 01:40 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Looks like the dominoes are falling the right way for the Coogs. First UT, and now Tech.

I think you are reading way too much into these tweets that say they are open to "CONSIDERATION" of UH. There are a couple sources that indicated this last move by UH has been out of desperation. Bowlsby and several of the B12 presidents don't want to add another Texas school and UH has been told as much. UH knew there wasn't much time left in this process so they solicited the help of the governor and other high profile people in Texas for help (this is was also why the meaningless meeting with the Pac commissioner came out from UH sources on Monday). In reality, the governor has zero influence on 8 of the 10 B12 schools (6 schools out of Texas and the 2 privates in Texas....BU and TCU). He can't even force TT and UT.....but only threaten funding, etc.

The UT and TT tweets were nothing more than to protect themselves down the road from backlash in the state from high profile UH supporters. When UH doesn't get it in they can point back to their public statements and say "It wasn't our fault because we tried". I don't think UT and TT would block UH....but I will also say support for is lukewarm, at best. If they really thought UH was getting into the B12 they would have no need to cover their butts. The process would take care of itself and they would come out smelling like roses to the UH high profile supporters. And let's be honest. The B12 has dang good idea on who they will add. They've been talking about it for nearly 2 years....or maybe longer. This process now is just a formality.

If it's a 2 school add it will be UC and BYU. If 4 schools then UH has shot (the state of Texas influence is watered down in a 14 school league so some presidents who may be concerned by it may give it a pass). But UCONN, CSU, and UCF would have chances in that scenario, too. Memphis would be a longshot because of academics.

Spin. Spin. Spin. have no idea about what you're talking about it. Texas runs this league what Texas wants Texas gets simple as that. Everyone else will fall in line after a bunch of muttering be it 2 or 4 members they decide on. Besides UH to the B12 it part of the Governors master plan to have more world class universities in Texas one of his campaign promises he made was to help UH become a great university as far as he is concerned it starts with UH being in the B12 that's why he said UH not in the B12 is a non starter.

(07-23-2016 04:32 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(07-23-2016 04:23 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(07-23-2016 01:53 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(07-23-2016 01:49 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(07-23-2016 01:40 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Looks like the dominoes are falling the right way for the Coogs. First UT, and now Tech. I'm not even counting the support from the big 12 coaches. I bet they get picked up in the next week...who does AAC replace them with? I hope Rice.

Cheers!

I personally don't get the Rice love, but to each their own

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

Rice takes over for the Coogs in the Houston market. I know, I know Rice doesn't carry the Houston market. Neither did the Coogs. At least the AAC is still in Houston and Rice is a phenomenal school with history. It's a better add than Marshall, Charlotte, WKU and others being tossed around.

cheers!

SMU, Tulane, and Tulsa will all vote for Rice. Navy will support it without an official vote. UTEP will look to the MWC.

How do you know that? Why not add UTSA then and get a school who could actually be good? Also the northern schools would want more northern schools and not a new SWC. After Cincy, Houston and Mempjis leave UConn is the biggest name left and they better do whatever will keep the Huskies happy or they are easily out of the top ten in basketball. Rice brings zero value to the TV contract and does nothing to help get the FB side beefed up to win the access bowl slot. This isn't the Big XII, the state of Texas doesn't rule this conference..

Rice has been to bowls games and competed for conference titles recently. If you don't think those peer institutions would vote for them then you must not understand university presidents.

The big-12 needs to consider carefully before it allows a 5 team Texas voting block. They could band together and and throw their votes behind any conference matter that suits them. With the political clout of UT in the state of Texas, it doesn't take much imagination to guess whose lead they would be following.

(07-23-2016 10:45 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-23-2016 09:39 PM)KUGR Wrote:  

(07-23-2016 01:40 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Looks like the dominoes are falling the right way for the Coogs. First UT, and now Tech.

I think you are reading way too much into these tweets that say they are open to "CONSIDERATION" of UH.

In reality, the governor has zero influence on 8 of the 10 B12 schools (6 schools out of Texas and the 2 privates in Texas....BU and TCU). He can't even force TT and UT.....but only threaten funding, etc.

The UT and TT tweets were nothing more than to protect themselves down the road from backlash in the state from high profile UH supporters. When UH doesn't get it in they can point back to their public statements and say "It wasn't our fault because we tried".

More wishful thinking by BYU fans. You shouldn't wish for UH to fail. That means nobody gets in.

The presidents of Texas universities don't ignore the governors on matters that are not critical to their university (former President Powers fought Gov. Perry when he wanted to turn UT into a 100k student community college). And they don't play cute games with the governors. They didn't get to be university presidents by being politically stone deaf. UT and TT have gotten clear orders that they don't vote for anybody else unless UH gets in.

Now that's only 2 votes and it takes 3 to stop, but Baylor and TCU will get substantial pressure as well.

The odds of anyone getting admitted without UH are very, very, very small.

Right on, Bullet. Here's what I wrote yesterday. Sounds like you agree.

(07-24-2016 01:21 AM)KUGR Wrote:  

(07-24-2016 01:02 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-24-2016 12:55 AM)KUGR Wrote:  

(07-23-2016 11:41 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(07-23-2016 09:39 PM)KUGR Wrote:  I think you are reading way too much into these tweets that say they are open to "CONSIDERATION" of UH. There are a couple sources that indicated this last move by UH has been out of desperation. Bowlsby and several of the B12 presidents don't want to add another Texas school and UH has been told as much. UH knew there wasn't much time left in this process so they solicited the help of the governor and other high profile people in Texas for help (this is was also why the meaningless meeting with the Pac commissioner came out from UH sources on Monday). In reality, the governor has zero influence on 8 of the 10 B12 schools (6 schools out of Texas and the 2 privates in Texas....BU and TCU). He can't even force TT and UT.....but only threaten funding, etc.

The UT and TT tweets were nothing more than to protect themselves down the road from backlash in the state from high profile UH supporters. When UH doesn't get it in they can point back to their public statements and say "It wasn't our fault because we tried". I don't think UT and TT wouldblock UH....but I will also say support for is lukewarm, at best. If they really thought UH was getting into the B12 they would have no need to cover their butts. The process would take care of itself and they would come out smelling like roses to the UH high profile supporters. And let's be honest. The B12 has dang good idea on who they will add. They've been talking about it for nearly 2 years....or maybe longer. This process now is just a formality.

If it's a 2 school add it will be UC and BYU. If 4 schools then UH has shot (the state of Texas influence is watered down in a 14 school league so some presidents who may be concerned by it may give it a pass). But UCONN, CSU, and UCF would have chances in that scenario, too. Memphis would be a longshot because of academics.

You have a lot to say and probably get good grades at BYU....BUT MAYBE, I'm just a little more familiar with how politics and college athletics work in the state of Texas than you are young man. We shall see.
Cheers!

That's the thing. This will be largely decided by those OUTSIDE of Texas. If you think University presidents outside of Texas are going to be strong-armed by the Texas governor or other politicians you are going to be one disappointed guy. Baylor and TCU can't even be strong-armed by him because they are private institutions.

I will ask you these questions....First, why the power play by government officials if UH is getting in? They were asked by UH officials to do it because UH knows what is happening. It's pulling out ALL the stops. It's why the meaningless Pac rumor came out....and it's why politicians are doing what they are doing now. It's complete desperation.

Second, why make statements of support for "consideration" if you were UT or TT if you knew UH already was coming in? No need to do it. They would be coming in and life would be great. UT and TT are ok with it.....but by no means are going to force the issue because they can't. It's to save face for an eventuality that appears very likely and they know it. The B12 knows the schools they want. This is a formality now.

My source indicated he would be "shocked" if UH was involved in a 2 team expansion model. Four teams could change the dynamic and may make it more "palatable" to several schools that are staunchly against another Texas school (ISU president wasn't making a joke when he said "several presidents" were against Texas expansion). The thing is the power player by Texas' governor will likely only increase the resolve of those schools to say "no" in a 2 team model because "this is exactly what we are talking about" with regard to the state of Texas and it's heavy influence on the B12.

UH will NOT be involved in a 2 team expansion model. You will see in time.

Here is what you don't get. Texas controls 4 votes. Texas can shut down expansion with those 4 votes. You are correct when you say the governor of Texas can't get UH into the Big12---but he CAN use his leverage to stop anyone else from getting into the Big12. Thus, my guess is that some kind of deal will be made. You let my pick in and I'll let your pick in. Maybe it takes 4 getting in to satisfy enough parties to make the deal work. We will just have to wait and see how it plays out.

A couple things. First, you are suggesting Texas is adamant about expansion having to involve UH. That is not their position. If that was their position and that's why expansion got moving this last 3 days of tweets and power plays are all for naught. Texas is OPEN to UH and hence their tweets about being ok with "consideration". Secondly Texas controls 2 votes. TCU and Baylor USUALLY do side with Texas....but they can't be forced to. This is especially the case if they feel that their recruiting will suffer because of UH. A deal may eventually be struck that gets UH into the league with an expansion with 4 teams. I've acknowledged that the presidents against it may be more likely to go with it in that scenario. UH won't be included in a 2 team model, however.

I agree that UH wouldn't be included in a 2-team model, but neither would BYU, lol. It's moot, regardless, b/c they intend to add 4.

BYU is most likely coming in as football only.

BTW, I agree with the Houston fans that, although there may be enough non-Texas votes to block them, Texas can gather enough votes to block everybody. But I also say b/c of all the infighting on this, it's not a slam dunk, either way.

What I think is up is that UM and UC are in, BYU is in as FB only, and the 4th spot is up for grabs between Boise as FB only, or Houston as all sports. JMO.

(07-24-2016 02:20 AM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  

(07-23-2016 09:39 PM)KUGR Wrote:  

(07-23-2016 01:40 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Looks like the dominoes are falling the right way for the Coogs. First UT, and now Tech.

I think you are reading way too much into these tweets that say they are open to "CONSIDERATION" of UH. There are a couple sources that indicated this last move by UH has been out of desperation. Bowlsby and several of the B12 presidents don't want to add another Texas school and UH has been told as much. UH knew there wasn't much time left in this process so they solicited the help of the governor and other high profile people in Texas for help (this is was also why the meaningless meeting with the Pac commissioner came out from UH sources on Monday). In reality, the governor has zero influence on 8 of the 10 B12 schools (6 schools out of Texas and the 2 privates in Texas....BU and TCU). He can't even force TT and UT.....but only threaten funding, etc.

The UT and TT tweets were nothing more than to protect themselves down the road from backlash in the state from high profile UH supporters. When UH doesn't get it in they can point back to their public statements and say "It wasn't our fault because we tried". I don't think UT and TT would block UH....but I will also say support for is lukewarm, at best. If they really thought UH was getting into the B12 they would have no need to cover their butts. The process would take care of itself and they would come out smelling like roses to the UH high profile supporters. And let's be honest. The B12 has dang good idea on who they will add. They've been talking about it for nearly 2 years....or maybe longer. This process now is just a formality.

If it's a 2 school add it will be UC and BYU. If 4 schools then UH has shot (the state of Texas influence is watered down in a 14 school league so some presidents who may be concerned by it may give it a pass). But UCONN, CSU, and UCF would have chances in that scenario, too. Memphis would be a longshot because of academics.

Spin. Spin. Spin. have no idea about what you're talking about it. Texas runs this league what Texas wants Texas gets simple as that. Everyone else will fall in line after a bunch of muttering be it 2 or 4 members they decide on. Besides UH to the B12 it part of the Governors master plan to have more world class universities in Texas one of his campaign promises he made was to help UH become a great university as far as he is concerned it starts with UH being in the B12 that's why he said UH not in the B12 is a non starter.

This is not how it works.

Tillman was a big donor to Greg Abotts campaign and he is now calling in a favor for it.

Abott can only ask UT and TTU to vote for UH (governor has no actual political power) and for those two who both want favors from the government right now (UT-H and a Tech Vet school) its completely in their interest to comply so they don't lose their pet project to politics or take any flak in the paper for not supporting UH.

But that is two votes.

The state has ZERO control over BU or TCU. There is NOTHING any state agency can do to threaten them like they can UT and TTU.

Add to that heavy opposition from OSU and ISU and there is little chance UH gets in and UT and TTU know it. All they have to do is point to their tweets and say "hey we tried"

Again, what the governor of Texas wants or has plans for is irrelevant to the Big 12. The state of Texas does not own or run the Big 12 no matter how prevalent that attitude is in Austin

(07-24-2016 08:02 AM)TripleA Wrote:  BTW, I agree with the Houston fans that, although there may be enough non-Texas votes to block them, Texas can gather enough votes to block everybody. But I also say b/c of all the infighting on this, it's not a slam dunk, either way.

What I think is up is that UM and UC are in, BYU is in as FB only, and the 4th spot is up for grabs between Boise as FB only, or Houston as all sports. JMO.

I doubt Memphis will make it. Poor academics.

Interesting to read people desperately parroting sentiments like "the Texas state government can't control the Big 12!!!".


The following is an etched in stone, dyed in the wool, entrenched, confirmed, established, unquestionable, undeniable, unbreakable FACT:

Only one of two things can happen now -- either Houston will be invited to the Big 12, or the Big 12 won't expand.


Nothing outside of that can even be discussed.

(07-24-2016 09:28 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Interesting to read people desperately parroting sentiments like "the Texas state government can't control the Big 12!!!".


The following is an etched in stone, dyed in the wool, entrenched, confirmed, established, unquestionable, undeniable, unbreakable FACT:

Only one of two things can happen now -- either Houston will be invited to the Big 12, or the Big 12 won't expand.


Nothing outside of that can even be discussed.

And how do you come to this conclusion?

Two votes is neither enough to get UH into the conference or to block expansion either.

I'd love to hear how you think it can be otherwise.

(07-24-2016 08:32 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  The state has ZERO control over BU or TCU. There is NOTHING any state agency can do to threaten them

Incorrect.

It's not near the degree UT/Tech, but it's not nothing either.

(07-24-2016 08:45 AM)westwolf Wrote:  

(07-24-2016 08:02 AM)TripleA Wrote:  BTW, I agree with the Houston fans that, although there may be enough non-Texas votes to block them, Texas can gather enough votes to block everybody. But I also say b/c of all the infighting on this, it's not a slam dunk, either way.

What I think is up is that UM and UC are in, BYU is in as FB only, and the 4th spot is up for grabs between Boise as FB only, or Houston as all sports. JMO.

I doubt Memphis will make it. Poor academics.

That is way overplayed, and our academics are fairly easily defended, at least to the point of justifying an invitation. WVU got in. Louisville got in. Our academics are in that range.

(07-24-2016 11:11 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(07-24-2016 08:45 AM)westwolf Wrote:  

(07-24-2016 08:02 AM)TripleA Wrote:  BTW, I agree with the Houston fans that, although there may be enough non-Texas votes to block them, Texas can gather enough votes to block everybody. But I also say b/c of all the infighting on this, it's not a slam dunk, either way.

What I think is up is that UM and UC are in, BYU is in as FB only, and the 4th spot is up for grabs between Boise as FB only, or Houston as all sports. JMO.

I doubt Memphis will make it. Poor academics.

That is way overplayed, and our academics are fairly easily defended, at least to the point of justifying an invitation. WVU got in. Louisville got in. Our academics are in that range.

TCU got in. Very good undergraduate program, but weak research and Ph.D. production.

(07-23-2016 01:42 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  Houston looks like a lock, and we already felt UC was a lock.

So now it's down to 13 and 14. Gut says BYU football and UConn

Wouldn't it make far more sense for BYU and Boise football only. Have Houston and Cinci full members. 12 team basketball tournaments work far easier the 11.

(07-24-2016 10:32 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(07-24-2016 08:32 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  The state has ZERO control over BU or TCU. There is NOTHING any state agency can do to threaten them

Incorrect.

It's not near the degree UT/Tech, but it's not nothing either.

Universities need favors. They need cooperation. They can benefit from access to state programs. There is definite influence.

(07-24-2016 11:15 AM)UTArlingtonMaverick Wrote:  

(07-24-2016 11:11 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(07-24-2016 08:45 AM)westwolf Wrote:  

(07-24-2016 08:02 AM)TripleA Wrote:  BTW, I agree with the Houston fans that, although there may be enough non-Texas votes to block them, Texas can gather enough votes to block everybody. But I also say b/c of all the infighting on this, it's not a slam dunk, either way.

What I think is up is that UM and UC are in, BYU is in as FB only, and the 4th spot is up for grabs between Boise as FB only, or Houston as all sports. JMO.

I doubt Memphis will make it. Poor academics.

That is way overplayed, and our academics are fairly easily defended, at least to the point of justifying an invitation. WVU got in. Louisville got in. Our academics are in that range.

TCU got in. Very good undergraduate program, but weak research and Ph.D. production.

The undergraduate offsets the weak research. Like with Notre Dame. Noone would say Notre Dame is a weak institution, but if you look at ratings that emphasize research and graduate programs, they are way down the list.

Memphis is "in that range," but below that range. They would be the only P5 not in USNWR top 200. If Memphis was as far ahead of everyone as BYU is compared to the other options, that would be overcome. But when everybody is comparable, its a killer.

But it's not enough influence to force the issue either. Neither TCU or BU benefit at all from UH and the state cannot force them to act against their best interest like they can with UT and TTU where they have the ultimate cudgel of funding to hold over their heads

Well put bullet.

It has nothing to do with forcing or exerting authority over the schools.

It has everything to do with money, influence and favors. That's the very fabric of politics. TCU and Baylor are no more immune from that type of influence than any Texas public university.

(07-24-2016 11:54 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  But it's not enough influence to force the issue either. Neither TCU or BU benefit at all from UH and the state cannot force them to act against their best interest like they can with UT and TTU where they have the ultimate cudgel of funding to hold over their heads

Private Universities don't operate in a vacuum. If it wasn't for UT, TCU would not be in the B12 now. They can call in a favor if they wish. It's called influence, TCU/Baylor may need some favor in the future from UT. if I read an article where the former Chancellor/President of Baylor said he was not opposed to UH being in the B12, he's gone now, so where they are no one knows. But I suspect the new leadership will have the same attitude, especially with the challenges they are going to with face with the rape lawsuits. They need as much goodwill they as they can generate.