(03-11-2016 05:15 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-11-2016 04:53 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-11-2016 04:24 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-11-2016 02:15 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(03-11-2016 12:36 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  Kap,

Its not even worth it to make sense with some of these guys. All he proof in the world cant change an opinion if one is too stubborn to see it. I'm slowly coming around to your concept of unicorns and rainbows.

I looked at the websites again to see what kind of "exposure" the Big East is getting (from top to bottom for each):

NYT: article about Northern Iowa (MVC exposure!), obit for Clyde Lovellette (which I guess counts as Big 12 exposure), article about the proposed Ivy League tournament (IVY exposure!), article about Monmouth basketball (MAAC exposure!), article about sexual misconduct at Yale (more IVY exposure!), and finally in a tiny font an article about Seton Hall beating Providence or Creighton or some-such (finally some Big East exposure!).

NYP: article about Wally Szczerbiak's thoughts on the NCAA tournament (MAC exposure!), column about Villanova player Ryan Arcidiacono (more Big East Exposure!), two articles about Seton Hall -- one on a win over Creighton and one on how well they're recruiting vs St. Johns (more Big East exposure!)

NYDN: Way at the bottom of the page, two articles about Seton Hall and Providence advancing (Big East exposure!), one about the proposed Ivy League tournament and one about whatever sexual misconduct allegedly happened at Yale (Ivy League exposure!)

Any arguments at all that holding the tourney in NYC would increase "exposure" that would somehow benefit the ACC would be welcome. All I'm getting is stuff along the lines of "it goes without saying," or "MSG has to be experienced."

That's still a lot more BE exposure in those NYC papers than what the ACC tourney got in those same papers.

1)Having the ACC and its teams lit up in Times Square= Exposure

2)Having local NYC tv news/sports stations covering the tourney= Exposure (how many go to Greensboro to cover the tourney)

3)Having the ACC tourney covered in NYC area newspapers and websites =Exposure

As Terry mentioned, NYC has a metro area of about 20 million people.
The 3 newspapers that Kaplony linked have a daily circulation of over 3 million.

The reason that you keep getting comments on the line of "it goes without saying," is because everyone else is intelligent enough to understand the concept of more exposure by having the tourney in NYC. Some exposure in NYC is better than having any exposure in lil ole Greensboro.

You and your kind can re-build the Big East and get your NYC exposure if you want. We have done well since we invented the conference championship tournament 1953 and are comfortable where we are. We have agreed to move the Tournament to New York as a trial, lets just wait a couple of years to see how it works before you start telling us how to run a conference or conduct a championship!

Me and my kind don't have to, as the ACC will be in NYC on a regular basis. Not every year, but on a regular basis. Just watch. And if you were comfortable where you are, you wouldn't be trying other sites.
Your biggest problem is tobacco road doesn't run things like they used to. That scares you to death, doesn't it.

We're giving NYC a good chance for the next two years, just like we gave Tampa a chance a few years back. Tampa didn't really work out from what I understand (I didn't go myself -- did you go XLance?). I have my doubts about NYC, but if it goes well, I expect it would join the rotation with Charlotte, Atlanta and DC as occasional alternate sites to Greensboro. Maybe they'll look at Orlando, Philly, Chicago and Boston too.

Greensboro Coliseum is as close to the geographic center of the conference as you can get, and I think what a lot of people who advocate for other sites don't realize is that in terms of seating capacity it is the largest independent basketball venue on the eastern seaboard by far. Every time the ACC holds the Tournament somewhere else (I understand why they do and agree with doing so), every ACC school is leaving lots of tickets and lots of money on the table.

The former Big East teams just want the tournament to match the energy of the Big East tournament. Currently the ACC tournament doesn't have the same feel.

I don't know that simply by playing in New York, the ACC will be able to recreate that energy. There was a culture to that tournament built on the history and style of that conferece. We may be chasing ghosts here.

Playing ACC tourney in NC every year perpetuates the idea that ACC basketball is simply the UNC and Duke conference. The conference is much more than that, but still needs to find its national identity outside of that perception.

(03-11-2016 10:40 PM)ULdave Wrote:  The former Big East teams just want the tournament to match the energy of the Big East tournament. Currently the ACC tournament doesn't have the same feel.

I don't know that simply by playing in New York, the ACC will be able to recreate that energy. There was a culture to that tournament built on the history and style of that conferece. We may be chasing ghosts here.

Playing ACC tourney in NC every year perpetuates the idea that ACC basketball is simply the UNC and Duke conference. The conference is much more than that, but still needs to find its national identity outside of that perception.

Nostalgia is a powerful thing, and I'm sorry for your loss. If the ACC had been ripped apart, and Duke were playing this week with a bunch of random teams from the Northeast or Midwest or Southeast I would probably feel the same way you do. I would sorely miss Greensboro as much as you miss MSG. If I've been insensitive to that I apologize.

Thanks for putting it so well.

Typical Tobacco Road small-mindedness. It's this line of thinking that has always held this conference back. The eleven teams that aren't on Tobacco Rd and their lap-dog UVA should vote to skip Greensboro for a decade out of spite.

Move it around and play it every state that has an ACC team.

  IMAG0046.jpg (Size: 907.39 KB / Downloads: 12)

Front page of sports section today from Greensboro

(03-12-2016 12:10 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  Typical Tobacco Road small-mindedness. It's this line of thinking that has always held this conference back. The eleven teams that aren't on Tobacco Rd and their lap-dog UVA should vote to skip Greensboro for a decade out of spite.

No, I don't think that would be wise. Greensboro is an ACC tradition that needs to be recognized. I don't think anyone is advocating pulling the tournament from there permanently or at all.

MSG was a grand BE tradition, & still is to a lesser extent for the new BE, but this is the ACC. An occasional trip back there, like what the B1G is doing, would be fun though. 7 of the 15 ACC members have played in MSG in the BE tournament, that would be a nice tradition to revisit occasionally.

(03-11-2016 10:40 PM)ULdave Wrote:  The former Big East teams just want the tournament to match the energy of the Big East tournament. Currently the ACC tournament doesn't have the same feel.

I don't know that simply by playing in New York, the ACC will be able to recreate that energy. There was a culture to that tournament built on the history and style of that conferece. We may be chasing ghosts here.

Playing ACC tourney in NC every year perpetuates the idea that ACC basketball is simply the UNC and Duke conference. The conference is much more than that, but still needs to find its national identity outside of that perception.

I think the old ACC teams just want the tournament to match the energy of the old ACC tournament. Unfortunately, neither of those things are really possible anymore. Both sides are chasing their ghosts. Their reasons are legitimate, and should be respected. This isn't a "small minded" vs "forward thinking" issue, as some are trying to frame it.

For many reasons, the ACC tournament is never going to be as special as it was, or the BE tournament was. There isn't as much at stake, and the ACC's growth, fueled largely by football considerations, has diminished it. Now, it is more like a bowl game, only with basketball instead of football as the excuse for the winter vacation.

If that's all it's going to be, then we should stop worrying about whether one city or another will embrace and enthusiastically support the tournament. If we have some empty seats, so what? We've had that for years already. The ACC fans that are looking for vacation fun, with a little basketball on the side, should, IMO, get as much variety of venues as they want.

(03-12-2016 10:46 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(03-11-2016 10:40 PM)ULdave Wrote:  The former Big East teams just want the tournament to match the energy of the Big East tournament. Currently the ACC tournament doesn't have the same feel.

I don't know that simply by playing in New York, the ACC will be able to recreate that energy. There was a culture to that tournament built on the history and style of that conferece. We may be chasing ghosts here.

Playing ACC tourney in NC every year perpetuates the idea that ACC basketball is simply the UNC and Duke conference. The conference is much more than that, but still needs to find its national identity outside of that perception.

I think the old ACC teams just want the tournament to match the energy of the old ACC tournament. Unfortunately, neither of those things are really possible anymore. Both sides are chasing their ghosts. Their reasons are legitimate, and should be respected. This isn't a "small minded" vs "forward thinking" issue, as some are trying to frame it.

For many reasons, the ACC tournament is never going to be as special as it was, or the BE tournament was. There isn't as much at stake, and the ACC's growth, fueled largely by football considerations, has diminished it. Now, it is more like a bowl game, only with basketball instead of football as the excuse for the winter vacation.

If that's all it's going to be, then we should stop worrying about whether one city or another will embrace and enthusiastically support the tournament. If we have some empty seats, so what? We've had that for years already. The ACC fans that are looking for vacation fun, with a little basketball on the side, should, IMO, get as much variety of venues as they want.

Tradition takes time to build. We have an amazing collection of elite teams here, the excitement will build. We haven't even had a tournament with all 15 teams yet & it's already top 2 or 3 in tournament matchups. We have 2 1 seeds playing for the title, no one else has that. How about that thrilling early round game between Pittsburgh & Syracuse! It's a tough tournament to win.

(03-11-2016 10:40 PM)ULdave Wrote:  The former Big East teams just want the tournament to match the energy of the Big East tournament. Currently the ACC tournament doesn't have the same feel.

I don't know that simply by playing in New York, the ACC will be able to recreate that energy. There was a culture to that tournament built on the history and style of that conferece. We may be chasing ghosts here.

Playing ACC tourney in NC every year perpetuates the idea that ACC basketball is simply the UNC and Duke conference. The conference is much more than that, but still needs to find its national identity outside of that perception.

It has to be at MSG...Barclay's will kinda suck. What made the tourney so awesome was all the alumni that work midtown and at Wall Street...a subway or cab ride...watch your game...catch some work...easily sell your tickets if you lose. It will be a different crowd for the older original ACC fans.

(03-12-2016 10:31 AM)XLance Wrote:  Front page of sports section today from Greensboro

And????

UNC is the flag ship in NC

(03-12-2016 01:26 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(03-12-2016 10:31 AM)XLance Wrote:  Front page of sports section today from Greensboro

And????

UNC is the flag ship in NC

For a Greensboro newspaper to cover a team that normally plays a mere 49 miles away is no big deal. IMO it's more impressive that the Washington Post gave the UVa win over Miami top billing - even over the win by Maryland in the Big Ten tournament!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/

(03-11-2016 10:40 PM)ULdave Wrote:  Playing ACC tourney in NC every year perpetuates the idea that ACC basketball is simply the UNC and Duke conference. The conference is much more than that, but still needs to find its national identity outside of that perception.

Your post piqued my curiosity, so I did a little research. Out of 62 ACC tournaments, a team from outside NC won a total of 12 times. Of those 12, the winner defeated UNC in the final 8 times, and Duke 3 times. Only in 1990, when Ga Tech beat Virginia, have both finalists been from outside NC.

So it's not hard to understand why the ACC might be perceived as the UNC and Duke conference when it comes to basketball. Football, not so much.

(03-12-2016 01:58 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(03-12-2016 01:26 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(03-12-2016 10:31 AM)XLance Wrote:  Front page of sports section today from Greensboro

And????

UNC is the flag ship in NC

For a Greensboro newspaper to cover a team that normally plays a mere 49 miles away is no big deal. IMO it's more impressive that the Washington Post gave the UVa win over Miami top billing - even over the win by Maryland in the Big Ten tournament!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/

Not to mention that who outside of a 45 mile radius would look at a Greensboro on-line paper versus the numbers that would look at an on-line Washington Post?



Cheers,
Neil

(03-12-2016 03:25 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(03-11-2016 10:40 PM)ULdave Wrote:  Playing ACC tourney in NC every year perpetuates the idea that ACC basketball is simply the UNC and Duke conference. The conference is much more than that, but still needs to find its national identity outside of that perception.

Your post piqued my curiosity, so I did a little research. Out of 62 ACC tournaments, a team from outside NC won a total of 12 times. Of those 12, the winner defeated UNC in the final 8 times, and Duke 3 times. Only in 1990, when Ga Tech beat Virginia, have both finalists been from outside NC.

So it's not hard to understand why the ACC might be perceived as the UNC and Duke conference when it comes to basketball. Football, not so much.

And four of those 12 wins by a team not from the state of North Carolina have been since 2012 - FSU, Miami, Virginia, and Notre Dame. And if the Cavs win tonight it will be 5 consecutive years.

As Dylan would say, the times are a changin'.

Cheers,
Neil

At the end of the day (literally), I'm less concerned about where the tournament is played as when it is played. I missed last night's Virginia-Miami game because it started so late, and I'll miss tonight's final for the same reason.

On the plus side, we'll probably get more viewers in the Mountain and Pacific time zones this way.

(03-12-2016 05:16 PM)ken d Wrote:  At the end of the day (literally), I'm less concerned about where the tournament is played as when it is played. I missed last night's Virginia-Miami game because it started so late, and I'll miss tonight's final for the same reason.

On the plus side, we'll probably get more viewers in the Mountain and Pacific time zones this way.

ken...staying up to 11pm is not that late

(03-12-2016 04:58 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(03-12-2016 03:25 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(03-11-2016 10:40 PM)ULdave Wrote:  Playing ACC tourney in NC every year perpetuates the idea that ACC basketball is simply the UNC and Duke conference. The conference is much more than that, but still needs to find its national identity outside of that perception.

Your post piqued my curiosity, so I did a little research. Out of 62 ACC tournaments, a team from outside NC won a total of 12 times. Of those 12, the winner defeated UNC in the final 8 times, and Duke 3 times. Only in 1990, when Ga Tech beat Virginia, have both finalists been from outside NC.

So it's not hard to understand why the ACC might be perceived as the UNC and Duke conference when it comes to basketball. Football, not so much.

And four of those 12 wins by a team not from the state of North Carolina have been since 2012 - FSU, Miami, Virginia, and Notre Dame. And if the Cavs win tonight it will be 5 consecutive years.

As Dylan would say, the times are a changin'.

Cheers,
Neil

The more things change, the more they stay the same!!! Tar Heels!!!

(03-12-2016 11:23 PM)samandrea Wrote:  

(03-12-2016 04:58 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(03-12-2016 03:25 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(03-11-2016 10:40 PM)ULdave Wrote:  Playing ACC tourney in NC every year perpetuates the idea that ACC basketball is simply the UNC and Duke conference. The conference is much more than that, but still needs to find its national identity outside of that perception.

Your post piqued my curiosity, so I did a little research. Out of 62 ACC tournaments, a team from outside NC won a total of 12 times. Of those 12, the winner defeated UNC in the final 8 times, and Duke 3 times. Only in 1990, when Ga Tech beat Virginia, have both finalists been from outside NC.

So it's not hard to understand why the ACC might be perceived as the UNC and Duke conference when it comes to basketball. Football, not so much.

And four of those 12 wins by a team not from the state of North Carolina have been since 2012 - FSU, Miami, Virginia, and Notre Dame. And if the Cavs win tonight it will be 5 consecutive years.

As Dylan would say, the times are a changin'.

Cheers,
Neil

The more things change, the more they stay the same!!! Tar Heels!!!

Congrats on the win. I was actually rooting for them. Of course, the fact that they drew a strong contingent of fans to DC (as would a Top 10 Duke team) just goes to show, the tourney really doesn't need to be in the state of Carolina as often as it has been in the past.

Cheers,
Neil

(03-12-2016 09:32 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(03-12-2016 05:16 PM)ken d Wrote:  At the end of the day (literally), I'm less concerned about where the tournament is played as when it is played. I missed last night's Virginia-Miami game because it started so late, and I'll miss tonight's final for the same reason.

On the plus side, we'll probably get more viewers in the Mountain and Pacific time zones this way.

ken...staying up to 11pm is not that late

From where I was sitting, the game started at 10pm EDT. I'm sure I wouldn't have died if I got less than 8 hours sleep, but I sure as hell would have felt it this morning. If I know I'm not going to stay up until the game finishes, I have little interest in just watching the first half.

There were two P5 championship games last night. Seems like they could have scheduled the one in the eastern time zone at the same time as the Kansas-WVU game started in the central. But that demonstrates the Big 12's problem. They just don't have as many eyeballs as the east coast does. ESPN was probably afraid they would have lost a lot of their audience when the ACC game was over. They really don't care if they lose a few old codgers like me that aren't going to sleep in on a Sunday morning. We don't buy enough stuff.