The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(02-12-2016 03:46 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  Think you're missing the point of the board Hoops. This board and countless thousands like it offer a venue for amateurs and wannabe coaches to spout off. All in fun and nothing to serious. If a person expresses an opinion, that's their right. Can't say it's right or wrong. It's just an opinion. Don't take any of it to seriously.

Nope, not missing the point of the board at all.

I get that we all have opinions, myself included. I can understand posts that our "team stinks" or someone can't make a shot, etc. but to suggest that an armchair quarterback knows more than a seasoned college basketball coach respected by most is ridiculous.

"Hey coach, maybe you should do this" is laughable at best. Go back to your office and do what you are good at.

(02-12-2016 04:22 PM)ODU Hoops Wrote:  

(02-12-2016 03:46 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  Think you're missing the point of the board Hoops. This board and countless thousands like it offer a venue for amateurs and wannabe coaches to spout off. All in fun and nothing to serious. If a person expresses an opinion, that's their right. Can't say it's right or wrong. It's just an opinion. Don't take any of it to seriously.

Nope, not missing the point of the board at all.

I get that we all have opinions, myself included. I can understand posts that our "team stinks" or someone can't make a shot, etc. but to suggest that an armchair quarterback knows more than a seasoned college basketball coach respected by most is ridiculous.

"Hey coach, maybe you should do this" is laughable at best. Go back to your office and do what you are good at.

Tangentially on topic: one of my favorite basketball books is Eagle Blue, by local author Mike D'Orso. It follows a small Alaskan high school basketball team through its season.

For his pep talk before the opening home game, the coach tells his team:

"There are going to be 500 fans in the gym tonight. 250 of them think that they are better coaches than I am. 50 of them probably are. But I am the coach, not any of them. If I see any of you looking to the stands for direction on what to do in the game, I will bench you and you won't see the floor again for the rest of the night."

Or something like that.

Point is, I seriously doubt that Coach Jones, or any of the assistants, or any players, care one bit what opinions are voiced on this board. Opine away!

I doubt they do either. Not my point.

It took me a while to understand that no matter how much I disagree with another poster's opinion, or assertion, and no matter how many times they post it over-and-over again, that trying to get them to stop, or change is nothing but tilting at windmills.

I still slip-up sometimes.

(02-12-2016 04:22 PM)ODU Hoops Wrote:  

(02-12-2016 03:46 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  Think you're missing the point of the board Hoops. This board and countless thousands like it offer a venue for amateurs and wannabe coaches to spout off. All in fun and nothing to serious. If a person expresses an opinion, that's their right. Can't say it's right or wrong. It's just an opinion. Don't take any of it to seriously.

Nope, not missing the point of the board at all.

I get that we all have opinions, myself included. I can understand posts that our "team stinks" or someone can't make a shot, etc. but to suggest that an armchair quarterback knows more than a seasoned college basketball coach respected by most is ridiculous.

"Hey coach, maybe you should do this" is laughable at best. Go back to your office and do what you are good at.

This is ridiculous and assumes that all coaches make the right decision 100% of the time. That is just not even arguable. I happen to agree with JJ on this particular thing, but your stance is just beyond comprehension.

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Coaches know more than us...most definitely.

The issue often becomes they are tied to their philosophies and less willing to adapt. We see this all the time and sometimes as fans we mistake this as the coach being stubborn or unwilling to change because most of us aren't at practice to see the wheels in motion.

A coach may be steadfast with his man to man even though it is not working because he can see where they are close or a few games away from getting to where they want to be.

Sometimes their belief in their philosophy doesn't pan out and they continue to dig themselves in deeper holes where adapting may have been the better solution but I believe this is rare and more likely we as fans misread what is going on and think our quick fix is better.

We just don't have enough data to accurately second guess someone who lives and breathes the sport.

(02-12-2016 07:15 PM)ODUR8R Wrote:  Coaches know more than us...most definitely.

The issue often becomes they are tied to their philosophies and less willing to adapt. We see this all the time and sometimes as fans we mistake this as the coach being stubborn or unwilling to change because most of us aren't at practice to see the wheels in motion.

A coach may be steadfast with his man to man even though it is not working because he can see where they are close or a few games away from getting to where they want to be.

Sometimes their belief in their philosophy doesn't pan out and they continue to dig themselves in deeper holes where adapting may have been the better solution but I believe this is rare and more likely we as fans misread what is going on and think our quick fix is better.

We just don't have enough data to accurately second guess someone who lives and breathes the sport.

Great post! Thanks.

(02-12-2016 12:16 PM)ODUR8R Wrote:  Baker logging more minutes gives us the best chance in Birmingham

Maybe if Trey is on fire, but if not we need scoring.

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Here's my defense of Baker/Taylor's PT and JJ's method towards victory....

Baker guarding the other team's best wing/guard generally represents some decline in efficiency for the opponent, let's say a guard averaging 15/game scores 11 or is horribly inefficient in scoring 15 and we gain four points.

Let's assume Taylor does the same against a stretch forward and we gain a net 7 points.

Now let's speculate that ODU as the 26th best OREB team in the nation gains an extra four possessions/game vs the national average and the equates to another 4 points per game for a net 11 points/game.

Now the Monarchs are the 11th best team in the nation in turnover percentage which we can speculate adds to another four possessions per game and this 4 points/game which brings us to 15 points/game added.

This strategy has given us 15 net points as a baseline and allowed us to absorb next to zero offensive production from our shooting guard and power forward.

Now when we play either UAB OR MT, that 15 net baseline probably becomes even and it will require either Baker/Taylor to produce on offense or Bacote to go to at least 20/game or Freeman to go deep into the 30's.

Sorry for the messy observation, I gave the condensed version of my thoughts.

(02-12-2016 07:44 PM)ODUR8R Wrote:  Here's my defense of Baker/Taylor's PT and JJ's method towards victory....

Baker guarding the other team's best wing/guard generally represents some decline in efficiency for the opponent, let's say a guard averaging 15/game scores 11 or is horribly inefficient in scoring 15 and we gain four points.

Let's assume Taylor does the same against a stretch forward and we gain a net 7 points.

Now let's speculate that ODU as the 26th best OREB team in the nation gains an extra four possessions/game vs the national average and the equates to another 4 points per game for a net 11 points/game.

Now the Monarchs are the 11th best team in the nation in turnover percentage which we can speculate adds to another four possessions per game and this 4 points/game which brings us to 15 points/game added.

This strategy has given us 15 net points as a baseline and allowed us to absorb next to zero offensive production from our shooting guard and power forward.

Now when we play either UAB OR MT, that 15 net baseline probably becomes even and it will require either Baker/Taylor to produce on offense or Bacote to go to at least 20/game or Freeman to go deep into the 30's.

Sorry for the messy observation, I gave the condensed version of my thoughts.

I agree with that. Good teams have too many weapons and we need the scoring.

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(02-12-2016 07:44 PM)ODUR8R Wrote:  Here's my defense of Baker/Taylor's PT and JJ's method towards victory....

Baker guarding the other team's best wing/guard generally represents some decline in efficiency for the opponent, let's say a guard averaging 15/game scores 11 or is horribly inefficient in scoring 15 and we gain four points.

Let's assume Taylor does the same against a stretch forward and we gain a net 7 points.

Now let's speculate that ODU as the 26th best OREB team in the nation gains an extra four possessions/game vs the national average and the equates to another 4 points per game for a net 11 points/game.

Now the Monarchs are the 11th best team in the nation in turnover percentage which we can speculate adds to another four possessions per game and this 4 points/game which brings us to 15 points/game added.

This strategy has given us 15 net points as a baseline and allowed us to absorb next to zero offensive production from our shooting guard and power forward.

Now when we play either UAB OR MT, that 15 net baseline probably becomes even and it will require either Baker/Taylor to produce on offense or Bacote to go to at least 20/game or Freeman to go deep into the 30's.

Sorry for the messy observation, I gave the condensed version of my thoughts.

Appreciate the analysis R8R! Right there with you.


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(02-12-2016 07:03 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(02-12-2016 04:22 PM)ODU Hoops Wrote:  

(02-12-2016 03:46 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  Think you're missing the point of the board Hoops. This board and countless thousands like it offer a venue for amateurs and wannabe coaches to spout off. All in fun and nothing to serious. If a person expresses an opinion, that's their right. Can't say it's right or wrong. It's just an opinion. Don't take any of it to seriously.

Nope, not missing the point of the board at all.

I get that we all have opinions, myself included. I can understand posts that our "team stinks" or someone can't make a shot, etc. but to suggest that an armchair quarterback knows more than a seasoned college basketball coach respected by most is ridiculous.

"Hey coach, maybe you should do this" is laughable at best. Go back to your office and do what you are good at.

This is ridiculous and assumes that all coaches make the right decision 100% of the time. That is just not even arguable. I happen to agree with JJ on this particular thing, but your stance is just beyond comprehension.

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Are you serious? This does not assume that all coaches make the right decision all of the time. My stance is beyond comprehension? You just stuck up for armchair joe who missed his calling as an NBA coach. Maybe you can be his first assistant.

Haha. Easy tiger. You very clearly said that a fan cannot be right when disagreeing with the decisions of a coach, because apparently the fact that someone has agreed to pay someone to coach means they are beyond any question from a common fan.

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(02-12-2016 10:28 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Haha. Easy tiger. You very clearly said that a fan cannot be right when disagreeing with the decisions of a coach, because apparently the fact that someone has agreed to pay someone to coach means they are beyond any question from a common fan.

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Sorry you failed reading comprehension, but go back and read what I said again. I didn't "very clearly" say that at all. Do I have to go back and quite myself or would you like to? Either way you will be wrong.

I'll help you, here is what I said:

"I get that we all have opinions, myself included. I can understand posts that our "team stinks" or someone can't make a shot, etc. but to suggest that an armchair quarterback knows more than a seasoned college basketball coach respected by most is ridiculous."

(02-12-2016 03:46 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  Think you're missing the point of the board Hoops. This board and countless thousands like it offer a venue for amateurs and wannabe coaches to spout off. All in fun and nothing to serious. If a person expresses an opinion, that's their right. Can't say it's right or wrong. It's just an opinion. Don't take any of it to seriously.

Well the boards are also for reading so when you feel like you can add something worthy of comment you do so and when you type like an amateur you should figure it out and realize I should just read an learn the game basketball.

The armchair coaches were right about Blaine. The company line parrots that defended him even after the coaches show meltdown were wrong. I'm still torn on Jones. We overperformed his first 2 years. This season has been a huge disappointment, but then, Douglas was to be a huge piece.

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Can this thread be closed? It has gone from being about the North Texas game to a debate about Jones. If people want to debate about Jones create a thread for it.

(02-12-2016 03:37 PM)ODU Hoops Wrote:  

(02-12-2016 03:03 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(02-12-2016 02:54 PM)Chillie Willie Wrote:  

(02-12-2016 02:22 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  For the record I have no problem with baker getting big minutes as long as he plays lights out defense and it is the right matchup.

against certain teams where we need to play better offensively, he needs to see more of the bench. Teams who spread the ball and have multiple scorers, baker is far less valuable.

Against teams with one dominant shooter, he's much more valuable. The only problem I have with baker is that in 3 years his offensive game hasn't developed very much at all.

I was about to say the same thing. He is on the floor for defense when we need to protect a lead and the other team has a player who can take over. When we need more offense to catch up then he is a liability. He has never really developed any game inside the three point line. He would be much more valuable offensively if he did.

Him playing significant minutes against Marshall or UAB should not even be a thought.

Once again, one of my favorite types of statements. Do you or have you ever coached basketball? Do you really think you have a better perspective than our coaching staff? Hilarious.

Do you really think the only way to understand basketball is if you coached it in college?

There are hundreds of d-1 bball coaches. Even more d2 and d3 and high school coaches, all with different philosophies and ideas about the game.

You discounting someone else's point of view because jones definitely knows more is absurd, but about par for the course.

Jones is not some perfect coach and plenty of his decisions are open to criticism, just like any other coach, by people who intently watch and understand the game.

(02-12-2016 07:15 PM)ODUR8R Wrote:  Coaches know more than us...most definitely.

The issue often becomes they are tied to their philosophies and less willing to adapt. We see this all the time and sometimes as fans we mistake this as the coach being stubborn or unwilling to change because most of us aren't at practice to see the wheels in motion.

A coach may be steadfast with his man to man even though it is not working because he can see where they are close or a few games away from getting to where they want to be.

Sometimes their belief in their philosophy doesn't pan out and they continue to dig themselves in deeper holes where adapting may have been the better solution but I believe this is rare and more likely we as fans misread what is going on and think our quick fix is better.

We just don't have enough data to accurately second guess someone who lives and breathes the sport.

Precisely correct.