ACC

Atlantic: BC, Cuse, Pitt, Lville, Gtech, FSU, Miami

Coastal: UNC, Duke, NC state, Wake, UVA, Vtech, Clemson

6-1-1 format with games of FSU/Clemson, G tech/ UVA, Duke/Cuse, Vtech/ Lville, NC State/Pitt, BC/Wake, UNC/Miami. Maybe give G tech a yearly game with ND to make them happy.

(01-11-2016 07:24 AM)ren.hoek Wrote:  

(01-09-2016 07:10 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 02:24 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  #2 - this is the issue.

Proposal dead on arrival due to this.

GT wants to play Clemson (big gap) Duke/UNC/FSU (big gap) UVA (big gap) VT.

UNC/Duke want to play GT more than any other non-NC school.

If that is indeed the case, then GT for Louisville is very workable and beneficial for everyone.

GT gets FSU annually which makes way too much sense. I had assumed GT would want UVa as a crossover in this case, but they could make Duke - GT the permanent crossover (and play Duke - WF as an annual OOC since neither have a permanent OOC rival). WF would get UVa as a permanent crossover, which would probably please both. Clemson would draw VT as their crossover, which would be a great annual showcase game for the ACC. The big downside would be sacrificing GT-UNC, which I believe is outweighed by the benefits.

This move would restore some geographic balance since the 4 northernmost teams would be split. The state of Virginia would be in one division, but the Clemson - GT pie would be in the other division.

Except you forget that UNC would likely talk a couple of their buddy schools into voting no on this.

For instance, Duke would be aligned as well as UVA. Then, factor in NC State and VT.

Good luck breaking that block up.

(01-11-2016 09:24 AM)ken d Wrote:  While this is an ACC board, and this post may be construed as anti-ACC (or at least antithetical to its interests), it's not meant to be. I keep drifting back to a single idea. If Florida State and Clemson were to move to the SEC, most of the ACC's scheduling problems are easily solved.

Dude -- we're not letting Clemson go anywhere.

If only for the rare season where they field not only a championship caliber football outfit, but a above-competitive basketball outfit, too.


Y'all want some heresy...?

I'd be willing to entertain a straight up trade between the two conferences -- FSU for Kentucky.


And yes, I typed that with a straight face.

(01-11-2016 11:41 AM)bluesox Wrote:  ACC

Atlantic: BC, Cuse, Pitt, Lville, Gtech, FSU, Miami

Coastal: UNC, Duke, NC state, Wake, UVA, Vtech, Clemson

6-1-1 format with games of FSU/Clemson, G tech/ UVA, Duke/Cuse, Vtech/ Lville, NC State/Pitt, BC/Wake, UNC/Miami. Maybe give G tech a yearly game with ND to make them happy.

No. From Clemson's point of view there is absolutely nothing desirable about that divisional alignment. Perhaps if we had the same philosophy as UNC and NC State where we wanted out schedule to be as easy as possible it would be OK, but as our OOC scheduling has shown we want tough schedules and desirable games and that division slate is far from desirable.

(01-11-2016 09:56 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(01-11-2016 09:24 AM)ken d Wrote:  While this is an ACC board, and this post may be construed as anti-ACC (or at least antithetical to its interests), it's not meant to be. I keep drifting back to a single idea. If Florida State and Clemson were to move to the SEC, most of the ACC's scheduling problems are easily solved.

You could then have a southern division that includes all four NC schools plus Ga Tech and Virginia. The schedule could be all division members plus three rotating opponents every year with no permanent crossovers. That way, you play every other member home and away every four years. This would dictate that Va Tech and Virginia play OOC every other year.

With Clemson in the SEC, they would be freed up to play annual OOC games against both Ga Tech and NC State. FSU now plays Miami OOC instead of Florida (which also plays Miami OOC). With Clemson now on its conference schedule, South Carolina could play both UNC and NC State every year. Both Carolina and State still have room for ECU, which helps fill three stadiums.

Ga Tech gets to keep its current division rivals, and has room on its schedule to accommodate both Clemson and Georgia OOC every year. Nobody in any of these moves has to sacrifice a seventh home game. That's important to a lot, but not all, of these players.

Wake Forest and NC State get to play Carolina and Duke every year the way they used to. Without Clemson and FSU on its annual schedule, Wake gets to pick opponents that are more suited to its abilities. Annual games with App State and Charlotte could help fill their stadium, and a long-term series with Army gives them hope every year of qualifying for a bowl.

I know it's counter intuitive to think that losing your two best football programs could help your conference, but it doesn't have to hurt it much either.

It works if you don't want the ACC to be a power conference anymore. Take a huge cut in TV $. There are much better ways to solve the scheduling issues.

Please don't misconstrue what I am saying here. I am not proposing this as a solution to what seems to be an intractable scheduling problem for ACC football. What I am saying is that I don't think there is another solution, or one would have been found by now. And, as hard as it might be to hear, this may not be within the ACC's power to control.

At some point, the SEC may decide that adding Clemson and Florida State would address its goals better than other choices they may have available to them. They may conclude that, while getting into North Carolina and Virginia may be useful for expanding the reach of its network, as a practical matter it may never happen. And if they were to offer membership to both FSU and Clemson, my guess is that both would accept - one perhaps more eagerly than the other.

My point is, that need not be the end of the world for the ACC and its remaining members. There could be a silver lining to that cloud. And while the result might be less than optimal, and might leave us with hurt pride and a few bucks less in our wallets, it doesn't have to mean that football would no longer meet the broader educational goals of our members. It could even mean that it meets them even better for many of those members, even if it doesn't do so for all.

Do any Clemson or FSU fans here think that their school would turn down an invite to the SEC if it were offered with no strings attached? Especially if you believed that there was nothing the league could or would do to improve the status quo for football?

The most ideal situation would be for conference deregulation to pass and for the ACC to be able to scrap the divisions all-together. In that situation you could keep the 8 conference game schedule and have each team play 3 "protected" rivalry games plus 5/10 of the remaining teams. Under this plan, each team in the conference would play each other team in the conference every other year and would have a home game every 4th year, which is far more frequent than what it is today.

(01-11-2016 01:53 PM)ken d Wrote:  Do any Clemson or FSU fans here think that their school would turn down an invite to the SEC if it were offered with no strings attached?

No. I doubt the echo of the offer being extended would cease before we accepted.

Quote:Especially if you believed that there was nothing the league could or would do to improve the status quo for football?

The ACC is never going to catch the SEC in football because there are too many schools that either have geographic and/or institutional limits on their ability.

(01-11-2016 03:50 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(01-11-2016 01:53 PM)ken d Wrote:  Do any Clemson or FSU fans here think that their school would turn down an invite to the SEC if it were offered with no strings attached?

No. I doubt the echo of the offer being extended would cease before we accepted.

Quote:Especially if you believed that there was nothing the league could or would do to improve the status quo for football?

The ACC is never going to catch the SEC in football because there are too many schools that either have geographic and/or institutional limits on their ability.

As much as I like having Clemson in the ACC, I think they would be crazy to turn down the SEC. I don't think any ACC fan should begrudge them that.

(01-11-2016 01:53 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-11-2016 09:56 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(01-11-2016 09:24 AM)ken d Wrote:  While this is an ACC board, and this post may be construed as anti-ACC (or at least antithetical to its interests), it's not meant to be. I keep drifting back to a single idea. If Florida State and Clemson were to move to the SEC, most of the ACC's scheduling problems are easily solved.

You could then have a southern division that includes all four NC schools plus Ga Tech and Virginia. The schedule could be all division members plus three rotating opponents every year with no permanent crossovers. That way, you play every other member home and away every four years. This would dictate that Va Tech and Virginia play OOC every other year.

With Clemson in the SEC, they would be freed up to play annual OOC games against both Ga Tech and NC State. FSU now plays Miami OOC instead of Florida (which also plays Miami OOC). With Clemson now on its conference schedule, South Carolina could play both UNC and NC State every year. Both Carolina and State still have room for ECU, which helps fill three stadiums.

Ga Tech gets to keep its current division rivals, and has room on its schedule to accommodate both Clemson and Georgia OOC every year. Nobody in any of these moves has to sacrifice a seventh home game. That's important to a lot, but not all, of these players.

Wake Forest and NC State get to play Carolina and Duke every year the way they used to. Without Clemson and FSU on its annual schedule, Wake gets to pick opponents that are more suited to its abilities. Annual games with App State and Charlotte could help fill their stadium, and a long-term series with Army gives them hope every year of qualifying for a bowl.

I know it's counter intuitive to think that losing your two best football programs could help your conference, but it doesn't have to hurt it much either.

It works if you don't want the ACC to be a power conference anymore. Take a huge cut in TV $. There are much better ways to solve the scheduling issues.

Please don't misconstrue what I am saying here. I am not proposing this as a solution to what seems to be an intractable scheduling problem for ACC football. What I am saying is that I don't think there is another solution, or one would have been found by now. And, as hard as it might be to hear, this may not be within the ACC's power to control.

At some point, the SEC may decide that adding Clemson and Florida State would address its goals better than other choices they may have available to them. They may conclude that, while getting into North Carolina and Virginia may be useful for expanding the reach of its network, as a practical matter it may never happen. And if they were to offer membership to both FSU and Clemson, my guess is that both would accept - one perhaps more eagerly than the other.

My point is, that need not be the end of the world for the ACC and its remaining members. There could be a silver lining to that cloud. And while the result might be less than optimal, and might leave us with hurt pride and a few bucks less in our wallets, it doesn't have to mean that football would no longer meet the broader educational goals of our members. It could even mean that it meets them even better for many of those members, even if it doesn't do so for all.

Do any Clemson or FSU fans here think that their school would turn down an invite to the SEC if it were offered with no strings attached? Especially if you believed that there was nothing the league could or would do to improve the status quo for football?

FSU & Clemson would accept an invite from the SEC, who wouldn't, but losing those two would cost the ACC more than just a few dollars. It would become a tweener conference between the P4 & the G5. I could see somewhere between a 1/4 & half cut from the TV contract. Going division-less solves a lot of problems without costing the ACC any teams or $. If divisions are required then just rotating 3 teams every other year works just as well. For example;

Coastal- Atlantic
Miami- FSU
NC- Clemson
Duke- GT
Virginia- VT
-Rotate-
BC- WF
Pitt- Louisville
Syr- NC State

You can set it up anyway you want. Everyone plays everyone H&H within 6 years & keeps an 8 game schedule.

(01-11-2016 06:46 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(01-11-2016 01:53 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-11-2016 09:56 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(01-11-2016 09:24 AM)ken d Wrote:  While this is an ACC board, and this post may be construed as anti-ACC (or at least antithetical to its interests), it's not meant to be. I keep drifting back to a single idea. If Florida State and Clemson were to move to the SEC, most of the ACC's scheduling problems are easily solved.

You could then have a southern division that includes all four NC schools plus Ga Tech and Virginia. The schedule could be all division members plus three rotating opponents every year with no permanent crossovers. That way, you play every other member home and away every four years. This would dictate that Va Tech and Virginia play OOC every other year.

With Clemson in the SEC, they would be freed up to play annual OOC games against both Ga Tech and NC State. FSU now plays Miami OOC instead of Florida (which also plays Miami OOC). With Clemson now on its conference schedule, South Carolina could play both UNC and NC State every year. Both Carolina and State still have room for ECU, which helps fill three stadiums.

Ga Tech gets to keep its current division rivals, and has room on its schedule to accommodate both Clemson and Georgia OOC every year. Nobody in any of these moves has to sacrifice a seventh home game. That's important to a lot, but not all, of these players.

Wake Forest and NC State get to play Carolina and Duke every year the way they used to. Without Clemson and FSU on its annual schedule, Wake gets to pick opponents that are more suited to its abilities. Annual games with App State and Charlotte could help fill their stadium, and a long-term series with Army gives them hope every year of qualifying for a bowl.

I know it's counter intuitive to think that losing your two best football programs could help your conference, but it doesn't have to hurt it much either.

It works if you don't want the ACC to be a power conference anymore. Take a huge cut in TV $. There are much better ways to solve the scheduling issues.

Please don't misconstrue what I am saying here. I am not proposing this as a solution to what seems to be an intractable scheduling problem for ACC football. What I am saying is that I don't think there is another solution, or one would have been found by now. And, as hard as it might be to hear, this may not be within the ACC's power to control.

At some point, the SEC may decide that adding Clemson and Florida State would address its goals better than other choices they may have available to them. They may conclude that, while getting into North Carolina and Virginia may be useful for expanding the reach of its network, as a practical matter it may never happen. And if they were to offer membership to both FSU and Clemson, my guess is that both would accept - one perhaps more eagerly than the other.

My point is, that need not be the end of the world for the ACC and its remaining members. There could be a silver lining to that cloud. And while the result might be less than optimal, and might leave us with hurt pride and a few bucks less in our wallets, it doesn't have to mean that football would no longer meet the broader educational goals of our members. It could even mean that it meets them even better for many of those members, even if it doesn't do so for all.

Do any Clemson or FSU fans here think that their school would turn down an invite to the SEC if it were offered with no strings attached? Especially if you believed that there was nothing the league could or would do to improve the status quo for football?

FSU & Clemson would accept an invite from the SEC, who wouldn't, but losing those two would cost the ACC more than just a few dollars. It would become a tweener conference between the P4 & the G5. I could see somewhere between a 1/4 & half cut from the TV contract. Going division-less solves a lot of problems without costing the ACC any teams or $. If divisions are required then just rotating 3 teams every other year works just as well. For example;

Coastal- Atlantic
Miami- FSU
NC- Clemson
Duke- GT
Virginia- VT
-Rotate-
BC- WF
Pitt- Louisville
Syr- NC State

You can set it up anyway you want. Everyone plays everyone H&H within 6 years & keeps an 8 game schedule.

Or for more balance;

Coastal- Atlantic
Miami- FSU
GT- Clemson
Pitt- BC
-Rotate-
Virginia- VT
NC- Louisville
Duke- WF
NC State-Syracuse

(01-08-2016 02:24 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 02:02 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  Snag #1
If the first two seasons of it have been any indication, Louisville/Virginia is one of the best up-and-coming nasty football rivalries in P5. Why would anyone want to give that up...?

Snag #2
You'd have to convince one (if not all three) of North Carolina, Duke and (maybe) Virginia to give up annual games with Georgia Tech. Good luck.

#1 - If Louisville were in the Coastal they'd still play UVa annually, plus add VT, Pitt and Miami. HUGE win for U of L

#2 - this is the issue.

I think you guys underestimate Louisville's desire to remain in the same division as FSU and Clemson. We like being in the tough division.

(01-11-2016 06:26 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-11-2016 03:50 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(01-11-2016 01:53 PM)ken d Wrote:  Do any Clemson or FSU fans here think that their school would turn down an invite to the SEC if it were offered with no strings attached?

No. I doubt the echo of the offer being extended would cease before we accepted.

Quote:Especially if you believed that there was nothing the league could or would do to improve the status quo for football?

The ACC is never going to catch the SEC in football because there are too many schools that either have geographic and/or institutional limits on their ability.

As much as I like having Clemson in the ACC, I think they would be crazy to turn down the SEC. I don't think any ACC fan should begrudge them that.

Say wut?

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

(01-11-2016 11:41 AM)bluesox Wrote:  ACC

Atlantic: BC, Cuse, Pitt, Lville, Gtech, FSU, Miami

Coastal: UNC, Duke, NC state, Wake, UVA, Vtech, Clemson

6-1-1 format with games of FSU/Clemson, G tech/ UVA, Duke/Cuse, Vtech/ Lville, NC State/Pitt, BC/Wake, UNC/Miami. Maybe give G tech a yearly game with ND to make them happy.

My favorite one so far....

Kinda the donut...

I vote for maintaining the status quo.

(01-11-2016 11:41 AM)bluesox Wrote:  ACC

Atlantic: BC, Cuse, Pitt, Lville, Gtech, FSU, Miami

Coastal: UNC, Duke, NC state, Wake, UVA, Vtech, Clemson

6-1-1 format with games of FSU/Clemson, G tech/ UVA, Duke/Cuse, Vtech/ Lville, NC State/Pitt, BC/Wake, UNC/Miami. Maybe give G tech a yearly game with ND to make them happy.

You are precariously close to the most rage inducing schedule imaginable for GT. Swap out Wake for FSU and you seal the deal. That schedule would cost GT a 20% attendance reduction in football at minimum. In years where GT plays in Athens, that probably jumps to a staggering 33%.

That alignment would go down about as well as hiring Vince Dooley to be AD at GT. Are you trying to make GT patch it up with the SEC West and bury Bear's betrayal??

(01-12-2016 12:46 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-11-2016 11:41 AM)bluesox Wrote:  ACC

Atlantic: BC, Cuse, Pitt, Lville, Gtech, FSU, Miami

Coastal: UNC, Duke, NC state, Wake, UVA, Vtech, Clemson

6-1-1 format with games of FSU/Clemson, G tech/ UVA, Duke/Cuse, Vtech/ Lville, NC State/Pitt, BC/Wake, UNC/Miami. Maybe give G tech a yearly game with ND to make them happy.

You are precariously close to the most rage inducing schedule imaginable for GT. Swap out Wake for FSU and you seal the deal. That schedule would cost GT a 20% attendance reduction in football at minimum. In years where GT plays in Athens, that probably jumps to a staggering 33%.

That alignment would go down about as well as hiring Vince Dooley to be AD at GT. Are you trying to make GT patch it up with the SEC West and bury Bear's betrayal??

sigh...what looks great for Cuse looks like crap for GT and Clemson...

3-5-5 would solve most of this crap.

(01-12-2016 10:10 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(01-12-2016 12:46 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-11-2016 11:41 AM)bluesox Wrote:  ACC

Atlantic: BC, Cuse, Pitt, Lville, Gtech, FSU, Miami

Coastal: UNC, Duke, NC state, Wake, UVA, Vtech, Clemson

6-1-1 format with games of FSU/Clemson, G tech/ UVA, Duke/Cuse, Vtech/ Lville, NC State/Pitt, BC/Wake, UNC/Miami. Maybe give G tech a yearly game with ND to make them happy.

You are precariously close to the most rage inducing schedule imaginable for GT. Swap out Wake for FSU and you seal the deal. That schedule would cost GT a 20% attendance reduction in football at minimum. In years where GT plays in Athens, that probably jumps to a staggering 33%.

That alignment would go down about as well as hiring Vince Dooley to be AD at GT. Are you trying to make GT patch it up with the SEC West and bury Bear's betrayal??

sigh...what looks great for Cuse looks like crap for GT and Clemson...

3-5-5 would solve most of this crap.

The "status quo" is the best approach and the best compromise available.

(01-12-2016 10:26 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  The "status quo" is the best approach and the best compromise available.

Unless the NCAA de-regulates championship games.

And that looks less and less likely

Say deregulation does pass & anything goes, what's the census on the top alternatives?

Mine would be the divisionless 3-5-5 or switching 3 set teams out every other year.