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yet another division idea...
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ren.hoek Offline
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Post: #1
yet another division idea...
swap GT for Louisville, which is fairly even competitively.
rearrange crossover rivalries as follows
BC-Louisville
GT-Virginia
Clemson-VT

other crossovers are unchanged.

cue the divisionless advocates to comment in 3, 2, 1,...
01-08-2016 01:57 PM
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ecuacc4ever Offline
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Post: #2
RE: yet another division idea...
You forgot the advocates for status quo :)

ATLANTIC

Boston College
Clemson
Florida State
Louisville
NC State
Syracuse
Wake Forest

COASTAL

Duke
Georgia Tech
Miami
North Carolina
Pitt
Viriginia
Virginia Tech

Snag #1
If the first two seasons of it have been any indication, Louisville/Virginia is one of the best up-and-coming nasty football rivalries in P5. Why would anyone want to give that up...?

Snag #2
You'd have to convince one (if not all three) of North Carolina, Duke and (maybe) Virginia to give up annual games with Georgia Tech. Good luck.
01-08-2016 02:02 PM
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HRFlossY Offline
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RE: yet another division idea...
As much as this may sound like a good idea I can guarantee you someone will be upset and thus, nothing will change. Rise and Repeat07-coffee3
FLossY Out...03-zzz
01-08-2016 02:02 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #4
RE: yet another division idea...
(01-08-2016 02:02 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  Snag #1
If the first two seasons of it have been any indication, Louisville/Virginia is one of the best up-and-coming nasty football rivalries in P5. Why would anyone want to give that up...?

Snag #2
You'd have to convince one (if not all three) of North Carolina, Duke and (maybe) Virginia to give up annual games with Georgia Tech. Good luck.

#1 - If Louisville were in the Coastal they'd still play UVa annually, plus add VT, Pitt and Miami. HUGE win for U of L

#2 - this is the issue.
01-08-2016 02:24 PM
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jaminandjachin Offline
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Post: #5
RE: yet another division idea...
The only thing that makes sense right now is to swap Boston College or Syracuse for Pitt. BC and Syracuse need to be split for travel and competitiveness.
01-08-2016 02:52 PM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Post: #6
yet another division idea...
(01-08-2016 02:24 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(01-08-2016 02:02 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  Snag #1
If the first two seasons of it have been any indication, Louisville/Virginia is one of the best up-and-coming nasty football rivalries in P5. Why would anyone want to give that up...?

Snag #2
You'd have to convince one (if not all three) of North Carolina, Duke and (maybe) Virginia to give up annual games with Georgia Tech. Good luck.

#1 - If Louisville were in the Coastal they'd still play UVa annually, plus add VT, Pitt and Miami. HUGE win for U of L

#2 - this is the issue.

As far as #1 playing VT, Pitt & Miami would be great but not at the expense of losing FSU, Clemson & Syracuse. Having Clemson as our crossover would make it better.
01-08-2016 04:17 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: yet another division idea...
(01-08-2016 04:17 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  
(01-08-2016 02:24 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(01-08-2016 02:02 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  Snag #1
If the first two seasons of it have been any indication, Louisville/Virginia is one of the best up-and-coming nasty football rivalries in P5. Why would anyone want to give that up...?

Snag #2
You'd have to convince one (if not all three) of North Carolina, Duke and (maybe) Virginia to give up annual games with Georgia Tech. Good luck.

#1 - If Louisville were in the Coastal they'd still play UVa annually, plus add VT, Pitt and Miami. HUGE win for U of L

#2 - this is the issue.

As far as #1 playing VT, Pitt & Miami would be great but not at the expense of losing FSU, Clemson & Syracuse. Having Clemson as our crossover would make it better.

You know you want UL to play VT... I'm surprised you can sleep at night!
07-coffee3
01-08-2016 05:50 PM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Post: #8
yet another division idea...
(01-08-2016 05:50 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(01-08-2016 04:17 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  
(01-08-2016 02:24 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(01-08-2016 02:02 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  Snag #1
If the first two seasons of it have been any indication, Louisville/Virginia is one of the best up-and-coming nasty football rivalries in P5. Why would anyone want to give that up...?

Snag #2
You'd have to convince one (if not all three) of North Carolina, Duke and (maybe) Virginia to give up annual games with Georgia Tech. Good luck.

#1 - If Louisville were in the Coastal they'd still play UVa annually, plus add VT, Pitt and Miami. HUGE win for U of L

#2 - this is the issue.

As far as #1 playing VT, Pitt & Miami would be great but not at the expense of losing FSU, Clemson & Syracuse. Having Clemson as our crossover would make it better.

You know you want UL to play VT... I'm surprised you can sleep at night!
07-coffee3

I do want to play VT, if we could switch our crossover from Virginia to VT that would be perfect. Anxious for some Gator Bowl revenge!
01-08-2016 07:35 PM
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Ragu Offline
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yet another division idea...
(01-08-2016 02:52 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  The only thing that makes sense right now is to swap Boston College or Syracuse for Pitt. BC and Syracuse need to be split for travel and competitiveness.

Syracuse for va tech swap is the one that makes sense
01-08-2016 08:28 PM
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jaminandjachin Offline
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Post: #10
RE: yet another division idea...
(01-08-2016 08:28 PM)Ragu Wrote:  
(01-08-2016 02:52 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  The only thing that makes sense right now is to swap Boston College or Syracuse for Pitt. BC and Syracuse need to be split for travel and competitiveness.

Syracuse for va tech swap is the one that makes sense

I wanted to keep both swaps in the north. Besides, I think that weakens the Coastal a little too much. VT is viewed as the strong program over Pitt.

Atlantic

Clemson, FSU, Louisville, Pitt, NCSU, BC, Wake

Coastal

UNC, Miami, VT, Duke, GT, UVA, Syr
01-08-2016 10:55 PM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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yet another division idea...
How about this:

Atlantic
FSU, Clemson, GT, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, BC

Coastal
NC, Duke, NC State, WF, Virginia, Miami, VT

Crossovers
FSU-Miami
Clemson-NC
GT-Duke
UL-VT
Pitt-NC St
Syracuse-WF
BC-Virginia

(Switched out NC State & WF for GT & Pitt.)
(This post was last modified: 01-09-2016 04:22 AM by Lenvillecards.)
01-09-2016 04:12 AM
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ken d Online
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Post: #12
RE: yet another division idea...
(01-08-2016 02:02 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  You forgot the advocates for status quo :)

ATLANTIC

Boston College
Clemson
Florida State
Louisville
NC State
Syracuse
Wake Forest

COASTAL

Duke
Georgia Tech
Miami
North Carolina
Pitt
Viriginia
Virginia Tech

Snag #1
If the first two seasons of it have been any indication, Louisville/Virginia is one of the best up-and-coming nasty football rivalries in P5. Why would anyone want to give that up...?

Snag #2
You'd have to convince one (if not all three) of North Carolina, Duke and (maybe) Virginia to give up annual games with Georgia Tech. Good luck.

That right there is the stickiest problem for the league, and IMO the biggest reason that the status quo won't be easily broken.

There are several considerations that are usually taken into account in trying to arrange divisions when there isn't a single obvious geographical solution. One of these is competitive balance. Right now, the two divisions are closely balanced, strength wise if you are looking at average strength. Now, at the top, they aren't as well balanced because Miami and Va Tech - which were the equals to FSU and Clemson when they were added to the league - have slipped lately.

But where is it written that two divisions have to be balanced? It's not a rule, and if it gets in the way of a better solution it could, and should, be set aside.

Another assumption is that every school should play each other on some sort of regular basis. Again, where is this rule written? It certainly sounds like something conferences ought to do. But at what cost? I heard a number of posters from many different schools express that they really didn't care if they ever played .....(insert team here)....

Within the current rules, as long as there are two divisions which play a round robin within the division, crossovers can be established however the conference wants. Here's a radical thought. What if every school had two permanent crossovers instead of one? And what if, instead of having 14 members vote on which those crossovers would be, we have a draft instead.

My suggestion for the divisions would be (in alphabetical order):

Duke
Louisville
North Carolina
NC State
Virginia
Va Tech
Wake Forest

BC
Clemson
Florida St
Ga Tech
Miami
Pitt
Syracuse

Let the weaker division draft their crossovers in alphabetical order, with the second round in reverse alphabetical order (Duke would have picks #1 and #14 and Wake would have #7 and #8). I guess the draft would play out something like this:

Duke would probably pick Ga Tech first, and I suspect Louisville would want Miami. With the third pick Carolina would likely take Ga Tech off the board. I believe NC State would want Clemson. Since Ga Tech is no longer available, UVa picks Pitt and Va Tech selects Clemson, taking them off the board.

With the next two picks, Wake takes BC and Syracuse. This leaves FSU available for Va Tech. FSU lobbies UVa to take somebody else, so the Cavs select BC. State chooses the Noles, and Carolina takes Miami. Louisville takes Pitt, leaving Syracuse for Duke's second pick.

To recap, from the point of view of the division that did not pick their crossovers, this is how the dust settled in my imaginary draft:

BC..................Wake & Virginia
Clemson..........State and Va Tech
Florida State...Va Tech and State
Ga Tech..........Duke & UNC
Miami.............Louisville & UNC
Pitt................Virginia & Louisville
Syracuse........Wake & Duke

Now any two schools who want to play each other can choose to do so OOC. The only game I see as a potential annual game is Ga Tech and Virginia. Other schools may want to rotate among all the other schools who are willing to play them, while some schools may prefer not to play any more than their fixed slate of 8 league opponents.

In this scenario, which schools would be the happiest, and which ones the most disappointed with their schedule?
(This post was last modified: 01-09-2016 11:37 AM by ken d.)
01-09-2016 10:36 AM
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esayem Online
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RE: yet another division idea...
(01-08-2016 08:28 PM)Ragu Wrote:  
(01-08-2016 02:52 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  The only thing that makes sense right now is to swap Boston College or Syracuse for Pitt. BC and Syracuse need to be split for travel and competitiveness.

Syracuse for va tech swap is the one that makes sense

Yeah I've mentioned this before to mainly deaf ears. The risks include a possible title game rematch, albeit rare. VaTech has more history with Wake (their closest opponent), NC State, and FSU than UNC, Duke, and Miami. Plus, the conference adds a yearly Pitt/Louisville game.
01-09-2016 12:16 PM
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jaminandjachin Offline
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RE: yet another division idea...
(01-09-2016 12:16 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(01-08-2016 08:28 PM)Ragu Wrote:  
(01-08-2016 02:52 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  The only thing that makes sense right now is to swap Boston College or Syracuse for Pitt. BC and Syracuse need to be split for travel and competitiveness.

Syracuse for va tech swap is the one that makes sense

Yeah I've mentioned this before to mainly deaf ears. The risks include a possible title game rematch, albeit rare. VaTech has more history with Wake (their closest opponent), NC State, and FSU than UNC, Duke, and Miami. Plus, the conference adds a yearly Pitt/Louisville game.

You can add the yearly Pitt Louisville game by moving Pitt to the Atlantic. At this point, the only 3 schools that can be moved with the least amount of disruption is Louisville, Pitt, Syracuse because they are the three most recent additions. Everyone else has been in place too long.
01-09-2016 12:46 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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RE: yet another division idea...
(01-09-2016 12:46 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  
(01-09-2016 12:16 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(01-08-2016 08:28 PM)Ragu Wrote:  
(01-08-2016 02:52 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  The only thing that makes sense right now is to swap Boston College or Syracuse for Pitt. BC and Syracuse need to be split for travel and competitiveness.

Syracuse for va tech swap is the one that makes sense

Yeah I've mentioned this before to mainly deaf ears. The risks include a possible title game rematch, albeit rare. VaTech has more history with Wake (their closest opponent), NC State, and FSU than UNC, Duke, and Miami. Plus, the conference adds a yearly Pitt/Louisville game.

You can add the yearly Pitt Louisville game by moving Pitt to the Atlantic. At this point, the only 3 schools that can be moved with the least amount of disruption is Louisville, Pitt, Syracuse because they are the three most recent additions. Everyone else has been in place too long.

That's only true if you assume those schools spent the last 100 years playing in a vacuum.
01-09-2016 01:30 PM
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TexanMark Offline
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RE: yet another division idea...
(01-09-2016 12:46 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  
(01-09-2016 12:16 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(01-08-2016 08:28 PM)Ragu Wrote:  
(01-08-2016 02:52 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  The only thing that makes sense right now is to swap Boston College or Syracuse for Pitt. BC and Syracuse need to be split for travel and competitiveness.

Syracuse for va tech swap is the one that makes sense

Yeah I've mentioned this before to mainly deaf ears. The risks include a possible title game rematch, albeit rare. VaTech has more history with Wake (their closest opponent), NC State, and FSU than UNC, Duke, and Miami. Plus, the conference adds a yearly Pitt/Louisville game.

You can add the yearly Pitt Louisville game by moving Pitt to the Atlantic. At this point, the only 3 schools that can be moved with the least amount of disruption is Louisville, Pitt, Syracuse because they are the three most recent additions. Everyone else has been in place too long.

Heck you could move BC and Miami...they have history with the others mentioned above.
01-09-2016 01:36 PM
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jaminandjachin Offline
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RE: yet another division idea...
If BC and Miami ever moved it would be to create a North/South alignment. Not happening unless Notre Dame is involved.

BC, Miami, and VT have been in the league 10 years or more now. That's the equivalent of being grandfathered in. Louisville, Syracuse, and Pitt are only a handful of years in. If someone moves, you're not causing any issues because they're still kinda "new".

The more we discussed this you start to realize that the divisions aren't changing. You'll never get enough consensus.
01-09-2016 01:48 PM
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esayem Online
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RE: yet another division idea...
Virginia Tech may actually prefer the Atlantic. Has anyone ever asked?
01-09-2016 01:57 PM
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jaminandjachin Offline
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RE: yet another division idea...
(01-09-2016 01:57 PM)esayem Wrote:  Virginia Tech may actually prefer the Atlantic. Has anyone ever asked?

They have been discussion division realignment for years. You would assume every scenario has come up.
01-09-2016 01:59 PM
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ULdave Offline
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RE: yet another division idea...
Just go North/South (throw Wake in North) and call it a day. The idea to "appease" anyone is a recipe for inequality that the ACC needs to get away from.
01-09-2016 04:54 PM
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