(12-13-2015 11:49 AM)k-vegasbuc Wrote:  

(12-13-2015 11:36 AM)CyberBull Wrote:  

(12-13-2015 11:02 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(12-13-2015 10:39 AM)CyberBull Wrote:  

(12-12-2015 10:19 PM)apex_pirate Wrote:  Scottie Montgomery

...seems like a glorified quality control coach. The offense starts and ends with offensive mastermind and head coach David Cutcliff.....so the success of Duke's offense is not really any real reflection of Monty's abilities.

Considering that Montgomery's name wasn't really thrown around as a rising coordinator in line for head coaching job it is really bizarre move by Compher, which is too bad b/c we really needed ECU to be good for the conference's sake, IMHO.

Return of the John Thompson Days?

you could have made that argument for Philip Montgomery, Herman, dino babers, every leech seed and like 30 other coaches

i think of any name that came up this and withers were the best 2 options
he brought a couple 4stars to duke, and its duke..he will be able to recruit..

and i could make arguments that scottie was as bad or good (depending on how you view it) as a taggart when he was hired..you hired a subpar sunbelt coach that wasnt on anyones how list..you could argue he turned around WKU or how i saw it WKU was a winning program before taggart ever came but was just transition to the fbs when he was hired and just needed time to adjust. both of their biggest strength is the ability to recruit

ive noticed a trend with you cyber you try to take jabs at teams when if you remove the usf glasses, usf is normally in the exact same boat

BTW, the difference between Montgomery and the other coaches you listed is that they were either rising coordinators who were being discussed nationally for HC jobs around the country...or standing head coaches.

I have been very supportive and excited about the AAC's ability to hire rising young coaches....until now. For example, Frost helluva of a get for UCF. Rising coordinator. Willie Fritz was an excellent hire from an always good Georgia Southern program. Houston being able to keep Herman for at least one more year....great move in stepping up the contract so middling, mid-level P5 teams can't steal him away. He may still leave if some blueblood jobs open up....but you have no control over that much like most other Division I-A schools. Houston did what it had to do....which is good for the AAC. USF extending Taggart great move....although they now need to quickly finish out contract details to keep his assistants in place. Rhule...love what Temple did and the guys' loyalty. Again, similar to Herman its going to take a 'special' job to open up for him to leave. I also think Memphis did a great job in replacing Fuentes with another rising coordinator that will build on what has been accomplished the last three seasons. Mike Norvell seemed destined to take an open PAC12 job at some point so getting him to come east was a great move to continue the Tiger's momentum.

So again....I have no idea what you are saying about a "trend" and oh btw.... it would be REALLY easy to search the early season threads for your posts doing EXACTLY what you are accusing me of doing.

Essentially what he's saying is any coordinator is going to be a risk. The main difference is that coaches like Herman and Frost were at more elite schools so naturally they are more known. There's no doubt Montgomery is not a "wow" hire but that certainly doesn't mean he can't be good. It is a big gamble but you can certainly make the case that he can be sneaky good when you see how well Duke of all places has recruited the last couple of years and supposedly, according to some Duke fans I know, he was one of their best recruiters.

The key as it is with any coach is the type of staff he puts together. My guess is him being young we probably don't have to spend a lot on him as HC so hopefully that will mean more money for assistants. I would like him to hire experienced Coordinators but we will see. I honestly wouldn't mind if he retained Kirkpatrick and Yellock but those are probably the only 2 I would keep from the current staff.

Yes. I would expect him to retain a couple..and I expect Compher already has a list for him to evaluate. Much of this whole thing dealt with some of the position coaches that Ruff put higher value on than Compher.

(12-13-2015 11:52 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I think Compher knows that Montgomery does not have a rebuilding job ahead. He just needs to recruit well and have a winning season next year. I see no reason that will not happen. He will have a nice stable of QB's and RB's next year along with a good receiving corp. He should have no problem generating offense. As long as we don't lose games after kneeling in the Victory formation and the team has some discipline on the field we will win our share with Scottie. He just has to bring in some good assistants(especially on D) and go to work. I have no doubt that the fans will like him after they get to know him. The wounded will come around over the off season and get on board by next September.

I've heard this argument a lot from ECU fans but I kind of want to caution this because even though I do believe we have good skill players our conference has gotten much better and we are going to have some question marks in the trenches where games are won and lost. Also with any new coaching staff the players have to buy in, so the thought that we can just show up and win 7 or 8 games next year in my opinion is flawed. This coaching staff will have to really coach the guys up.

Now I do agree with your initial statement, this should not be a total rebuilding job by any stretch because we do have some great players especially at the skill positions. But we have to get a lot better on defense, and certainly on special teams and run blocking. I would also love for us not to be one of the most penalized teams in the nation as well. I felt like, throughout Ruff's tenure that we were a lot of times our own worst enemy's when it came to self inflicting wounds.

I like this hire. Great potential.

(12-13-2015 12:00 PM)zfred12 Wrote:  I like this hire. Great potential.

With any unknown, there is potential... and that's an equally scary thought. That needle moves both ways. Boom or bust.

It would've been much better if ECU would have hired Dukes top basketball assistant (before Marquette did), instead of a Duke football assistant.

There is a reason why assistants at football schools are highly sought out; while assistants at basketball schools aren't so much. It's about building culture.

Perhaps Montgomery saw a little of that with the Steelers but those players are paid to play.

Norvell is just the latest in a succession of guru offensive guys under Graham (i.e. Morris, Malzahn, Norvell), and Frost was a product of the Oregon culture.

That's why multiple programs were interested in those guys. They have a relevant pattern (schematically) to guide their process. Among the best in cfb. It's the same reason Strong was so interested in Tulsa's OC. Baylor has been whooping his butt (up until they lost their QBs)

(12-13-2015 11:59 AM)k-vegasbuc Wrote:  

(12-13-2015 11:52 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I think Compher knows that Montgomery does not have a rebuilding job ahead. He just needs to recruit well and have a winning season next year. I see no reason that will not happen. He will have a nice stable of QB's and RB's next year along with a good receiving corp. He should have no problem generating offense. As long as we don't lose games after kneeling in the Victory formation and the team has some discipline on the field we will win our share with Scottie. He just has to bring in some good assistants(especially on D) and go to work. I have no doubt that the fans will like him after they get to know him. The wounded will come around over the off season and get on board by next September.

I've heard this argument a lot from ECU fans but I kind of want to caution this because even though I do believe we have good skill players our conference has gotten much better and we are going to have some question marks in the trenches where games are won and lost. Also with any new coaching staff the players have to buy in, so the thought that we can just show up and win 7 or 8 games next year in my opinion is flawed. This coaching staff will have to really coach the guys up.

Now I do agree with your initial statement, this should not be a total rebuilding job by any stretch because we do have some great players especially at the skill positions. But we have to get a lot better on defense, and certainly on special teams and run blocking. I would also love for us not to be one of the most penalized teams in the nation as well. I felt like, throughout Ruff's tenure that we were a lot of times our own worst enemy's when it came to self inflicting wounds.

But no matter how you look at the situation Scottie is in a MUCH better situation than Ruff was coming to this job. Ruff came with 30+ graduating from the previous years team and well Skip did us no flavors leaving the program with recruits. Ruff did an amazing job his first year with what he had to work with so I am thinking the expectation are going to higher for Scottie coming in because he does have a lot talent if we can hold them.

(12-13-2015 12:19 PM)PirateJeff Wrote:  

(12-13-2015 11:59 AM)k-vegasbuc Wrote:  

(12-13-2015 11:52 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I think Compher knows that Montgomery does not have a rebuilding job ahead. He just needs to recruit well and have a winning season next year. I see no reason that will not happen. He will have a nice stable of QB's and RB's next year along with a good receiving corp. He should have no problem generating offense. As long as we don't lose games after kneeling in the Victory formation and the team has some discipline on the field we will win our share with Scottie. He just has to bring in some good assistants(especially on D) and go to work. I have no doubt that the fans will like him after they get to know him. The wounded will come around over the off season and get on board by next September.

I've heard this argument a lot from ECU fans but I kind of want to caution this because even though I do believe we have good skill players our conference has gotten much better and we are going to have some question marks in the trenches where games are won and lost. Also with any new coaching staff the players have to buy in, so the thought that we can just show up and win 7 or 8 games next year in my opinion is flawed. This coaching staff will have to really coach the guys up.

Now I do agree with your initial statement, this should not be a total rebuilding job by any stretch because we do have some great players especially at the skill positions. But we have to get a lot better on defense, and certainly on special teams and run blocking. I would also love for us not to be one of the most penalized teams in the nation as well. I felt like, throughout Ruff's tenure that we were a lot of times our own worst enemy's when it came to self inflicting wounds.

But no matter how you look at the situation Scottie is in a MUCH better situation than Ruff was coming to this job. Ruff came with 30+ graduating from the previous years team and well Skip did us no flavors leaving the program with recruits. Ruff did an amazing job his first year with what he had to work with so I am thinking the expectation are going to higher for Scottie coming in because he does have a lot talent if we can hold them.

I agree that he has more to work with than Ruff. And I think the expectation should certainly be for a winning season, I'm just saying that we aren't, by default, going to have a winning season regardless of who coaches simply on talent alone. It's definitely going to take competent coaching to reach that.

Winning and recruiting at Duke is insanely hard. IMO with what he has to work with Cutcliff is doing as good as any coach in the country. Most people around here basically just assumed prior to Cut Duke would never win again.

(12-13-2015 11:25 AM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  

(12-12-2015 11:17 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  Well...he can't be worse than JT can he?

I hope the best for ECU... but lets be honest, he's a roll of the dice..

The narrative we heard right away was that ECU was looking to "upgrade" their coaching position, and was looking for a coach that would be a "Top 3" caliber AAC coach.

From where I stand, Ruff has more respect in coaching circles than Montgomery. He got snatched up as the #2 man at UVA real quick. I don't see how this is an obvious "upgrade"...

As for putting ECU in the Top 3, that remains to be seen but UCF, Memphis, and Tulane, hired 3 guys with more distinguished resumes.

ECU is exactly the type of job that should have appealed to a Fleck, Monken, Brohm, etc... (because its a step up) but those coaches didn't even get (or take) a sniff.

I don't know if Compher didn't open the wallet enough or if it was because of the dubious way the job opened up...

But, Montgomery is very green. I think Jason Phillips (former Houston assistant) has much better pedigree and Houston wouldn't even consider Phillips - and he was an All-American there..

So, judging by the kind of candidate my school would, or wouldn't consider.. ECU's standards are on the low end of the conference.

It may work... but don't forget, he'll have to be better than Rhule, Tuberville, Taggert, Frost, and Diaco, consistently.

I don't think he will be.

It's a reach that ECU should have never had to take.

Good luck.

Everybody is an expert when it comes to posting on a message board.

When was Ruff gonna ever be better than that list? The answer is never.

(12-13-2015 12:34 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(12-13-2015 11:25 AM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  

(12-12-2015 11:17 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  Well...he can't be worse than JT can he?

I hope the best for ECU... but lets be honest, he's a roll of the dice..

The narrative we heard right away was that ECU was looking to "upgrade" their coaching position, and was looking for a coach that would be a "Top 3" caliber AAC coach.

From where I stand, Ruff has more respect in coaching circles than Montgomery. He got snatched up as the #2 man at UVA real quick. I don't see how this is an obvious "upgrade"...

As for putting ECU in the Top 3, that remains to be seen but UCF, Memphis, and Tulane, hired 3 guys with more distinguished resumes.

ECU is exactly the type of job that should have appealed to a Fleck, Monken, Brohm, etc... (because its a step up) but those coaches didn't even get (or take) a sniff.

I don't know if Compher didn't open the wallet enough or if it was because of the dubious way the job opened up...

But, Montgomery is very green. I think Jason Phillips (former Houston assistant) has much better pedigree and Houston wouldn't even consider Phillips - and he was an All-American there..

So, judging by the kind of candidate my school would, or wouldn't consider.. ECU's standards are on the low end of the conference.

It may work... but don't forget, he'll have to be better than Rhule, Tuberville, Taggert, Frost, and Diaco, consistently.

I don't think he will be.

It's a reach that ECU should have never had to take.

Good luck.

Everybody is an expert when it comes to posting on a message board.

I'm glad you are happy because I have been there. We'll see if he beats Rhule, Tuberville, Taggert, Frost, and Diaco, consistently.

(12-13-2015 12:34 PM)pirates4lyfe Wrote:  Winning and recruiting at Duke is insanely hard. IMO with what he has to work with Cutcliff is doing as good as any coach in the country. Most people around here basically just assumed prior to Cut Duke would never win again.

I agree, a OC at Duke is not going to get the national recognition that a OC from Oregon or Arizona State will get. Those schools are a known commodity that have huge success in their histories. Duke is a program that most people on the national scale don't really recognize other than they've had a recent uptick the last few years. People from the region that have witnessed the irrelevance of Duke for the better part of the last, let's say 50 years realize just how special Cutcliffe and this staff have been to Duke. The fact that their current recruiting class is rated just 2 spots behind Oregon and 1 spot behind Arizona State is telling. It's also rated ahead of UNC and Clemson for some perspective. It's amazing what they've done there just to get to this point where they are now expecting to win 7 or 8 games a year.

(12-13-2015 12:36 PM)pirates4lyfe Wrote:  When was Ruff gonna ever be better than that list? The answer is never.

Perhaps.

I thought ECU would finish in the Top 1/3rd of the conference next year, but he may have disappointed.. We wont know that now.

I just think he's gotten a lot of flack considering what he had to deal with at this juncture in ECU's history. Taking over a depleted roster with barely any time to scrape a recruiting class together (while implementing a new system); and then moving to a tougher conference, which required better players as well. Let's not forget being without his top QBs this year.

Ruffs wins over the top programs in your region is nothing short of impressive, and if Montgomery can accomplish that then I'll be impressed with him.

He'll probably lose to some hail Mary's and (like Ruff) he'll likely complete a few hail marys too. That's just college football. During UCF's back-to-back run, George O'Leary won MANY games that the other coaching staff had in their back pocket. (just ask Greg Ward Jr). They happen. I think Ruffs record is being judged without any respect to context (i.e. the tides of college football)

When's the presser?


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(12-13-2015 08:24 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  The only sure thing is that this is 100% on Compher. I tossed Montgomerys name out last week because I think that's the best we can do with the situation Compher created. I like that he's local, had a good HC to learn from, he's young and can recruit, and you know he's going to put 100% in his first HC job to try to make a name for himself.
I honestly don't think Compher could have made a big name hire after getting rid of Ruff the way he did and for the reasons he did. I am a little worried if this is a money thing. Does ECU have financial troubles in the athletic department that we aren't aware of?

Didn't have the money for Chizik or Hoke assistants.

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(12-13-2015 12:38 PM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  

(12-13-2015 12:34 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(12-13-2015 11:25 AM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  

(12-12-2015 11:17 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  Well...he can't be worse than JT can he?

I hope the best for ECU... but lets be honest, he's a roll of the dice..

The narrative we heard right away was that ECU was looking to "upgrade" their coaching position, and was looking for a coach that would be a "Top 3" caliber AAC coach.

From where I stand, Ruff has more respect in coaching circles than Montgomery. He got snatched up as the #2 man at UVA real quick. I don't see how this is an obvious "upgrade"...

As for putting ECU in the Top 3, that remains to be seen but UCF, Memphis, and Tulane, hired 3 guys with more distinguished resumes.

ECU is exactly the type of job that should have appealed to a Fleck, Monken, Brohm, etc... (because its a step up) but those coaches didn't even get (or take) a sniff.

I don't know if Compher didn't open the wallet enough or if it was because of the dubious way the job opened up...

But, Montgomery is very green. I think Jason Phillips (former Houston assistant) has much better pedigree and Houston wouldn't even consider Phillips - and he was an All-American there..

So, judging by the kind of candidate my school would, or wouldn't consider.. ECU's standards are on the low end of the conference.

It may work... but don't forget, he'll have to be better than Rhule, Tuberville, Taggert, Frost, and Diaco, consistently.

I don't think he will be.

It's a reach that ECU should have never had to take.

Good luck.

Everybody is an expert when it comes to posting on a message board.

I'm glad you are happy because I have been there. We'll see if he beats Rhule, Tuberville, Taggert, Frost, and Diaco, consistently.

It isn't a matter of being happy or disappointed. It is that you (and a lot of others) are posting based on limited knowledge, partial information and broad assumptions. You (and lots of others) are presenting as if you are an expert with all the knowledge, information and clear vision. But that is the nature of a message board.

I'm

(12-13-2015 12:46 PM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  

(12-13-2015 12:36 PM)pirates4lyfe Wrote:  When was Ruff gonna ever be better than that list? The answer is never.

Perhaps.

I thought ECU would finish in the Top 1/3rd of the conference next year, but he may have disappointed.. We wont know that now.

I just think he's gotten a lot of flack considering what he had to deal with at this juncture in ECU's history. Taking over a depleted roster with barely any time to scrape a recruiting class together (while implementing a new system); and then moving to a tougher conference, which required better players as well. Let's not forget being without his top QBs this year.

Ruffs wins over the top programs in your region is nothing short of impressive, and if Montgomery can accomplish that then I'll be impressed with him.

He'll probably lose to some hail Mary's and (like Ruff) he'll likely complete a few hail marys too. That's just college football. During UCF's back-to-back run, George O'Leary won MANY games that the other coaching staff had in their back pocket. (just ask Greg Ward Jr). They happen. I think Ruffs record is being judged without any respect to context (i.e. the tides of college football)

The problem is Ruff didn't win his fair share of these close late games, in fact his teams found ways to lose almost all of them. That's why he's gone. If he had won even 1/3 of the games that were tied or within one score either way late in the 4th he'd have been fine. Only game he won like that in the last 2 seasons was VT and we were up 21-0 and should have blown them out. Just this year BYU, Temple, USF, and Cincy were all either tied or ECU lead with 5 minutes to go and lost all of them.

I think this will be a good hire. Seems like a very Holtz type hire with him being an OC under a legendary coach.

Since Logan:

DC (HORRIBLE)
OC (Successful)
DC (Depends who you ask so let's go with average)
OC (TBD)

Anyone else seeing a trend here?


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(12-13-2015 12:56 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(12-13-2015 08:24 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  The only sure thing is that this is 100% on Compher. I tossed Montgomerys name out last week because I think that's the best we can do with the situation Compher created. I like that he's local, had a good HC to learn from, he's young and can recruit, and you know he's going to put 100% in his first HC job to try to make a name for himself.
I honestly don't think Compher could have made a big name hire after getting rid of Ruff the way he did and for the reasons he did. I am a little worried if this is a money thing. Does ECU have financial troubles in the athletic department that we aren't aware of?

Didn't have the money for Chizik or Hoke assistants.

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I think that's the bottom line. As much as people want to blame Compher for not giving raises or funds unfortunately that's on the Alumni and donor's. So if we want to hire big names then we have to give more it's that simple. Our athletic budget is one of the smaller ones in the conference as well. We really need to add those luxury boxes as that should help but our alumni are really going to have to give if we want to be where we want to be. It would also help if we would get more support out of our other revenue sport in basketball so that we can grow financially.

(12-13-2015 12:59 PM)pirates4lyfe Wrote:  I'm

(12-13-2015 12:46 PM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  

(12-13-2015 12:36 PM)pirates4lyfe Wrote:  When was Ruff gonna ever be better than that list? The answer is never.

Perhaps.

I thought ECU would finish in the Top 1/3rd of the conference next year, but he may have disappointed.. We wont know that now.

I just think he's gotten a lot of flack considering what he had to deal with at this juncture in ECU's history. Taking over a depleted roster with barely any time to scrape a recruiting class together (while implementing a new system); and then moving to a tougher conference, which required better players as well. Let's not forget being without his top QBs this year.

Ruffs wins over the top programs in your region is nothing short of impressive, and if Montgomery can accomplish that then I'll be impressed with him.

He'll probably lose to some hail Mary's and (like Ruff) he'll likely complete a few hail marys too. That's just college football. During UCF's back-to-back run, George O'Leary won MANY games that the other coaching staff had in their back pocket. (just ask Greg Ward Jr). They happen. I think Ruffs record is being judged without any respect to context (i.e. the tides of college football)

The problem is Ruff didn't win his fair share of these close late games, in fact his teams found ways to lose almost all of them. That's why he's gone. If he had won even 1/3 of the games that were tied or within one score either way late in the 4th he'd have been fine. Only game he won like that in the last 2 seasons was VT and we were up 21-0 and should have blown them out. Just this year BYU, Temple, USF, and Cincy were all either tied or ECU lead with 5 minutes to go and lost all of them.

If he had been 9-3 a LOT of his critics like me would've quieted down. Instead 5-7 with the same mistakes happening over and over.


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(12-13-2015 11:25 AM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  

(12-12-2015 11:17 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  Well...he can't be worse than JT can he?

I hope the best for ECU... but lets be honest, he's a roll of the dice..

The narrative we heard right away was that ECU was looking to "upgrade" their coaching position, and was looking for a coach that would be a "Top 3" caliber AAC coach.

From where I stand, Ruff has more respect in coaching circles than Montgomery. He got snatched up as the #2 man at UVA real quick. I don't see how this is an obvious "upgrade"...

As for putting ECU in the Top 3, that remains to be seen but UCF, Memphis, and Tulane, hired 3 guys with more distinguished resumes.

ECU is exactly the type of job that should have appealed to a Fleck, Monken, Brohm, etc... (because its a step up) but those coaches didn't even get (or take) a sniff.

I don't know if Compher didn't open the wallet enough or if it was because of the dubious way the job opened up...

But, Montgomery is very green. I think Jason Phillips (former Houston assistant) has much better pedigree and Houston wouldn't even consider Phillips - and he was an All-American there..

So, judging by the kind of candidate my school would, or wouldn't consider.. ECU's standards are on the low end of the conference.

It may work... but don't forget, he'll have to be better than Rhule, Tuberville, Taggert, Frost, and Diaco, consistently.

I don't think he will be.

It's a reach that ECU should have never had to take.

Good luck.

Houston has a Much larger budget bolstered by 40k students and an oil industry. ECU is in a poor area comparibly.

Fwiw, We did contact some of those guys. We didn't have the money for the staff certain coaches wanted.

Glad Houston was able to retain Herman. There's no way we could have done that and I have already stated it.

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