(12-10-2015 07:21 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(12-10-2015 02:28 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(12-10-2015 01:37 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  2009-2013 got MM fired. Only making the playoffs once in those 5 seasons. 33 wins. Thats an avg of 6.6 wins per season. Reported by press articles when he was fired his base salary was 222k. Not counting the incentives that brought it to around 250k? do the math (222k/6.6 wins per season) = about 34k per win.

Withers 9 wins in each of his 1st 2 seasons. Salary reported when he was hired 325k base. Not counting the incentives which brings it to 350k? do the math (325k/9 wins per season = about 36k per win.

Point is for what Withers is getting paid, 9 wins and 1 and done in the playoffs isn't enough. When you're a I-AA HC getting paid basically a low G-5 salary, with G-5 facilities, charging G-5 prices, the MINIMUM should be 10 wins and qtrfinals. Maybe not every season, but most (4 out of 5). With JMU's circumstances B grade for me normally would be at least 10 wins/qtrfinals. A grade would be 11+ wins, at least semis..Don't think that's unreasonable..

You got to be kidding right....anything less than 11 wins and semi is not an 'A', wow!!! Well given your yearly unrealistic expectations I now see why you are rarely satisfied.

You give me 9+ wins in the regular season and that is a very good year. You ask pretty much anyone but BDK back in July and say, what do you think about a 9 win regular season and I guarantee you they take it. Sure more wins are nice but a 9 win season is very good. Sure be disappointed in the playoff loss but that does not discount the entire season and how one should feel about the team's season. Anything you get in the playoffs is gravy, all the teams are good and there is no shame in losing to any of them.

Then cut the HC's salary to 200k, cut ticket prices and giving levels by 1/3rd to 1/2, and go back to a 15k stadium.

With G5 coaches's salary, a G5 stadium, charging G5 prices, the yeah to get an "A" grade (A as in outstanding) then should be the semis.

And if you asked pretty much anyone if they'd take another 1 and done in tbe playoffs, losing to Colgate at home they wouldn't...

Despite your claim to the contrary, given JMU's current situation, expecting at least the quarterfinals almost every season isn't unrealistic expectations..

I think I just found out who your are... Are you Jeff Compher? Now I can understand why Ruffin McNeill got fired. If your not, you and him should meet because both of you have incredibly unrealistic expectations for your teams.

(12-10-2015 09:52 PM)CISDuke2014 Wrote:  

(12-10-2015 07:21 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(12-10-2015 02:28 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(12-10-2015 01:37 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  2009-2013 got MM fired. Only making the playoffs once in those 5 seasons. 33 wins. Thats an avg of 6.6 wins per season. Reported by press articles when he was fired his base salary was 222k. Not counting the incentives that brought it to around 250k? do the math (222k/6.6 wins per season) = about 34k per win.

Withers 9 wins in each of his 1st 2 seasons. Salary reported when he was hired 325k base. Not counting the incentives which brings it to 350k? do the math (325k/9 wins per season = about 36k per win.

Point is for what Withers is getting paid, 9 wins and 1 and done in the playoffs isn't enough. When you're a I-AA HC getting paid basically a low G-5 salary, with G-5 facilities, charging G-5 prices, the MINIMUM should be 10 wins and qtrfinals. Maybe not every season, but most (4 out of 5). With JMU's circumstances B grade for me normally would be at least 10 wins/qtrfinals. A grade would be 11+ wins, at least semis..Don't think that's unreasonable..

You got to be kidding right....anything less than 11 wins and semi is not an 'A', wow!!! Well given your yearly unrealistic expectations I now see why you are rarely satisfied.

You give me 9+ wins in the regular season and that is a very good year. You ask pretty much anyone but BDK back in July and say, what do you think about a 9 win regular season and I guarantee you they take it. Sure more wins are nice but a 9 win season is very good. Sure be disappointed in the playoff loss but that does not discount the entire season and how one should feel about the team's season. Anything you get in the playoffs is gravy, all the teams are good and there is no shame in losing to any of them.

Then cut the HC's salary to 200k, cut ticket prices and giving levels by 1/3rd to 1/2, and go back to a 15k stadium.

With G5 coaches's salary, a G5 stadium, charging G5 prices, the yeah to get an "A" grade (A as in outstanding) then should be the semis.

And if you asked pretty much anyone if they'd take another 1 and done in tbe playoffs, losing to Colgate at home they wouldn't...

Despite your claim to the contrary, given JMU's current situation, expecting at least the quarterfinals almost every season isn't unrealistic expectations..

I think I just found out who your are... Are you Jeff Compher? Now I can understand why Ruffin McNeill got fired. If your not, you and him should meet because both of you have incredibly unrealistic expectations for your teams.

There's only about 90 teams, only 60+ full scholly, competing for 24 playoff spots. Given that and JMU's near tops in I-AA G-5ish stadium, facilities, attendance, coaches salary, prices, talent, budget:
1. Regardless of record against a weak OOC and weakened CAA, Is it unreasonable to expect JMU to do better than 0-3 vs playoff teams over 1 season (and 1-5 over 2 seasons)? Yes or No?
2. Is it unreasonable to expect JMU to do more than simply make a 24 team playoff field and win a round of 24 or 16 game while favored at home? Yes or No?
3. Is it unreasonable to expect JMU to make at least the quarterfinals most seasons. Yes or No?

(12-11-2015 07:05 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(12-10-2015 09:52 PM)CISDuke2014 Wrote:  

(12-10-2015 07:21 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(12-10-2015 02:28 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(12-10-2015 01:37 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  2009-2013 got MM fired. Only making the playoffs once in those 5 seasons. 33 wins. Thats an avg of 6.6 wins per season. Reported by press articles when he was fired his base salary was 222k. Not counting the incentives that brought it to around 250k? do the math (222k/6.6 wins per season) = about 34k per win.

Withers 9 wins in each of his 1st 2 seasons. Salary reported when he was hired 325k base. Not counting the incentives which brings it to 350k? do the math (325k/9 wins per season = about 36k per win.

Point is for what Withers is getting paid, 9 wins and 1 and done in the playoffs isn't enough. When you're a I-AA HC getting paid basically a low G-5 salary, with G-5 facilities, charging G-5 prices, the MINIMUM should be 10 wins and qtrfinals. Maybe not every season, but most (4 out of 5). With JMU's circumstances B grade for me normally would be at least 10 wins/qtrfinals. A grade would be 11+ wins, at least semis..Don't think that's unreasonable..

You got to be kidding right....anything less than 11 wins and semi is not an 'A', wow!!! Well given your yearly unrealistic expectations I now see why you are rarely satisfied.

You give me 9+ wins in the regular season and that is a very good year. You ask pretty much anyone but BDK back in July and say, what do you think about a 9 win regular season and I guarantee you they take it. Sure more wins are nice but a 9 win season is very good. Sure be disappointed in the playoff loss but that does not discount the entire season and how one should feel about the team's season. Anything you get in the playoffs is gravy, all the teams are good and there is no shame in losing to any of them.

Then cut the HC's salary to 200k, cut ticket prices and giving levels by 1/3rd to 1/2, and go back to a 15k stadium.

With G5 coaches's salary, a G5 stadium, charging G5 prices, the yeah to get an "A" grade (A as in outstanding) then should be the semis.

And if you asked pretty much anyone if they'd take another 1 and done in tbe playoffs, losing to Colgate at home they wouldn't...

Despite your claim to the contrary, given JMU's current situation, expecting at least the quarterfinals almost every season isn't unrealistic expectations..

I think I just found out who your are... Are you Jeff Compher? Now I can understand why Ruffin McNeill got fired. If your not, you and him should meet because both of you have incredibly unrealistic expectations for your teams.

There's only about 90 teams, only 60+ full scholly, competing for 24 playoff spots. Given that and JMU's near tops in I-AA G-5ish stadium, facilities, attendance, coaches salary, prices, talent, budget:
1. Regardless of record against a weak OOC and weakened CAA, Is it unreasonable to expect JMU to do better than 0-3 vs playoff teams over 1 season (and 1-5 over 2 seasons)? Yes or No?
2. Is it unreasonable to expect JMU to do more than simply make a 24 team playoff field and win a round of 24 or 16 game while favored at home? Yes or No?
3. Is it unreasonable to expect JMU to make at least the quarterfinals most seasons. Yes or No?

It is unreasonable to expect 10+ wins every season unless you are Alabama. It is disappointing that JMU did not beat Colgate, yes, but they are a good team and played better than we did.....when you are in the playoffs, playing other good teams......if you lose the turnover game you generally lose. The ball did not bounce our way, that's all. If 3 kids catch balls (ko/punt/int) we win or if we catch 2 of 3 we win. The pointy ball did not bounce our way.

Just b/c you spend more money does not make you better. If that were the case the Yankees/RedSox/Dodgers would win every World Series and the Redskins would be dominant under Dan Snyder.

Spending gives a program certain advantages but is no guarantee of conference and national titles. These are still 18-23 year old kids/young men playing these games.

I am not about the declare the entire season a failure b/c we got a bye #5 national seed and then got upset in the first round of the playoffs.

(12-11-2015 08:50 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(12-11-2015 07:05 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(12-10-2015 09:52 PM)CISDuke2014 Wrote:  

(12-10-2015 07:21 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(12-10-2015 02:28 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  You got to be kidding right....anything less than 11 wins and semi is not an 'A', wow!!! Well given your yearly unrealistic expectations I now see why you are rarely satisfied.

You give me 9+ wins in the regular season and that is a very good year. You ask pretty much anyone but BDK back in July and say, what do you think about a 9 win regular season and I guarantee you they take it. Sure more wins are nice but a 9 win season is very good. Sure be disappointed in the playoff loss but that does not discount the entire season and how one should feel about the team's season. Anything you get in the playoffs is gravy, all the teams are good and there is no shame in losing to any of them.

Then cut the HC's salary to 200k, cut ticket prices and giving levels by 1/3rd to 1/2, and go back to a 15k stadium.

With G5 coaches's salary, a G5 stadium, charging G5 prices, the yeah to get an "A" grade (A as in outstanding) then should be the semis.

And if you asked pretty much anyone if they'd take another 1 and done in tbe playoffs, losing to Colgate at home they wouldn't...

Despite your claim to the contrary, given JMU's current situation, expecting at least the quarterfinals almost every season isn't unrealistic expectations..

I think I just found out who your are... Are you Jeff Compher? Now I can understand why Ruffin McNeill got fired. If your not, you and him should meet because both of you have incredibly unrealistic expectations for your teams.

There's only about 90 teams, only 60+ full scholly, competing for 24 playoff spots. Given that and JMU's near tops in I-AA G-5ish stadium, facilities, attendance, coaches salary, prices, talent, budget:
1. Regardless of record against a weak OOC and weakened CAA, Is it unreasonable to expect JMU to do better than 0-3 vs playoff teams over 1 season (and 1-5 over 2 seasons)? Yes or No?
2. Is it unreasonable to expect JMU to do more than simply make a 24 team playoff field and win a round of 24 or 16 game while favored at home? Yes or No?
3. Is it unreasonable to expect JMU to make at least the quarterfinals most seasons. Yes or No?

It is unreasonable to expect 10+ wins every season unless you are Alabama. It is disappointing that JMU did not beat Colgate, yes, but they are a good team and played better than we did.....when you are in the playoffs, playing other good teams......if you lose the turnover game you generally lose. The ball did not bounce our way, that's all. If 3 kids catch balls (ko/punt/int) we win or if we catch 2 of 3 we win. The pointy ball did not bounce our way.

Just b/c you spend more money does not make you better. If that were the case the Yankees/RedSox/Dodgers would win every World Series and the Redskins would be dominant under Dan Snyder.

Spending gives a program certain advantages but is no guarantee of conference and national titles. These are still 18-23 year old kids/young men playing these games.

I am not about the declare the entire season a failure b/c we got a bye #5 national seed and then got upset in the first round of the playoffs.

I think the schedule sets the expectations , and with VL at the helm they were really high this year.

(12-11-2015 07:05 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(12-10-2015 09:52 PM)CISDuke2014 Wrote:  

(12-10-2015 07:21 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(12-10-2015 02:28 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(12-10-2015 01:37 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  2009-2013 got MM fired. Only making the playoffs once in those 5 seasons. 33 wins. Thats an avg of 6.6 wins per season. Reported by press articles when he was fired his base salary was 222k. Not counting the incentives that brought it to around 250k? do the math (222k/6.6 wins per season) = about 34k per win.

Withers 9 wins in each of his 1st 2 seasons. Salary reported when he was hired 325k base. Not counting the incentives which brings it to 350k? do the math (325k/9 wins per season = about 36k per win.

Point is for what Withers is getting paid, 9 wins and 1 and done in the playoffs isn't enough. When you're a I-AA HC getting paid basically a low G-5 salary, with G-5 facilities, charging G-5 prices, the MINIMUM should be 10 wins and qtrfinals. Maybe not every season, but most (4 out of 5). With JMU's circumstances B grade for me normally would be at least 10 wins/qtrfinals. A grade would be 11+ wins, at least semis..Don't think that's unreasonable..

You got to be kidding right....anything less than 11 wins and semi is not an 'A', wow!!! Well given your yearly unrealistic expectations I now see why you are rarely satisfied.

You give me 9+ wins in the regular season and that is a very good year. You ask pretty much anyone but BDK back in July and say, what do you think about a 9 win regular season and I guarantee you they take it. Sure more wins are nice but a 9 win season is very good. Sure be disappointed in the playoff loss but that does not discount the entire season and how one should feel about the team's season. Anything you get in the playoffs is gravy, all the teams are good and there is no shame in losing to any of them.

Then cut the HC's salary to 200k, cut ticket prices and giving levels by 1/3rd to 1/2, and go back to a 15k stadium.

With G5 coaches's salary, a G5 stadium, charging G5 prices, the yeah to get an "A" grade (A as in outstanding) then should be the semis.

And if you asked pretty much anyone if they'd take another 1 and done in tbe playoffs, losing to Colgate at home they wouldn't...

Despite your claim to the contrary, given JMU's current situation, expecting at least the quarterfinals almost every season isn't unrealistic expectations..

I think I just found out who your are... Are you Jeff Compher? Now I can understand why Ruffin McNeill got fired. If your not, you and him should meet because both of you have incredibly unrealistic expectations for your teams.

There's only about 90 teams, only 60+ full scholly, competing for 24 playoff spots. Given that and JMU's near tops in I-AA G-5ish stadium, facilities, attendance, coaches salary, prices, talent, budget:
1. Regardless of record against a weak OOC and weakened CAA, Is it unreasonable to expect JMU to do better than 0-3 vs playoff teams over 1 season (and 1-5 over 2 seasons)? Yes or No?
2. Is it unreasonable to expect JMU to do more than simply make a 24 team playoff field and win a round of 24 or 16 game while favored at home? Yes or No?
3. Is it unreasonable to expect JMU to make at least the quarterfinals most seasons. Yes or No?

Earlier, you were saying anything less then 11 wins and semis would not get an A grade out of you. That's practically saying we should be the Ohio State/Alabama of FCS. Yes that is very unrealistic.

Now you don't mention an overall record at all but to answer:

1. No that is not unrealistic in my eyes. In oorder to make the playoffs we must compete and win against those type of teams. 2 or 3 wins and I would've been happy.

2. Yes and No. JMU should make the playoffs about 70-75% of the time, so that I agree with you on. I would say winning at least one playoff game 50% of the time.

3. YES it is unrealistic to expect a team to make the quarters every or most years. I say this would be the equivalent of ECU making a New Year's Six bowl every year AIN'T HAPPENING.

(12-11-2015 08:50 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(12-11-2015 07:05 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(12-10-2015 09:52 PM)CISDuke2014 Wrote:  

(12-10-2015 07:21 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(12-10-2015 02:28 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  You got to be kidding right....anything less than 11 wins and semi is not an 'A', wow!!! Well given your yearly unrealistic expectations I now see why you are rarely satisfied.

You give me 9+ wins in the regular season and that is a very good year. You ask pretty much anyone but BDK back in July and say, what do you think about a 9 win regular season and I guarantee you they take it. Sure more wins are nice but a 9 win season is very good. Sure be disappointed in the playoff loss but that does not discount the entire season and how one should feel about the team's season. Anything you get in the playoffs is gravy, all the teams are good and there is no shame in losing to any of them.

Then cut the HC's salary to 200k, cut ticket prices and giving levels by 1/3rd to 1/2, and go back to a 15k stadium.

With G5 coaches's salary, a G5 stadium, charging G5 prices, the yeah to get an "A" grade (A as in outstanding) then should be the semis.

And if you asked pretty much anyone if they'd take another 1 and done in tbe playoffs, losing to Colgate at home they wouldn't...

Despite your claim to the contrary, given JMU's current situation, expecting at least the quarterfinals almost every season isn't unrealistic expectations..

I think I just found out who your are... Are you Jeff Compher? Now I can understand why Ruffin McNeill got fired. If your not, you and him should meet because both of you have incredibly unrealistic expectations for your teams.

There's only about 90 teams, only 60+ full scholly, competing for 24 playoff spots. Given that and JMU's near tops in I-AA G-5ish stadium, facilities, attendance, coaches salary, prices, talent, budget:
1. Regardless of record against a weak OOC and weakened CAA, Is it unreasonable to expect JMU to do better than 0-3 vs playoff teams over 1 season (and 1-5 over 2 seasons)? Yes or No?
2. Is it unreasonable to expect JMU to do more than simply make a 24 team playoff field and win a round of 24 or 16 game while favored at home? Yes or No?
3. Is it unreasonable to expect JMU to make at least the quarterfinals most seasons. Yes or No?

It is unreasonable to expect 10+ wins every season unless you are Alabama. It is disappointing that JMU did not beat Colgate, yes, but they are a good team and played better than we did.....when you are in the playoffs, playing other good teams......if you lose the turnover game you generally lose. The ball did not bounce our way, that's all. If 3 kids catch balls (ko/punt/int) we win or if we catch 2 of 3 we win. The pointy ball did not bounce our way.

Just b/c you spend more money does not make you better. If that were the case the Yankees/RedSox/Dodgers would win every World Series and the Redskins would be dominant under Dan Snyder.

Spending gives a program certain advantages but is no guarantee of conference and national titles. These are still 18-23 year old kids/young men playing these games.

I am not about the declare the entire season a failure b/c we got a bye #5 national seed and then got upset in the first round of the playoffs.

With an 11 or 12 game season + 2-3 playoff games (which would be winning 1-2) that's 13-15 games. With JMU's situation becoming a I-AA powerhouse in a weakened CAA with a weak OOC schedule winning 10 of 13-15 games and making the qtrfinals most seasons isn't unrealistic. (Could make the qtrs with 9 wins but not as likely).

I'm not expecting JMU to pull an NDSU making and winning 4 straight NC. But 4 straight qtrfinals isn't unreasonable. Heck, making 3 out of 4 would be good.

Who called the season a failure? I said in a long winded way on the grade the season thread A- for regular season, F for playoffs, C/C- overall then + 1 grade extra for Gameday, B- overall.

(12-11-2015 01:45 PM)CISDuke2014 Wrote:  

(12-11-2015 07:05 AM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(12-10-2015 09:52 PM)CISDuke2014 Wrote:  

(12-10-2015 07:21 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  

(12-10-2015 02:28 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  You got to be kidding right....anything less than 11 wins and semi is not an 'A', wow!!! Well given your yearly unrealistic expectations I now see why you are rarely satisfied.

You give me 9+ wins in the regular season and that is a very good year. You ask pretty much anyone but BDK back in July and say, what do you think about a 9 win regular season and I guarantee you they take it. Sure more wins are nice but a 9 win season is very good. Sure be disappointed in the playoff loss but that does not discount the entire season and how one should feel about the team's season. Anything you get in the playoffs is gravy, all the teams are good and there is no shame in losing to any of them.

Then cut the HC's salary to 200k, cut ticket prices and giving levels by 1/3rd to 1/2, and go back to a 15k stadium.

With G5 coaches's salary, a G5 stadium, charging G5 prices, the yeah to get an "A" grade (A as in outstanding) then should be the semis.

And if you asked pretty much anyone if they'd take another 1 and done in tbe playoffs, losing to Colgate at home they wouldn't...

Despite your claim to the contrary, given JMU's current situation, expecting at least the quarterfinals almost every season isn't unrealistic expectations..

I think I just found out who your are... Are you Jeff Compher? Now I can understand why Ruffin McNeill got fired. If your not, you and him should meet because both of you have incredibly unrealistic expectations for your teams.

There's only about 90 teams, only 60+ full scholly, competing for 24 playoff spots. Given that and JMU's near tops in I-AA G-5ish stadium, facilities, attendance, coaches salary, prices, talent, budget:
1. Regardless of record against a weak OOC and weakened CAA, Is it unreasonable to expect JMU to do better than 0-3 vs playoff teams over 1 season (and 1-5 over 2 seasons)? Yes or No?
2. Is it unreasonable to expect JMU to do more than simply make a 24 team playoff field and win a round of 24 or 16 game while favored at home? Yes or No?
3. Is it unreasonable to expect JMU to make at least the quarterfinals most seasons. Yes or No?

Earlier, you were saying anything less then 11 wins and semis would not get an A grade out of you. That's practically saying we should be the Ohio State/Alabama of FCS. Yes that is very unrealistic.

Now you don't mention an overall record at all but to answer:

1. No that is not unrealistic in my eyes. In oorder to make the playoffs we must compete and win against those type of teams. 2 or 3 wins and I would've been happy.

2. Yes and No. JMU should make the playoffs about 70-75% of the time, so that I agree with you on. I would say winning at least one playoff game 50% of the time.

3. YES it is unrealistic to expect a team to make the quarters every or most years. I say this would be the equivalent of ECU making a New Year's Six bowl every year AIN'T HAPPENING.

2. Those aren't very high expectations if you only expect JMU to make a 24 team field 70-75% of the time. 70-75% of the time would be good for JMU decade ago with the then facilties, attendance, & support in a 16 team field. But not in JMU's current situation in a 24 team field. Heck, look at UNH in their dilapidated stadium & facilities have made the plays 12 straight seasons (6 in a 16 team field, 3 in a 20, and 3 in a 24).

3. NO it isn't unrealistic. JMU ISN'T the I-AA equivalent of ECU. ECU isn't in a top 3 P5 conference like JMU is in a top 3 I-AA conference. JMU is near tops in I-AA in facilities & expenditures. There's no reason why JMU shouldn't become a Top 5 I-AA power until they move up. Until JMU moves up there's no reason JMU shouldn't have a run like UNH did 04-10' or 04'-14'
04' qtrfinals
05' qtrfinals
06' qtrfinals
07' round of 16
08' qtrfinals
09' qtrfinals
10' qtrfinals
11' round of 16
12' round of 16
13' semis
14' semis
I'm not expecting JMU to become the next NDSU or even the Alabama/Ohio State of I-AA. My expectations aren't that high.
With what JMU puts into its program it should be EITHER:
1. Move Up
2. Dominate in I-AA/become a top 5 power until they move up.
There shouldn't be anything else..

Got to agree with BDK through this discussion. The FCS game has changed significantly over the past decade or so. Some powers are no longer around. There are more slots for the playoffs. I don't think its unrealistic to have the Dukes performing at a very high level, given the competition and playoff format that exist on the FCS level today. Win a National Championship every year, absolutely not, but make the playoff 8 of 10 seasons should be expected and advancing to at least the quarters 6 of 10 is not overachieving. If you don't have high expectations, well take a look at the Delaware program and see if that's what you want.