(12-06-2015 10:26 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  FWIW record vs playoff teams: 1-5
2014 VU lost
2014 RU won
2014 LU lost
2015 RU lost
2015 W&M lost
2015 Colgate lost

That is sick.

I ask myself, is our program ahead of where we would be if MM were still the HC. My answer is "probably", but only by a slim margin. Two reasons, I believe MM was tired. Second, Game Day would have never made it to JMU because we would have never played SMU, and replace that win with a win over LU, and I don't believe Game Day would have been here. We needed some signature win and SMU was just enough.

Sorry BP. I disagree with you. The program is well ahead of what it would have been. Lee never would have played for Matthews. That alone is enough.

If JMU goes 7-4 or worse next year, then I will say you are correct but Matthews would not have won more than 7 games in either of the last two years. Because of that, the program is currently better off.

(12-06-2015 10:48 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  Sorry BP. I disagree with you. The program is well ahead of what it would have been. Lee never would have played for Matthews. That alone is enough.

If JMU goes 7-4 or worse next year, then I will say you are correct but Matthews would not have won more than 7 games in either of the last two years. Because of that, the program is currently better off.

He could have easily been 7 - 0 to start the season. We would have played LU instead of SMU. I'll say that he would have had a 50% chance of beating LU about the same as EW had of beating SMU. Then he'd have won 2 of the 4 remaining season games. No Game Day but he'd have beaten Colgate. Much the same as EW, but Game Day was a huge win for JMU. People all over the country learned of JMU due to that one event.

It's promising to see we improved defensively in both categories from last season...

(12-05-2015 08:45 PM)NH/JMU Saxkow Wrote:  

(12-05-2015 08:05 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  Wow, amazing how quickly people turn on a coach. Neither Woods nor Mickey went 18-7 in their first two years. Neither of them made the playoffs in both of their first who years. In fact, No JMU coach has made the playoffs his first two years.

Withers has had one true recruiting class. He managed to make the playoffs with his back up QB. He is still building his program.

The defense did not lose the game today. It came down to three plays. A fumbled kickoff, a fumbled punt and a would be interception that turned into a tip touchdown.

Today was a disappointing loss among many disappointing losses through the years. I did not like the last fourth down play call. Schor is not the answer at QB. He is a viable back up option. Our defense needs to get better.

I am very happy with how Withers runs his program. I would say the first two years have been a success. Today was a disappointment. I am looking forward to the next class of recruits and next season.

I agree with most of what you said except for your 3rd and 4th paragraphs. The defense gave up 343 rushing yards and 463 total yards. Yes, the turnovers were what ultimately killed us...but if you take those out, it still sucks.

The specific thing that sticks out to me which I think highlights the problem: At the end of the game, once we turned the ball over on downs, Colgate only needed a first down to clinch the game. 2nd and 6 and they run to the left. A JMU defender is there about 5 yards away - but instead of closing in and going for the tackle, he waits to see which direction the runner goes and THEN makes the tackle. The runner gained 5 yards, setting up 3rd and 1 and the eventually final 1st down.

On that drive, the defense needed to have the mindset that they were in a goal-line stand with the 10 yard line acting like the endzone. The defenders had to be more aggressive, take risks, and do everything to stop the ball from even approaching the 1st down marker. The hesitation from our defender allowed the runner to gain an extra 3-4 yards, which doomed us. The coaches and captains should have emphasized that there was no difference in that situation between them gaining 10 yards versus 90 yards - either one would end the game.

As for Schor, he was 13 for 18 with 2 TDs - not too bad for a young guy. If he keeps growing, he could be something great. But we'll see...

But one good thing I noticed - how many times have we ever gone an entire game without even ONE penalty? Has that ever happened?

I did a penalty thread last offseason that I should bump with this year's stats.
I recall the 2012 game against Towson being the last game we played with no penalty called against us.
The crew yesterday was very much a "let them play" type of crew. It was equally helpful and awful at the same time. They missed many calls against both teams.

(12-06-2015 10:26 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  FWIW record vs playoff teams: 1-5
2014 VU lost
2014 RU won
2014 LU lost
2015 RU lost
2015 W&M lost
2015 Colgate lost

Yep this is where I judge him most, other than overall playoff record. He's lost five of six games against quality Fcs teams. That's WITH Vad Lee for 21 of the 25 games.

(12-07-2015 12:08 AM)Potomac Wrote:  

(12-06-2015 10:26 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  FWIW record vs playoff teams: 1-5
2014 VU lost
2014 RU won
2014 LU lost
2015 RU lost
2015 W&M lost
2015 Colgate lost

Yep this is where I judge him most, other than overall playoff record. He's lost five of six games against quality Fcs teams. That's WITH Vad Lee for 20
of the 25 games.

Am I glad we were in the playoffs? Absolutely. We were as deserving as any FCS team. However, there is no way anyone could tell if we were going to be a strong playoff contender until the RU game. We simply had not played any competition worthy of an accurate assessment of what we had. The coaches had no reason to take a hard look at our defense and what we were doing because we were blowing people away with our offense. Until we change the mentality of scheduling our way into the playoffs we will never get any better than what we just witnessed.

(12-06-2015 10:48 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  Sorry BP. I disagree with you. The program is well ahead of what it would have been. Lee never would have played for Matthews. That alone is enough.

If JMU goes 7-4 or worse next year, then I will say you are correct but Matthews would not have won more than 7 games in either of the last two years. Because of that, the program is currently better off.

That is a stretch to say, MM would have had Birdsong back as a Junior Qb , and the Offensive coord. would have been in his second year. Most of the records VL broke were Birdsongs. And the defense would have been vastly different, Dean was an all-American in MM defense , in EW's he numbers were down. That shows how different EW's scheme and personnel was. Not sure about Gameday , because VL was a great story for ESPN and a new coach and HOFER Charles Haley being inducted this summer helped since he has been around the program more with EW around. And the SMU game was a very good national win. And MM doesn't like those games but we still played them.

Also 9/10 players that were all-caa were from the previous regime, surprised more offensive lineman didn't get voted in. Fun to speak on but we will never know , football is a crazy game.

(12-07-2015 02:12 AM)Hotrod829 Wrote:  

(12-06-2015 10:48 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  Sorry BP. I disagree with you. The program is well ahead of what it would have been. Lee never would have played for Matthews. That alone is enough.

If JMU goes 7-4 or worse next year, then I will say you are correct but Matthews would not have won more than 7 games in either of the last two years. Because of that, the program is currently better off.

That is a stretch to say, MM would have had Birdsong back as a Junior Qb , and the Offensive coord. would have been in his second year. Most of the records VL broke were Birdsongs. And the defense would have been vastly different, Dean was an all-American in MM defense , in EW's he numbers were down. That shows how different EW's scheme and personnel was. Not sure about Gameday , because VL was a great story for ESPN and a new coach and HOFER Charles Haley being inducted this summer helped since he has been around the program more with EW around. And the SMU game was a very good national win. And MM doesn't like those games but we still played them.

Also 9/10 players that were all-caa were from the previous regime, surprised more offensive lineman didn't get voted in. Fun to speak on but we will never know , football is a crazy game.

HR, the reason the SMU game wouldn't have been played, is that it came together through EW and his contacts. At least that is what he lead me to believe in a private conversation. At the same time that was being negotiated, we were also in talks with University of Arkansas. We just couldn't make any dates work for both teams.

JMU FB needed a new voice and new energy- that's what Withers has provided the program. Now they need to deliver results on the field and make deep playoff runs. Even under Mickey JMU FB has never consistently made the deep playoff runs that are commensurate with what the fans think the program is capable of. As much as the game has changed and Withers is in tune with this on offense- I still think in todays college football when you play a home playoff game in front of a big crowd (bigger than typical FCS stadiums) you have to have a defense that limits big plays and makes stops. You can't be in a playoff game at home where it comes down to a final drive or play of offense. He needs to show that he can recruit playmakers on defense (linebackers like Stephon Robinson, pass rushers like Jordan Stanton) and they need bigger more stout interior lineman- that's the type of personnel on the defensive side of the ball that I would expect from JMU when they are often recruiting against mid tier FBS schools.

(12-07-2015 07:17 AM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(12-07-2015 02:12 AM)Hotrod829 Wrote:  

(12-06-2015 10:48 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  Sorry BP. I disagree with you. The program is well ahead of what it would have been. Lee never would have played for Matthews. That alone is enough.

If JMU goes 7-4 or worse next year, then I will say you are correct but Matthews would not have won more than 7 games in either of the last two years. Because of that, the program is currently better off.

That is a stretch to say, MM would have had Birdsong back as a Junior Qb , and the Offensive coord. would have been in his second year. Most of the records VL broke were Birdsongs. And the defense would have been vastly different, Dean was an all-American in MM defense , in EW's he numbers were down. That shows how different EW's scheme and personnel was. Not sure about Gameday , because VL was a great story for ESPN and a new coach and HOFER Charles Haley being inducted this summer helped since he has been around the program more with EW around. And the SMU game was a very good national win. And MM doesn't like those games but we still played them.

Also 9/10 players that were all-caa were from the previous regime, surprised more offensive lineman didn't get voted in. Fun to speak on but we will never know , football is a crazy game.

HR, the reason the SMU game wouldn't have been played, is that it came together through EW and his contacts. At least that is what he lead me to believe in a private conversation. At the same time that was being negotiated, we were also in talks with University of Arkansas. We just couldn't make any dates work for both teams.

Cool , I had no clue he was pulling strings for the schedule. EW does his best to try and give JMU a big time feel. I thought it was weird to have a HC personal assistant at the level , but Strech is bringing what he saw at OSU here and its pretty cool. And they fact that we can afford all these things are great too. Good recruits love this stuff.

(12-05-2015 05:29 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(12-05-2015 04:29 PM)WVduke05 Wrote:  We were done the second Vad went down

Only in the coaches eyes. They lost faith in the team after he went down. They started making changes. The game management was different. I will not hold players accountable for this.

Very true....I gave the play calling a pass at UD and Villanova b/c of weather, but against Colgate the play calling was brutal. Schror can throw it let him. When allowed to throw downfield good things happened. We get 1st and goal on 8.....I am confident we score and take lead (not sure we can hold it but 99% sure we score). I was ok with the 1st down run, but the runs on 2nd and 3rd down were a waste. 4th down play should have been run on 2nd/3rd/4th to some degree (how about back shoulder to ravenal on 2nd/jump ball to Domo on 3rd/back shoulder to ravenal on 4th).

(12-05-2015 06:33 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  Withers was exposed. The scheme is miserable.

The defensive scheme is awful. They should scrap everything about the current defense in the off-season.

Can anyone explain with a one-dimensional team and a bad throwing QB why JMU would not load the box with single safety and make Colgate beat us throwing the football.

(12-07-2015 08:59 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(12-05-2015 06:33 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  Withers was exposed. The scheme is miserable.

The defensive scheme is awful. They should scrap everything about the current defense in the off-season.

Can anyone explain with a one-dimensional team and a bad throwing QB why JMU would not load the box with single safety and make Colgate beat us throwing the football.

Yep. I was joking that they should play goal line defense the entire game.

(12-05-2015 08:05 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  Wow, amazing how quickly people turn on a coach. Neither Woods nor Mickey went 18-7 in their first two years. Neither of them made the playoffs in both of their first two years. In fact, No JMU coach has made the playoffs his first two years.

Withers has had one true recruiting class. He managed to make the playoffs with his back up QB. He is still building his program.

The defense did not lose the game today. It came down to three plays. A fumbled kickoff, a fumbled punt and a would be interception that turned into a tip touchdown.

Today was a disappointing loss among many disappointing losses through the years. I did not like the last fourth down play call. Schor is not the answer at QB. He is a viable back up option. Our defense needs to get better.

I am very happy with how Withers runs his program. I would say the first two years have been a success. Today was a disappointment. I am looking forward to the next class of recruits and next season.

I think Schor would be 'ok' at QB but you have to trust him and let him throw it. He was 13-18 yesterday I think and the play calling kept calling runs between the tackles into a loaded box. We have excellent talent at WR ----- USE IT!!

(12-05-2015 09:58 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  Withers either address the obvious D issues, or he will end up on the wrong side of his contract. You can't give up 500 yds of offense and win.

He has been exposed. Run right at us, that's all it takes.

Agree with you there. I cannot stand getting the ball run down your throat. At some point it has to be a change when every team we play has season best rushing days or 2 players over 100 yards. We especially struggle with a running QB. It almost looks like our guys think too much instead of just playing aggressive -- see it, hit it.

we def ran past the ball several times on sat. frustrating for sure.

But, I assure you EW is no Alex Wood. Wood was terrible. We didn't get a Vad Lee to xfer here back then, any decent QB who xfered in got moved to TE. No one came to games, certainly the players were lucky to have the minimum equipment they needed as compared to multiple uni's helmets shoes etc.

Vad Lee, 9 Wins, College Gameday = I'll take EW, we are lucky to have him. That said he needs major improvement with his bedside manner with reporters and needs to revamp the defense to something that works better than Ole'

Jimmy Moreland coming back in January will give is 2 great corners outside. Charles Tutt should be back in the fall, healthy again...move Jordan Brown to a Safety roll, and add in some D-line and LB improvement.

Really hoping we were going to get Kapri Doucet from Lackawana to continue on to JMU...he is getting interest from Arizona at this point so would be a major coup for us.

We lose 5 senior starters and have a whole bunch of folks coming back.

(12-06-2015 10:26 PM)Hotrod829 Wrote:  

(12-06-2015 09:07 AM)Dukester Wrote:  His first recruiting class seemed much better to me in performance last year. "Great recruiter", but other that Vad last year, and Tutt (who only started one game on a bad defense) - who on this team he recruited are you excited about? He says he does not believe in red-shirting so he's playing them

Also Mosley, and Steele looked pretty good early on in their careers in another scheme. They both look worse today than 2 or 3 years ago.

Tutt , wr domo, moreland , Oliver , Holloway, Sharp , two lineman with great size, Marcel ( dropped int in game) , Shor. All players who have great potential when they are Juniors and Seniors.

HR -- thanks for that list.....those are all some talented guys who should continue to develop into some pretty good players.

(12-07-2015 09:35 AM)jmusuperfan Wrote:  we def ran past the ball several times on sat. frustrating for sure.

But, I assure you EW is no Alex Wood. Wood was terrible. We didn't get a Vad Lee to xfer here back then, any decent QB who xfered in got moved to TE. No one came to games, certainly the players were lucky to have the minimum equipment they needed as compared to multiple uni's helmets shoes etc.

Vad Lee, 9 Wins, College Gameday = I'll take EW, we are lucky to have him. That said he needs major improvement with his bedside manner with reporters and needs to revamp the defense to something that works better than Ole'

Jimmy Moreland coming back in January will give is 2 great corners outside. Charles Tutt should be back in the fall, healthy again...move Jordan Brown to a Safety roll, and add in some D-line and LB improvement.

Really hoping we were going to get Kapri Doucet from Lackawana to continue on to JMU...he is getting interest from Arizona at this point so would be a major coup for us.

We lose 5 senior starters and have a whole bunch of folks coming back.

Has it been confirmed that Moreland is in fact returning to the program? I have not heard or seen that anywhere else but on this forum.

(12-07-2015 10:02 AM)NYJMUSupporter Wrote:  

(12-07-2015 09:35 AM)jmusuperfan Wrote:  we def ran past the ball several times on sat. frustrating for sure.

But, I assure you EW is no Alex Wood. Wood was terrible. We didn't get a Vad Lee to xfer here back then, any decent QB who xfered in got moved to TE. No one came to games, certainly the players were lucky to have the minimum equipment they needed as compared to multiple uni's helmets shoes etc.

Vad Lee, 9 Wins, College Gameday = I'll take EW, we are lucky to have him. That said he needs major improvement with his bedside manner with reporters and needs to revamp the defense to something that works better than Ole'

Jimmy Moreland coming back in January will give is 2 great corners outside. Charles Tutt should be back in the fall, healthy again...move Jordan Brown to a Safety roll, and add in some D-line and LB improvement.

Really hoping we were going to get Kapri Doucet from Lackawana to continue on to JMU...he is getting interest from Arizona at this point so would be a major coup for us.

We lose 5 senior starters and have a whole bunch of folks coming back.

Has it been confirmed that Moreland is in fact returning to the program? I have not heard or seen that anywhere else but on this forum.

don't think will be confirmed until Jan, Spring semester.