The team didn't lose because of youth today. They were
1- out-schemed. Withers refuses to commit additional defenders to the run. He is hard headed in this area and the team has paid the price for it.
2 - two non-contact fumbles by Cheatham and Miller. Those were back breaking and allowed Colgate to score on 20 yard "drives". It also kept them from falling behind and having to lean on the pass game. Their QB was an atrocious 8-23 and their offense was still potent because of a dominating 7 yards per rush
3- there are other smaller reasons, but those 2 allowed a team full of less talented players pull off the big upset.

Nation, you mentioned three plays that made the game. That is simply not true. If it were, then you are giving no credit to our TD that we tipped and scored on which was anything but ordinary. I could easily take a look at a lot more odd plays that went in our direction and I can assure you there were as many for us as were against us.

Frankly we should have been called for interfering with the receiver on a downfield pass close to the end of the game. The no call absolutely went our way. Whether you argue that we committed no foul doesn't matter, it was close enough that play definitely went in our favor.

I will argue with anyone all day that the end of the first half did more to derail our team than anything that happened during any play. That was totally ignorant. I might have agreed with the lack of effort to score by EW had we been on our own 20 with a minute to play but not at mid-field. That tears the soul from a team.

Another idiotic decision was early in the game we went for it on 4th and less than a yard deep in our own territory and made it by picking up 3 yards on the play. Four plays later, we had a 1.5 yards to go, we are now closer to mid-field and we punt. Why in the world would we not go for it at that point when we had just gone for it in almost the same situation a few plays earlier? The answer is EW lost his "nads" after VL went down.

One final thing, last year through the first 5 FCS games VAD went 20 of 37 (54%), 11 of 21 (52%), 23 of 43 (53%), 25 of 44 (56%), and 14 of 23 (60%). Trust me, you don't want me to list the UMD game, oh what the hell, he was 16 of 37 (43%). I can assure you Schor played at least as well as those numbers were not hard to match or beat. If you'll take a moment a go back through those in-game threads, you'll see we ripped VL apart for his performance. The difference is that the coaches never gave up on VL and they did on Schor. The end of this season sits squarely on coaching staff's shoulders.

I like many of the things EW has brought to JMU, but he's got a lot of work to do if he wants to stand above all others who have coached the purple and gold. Right now, he's just barely above average.

(12-05-2015 10:09 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  Never personally attacked Mickey. Stated the documented facts on his behavior. You had to go there didn't you?

You are a revisionist. I have followed your posts for two seasons waiting for you to eventually change your tune. You have been anti Withers from the beginning and it continues now.

I honestly don't know how Withers will do going forward. I can only judge him on his first two seasons. His record in his first two years is better than any coach in JMU history. No coach has ever made it to the playoffs in each of his first two years. He needs time to build. The Dukes were very young this year and it showed. I hate losing today but the program is in much better shape than it was pre-Withers. It is a shame you can't see that.

No other coach had a 24 team playoff field either.

-No other coach has ever inherited as much talent in his 1st 2 seasons as Withers inherited.
-No other coach has had even remotely close to the facilties in his 1st 2 seasons as Withers inherited.
-No other coach has been paid more than a fraction what Withers has been paid in his 1st 2 seasons.
-Withers is 0-2 in the games that matter. Both lost at home. Both times were heavy favorites. Once was off a bye to a team with at most 45 schollies and not near the talent of JMU. Both times was severely outcoached.

Press conference look from Withers to Matt Jones at 5:05:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DM0RHtg...e=youtu.be

(12-06-2015 12:44 AM)olddawg Wrote:  Press conference look from Withers to Matt Jones at 5:05:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DM0RHtg...e=youtu.be

While I know the questions suck, Withers really comes off as a dbag.

Sorry

(12-05-2015 05:29 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  

(12-05-2015 04:29 PM)WVduke05 Wrote:  We were done the second Vad went down

Only in the coaches eyes. They lost faith in the team after he went down. They started making changes. The game management was different. I will not hold players accountable for this.

They did? This is what I was bitching about all game, no real changes. Schor is a decent capable QB, but he ain't Vad and he isn't even Melville either. Why not a 2 back set? Schor is no running threat, yet we still run this pistol, read option, or whatever the cute name is. There is no read OPTION! Schor is not a running threat. So they key on the 1 back, and boom, it works pretty well. On the odd occasion Schor has a bit of running room he gets 3-4 yards, then is dragged down from behind. He'll never break off a 71 yd run for the EZ, and that's okay, neither will Manning or Brady, but that's what THIS offense is founded on.

This ain't that.

How about Abdullah and Johnson together in the backfield? How about Cheatham back at FB with either of those guys in an I? It makes no sense. These guys are actually college coaches and getting paid for this stuff, yet they can't go from a 3-4 where we're getting torched by a team we're supposedly giving 20 to?

We can't tackle, go watch the VU game. We can't run anymore, we're NON-dimensional. We can't cover a kick (all season). We can't fill a gap and stop an opposing QB from Colgate from running free as a bird, now, right up the gut for however many yards he may need.

WE were playing the "possession" game and THEY were scoring at will.

Will our D coordinator, turned HC ever decide to actually coach Defense?!? Perhaps how someone can actually tackle someone?

Two years now, back to back. Get in. Lay a frigging egg against what SHOULD be inferior competition. The SoCon and the Pat's...

Credit to Colgate today, there were better, and smarter, in ALL phases of the game. Wish them well.

(12-05-2015 11:08 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  You had a coed get shot because a player short changed a dealer on a pot purchase. Football players getting in a fight with fraternity brothers and many more.

Withers had three players get in trouble with the law the last two years. He dismissed them all. He is a better CEO than Mickey, which is why he is more popular with alums.

Damn, man.

Neither of these guys are responsible for the actions of stupid 18-22 YO's. Except on the field. A pot purchase? A fight? Shocker.

C'mon, Nation.

(12-06-2015 12:44 AM)olddawg Wrote:  Press conference look from Withers to Matt Jones at 5:05:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DM0RHtg...e=youtu.be

"I could explain it to you guys, but you wouldn't understand".

O.K. Bout all I need to know. I'm too stupid to know American Tackle Football, but this guy clearly has it all figured out. "D" does stand for Defense, right? Not Deflection?!?



I may be taking a break, here.

They're not all great players? Who the eff says that?

And that was just a weird look....maturity issue.

(12-05-2015 10:24 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  Is it the scheme or the players? Not sure. We all can agree that the defense can't stop even average teams.

Feel your pain. Have been asking the same question of our defensive squad. Which of us will make the change(s) more quickly?? My bet is on you guys. One of our posters suggested that our DC be fired on the bus ride home from UR. Need to hire from outside.....

(12-06-2015 05:22 AM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  They're not all great players? Who the eff says that?

And that was just a weird look....maturity issue.

The comment about the seniors was weird too. On the one hand, he had just finished praising them as a group. It seemed very genuine and from the heart. Then he threw in the quick part about " they're not all great players". I don't think he meant harm, it just seemed odd, since many were starters. Of the 11 seniors, only Taylor McNellis wasn't on the 2 deep or a special teams specialist:
Vad- great starter till hurt-enough said
Cheatham-starter-great weapon until we stopped using him after Lee's injury.
Kroll- 1st year on the 2 deep, but contributed this year when called on
Richards-solid starter
Lane- steady starter, but a little soft imho
Mosley-starter-never seemed to realize his potential but solid and a captain
Gates- starter-very big and average; hype from coming from BCS program
Jacques- unspectacular career after early hype. Respectable 2nd stringer though.
Hart- reliable long snapper
Maglio- starting kicker
McNellis- Troy transfer, never got in playing rotation

Hope the guys that were backing up these starters turn out to be better than the current group of not so great players.

(12-06-2015 08:18 AM)olddawg Wrote:  

(12-06-2015 05:22 AM)bcp_jmu Wrote:  They're not all great players? Who the eff says that?

And that was just a weird look....maturity issue.

The comment about the seniors was weird too. On the one hand, he had just finished praising them as a group. It seemed very genuine and from the heart. Then he threw in the quick part about " they're not all great players". I don't think he meant harm, it just seemed odd, since many were starters. Of the 11 seniors, only Taylor McNellis wasn't on the 2 deep or a special teams specialist:
Vad- great starter till hurt-enough said
Cheatham-starter-great weapon until we stopped using him after Lee's injury.
Kroll- 1st year on the 2 deep, but contributed this year when called on
Richards-solid starter
Lane- steady starter, but a little soft imho
Mosley-starter-never seemed to realize his potential but solid and a captain
Gates- starter-very big and average; hype from coming from BCS program
Jacques- unspectacular career after early hype. Respectable 2nd stringer though.
Hart- reliable long snapper
Maglio- starting kicker
McNellis- Troy transfer, never got in playing rotation

Hope the guys that were backing up these starters turn out to be better than the current group of not so great players.

I didn't take that comment as a slap- just saying he loved the Seniors and while some weren't starters and they all weren't "great" (i.e. Vad Lee type) players that were great teammates, ambassadors, etc. I think folks are looking to be picky of Withers if you are dinging him for that comment in the flow of a conversation. He's being realistic.

Now as far as the Matt Jones questions- it's pretty clear that Withers has some issues with Jones- he's very tough on Jones in these press conferences for whatever the reason- I give Jones credit to keep asking questions.

His first recruiting class seemed much better to me in performance last year. "Great recruiter", but other that Vad last year, and Tutt (who only started one game on a bad defense) - who on this team he recruited are you excited about? He says he does not believe in red-shirting so he's playing them

Also Mosley, and Steele looked pretty good early on in their careers in another scheme. They both look worse today than 2 or 3 years ago.

[quote='BDKJMU' pid='12756314' dateline='1449353549']
Last 4 games given up vs the run:
-305 vs RU
-234 vs W&M
-295 vs UD
-321 vs VU
-343 vs Colgate

Thats's 300 ypg (299.6) over 5 games. PATHETIC. Watching the charmin soft, swiss cheese JMU defense getting run all over week after week after week after week after week with no apparent adjustments is as frustrating as watching the 2009-2012 MM sputtering offenses in 17-13, 13-10 type losses..
[/

Agree. There is no sign of the Coach having a clue of how to improve it. He needs to become as irritated at the Defense he is responsible for as he gets with Matt Jones.

(12-06-2015 01:08 AM)JMU2004 Wrote:  

(12-06-2015 12:44 AM)olddawg Wrote:  Press conference look from Withers to Matt Jones at 5:05:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DM0RHtg...e=youtu.be

While I know the questions suck, Withers really comes off as a dbag.

Sorry

He's seriously a bag of d*icks. Needs to show some maturity and class.

Defense has been awful for two seasons. The defensive stats against Colgate would have been different had JMU not dropped a punt and kickoff giving Colgate two extra possessions. The missed interception turned Colgate TD was a six point swing. While the defensive stats would likely still have been poor, these three plays led to three Colgate touchdowns. How can any of you argue against this?

I have said in other threads that Vad covered up some real weaknesses with this team. I am not blind to this teams weaknesses and two home losses in the playoffs. I agree Withers in game decisions have been questionable at times.

You can argue good fortune and other things but still, Withers teams have won more games in his first two years than any other JMU coach. We can't deny that. What will happen next year is all speculation. We can only judge Withers on his record so far not assume failure going forward.

Look, I am not defending the obvious weaknesses. I am saying that his teams are 18-7 with two playoff appearances which is a better start than any coach in JMU history. At the end of the day, wins are the #1 thing all coaches are judged on.

I have issue with the comparison of Withers to Woods too. It seems to imply a comparison of black head coaches. Woods was 23-22 in his first four years. Matthews was 21-25. Why is the author of this thread comparing Withers to Woods? Why not Matthews or Scherer? Rip was only 13-11 his first two seasons. Matthews 14-9. Woods was 15-8.

We know that Woods took a good Scherer program and had a worse record in each of his first four years. After four years, it was time to move on from him. Withers has actually had a better record in year two than year one. Again, why the comparison to Woods? Maybe the author can explain.

(12-06-2015 09:08 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  Defense has been awful for two seasons. The defensive stats against Colgate would have been different had JMU not dropped a punt and kickoff giving Colgate two extra possessions. The missed interception turned Colgate TD was a six point swing. While the defensive stats would likely still have been poor, these three plays led to three Colgate touchdowns. How can any of you argue against this?

The only defensive stats that would have been different would have been the score. The average yards per carry (6.9) and average yards per play (6.3) wold have been off the charts still. I could argue that the total yardage might have been different if JMU didn't give them the short fields and they were eventually stopped by the goal line.

I am seriously having nightmares about the defense. I was at the Richmond and Colgate games and watched the WM game on TV. Unfortunately these were the only games I was able to drop everything and watch either by being there or carving out a few hours on the cough. What I saw has scarred me for a while. An average of 547 yards of total offense by the opponent. 49 points per game average and a 7.2 average yards per play.

I really am having a hard time grasping how the defense can be this bad. I have never seen anything like it.

The scheme is not working......

(12-06-2015 09:07 AM)Dukester Wrote:  His first recruiting class seemed much better to me in performance last year. "Great recruiter", but other that Vad last year, and Tutt (who only started one game on a bad defense) - who on this team he recruited are you excited about? He says he does not believe in red-shirting so he's playing them

Also Mosley, and Steele looked pretty good early on in their careers in another scheme. They both look worse today than 2 or 3 years ago.

Tutt , wr domo, moreland , Oliver , Holloway, Sharp , two lineman with great size, Marcel ( dropped int in game) , Shor. All players who have great potential when they are Juniors and Seniors.

FWIW record vs playoff teams: 1-5
2014 VU lost
2014 RU won
2014 LU lost
2015 RU lost
2015 W&M lost
2015 Colgate lost