It also is prudent use of the taxpayers money and effective integration and diversity!

(10-25-2015 06:22 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Like Alabama, Mississippi, Miss. State and LSU. These four states want to close or merged all of the HBCUs to eliminate any competing dollars going to them from the state. That is when you have law makers in power in these states are alumni from the power schools.

I'm pretty sure that closing State and A&M - thereby sending thousands more black students to Tuscaloosa - is about the last thing the UA System Trustees and their heirs in the Machine want to see happen.

(10-25-2015 06:22 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(10-25-2015 06:07 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Money talks, so perhaps some kind of settlement and retirement package would be in the works. As they went about changing ownership of the local refinery, numerous employees were bought out and offered retirement stakes and packages.

But we are in for a rude awakening when it comes to higher education in this country and rather than keep building schools, we need some to close down and merge. As has been hinted at, the HBCU's are a legacy from the past. Heck, I went to one and know the type of citizen they serve (those who did not come from higher socioeconomic backgrounds are a high demographic) but with that said, if many can barely function, then it's time some merge or shut down.

The issue is mostly race issues. You have state governments in the south want to close or merge all the HBCU into all the public schools that was mainly white. It is like a slap to the face to the black communities because of the history of being prejudice against. That includes the schools who are doing okay. As it is, these schools are being prejudice by the state schools. Like Alabama, Mississippi, Miss. State and LSU. These four states want to close or merged all of the HBCUs to eliminate any competing dollars going to them from the state. That is when you have law makers in power in these states are alumni from the power schools.

The state of GA is in the process of merging many state colleges. But as alluded to unthread, Fort Valley State and Savannah State are the sticky wickets. Because there really isn't a competitor nearly by, I think FVSU is saved. But the opportunity to merge Sav St with Armstrong St and possibly the GT Savannah campus is too great to pass up.

(10-25-2015 10:34 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(10-25-2015 06:22 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(10-25-2015 06:07 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Money talks, so perhaps some kind of settlement and retirement package would be in the works. As they went about changing ownership of the local refinery, numerous employees were bought out and offered retirement stakes and packages.

But we are in for a rude awakening when it comes to higher education in this country and rather than keep building schools, we need some to close down and merge. As has been hinted at, the HBCU's are a legacy from the past. Heck, I went to one and know the type of citizen they serve (those who did not come from higher socioeconomic backgrounds are a high demographic) but with that said, if many can barely function, then it's time some merge or shut down.

The issue is mostly race issues. You have state governments in the south want to close or merge all the HBCU into all the public schools that was mainly white. It is like a slap to the face to the black communities because of the history of being prejudice against. That includes the schools who are doing okay. As it is, these schools are being prejudice by the state schools. Like Alabama, Mississippi, Miss. State and LSU. These four states want to close or merged all of the HBCUs to eliminate any competing dollars going to them from the state. That is when you have law makers in power in these states are alumni from the power schools.

The state of GA is in the process of merging many state colleges. But as alluded to unthread, Fort Valley State and Savannah State are the sticky wickets. Because there really isn't a competitor nearly by, I think FVSU is saved. But the opportunity to merge Sav St with Armstrong St and possibly the GT Savannah campus is too great to pass up.

The city of Albany has Albany St. the HBCU and a more recent school, Darton St. which is the "white" school.

(10-25-2015 06:13 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  Texas Southern should be successful by being located in a major city - ironically the very demographic it was created to serve is now concentrated in urban areas. What Texas Southern can do to stay ahead of the curve is to find a way to serve an increasing population of first-generation Hispanic students. Houston already has a plurality if not majority Hispanic population.

The problem is that there is a better HBCU in the Houston area. But you are correct about the growing Hispanic population.

(10-25-2015 06:22 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  The issue is mostly race issues. You have state governments in the south want to close or merge all the HBCU into all the public schools that was mainly white. It is like a slap to the face to the black communities because of the history of being prejudice against. That includes the schools who are doing okay. As it is, these schools are being prejudice by the state schools. Like Alabama, Mississippi, Miss. State and LSU. These four states want to close or merged all of the HBCUs to eliminate any competing dollars going to them from the state. That is when you have law makers in power in these states are alumni from the power schools.

Yeah, I understand that and all the issues being brought up in this thread, like tenure and tradition. But like I said, these schools are now often redundant.

(10-23-2015 07:30 PM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  No one goes to Norfolk State if they can get into ODU, and since anyone who can read with their mouth closed gets into ODU, Norfolk State is in a world of hurt.

The problem for Norfolk State is that the HBCU is a relic of the past that will eventually be relegated to the dust bins of history. The first victims will be the HBCUs located in the same towns as other state schools. Norfolk State will eventually be merged into ODU, Central State with Wright State, Savannah State with Armstrong Atlantic, UNCG and NC A&T. They will all go the way of UT Nashville and Tennessee State.

The rise of the mega state school in Virginia really does sop up those looking for a degree (George Mason University (NoVA), Virginia Commonwealth (Richmond), and Old Dominion (Norfolk)).

(10-25-2015 02:53 PM)chess Wrote:  

(10-23-2015 07:30 PM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  No one goes to Norfolk State if they can get into ODU, and since anyone who can read with their mouth closed gets into ODU, Norfolk State is in a world of hurt.

The problem for Norfolk State is that the HBCU is a relic of the past that will eventually be relegated to the dust bins of history. The first victims will be the HBCUs located in the same towns as other state schools. Norfolk State will eventually be merged into ODU, Central State with Wright State, Savannah State with Armstrong Atlantic, UNCG and NC A&T. They will all go the way of UT Nashville and Tennessee State.

The rise of the mega state school in Virginia really does sop up those looking for a degree (George Mason University (NoVA), Virginia Commonwealth (Richmond), and Old Dominion (Norfolk)).

Except not everyone wants to go to a large public school. I think there's still a place for the niche state school. Whether Norfolk State can pivot out of the mess they're in now is to be determined, but it seems as though they can serve a specific audience, even if evolves from what it historically has been.

As it is, most of the successful HBCUs change to accept white students.

I think the problems with Norfolk State and others are a lack of media marketing to attract students.

(10-25-2015 03:28 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(10-25-2015 02:53 PM)chess Wrote:  

(10-23-2015 07:30 PM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  No one goes to Norfolk State if they can get into ODU, and since anyone who can read with their mouth closed gets into ODU, Norfolk State is in a world of hurt.

The problem for Norfolk State is that the HBCU is a relic of the past that will eventually be relegated to the dust bins of history. The first victims will be the HBCUs located in the same towns as other state schools. Norfolk State will eventually be merged into ODU, Central State with Wright State, Savannah State with Armstrong Atlantic, UNCG and NC A&T. They will all go the way of UT Nashville and Tennessee State.

The rise of the mega state school in Virginia really does sop up those looking for a degree (George Mason University (NoVA), Virginia Commonwealth (Richmond), and Old Dominion (Norfolk)).

Except not everyone wants to go to a large public school. I think there's still a place for the niche state school. Whether Norfolk State can pivot out of the mess they're in now is to be determined, but it seems as though they can serve a specific audience, even if evolves from what it historically has been.

Does Virginia have a state liberal arts-focused school like Francis Marion in South Carolina, or New College in Florida?

(10-25-2015 06:34 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  As it is, most of the successful HBCUs change to accept white students.

I think the problems with Norfolk State and others are a lack of media marketing to attract students.

All HBCU's accept non-blacks it's just a matter of marketing toward those other groups and in turn having them become interested. It's a giant elephant in the room and we can stick our head in the sand about it but racism is a factor but more accurately, classicism and security concerns by non-blacks runs through people's minds whether that's fair or not.

(10-25-2015 06:47 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(10-25-2015 06:34 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  As it is, most of the successful HBCUs change to accept white students.

I think the problems with Norfolk State and others are a lack of media marketing to attract students.

All HBCU's accept non-blacks it's just a matter of marketing toward those other groups and in turn having them become interested. It's a giant elephant in the room and we can stick our head in the sand about it but racism is a factor but more accurately, classicism and security concerns by non-blacks runs through people's minds whether that's fair or not.

I think a more accurate description of the problem would have to include the fact that as a rule HBCUs offer terrible educational opportunities for middle class, or even lower class, whites.

The HBCUs form an underclass of schools. They are simply outdated.

That depends on the HBCU. Some majors, programs and a few schools are glorified high schools. But my school (my real school) had some legit majors where you couldn't sleepwalk through school and party every night and everyone I knew who took one of those majors is doing very well right now.

Goes back to that conversation that college is what you make of it that I've put out there ad naseum.

Some HBCUs are excellent. Both HUs are great (Howard and Hampton) and there are others as well. However, Norfolk State isn't looking too hot because its alumni aren't pulling their weight in terms of funding, and the school itself isn't being run to its full potential with some incompetent leadership as of late.

I would love to see a revitalized NSU but I'm not holding my breath.

(10-25-2015 08:51 PM)Murray007 Wrote:  Some HBCUs are excellent. Both HUs are great (Howard and Hampton) and there are others as well. However, Norfolk State isn't looking too hot because its alumni aren't pulling their weight in terms of funding, and the school itself isn't being run to its full potential with some incompetent leadership as of late.

And this is both a virtuous circle for higher quality schools and a vicious circle for lower quality schools, because both being able to be more selective in entry and then delivering a broader and deeper upgrade in career skills and learning skills while at school results in an alumni base that is better able to pull their weight in terms of funding.

(10-25-2015 01:46 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(10-25-2015 06:13 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  Texas Southern should be successful by being located in a major city - ironically the very demographic it was created to serve is now concentrated in urban areas. What Texas Southern can do to stay ahead of the curve is to find a way to serve an increasing population of first-generation Hispanic students. Houston already has a plurality if not majority Hispanic population.

The problem is that there is a better HBCU in the Houston area. But you are correct about the growing Hispanic population

(10-25-2015 06:22 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  The issue is mostly race issues. You have state governments in the south want to close or merge all the HBCU into all the public schools that was mainly white. It is like a slap to the face to the black communities because of the history of being prejudice against. That includes the schools who are doing okay. As it is, these schools are being prejudice by the state schools. Like Alabama, Mississippi, Miss. State and LSU. These four states want to close or merged all of the HBCUs to eliminate any competing dollars going to them from the state. That is when you have law makers in power in these states are alumni from the power schools.

Yeah, I understand that and all the issues being brought up in this thread, like tenure and tradition. But like I said, these schools are now often redundant.

TSU really is redundant. UH-Downtown College, just about 3 miles away, serves similar academic populations, although UH-Downtown is diverse. Its about 1/3 Hispanic, 1/3 Black, 1/3 White. University of Houston main campus serves a little different academic population and is trying to further differentiate itself. It is also pretty diverse-29% White, 27% Hispanic, 20% Asian, 10% Black, 10% International and 4% other.

Enrollment is going to be an issue for many schools.
Projections are that overall the number enrolled is going to fall over the next decade or so. Big name schools are becoming more reliant on adding more students to offset falling state enrollment so that will suck up kids and leave even fewer for the other schools.

This isn't a good time to be a state four year school with sub 10k enrollment and a really bad time to be sub 5k unless you've carved out a reliable niche.

(10-25-2015 09:18 PM)bullet Wrote:  TSU really is redundant. UH-Downtown College, just about 3 miles away, serves similar academic populations, although UH-Downtown is diverse. Its about 1/3 Hispanic, 1/3 Black, 1/3 White. University of Houston main campus serves a little different academic population and is trying to further differentiate itself. It is also pretty diverse-29% White, 27% Hispanic, 20% Asian, 10% Black, 10% International and 4% other.

But TSU still serves a niche.

We have to come to a point where everyone needs to accept their roles and colleges get back to doing their mission. Not everyone can be nor should strive to be Harvard (traditionally) as an academic institution. Not every school can be UCLA athletically. Some schools need to be IUPUI or UCF (i.e. giant commuter schools).

I'm contradicting earlier statements I've made but why can't TSU remain open for lower socioeconomic and less advanced students?

We need more schools being what they were meant to be (or for HBCU's, helping those being left behind), instead of emulating Harvard or Big State U academically and athletically. There's only one or two of those per state.

(10-26-2015 01:28 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(10-25-2015 09:18 PM)bullet Wrote:  TSU really is redundant. UH-Downtown College, just about 3 miles away, serves similar academic populations, although UH-Downtown is diverse. Its about 1/3 Hispanic, 1/3 Black, 1/3 White. University of Houston main campus serves a little different academic population and is trying to further differentiate itself. It is also pretty diverse-29% White, 27% Hispanic, 20% Asian, 10% Black, 10% International and 4% other.

But TSU still serves a niche.

We have to come to a point where everyone needs to accept their roles and colleges get back to doing their mission. Not everyone can be nor should strive to be Harvard (traditionally) as an academic institution. Not every school can be UCLA athletically. Some schools need to be IUPUI or UCF (i.e. giant commuter schools).

I'm contradicting earlier statements I've made but why can't TSU remain open for lower socioeconomic and less advanced students?

We need more schools being what they were meant to be (or for HBCU's, helping those being left behind), instead of emulating Harvard or Big State U academically and athletically. There's only one or two of those per state.

That's what UH-Downtown does. They both serve that same population.

And its really a different issue, but less advanced students AND state budgets would be much better served with those people going to community colleges.

(10-26-2015 08:40 AM)bullet Wrote:  That's what UH-Downtown does. They both serve that same population.

They once proposed making TSU part of the UT or UH system. UT doesn't have a presence in Houston outside the science center (and UTMB in the suburbs), so that would be interesting.