(08-17-2015 01:44 PM)Crump1 Wrote:  

(08-17-2015 12:51 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-16-2015 09:21 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  The Sun Belt actually has some pretty good programs in it. If you could combine: Louisiana, Arkansas State, Southern Miss, UAB, Middle Tenn, WKU, GA Southern, GA State, FIU, FAU, Coastal, App, Charlotte, and Old Dominion. Into one conference you would be the MAC of the south. A great regional conference that can play it's bigger brother (SEC) in non-conference and come out with some wins.

I could add Jacksonville State, Central Arkansas, South alabama, Troy, McNeese State and at times Missouri State as well.

Missouri State, USA and Troy maybe. The rest are not in the same class and not close.

Dont keep up with football much do you?

(08-17-2015 04:51 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  

(08-17-2015 12:49 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Problem with that is that MWC could be picked apart with their top programs. Sacramento State, Eastern Washington, Montana, Montana State, Cal-Poly, Cal-Davis, SFA, Sam Houston State, Lamar and McNeese State all could go to FBS.
Long Beach State and Wichita State also looking to join MWC including in adding football if they had to.

Seattle was rumored that they could start a football program up.
Grand Canyon U. could start sports programs soon as well.
Utah Valley could add women's soccer and add football at the same time.
UTRGV said they would look into football after they get their new name and look in place.
New Orleans got into the Southland because they were supposed to start football this year. It is in a holding pattern right now with a start date tbd.
Texas A&M-C.C. said they might start football as well.

Now, the issue with your idea would not work when several schools could be joining the FBS ranks in the future.

D2 call ups could fit in the scenerio like Humboldt State, Azusa Pacific (top football in the west at D2.), Western Oregon, Dixie State, Simon Fraser, Western Washington, Montana State-Billings, Mary's ND, Colorado Mines, Clorado-Mesa, Colorado State-Pueblo, New Mexico Highlands, West Texas A&M, Western Washington, NW Nazarene Idaho, Chaminade to the Big West, Central Washington, Washburn, Midwestern State, Metro State, Angelo State, Texas A&M-Kingsville, Tarleton State, Texas-A&M-Commerce, Central Oklahoma, Fort Hays State, Nebraska-Kearney, Western State, Adams State (Revenge of The Nerds reference), Fort Lewis, Westminster, Concordia Oregon, St. Martin's and so forth. I would like to see NCAA give a waiver to OKCU since they were former D1 and now in the NAIA because of money issues. They were looking into adding football, and filed paperwork to join D1 before the new rules took place.

Where are these Mountain West schools going to go? Boise State is the only one with any serious consideration for a P5 conference.

No more than one of those Division II schools with football will be moving up in the next 10 years. The ones that are most capable, Central Washington and Central Oklahoma, have shown zero interest in Division I. Most of them are simply too small to be Division I. There is also not enough room in the Southland and Big Sky to accommodate any meaningful number of move-ups - something like the plan I proposed would need to be implemented so you don't have 16 teams fighting for one bid to the Big Dance and one bid to the FCS playoffs.

Schools like Utah Valley and Grand Canyon would need the WAC to steal Big Sky and Southland schools to be able to start FCS football themselves - there is no room at the inn elsewhere, until the WAC builds a new inn.

With the FCOAs kicks in? I think the NCAA will relax some rules for any D2 to move up. Big West and WAC could restart football which could take in some schools like Central Oklahoma, GNAC and so forth. Western Oregon would be smart to move with Central Washington as a pair. The three southern GNAC schools like Humbolt State, Azusa Pacific and Dixie State could join Big West in football only, and join the WAC for the rest.

Big West:
Cal-Davis
Cal-Poly
Southern Utah
Dixie State
Sacramento State
Northern Arizona
Long Beach State (could add football)

Fullerton State and Northridge State are having students asking when they will have football at those schools.


Central Washington and Western Oregon could slid into the Big Sky then.

WAC:
Grand Caynon U.
Utah Valley
West Texas A&M
Washburn
UTRGV

Simon Fraser?
Mary, ND?
Western Washington
South Dakota Mines
Colorado Mesa
Colorado State-Pueblo
Central Oklahoma

I am thinking of a 4 tier D1 conference. 1 and 2 for bowl games with a NIT like playoffs.
Tiers 3 and 4 be FCS. Tier 4 will be schools that play no scholarships which if you think D3 schools and the club teams that could fill out that tier. Johns Hopkins could play at tier 4 level.

(08-16-2015 09:58 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  

(08-16-2015 09:18 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Chicago State's a sinking ship...WAC's about the only place they can go. Only if some conference is that desperate to be in Chicago will they find a home. Maybe if the Summit does finally fall apart, which doesn't look likely anytime soon (if really ever).

The only thing I could see working in their favor is if the OVC invites Kennesaw State to replace Eastern Kentucky, the Atlantic Sun may need to invite Chicago State just to stay in business themselves.

Chicago St would be a good travel partner for Western Illinois, in the Summit. But Eastern Illinois would be a much better choice.

If Summit could get EIU to pair with WIU, then Chicago St should look at dropping to DII (no idea what conference).

(08-24-2015 12:53 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(08-16-2015 09:58 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  

(08-16-2015 09:18 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Chicago State's a sinking ship...WAC's about the only place they can go. Only if some conference is that desperate to be in Chicago will they find a home. Maybe if the Summit does finally fall apart, which doesn't look likely anytime soon (if really ever).

The only thing I could see working in their favor is if the OVC invites Kennesaw State to replace Eastern Kentucky, the Atlantic Sun may need to invite Chicago State just to stay in business themselves.

Chicago St would be a good travel partner for Western Illinois, in the Summit. But Eastern Illinois would be a much better choice.

If Summit could get EIU to pair with WIU, then Chicago St should look at dropping to DII (no idea what conference).

If the WAC restarts football at the FCS level? Would Indianapolis University be a travel partner to Chicago State?

(08-22-2015 08:18 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-17-2015 04:51 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  

(08-17-2015 12:49 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Problem with that is that MWC could be picked apart with their top programs. Sacramento State, Eastern Washington, Montana, Montana State, Cal-Poly, Cal-Davis, SFA, Sam Houston State, Lamar and McNeese State all could go to FBS.
Long Beach State and Wichita State also looking to join MWC including in adding football if they had to.

Seattle was rumored that they could start a football program up.
Grand Canyon U. could start sports programs soon as well.
Utah Valley could add women's soccer and add football at the same time.
UTRGV said they would look into football after they get their new name and look in place.
New Orleans got into the Southland because they were supposed to start football this year. It is in a holding pattern right now with a start date tbd.
Texas A&M-C.C. said they might start football as well.

Now, the issue with your idea would not work when several schools could be joining the FBS ranks in the future.

D2 call ups could fit in the scenerio like Humboldt State, Azusa Pacific (top football in the west at D2.), Western Oregon, Dixie State, Simon Fraser, Western Washington, Montana State-Billings, Mary's ND, Colorado Mines, Clorado-Mesa, Colorado State-Pueblo, New Mexico Highlands, West Texas A&M, Western Washington, NW Nazarene Idaho, Chaminade to the Big West, Central Washington, Washburn, Midwestern State, Metro State, Angelo State, Texas A&M-Kingsville, Tarleton State, Texas-A&M-Commerce, Central Oklahoma, Fort Hays State, Nebraska-Kearney, Western State, Adams State (Revenge of The Nerds reference), Fort Lewis, Westminster, Concordia Oregon, St. Martin's and so forth. I would like to see NCAA give a waiver to OKCU since they were former D1 and now in the NAIA because of money issues. They were looking into adding football, and filed paperwork to join D1 before the new rules took place.

Where are these Mountain West schools going to go? Boise State is the only one with any serious consideration for a P5 conference.

No more than one of those Division II schools with football will be moving up in the next 10 years. The ones that are most capable, Central Washington and Central Oklahoma, have shown zero interest in Division I. Most of them are simply too small to be Division I. There is also not enough room in the Southland and Big Sky to accommodate any meaningful number of move-ups - something like the plan I proposed would need to be implemented so you don't have 16 teams fighting for one bid to the Big Dance and one bid to the FCS playoffs.

Schools like Utah Valley and Grand Canyon would need the WAC to steal Big Sky and Southland schools to be able to start FCS football themselves - there is no room at the inn elsewhere, until the WAC builds a new inn.

With the FCOAs kicks in? I think the NCAA will relax some rules for any D2 to move up. Big West and WAC could restart football which could take in some schools like Central Oklahoma, GNAC and so forth. Western Oregon would be smart to move with Central Washington as a pair. The three southern GNAC schools like Humbolt State, Azusa Pacific and Dixie State could join Big West in football only, and join the WAC for the rest.

Big West:
Cal-Davis
Cal-Poly
Southern Utah
Dixie State
Sacramento State
Northern Arizona
Long Beach State (could add football)

Fullerton State and Northridge State are having students asking when they will have football at those schools.


Central Washington and Western Oregon could slid into the Big Sky then.

WAC:
Grand Caynon U.
Utah Valley
West Texas A&M
Washburn
UTRGV

Simon Fraser?
Mary, ND?
Western Washington
South Dakota Mines
Colorado Mesa
Colorado State-Pueblo
Central Oklahoma

I am thinking of a 4 tier D1 conference. 1 and 2 for bowl games with a NIT like playoffs.
Tiers 3 and 4 be FCS. Tier 4 will be schools that play no scholarships which if you think D3 schools and the club teams that could fill out that tier. Johns Hopkins could play at tier 4 level.

Adding football or moving up in classification isn't as simple as moving their name on a spreadsheet.

You keep saying things like "Random University could start football" and "Random State could move to Division I," but you never show your work, or even the remotest basis for your reasoning.

So here's my challenge: I'm going to pick a school from above at random. Let's go with South Dakota Mines (I like to imagine the entire campus is actually in mines). Your mission: Lay out your argument for how South Dakota Mines can reasonably move to Division I and join the WAC. Provide evidence that a) they're considering a move, and/or b) they have the ability to make a move. It can be school documents, newspaper articles ... basically, anything that rises above the level of random speculating on a message board. Don't just say "well, they could do this"; I could sprout wings and gills and turn into an aquabirdman, but the smart money says that in an hour, I'll still be sitting in front of my computer, no more likely to fly or breathe underwater than I am now.

South Dakota Mines to Division I and the WAC. You say they can do it. I say "prove it"

(08-17-2015 02:07 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-17-2015 01:44 PM)Crump1 Wrote:  

(08-17-2015 12:51 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-16-2015 09:21 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  The Sun Belt actually has some pretty good programs in it. If you could combine: Louisiana, Arkansas State, Southern Miss, UAB, Middle Tenn, WKU, GA Southern, GA State, FIU, FAU, Coastal, App, Charlotte, and Old Dominion. Into one conference you would be the MAC of the south. A great regional conference that can play it's bigger brother (SEC) in non-conference and come out with some wins.

I could add Jacksonville State, Central Arkansas, South alabama, Troy, McNeese State and at times Missouri State as well.

Missouri State, USA and Troy maybe. The rest are not in the same class and not close.

Central Arkansas almost beat Texas Tech last year. That is why I including them since they could hold their own.
Jacksonville State on there because they beat Ol' Miss a few years ago.
McNeese State almost beat Nebraska last year.
La.-Monroe beat Arkansas.

You don't make expansion decisions based on individual games. You look at facilities, support (financial and fanaticism), long term success, geography, etc.

(08-17-2015 06:47 PM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  

(08-17-2015 01:44 PM)Crump1 Wrote:  

(08-17-2015 12:51 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-16-2015 09:21 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  The Sun Belt actually has some pretty good programs in it. If you could combine: Louisiana, Arkansas State, Southern Miss, UAB, Middle Tenn, WKU, GA Southern, GA State, FIU, FAU, Coastal, App, Charlotte, and Old Dominion. Into one conference you would be the MAC of the south. A great regional conference that can play it's bigger brother (SEC) in non-conference and come out with some wins.

I could add Jacksonville State, Central Arkansas, South alabama, Troy, McNeese State and at times Missouri State as well.

Missouri State, USA and Troy maybe. The rest are not in the same class and not close.

Dont keep up with football much do you?

Yep. More than most, including yourself it appears.

(08-24-2015 12:53 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(08-16-2015 09:58 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  

(08-16-2015 09:18 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Chicago State's a sinking ship...WAC's about the only place they can go. Only if some conference is that desperate to be in Chicago will they find a home. Maybe if the Summit does finally fall apart, which doesn't look likely anytime soon (if really ever).

The only thing I could see working in their favor is if the OVC invites Kennesaw State to replace Eastern Kentucky, the Atlantic Sun may need to invite Chicago State just to stay in business themselves.

Chicago St would be a good travel partner for Western Illinois, in the Summit. But Eastern Illinois would be a much better choice.

If Summit could get EIU to pair with WIU, then Chicago St should look at dropping to DII (no idea what conference).

They should probably drop to D3 and focus on rebuilding the institution.

I doubt A-Sun ever goes that far west...they could have resorted to that in the past for similar institutions and didn't. If it did, I think they'd reach further for UMKC and see if someone other than Chicago State wants to jump up to D1 as a partner. Yeah, CSU is *that* bad.

(08-24-2015 03:08 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(08-24-2015 12:53 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(08-16-2015 09:58 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  

(08-16-2015 09:18 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Chicago State's a sinking ship...WAC's about the only place they can go. Only if some conference is that desperate to be in Chicago will they find a home. Maybe if the Summit does finally fall apart, which doesn't look likely anytime soon (if really ever).

The only thing I could see working in their favor is if the OVC invites Kennesaw State to replace Eastern Kentucky, the Atlantic Sun may need to invite Chicago State just to stay in business themselves.

Chicago St would be a good travel partner for Western Illinois, in the Summit. But Eastern Illinois would be a much better choice.

If Summit could get EIU to pair with WIU, then Chicago St should look at dropping to DII (no idea what conference).

They should probably drop to D3 and focus on rebuilding the institution.

I doubt A-Sun ever goes that far west...they could have resorted to that in the past for similar institutions and didn't. If it did, I think they'd reach further for UMKC and see if someone other than Chicago State wants to jump up to D1 as a partner. Yeah, CSU is *that* bad.

Chi St has a nice arena.

I don't know much about it other than the Mid-Continent (old name of Summit) kicked it out of the conference or it left the conference. I've heard rumors about bad APR numbers, but not sure if that's just message board talk or what.

There a few "misfits of DI" that were all in the old Great West conference together, like Chi St, UT Pan American (which has now changed its name) and NJ Tech (which is now in a conference).

Chicago State was skating on thin ice with the NCAA nearly a decade ago:

http://forum.orusports.com/index.php/top...e-is-gone/

(08-24-2015 01:10 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(08-22-2015 08:18 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-17-2015 04:51 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  

(08-17-2015 12:49 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Problem with that is that MWC could be picked apart with their top programs. Sacramento State, Eastern Washington, Montana, Montana State, Cal-Poly, Cal-Davis, SFA, Sam Houston State, Lamar and McNeese State all could go to FBS.
Long Beach State and Wichita State also looking to join MWC including in adding football if they had to.

Seattle was rumored that they could start a football program up.
Grand Canyon U. could start sports programs soon as well.
Utah Valley could add women's soccer and add football at the same time.
UTRGV said they would look into football after they get their new name and look in place.
New Orleans got into the Southland because they were supposed to start football this year. It is in a holding pattern right now with a start date tbd.
Texas A&M-C.C. said they might start football as well.

Now, the issue with your idea would not work when several schools could be joining the FBS ranks in the future.

D2 call ups could fit in the scenerio like Humboldt State, Azusa Pacific (top football in the west at D2.), Western Oregon, Dixie State, Simon Fraser, Western Washington, Montana State-Billings, Mary's ND, Colorado Mines, Clorado-Mesa, Colorado State-Pueblo, New Mexico Highlands, West Texas A&M, Western Washington, NW Nazarene Idaho, Chaminade to the Big West, Central Washington, Washburn, Midwestern State, Metro State, Angelo State, Texas A&M-Kingsville, Tarleton State, Texas-A&M-Commerce, Central Oklahoma, Fort Hays State, Nebraska-Kearney, Western State, Adams State (Revenge of The Nerds reference), Fort Lewis, Westminster, Concordia Oregon, St. Martin's and so forth. I would like to see NCAA give a waiver to OKCU since they were former D1 and now in the NAIA because of money issues. They were looking into adding football, and filed paperwork to join D1 before the new rules took place.

Where are these Mountain West schools going to go? Boise State is the only one with any serious consideration for a P5 conference.

No more than one of those Division II schools with football will be moving up in the next 10 years. The ones that are most capable, Central Washington and Central Oklahoma, have shown zero interest in Division I. Most of them are simply too small to be Division I. There is also not enough room in the Southland and Big Sky to accommodate any meaningful number of move-ups - something like the plan I proposed would need to be implemented so you don't have 16 teams fighting for one bid to the Big Dance and one bid to the FCS playoffs.

Schools like Utah Valley and Grand Canyon would need the WAC to steal Big Sky and Southland schools to be able to start FCS football themselves - there is no room at the inn elsewhere, until the WAC builds a new inn.

With the FCOAs kicks in? I think the NCAA will relax some rules for any D2 to move up. Big West and WAC could restart football which could take in some schools like Central Oklahoma, GNAC and so forth. Western Oregon would be smart to move with Central Washington as a pair. The three southern GNAC schools like Humbolt State, Azusa Pacific and Dixie State could join Big West in football only, and join the WAC for the rest.

Big West:
Cal-Davis
Cal-Poly
Southern Utah
Dixie State
Sacramento State
Northern Arizona
Long Beach State (could add football)

Fullerton State and Northridge State are having students asking when they will have football at those schools.


Central Washington and Western Oregon could slid into the Big Sky then.

WAC:
Grand Caynon U.
Utah Valley
West Texas A&M
Washburn
UTRGV

Simon Fraser?
Mary, ND?
Western Washington
South Dakota Mines
Colorado Mesa
Colorado State-Pueblo
Central Oklahoma

I am thinking of a 4 tier D1 conference. 1 and 2 for bowl games with a NIT like playoffs.
Tiers 3 and 4 be FCS. Tier 4 will be schools that play no scholarships which if you think D3 schools and the club teams that could fill out that tier. Johns Hopkins could play at tier 4 level.

Adding football or moving up in classification isn't as simple as moving their name on a spreadsheet.

You keep saying things like "Random University could start football" and "Random State could move to Division I," but you never show your work, or even the remotest basis for your reasoning.

So here's my challenge: I'm going to pick a school from above at random. Let's go with South Dakota Mines (I like to imagine the entire campus is actually in mines). Your mission: Lay out your argument for how South Dakota Mines can reasonably move to Division I and join the WAC. Provide evidence that a) they're considering a move, and/or b) they have the ability to make a move. It can be school documents, newspaper articles ... basically, anything that rises above the level of random speculating on a message board. Don't just say "well, they could do this"; I could sprout wings and gills and turn into an aquabirdman, but the smart money says that in an hour, I'll still be sitting in front of my computer, no more likely to fly or breathe underwater than I am now.

South Dakota Mines to Division I and the WAC. You say they can do it. I say "prove it"

South Dakota Mines, Sioux Falls and Black Hills State can fill a spot if one of the FCS Dakota schools go FBS.
Besides football and basketball for Mines Men's. They have sports that can be sponser at D1 in places that a conference that needs another school that sponsers that sport like men's golf, soccer. Women's Golf and volleyball, and their cross country and track and field. Women's have competition cheerleading.

Mines was a member of GNAC for soccer and football until this year they will be joining RMAC for all sports. As it is, there is really not enough schools that offer men's soccer up at the D1 level which would make Mines a prospect. Plus, the north central plains is lacking of D1 programs as well.

(08-24-2015 05:13 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-24-2015 01:10 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(08-22-2015 08:18 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-17-2015 04:51 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  

(08-17-2015 12:49 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Problem with that is that MWC could be picked apart with their top programs. Sacramento State, Eastern Washington, Montana, Montana State, Cal-Poly, Cal-Davis, SFA, Sam Houston State, Lamar and McNeese State all could go to FBS.
Long Beach State and Wichita State also looking to join MWC including in adding football if they had to.

Seattle was rumored that they could start a football program up.
Grand Canyon U. could start sports programs soon as well.
Utah Valley could add women's soccer and add football at the same time.
UTRGV said they would look into football after they get their new name and look in place.
New Orleans got into the Southland because they were supposed to start football this year. It is in a holding pattern right now with a start date tbd.
Texas A&M-C.C. said they might start football as well.

Now, the issue with your idea would not work when several schools could be joining the FBS ranks in the future.

D2 call ups could fit in the scenerio like Humboldt State, Azusa Pacific (top football in the west at D2.), Western Oregon, Dixie State, Simon Fraser, Western Washington, Montana State-Billings, Mary's ND, Colorado Mines, Clorado-Mesa, Colorado State-Pueblo, New Mexico Highlands, West Texas A&M, Western Washington, NW Nazarene Idaho, Chaminade to the Big West, Central Washington, Washburn, Midwestern State, Metro State, Angelo State, Texas A&M-Kingsville, Tarleton State, Texas-A&M-Commerce, Central Oklahoma, Fort Hays State, Nebraska-Kearney, Western State, Adams State (Revenge of The Nerds reference), Fort Lewis, Westminster, Concordia Oregon, St. Martin's and so forth. I would like to see NCAA give a waiver to OKCU since they were former D1 and now in the NAIA because of money issues. They were looking into adding football, and filed paperwork to join D1 before the new rules took place.

Where are these Mountain West schools going to go? Boise State is the only one with any serious consideration for a P5 conference.

No more than one of those Division II schools with football will be moving up in the next 10 years. The ones that are most capable, Central Washington and Central Oklahoma, have shown zero interest in Division I. Most of them are simply too small to be Division I. There is also not enough room in the Southland and Big Sky to accommodate any meaningful number of move-ups - something like the plan I proposed would need to be implemented so you don't have 16 teams fighting for one bid to the Big Dance and one bid to the FCS playoffs.

Schools like Utah Valley and Grand Canyon would need the WAC to steal Big Sky and Southland schools to be able to start FCS football themselves - there is no room at the inn elsewhere, until the WAC builds a new inn.

With the FCOAs kicks in? I think the NCAA will relax some rules for any D2 to move up. Big West and WAC could restart football which could take in some schools like Central Oklahoma, GNAC and so forth. Western Oregon would be smart to move with Central Washington as a pair. The three southern GNAC schools like Humbolt State, Azusa Pacific and Dixie State could join Big West in football only, and join the WAC for the rest.

Big West:
Cal-Davis
Cal-Poly
Southern Utah
Dixie State
Sacramento State
Northern Arizona
Long Beach State (could add football)

Fullerton State and Northridge State are having students asking when they will have football at those schools.


Central Washington and Western Oregon could slid into the Big Sky then.

WAC:
Grand Caynon U.
Utah Valley
West Texas A&M
Washburn
UTRGV

Simon Fraser?
Mary, ND?
Western Washington
South Dakota Mines
Colorado Mesa
Colorado State-Pueblo
Central Oklahoma

I am thinking of a 4 tier D1 conference. 1 and 2 for bowl games with a NIT like playoffs.
Tiers 3 and 4 be FCS. Tier 4 will be schools that play no scholarships which if you think D3 schools and the club teams that could fill out that tier. Johns Hopkins could play at tier 4 level.

Adding football or moving up in classification isn't as simple as moving their name on a spreadsheet.

You keep saying things like "Random University could start football" and "Random State could move to Division I," but you never show your work, or even the remotest basis for your reasoning.

So here's my challenge: I'm going to pick a school from above at random. Let's go with South Dakota Mines (I like to imagine the entire campus is actually in mines). Your mission: Lay out your argument for how South Dakota Mines can reasonably move to Division I and join the WAC. Provide evidence that a) they're considering a move, and/or b) they have the ability to make a move. It can be school documents, newspaper articles ... basically, anything that rises above the level of random speculating on a message board. Don't just say "well, they could do this"; I could sprout wings and gills and turn into an aquabirdman, but the smart money says that in an hour, I'll still be sitting in front of my computer, no more likely to fly or breathe underwater than I am now.

South Dakota Mines to Division I and the WAC. You say they can do it. I say "prove it"

South Dakota Mines, Sioux Falls and Black Hills State can fill a spot if one of the FCS Dakota schools go FBS.
Besides football and basketball for Mines Men's. They have sports that can be sponser at D1 in places that a conference that needs another school that sponsers that sport like men's golf, soccer. Women's Golf and volleyball, and their cross country and track and field. Women's have competition cheerleading.

Mines was a member of GNAC for soccer and football until this year they will be joining RMAC for all sports. As it is, there is really not enough schools that offer men's soccer up at the D1 level which would make Mines a prospect. Plus, the north central plains is lacking of D1 programs as well.

Black Hills St is probably the most ambitious, but none of them can go DI. Just too small of enrollments. Mines wasn't wanted by the RMAC for years because Colo MInes saw them as an academic threat. Mines had to join the GNAC with Seattle and Alaska schools to save their athletic bacon.

Augustana of Sioux Falls is the cream of the crop of SD DII schools as far as finances, and they didn't move with USD and SDSU even though they have deep pocket support. They could still move up, but without scholarship football. Northern St leads DII in basketball attendance, but no way do they move to DI.

Sioux Falls and Rapid City draw big crowds for lower level hockey. Could see a DII school in those cities start a DI hockey team as USD and SDSU wont. Spearfish, where Black Hills St is, is building a rink that can accommodate a team right near the BHSU campus.

(08-22-2015 08:18 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  With the FCOAs kicks in? I think the NCAA will relax some rules for any D2 to move up. Big West and WAC could restart football which could take in some schools like Central Oklahoma, GNAC and so forth. Western Oregon would be smart to move with Central Washington as a pair. The three southern GNAC schools like Humbolt State, Azusa Pacific and Dixie State could join Big West in football only, and join the WAC for the rest.

Big West:
Cal-Davis
Cal-Poly
Southern Utah
Dixie State
Sacramento State
Northern Arizona
Long Beach State (could add football)

Fullerton State and Northridge State are having students asking when they will have football at those schools.


Central Washington and Western Oregon could slid into the Big Sky then.

WAC:
Grand Caynon U.
Utah Valley
West Texas A&M
Washburn
UTRGV

Simon Fraser?
Mary, ND?
Western Washington
South Dakota Mines
Colorado Mesa
Colorado State-Pueblo
Central Oklahoma

There are a lot of ifs coming your way. Simon Fraser is a full member of the NCAA. I don't think they would have any problem moving up to Division 1 if they so choose. The WAC fits them best but I could see them in the Big Sky with the Montana's, North Dakota and UNC as well - especially if the Big Sky is raided.

For the most part, NCAA rules require a minimum of six teams in non-basketball sports for conferences to have autobids to those respective Tournaments. And of those six members, at least four must be full members. Therefore, assuming the Big West starts FCS football - and that none of the other Cal States can do it - you will need at least two more schools to join, and they would be for all sports. Sac State is a shoe-in with their proximity to UC Davis. Dixie State at least has both men's soccer and baseball, two Big West staples. Southern Utah, not so much. I still think Portland State would find the cost of reduced travel too tempting to pass up.

Therefore, Big West football looks like this:

UC Davis (full member)
Cal Poly (full member)
Portland State (full member)
Sac State (full member)
Dixie State?
Southern Utah
Northern Arizona
Azuza Pacific (WCC in other sports)

The WAC will need at least one California school, so that's where Humboldt State will go

(08-24-2015 03:14 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Chi St has a nice arena.

It does. A gift from the government if there ever was...

(08-25-2015 02:30 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(08-22-2015 08:18 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  With the FCOAs kicks in? I think the NCAA will relax some rules for any D2 to move up. Big West and WAC could restart football which could take in some schools like Central Oklahoma, GNAC and so forth. Western Oregon would be smart to move with Central Washington as a pair. The three southern GNAC schools like Humbolt State, Azusa Pacific and Dixie State could join Big West in football only, and join the WAC for the rest.

Big West:
Cal-Davis
Cal-Poly
Southern Utah
Dixie State
Sacramento State
Northern Arizona
Long Beach State (could add football)

Fullerton State and Northridge State are having students asking when they will have football at those schools.


Central Washington and Western Oregon could slid into the Big Sky then.

WAC:
Grand Caynon U.
Utah Valley
West Texas A&M
Washburn
UTRGV

Simon Fraser?
Mary, ND?
Western Washington
South Dakota Mines
Colorado Mesa
Colorado State-Pueblo
Central Oklahoma

There are a lot of ifs coming your way. Simon Fraser is a full member of the NCAA. I don't think they would have any problem moving up to Division 1 if they so choose. The WAC fits them best but I could see them in the Big Sky with the Montana's, North Dakota and UNC as well - especially if the Big Sky is raided.

For the most part, NCAA rules require a minimum of six teams in non-basketball sports for conferences to have autobids to those respective Tournaments. And of those six members, at least four must be full members. Therefore, assuming the Big West starts FCS football - and that none of the other Cal States can do it - you will need at least two more schools to join, and they would be for all sports. Sac State is a shoe-in with their proximity to UC Davis. Dixie State at least has both men's soccer and baseball, two Big West staples. Southern Utah, not so much. I still think Portland State would find the cost of reduced travel too tempting to pass up.

Therefore, Big West football looks like this:

UC Davis (full member)
Cal Poly (full member)
Portland State (full member)
Sac State (full member)
Dixie State?
Southern Utah
Northern Arizona
Azuza Pacific (WCC in other sports)

The WAC will need at least one California school, so that's where Humboldt State will go

Simon Frazier cannot join unless the NCAA changes its rules to allow non-US schools in D1. Right now D2 is the highest level a non-US school can be in...NAIA allow non-US schools as SF was in the NAIA for quite some time. Not sure why they move to NCAA D2. They are relatively the same level in scholarship amounts for each sport.

(08-24-2015 01:10 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(08-22-2015 08:18 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-17-2015 04:51 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  

(08-17-2015 12:49 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Problem with that is that MWC could be picked apart with their top programs. Sacramento State, Eastern Washington, Montana, Montana State, Cal-Poly, Cal-Davis, SFA, Sam Houston State, Lamar and McNeese State all could go to FBS.
Long Beach State and Wichita State also looking to join MWC including in adding football if they had to.

Seattle was rumored that they could start a football program up.
Grand Canyon U. could start sports programs soon as well.
Utah Valley could add women's soccer and add football at the same time.
UTRGV said they would look into football after they get their new name and look in place.
New Orleans got into the Southland because they were supposed to start football this year. It is in a holding pattern right now with a start date tbd.
Texas A&M-C.C. said they might start football as well.

Now, the issue with your idea would not work when several schools could be joining the FBS ranks in the future.

D2 call ups could fit in the scenerio like Humboldt State, Azusa Pacific (top football in the west at D2.), Western Oregon, Dixie State, Simon Fraser, Western Washington, Montana State-Billings, Mary's ND, Colorado Mines, Clorado-Mesa, Colorado State-Pueblo, New Mexico Highlands, West Texas A&M, Western Washington, NW Nazarene Idaho, Chaminade to the Big West, Central Washington, Washburn, Midwestern State, Metro State, Angelo State, Texas A&M-Kingsville, Tarleton State, Texas-A&M-Commerce, Central Oklahoma, Fort Hays State, Nebraska-Kearney, Western State, Adams State (Revenge of The Nerds reference), Fort Lewis, Westminster, Concordia Oregon, St. Martin's and so forth. I would like to see NCAA give a waiver to OKCU since they were former D1 and now in the NAIA because of money issues. They were looking into adding football, and filed paperwork to join D1 before the new rules took place.

Where are these Mountain West schools going to go? Boise State is the only one with any serious consideration for a P5 conference.

No more than one of those Division II schools with football will be moving up in the next 10 years. The ones that are most capable, Central Washington and Central Oklahoma, have shown zero interest in Division I. Most of them are simply too small to be Division I. There is also not enough room in the Southland and Big Sky to accommodate any meaningful number of move-ups - something like the plan I proposed would need to be implemented so you don't have 16 teams fighting for one bid to the Big Dance and one bid to the FCS playoffs.

Schools like Utah Valley and Grand Canyon would need the WAC to steal Big Sky and Southland schools to be able to start FCS football themselves - there is no room at the inn elsewhere, until the WAC builds a new inn.

With the FCOAs kicks in? I think the NCAA will relax some rules for any D2 to move up. Big West and WAC could restart football which could take in some schools like Central Oklahoma, GNAC and so forth. Western Oregon would be smart to move with Central Washington as a pair. The three southern GNAC schools like Humbolt State, Azusa Pacific and Dixie State could join Big West in football only, and join the WAC for the rest.

Big West:
Cal-Davis
Cal-Poly
Southern Utah
Dixie State
Sacramento State
Northern Arizona
Long Beach State (could add football)

Fullerton State and Northridge State are having students asking when they will have football at those schools.


Central Washington and Western Oregon could slid into the Big Sky then.

WAC:
Grand Caynon U.
Utah Valley
West Texas A&M
Washburn
UTRGV

Simon Fraser?
Mary, ND?
Western Washington
South Dakota Mines
Colorado Mesa
Colorado State-Pueblo
Central Oklahoma

I am thinking of a 4 tier D1 conference. 1 and 2 for bowl games with a NIT like playoffs.
Tiers 3 and 4 be FCS. Tier 4 will be schools that play no scholarships which if you think D3 schools and the club teams that could fill out that tier. Johns Hopkins could play at tier 4 level.

Adding football or moving up in classification isn't as simple as moving their name on a spreadsheet.

You keep saying things like "Random University could start football" and "Random State could move to Division I," but you never show your work, or even the remotest basis for your reasoning.

So here's my challenge: I'm going to pick a school from above at random. Let's go with South Dakota Mines (I like to imagine the entire campus is actually in mines). Your mission: Lay out your argument for how South Dakota Mines can reasonably move to Division I and join the WAC. Provide evidence that a) they're considering a move, and/or b) they have the ability to make a move. It can be school documents, newspaper articles ... basically, anything that rises above the level of random speculating on a message board. Don't just say "well, they could do this"; I could sprout wings and gills and turn into an aquabirdman, but the smart money says that in an hour, I'll still be sitting in front of my computer, no more likely to fly or breathe underwater than I am now.

South Dakota Mines to Division I and the WAC. You say they can do it. I say "prove it"

Tarleton State looked at moving up in 2004. They put a bid into the Southland and the league chose Central Arkansas instead because of facilities.

Since that time, The Lone Star Conference (D2) has lost ~10 members in the past 6 years. Abilene Christian and Incarnate Word's departure to the Southland has put the rest of the league in a bind. There are only 7 football schools in the league and it is forced to play a "in-conference playoff" at the end of the season just to make sure its members have enough games on the schedule.

After ACU's departure, caused several schools to make contingency plans just in case a D1 conference came sniffing around. Nobody wanted to be the school left behind if the others left.

Tarleton approved a $20/credit hour athletic fee and the president and AD are onboard. They are top basketball team in the league with multiple deep playoff runs (including a Final Four appearance last year) and were in the football playoffs a few years ago. They are just waiting on an invitation.
http://www.texannews.net/to-d-1-or-not-t...-question/

In 2011, Angelo State hired a consulting firm to determine if they could go Division I. It was ultimately determined that it would cost prohibitive at that time because they would have to increase their athletic budget from $4.5M to $10M. http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/angelo-s...-d-i-move.

Since that time, they have increased their athletic spending to $8M per the Department of Ed's website. --http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx

Now for the No Homework time,
West Texas A&M has stated that they are interested in staying Division II. However they already have a $10M budget, 20k stadium, 6k Arena, a history of D1 football and they would be the lone school in the Amarillo media market. They've already lost one of the major rivals (ACU) to D1, if Tarleton and Angelo made the jump WT would like to attempt to go with them.

If those 3 moved up, that leaves 4 schools in the league. TAMU-Commerce, TAMU-Kingsville, Eastern New Mexico, and Midwestern State. That leaves those 4 with a choice, ramp up or get left behind.

Eastern New Mexico is close enough to the RMAC schools that they could probably find a home

Midwestern State is on the Oklahoma border. It has 3000 students and a $4m budget. If the Lone Star dissolved they might be able to find a home in the Great American Conference (Oklahoma/Arkansas schools).

Texas A&M Commerce just revamped their stadium and arena, they are riding high on their recent football success and their location (just outside of Dallas). They have a $7m budget.

The question would they move up to keep pace with Tarleton/Angelo/WT and play OOC against nearby SFA and Sam Houston or look at staying at D2 in the Great American Conference. Like Midwestern, they are close to the GAC schools and were division mates with Oklahoma schools during the LSC-North Days.

Texas A&M Kingsville is the only with an issue. They have a stellar history but their budget isn't great ($5M) and their location doesn't make them a fit for any other D2 conferences. The southland already has two south Texas schools (Incarnate Word and A&M-Corpus) so it is unlikely for them to take them. However, The WAC could be interested because they are close to UT-RGV and would give them a travel partner for Olympic sports.

(08-24-2015 04:55 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  Chicago State was skating on thin ice with the NCAA nearly a decade ago:

http://forum.orusports.com/index.php/top...e-is-gone/

Thanks for the link.

Yeah, I would say based on that -- unless there is evidence of major reform -- then CSU won't be back in the Summit any time soon.

(08-25-2015 07:52 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(08-24-2015 03:14 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Chi St has a nice arena.

It does. A gift from the government if there ever was...

Interesting! The wikipedia article for the arena says that they didn't have to pay a dollar for it. It's named after the then president of the (I assume IL state) senate who got the money allocated from the state treasury.


The history of CSU itself is also interesting.

They had success as an NAIA athletic program. Probably should've been a DII team. Not sure what convinced them to move to DI.

(08-25-2015 10:44 AM)chrisattsu Wrote:  

(08-24-2015 01:10 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(08-22-2015 08:18 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-17-2015 04:51 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  

(08-17-2015 12:49 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Problem with that is that MWC could be picked apart with their top programs. Sacramento State, Eastern Washington, Montana, Montana State, Cal-Poly, Cal-Davis, SFA, Sam Houston State, Lamar and McNeese State all could go to FBS.
Long Beach State and Wichita State also looking to join MWC including in adding football if they had to.

Seattle was rumored that they could start a football program up.
Grand Canyon U. could start sports programs soon as well.
Utah Valley could add women's soccer and add football at the same time.
UTRGV said they would look into football after they get their new name and look in place.
New Orleans got into the Southland because they were supposed to start football this year. It is in a holding pattern right now with a start date tbd.
Texas A&M-C.C. said they might start football as well.

Now, the issue with your idea would not work when several schools could be joining the FBS ranks in the future.

D2 call ups could fit in the scenerio like Humboldt State, Azusa Pacific (top football in the west at D2.), Western Oregon, Dixie State, Simon Fraser, Western Washington, Montana State-Billings, Mary's ND, Colorado Mines, Clorado-Mesa, Colorado State-Pueblo, New Mexico Highlands, West Texas A&M, Western Washington, NW Nazarene Idaho, Chaminade to the Big West, Central Washington, Washburn, Midwestern State, Metro State, Angelo State, Texas A&M-Kingsville, Tarleton State, Texas-A&M-Commerce, Central Oklahoma, Fort Hays State, Nebraska-Kearney, Western State, Adams State (Revenge of The Nerds reference), Fort Lewis, Westminster, Concordia Oregon, St. Martin's and so forth. I would like to see NCAA give a waiver to OKCU since they were former D1 and now in the NAIA because of money issues. They were looking into adding football, and filed paperwork to join D1 before the new rules took place.

Where are these Mountain West schools going to go? Boise State is the only one with any serious consideration for a P5 conference.

No more than one of those Division II schools with football will be moving up in the next 10 years. The ones that are most capable, Central Washington and Central Oklahoma, have shown zero interest in Division I. Most of them are simply too small to be Division I. There is also not enough room in the Southland and Big Sky to accommodate any meaningful number of move-ups - something like the plan I proposed would need to be implemented so you don't have 16 teams fighting for one bid to the Big Dance and one bid to the FCS playoffs.

Schools like Utah Valley and Grand Canyon would need the WAC to steal Big Sky and Southland schools to be able to start FCS football themselves - there is no room at the inn elsewhere, until the WAC builds a new inn.

With the FCOAs kicks in? I think the NCAA will relax some rules for any D2 to move up. Big West and WAC could restart football which could take in some schools like Central Oklahoma, GNAC and so forth. Western Oregon would be smart to move with Central Washington as a pair. The three southern GNAC schools like Humbolt State, Azusa Pacific and Dixie State could join Big West in football only, and join the WAC for the rest.

Big West:
Cal-Davis
Cal-Poly
Southern Utah
Dixie State
Sacramento State
Northern Arizona
Long Beach State (could add football)

Fullerton State and Northridge State are having students asking when they will have football at those schools.


Central Washington and Western Oregon could slid into the Big Sky then.

WAC:
Grand Caynon U.
Utah Valley
West Texas A&M
Washburn
UTRGV

Simon Fraser?
Mary, ND?
Western Washington
South Dakota Mines
Colorado Mesa
Colorado State-Pueblo
Central Oklahoma

I am thinking of a 4 tier D1 conference. 1 and 2 for bowl games with a NIT like playoffs.
Tiers 3 and 4 be FCS. Tier 4 will be schools that play no scholarships which if you think D3 schools and the club teams that could fill out that tier. Johns Hopkins could play at tier 4 level.

Adding football or moving up in classification isn't as simple as moving their name on a spreadsheet.

You keep saying things like "Random University could start football" and "Random State could move to Division I," but you never show your work, or even the remotest basis for your reasoning.

So here's my challenge: I'm going to pick a school from above at random. Let's go with South Dakota Mines (I like to imagine the entire campus is actually in mines). Your mission: Lay out your argument for how South Dakota Mines can reasonably move to Division I and join the WAC. Provide evidence that a) they're considering a move, and/or b) they have the ability to make a move. It can be school documents, newspaper articles ... basically, anything that rises above the level of random speculating on a message board. Don't just say "well, they could do this"; I could sprout wings and gills and turn into an aquabirdman, but the smart money says that in an hour, I'll still be sitting in front of my computer, no more likely to fly or breathe underwater than I am now.

South Dakota Mines to Division I and the WAC. You say they can do it. I say "prove it"

Tarleton State looked at moving up in 2004. They put a bid into the Southland and the league chose Central Arkansas instead because of facilities.

Since that time, The Lone Star Conference (D2) has lost ~10 members in the past 6 years. Abilene Christian and Incarnate Word's departure to the Southland has put the rest of the league in a bind. There are only 7 football schools in the league and it is forced to play a "in-conference playoff" at the end of the season just to make sure its members have enough games on the schedule.

After ACU's departure, caused several schools to make contingency plans just in case a D1 conference came sniffing around. Nobody wanted to be the school left behind if the others left.

Tarleton approved a $20/credit hour athletic fee and the president and AD are onboard. They are top basketball team in the league with multiple deep playoff runs (including a Final Four appearance last year) and were in the football playoffs a few years ago. They are just waiting on an invitation.
http://www.texannews.net/to-d-1-or-not-t...-question/

In 2011, Angelo State hired a consulting firm to determine if they could go Division I. It was ultimately determined that it would cost prohibitive at that time because they would have to increase their athletic budget from $4.5M to $10M. http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/angelo-s...-d-i-move.

Since that time, they have increased their athletic spending to $8M per the Department of Ed's website. --http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx

Now for the No Homework time,
West Texas A&M has stated that they are interested in staying Division II. However they already have a $10M budget, 20k stadium, 6k Arena, a history of D1 football and they would be the lone school in the Amarillo media market. They've already lost one of the major rivals (ACU) to D1, if Tarleton and Angelo made the jump WT would like to attempt to go with them.

If those 3 moved up, that leaves 4 schools in the league. TAMU-Commerce, TAMU-Kingsville, Eastern New Mexico, and Midwestern State. That leaves those 4 with a choice, ramp up or get left behind.

Eastern New Mexico is close enough to the RMAC schools that they could probably find a home

Midwestern State is on the Oklahoma border. It has 3000 students and a $4m budget. If the Lone Star dissolved they might be able to find a home in the Great American Conference (Oklahoma/Arkansas schools).

Texas A&M Commerce just revamped their stadium and arena, they are riding high on their recent football success and their location (just outside of Dallas). They have a $7m budget.

The question would they move up to keep pace with Tarleton/Angelo/WT and play OOC against nearby SFA and Sam Houston or look at staying at D2 in the Great American Conference. Like Midwestern, they are close to the GAC schools and were division mates with Oklahoma schools during the LSC-North Days.

Texas A&M Kingsville is the only with an issue. They have a stellar history but their budget isn't great ($5M) and their location doesn't make them a fit for any other D2 conferences. The southland already has two south Texas schools (Incarnate Word and A&M-Corpus) so it is unlikely for them to take them. However, The WAC could be interested because they are close to UT-RGV and would give them a travel partner for Olympic sports.

Would Kingsville be willing to go the no-football DI route, to be UTRGV's travel partner?

Seems like UTRGV should move down, if anything.

(08-25-2015 01:28 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(08-25-2015 10:44 AM)chrisattsu Wrote:  Texas A&M Kingsville is the only with an issue. They have a stellar history but their budget isn't great ($5M) and their location doesn't make them a fit for any other D2 conferences. The southland already has two south Texas schools (Incarnate Word and A&M-Corpus) so it is unlikely for them to take them. However, The WAC could be interested because they are close to UT-RGV and would give them a travel partner for Olympic sports.

Would Kingsville be willing to go the no-football DI route, to be UTRGV's travel partner?

Seems like UTRGV should move down, if anything.

No. The Javelinas pride themselves in their football pedigree. They've won 7 National Titles, 34 Conference championships, have 3 players in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, and consistently rank near the top for D2 attendance. Football is their culture.

UTRGV would be best suited getting into a regional conference, but the Southland has no interest in them. Even if they dropped down to the D2 level, I am not sure the Lone Star would take them. The LSC needs football schools.