CSNbbs

Since there seem to be three candidates for the Sun Belt (Eastern Kentucky, Coastal Carolina, New Mexico State), how do you see other conferences backfilling any vacancies?

If it's just Coastal Carolina, I could see the Big South being content to remain at 10 members for all sports. This would only give them 6 for football, one of which (Monmouth) is an associate, but the Big South lives another day in FCS. The Big South could try to get Campbell to move its football program over from the Pioneer League, but I'm not sure if the school is in position to add football scholarships.

Eastern Kentucky may be the most interesting departure. They sit squarely within the OVC footprint, and the OVC would probably want a FCS program to keep the 9/12 alignment intact. Would they go after a school like Kennesaw State, threatening both the Big South as a football conference, and the Atlantic Sun as a whole? Can ETSU or Chattanooga be taken from the SoCon? Would the OVC be content with 8 football members and possibly even triple down in Nashville with Lipscomb?

New Mexico State leaving the WAC will be the most damaging of the three potential departures. The WAC would be down to seven members, and Grand Canyon's last transitional year is the 2016-17 season. This would allow the WAC to survive the grace period, if no one else leaves. Would the WAC would go after schools around UMKC and Chicago State to build a viable Midwestern core? Does it work with the Big Sky and rebuild itself as an FCS league? Are there are any Southland schools that can be poached? Does the WAC get lucky and find itself with a school playing only football in the Big 12? Are any schools willing to move from Division II?

WAC school playing football in the Big 12?

Kennesaw State is only an associate member of the Big South for football like Monmouth. Kennesaw is a full member of the Atlantic Sun Conference.

(08-11-2015 10:03 PM)chargeradio Wrote: [ -> ]Since there seem to be three candidates for the Sun Belt (Eastern Kentucky, Coastal Carolina, New Mexico State), how do you see other conferences backfilling any vacancies?

If it's just Coastal Carolina, I could see the Big South being content to remain at 10 members for all sports. This would only give them 6 for football, one of which (Monmouth) is an associate, but the Big South lives another day in FCS. The Big South could try to get Campbell to move its football program over from the Pioneer League, but I'm not sure if the school is in position to add football scholarships.

Eastern Kentucky may be the most interesting departure. They sit squarely within the OVC footprint, and the OVC would probably want a FCS program to keep the 9/12 alignment intact. Would they go after a school like Kennesaw State, threatening both the Big South as a football conference, and the Atlantic Sun as a whole? Can ETSU or Chattanooga be taken from the SoCon? Would the OVC be content with 8 football members and possibly even triple down in Nashville with Lipscomb?

New Mexico State leaving the WAC will be the most damaging of the three potential departures. The WAC would be down to seven members, and Grand Canyon's last transitional year is the 2016-17 season. This would allow the WAC to survive the grace period, if no one else leaves. Would the WAC would go after schools around UMKC and Chicago State to build a viable Midwestern core? Does it work with the Big Sky and rebuild itself as an FCS league? Are there are any Southland schools that can be poached? Does the WAC get lucky and find itself with a school playing only football in the Big 12? Are any schools willing to move from Division II?

North Alabama could be called up for OVC.

Columbus State could move up to A-Sun.

If WAC/Big Sky do something? I could see it with a mix of some D2 schools to even out in the area for football.

Big South? Longisland-Post and Indiana, Pa. both want to go to D1. They both have football.

Ugh, enough with the IUP and WC stuff, especially for something like Big South!

Barring NMSU finally getting its full membership, I think Big South eats it the other ways. With EKU, OVC could backfill with a non-fb member, but I think that comes from Big South or ASun more than Southland or the unlikely SoCon or MEAC schools. Major lol if UTC would leave SoCon after this round, but ETSU would have to go with them, and maybe one more to "round things out." +1 to the Kennesaw State suspicions.

I've been waiting for a school to split from MEAC. OVC's got a HBCU school amongst them, but I think the leaders of these schools fear their alumni too much.

There have been rumors that a MEAC school or two could leave and join the Big South. But if Coastal and Liberty leave then I'm not sure it would be as attractive. And I think the alumni backlash would be huge, agreeing with the comment above.

There have also been rumors that some of the private schools in the Big South would like to reduce scholarships, so I could see it becoming a low or non-scholarship league and getting Campbell (who is in the Big South for all other sports) and perhaps other Pioneer league schools to join as football only members.

(08-12-2015 06:53 AM)rokamortis Wrote: [ -> ]There have been rumors that a MEAC school or two could leave and join the Big South. But if Coastal and Liberty leave then I'm not sure it would be as attractive. And I think the alumni backlash would be huge, agreeing with the comment above.

There have also been rumors that some of the private schools in the Big South would like to reduce scholarships, so I could see it becoming a low or non-scholarship league and getting Campbell (who is in the Big South for all other sports) and perhaps other Pioneer league schools to join as football only members.

If a MEAC were to bolt OVC would probably be easier to sell to the fans thanks to Tenn St.

(08-12-2015 07:55 AM)arkstfan Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2015 06:53 AM)rokamortis Wrote: [ -> ]There have been rumors that a MEAC school or two could leave and join the Big South. But if Coastal and Liberty leave then I'm not sure it would be as attractive. And I think the alumni backlash would be huge, agreeing with the comment above.

There have also been rumors that some of the private schools in the Big South would like to reduce scholarships, so I could see it becoming a low or non-scholarship league and getting Campbell (who is in the Big South for all other sports) and perhaps other Pioneer league schools to join as football only members.

If a MEAC were to bolt OVC would probably be easier to sell to the fans thanks to Tenn St.

I think Florida A&M, Bethune-Cookman and Savahnna State should go to the SWAC with Tuskegee. They fit better there, and you can have a truely east west split of 7 and 7.

Not sure how South Carolina will fare right now.

MEAC could refill with northern schools like Fayetteville State, Central State Ohio, Bowie State and when Coppin State decides to add football.

(08-12-2015 06:53 AM)rokamortis Wrote: [ -> ]And I think the alumni backlash would be huge...

Irony of ironies when some of these places are barely surviving.

I'm looking at Delaware State for any Big South movement...the travel becomes easier, all the sports can move there, and DSU has been trying to diversify itself from the perceived limitations HBCU connotes with schools. I think this is now or never for them, really.

(08-12-2015 08:19 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2015 06:53 AM)rokamortis Wrote: [ -> ]And I think the alumni backlash would be huge...

Irony of ironies when some of these places are barely surviving.

I'm looking at Delaware State for any Big South movement...the travel becomes easier, all the sports can move there, and DSU has been trying to diversify itself from the perceived limitations HBCU connotes with schools. I think this is now or never for them, really.

Del St and NCA&T are the two most mentioned as looking for another conference and I believe have had discussions with the Big South. SC State may not even be able to sustain DI.

(08-12-2015 08:19 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2015 06:53 AM)rokamortis Wrote: [ -> ]And I think the alumni backlash would be huge...

Irony of ironies when some of these places are barely surviving.

I'm looking at Delaware State for any Big South movement...the travel becomes easier, all the sports can move there, and DSU has been trying to diversify itself from the perceived limitations HBCU connotes with schools. I think this is now or never for them, really.

I bet you'll see more and more HBCU's close in the next few years. Here in NC we have St. Augustine, Fayetteville State, Elizabeth City State, and Shaw that are all having problems. NC Central and NC A&T have a good base but the smaller schools are just hanging on.

I have always thought Elizabeth City and Fay State should become part of ECU and just become schools for people living in the OBX and Fayetteville who may not want to move to Greenville and can take night classes etc. and students who do not need the big school experience. Just have undergrad their with no sports and keep cost down.

(08-12-2015 09:09 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2015 08:19 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2015 06:53 AM)rokamortis Wrote: [ -> ]And I think the alumni backlash would be huge...

Irony of ironies when some of these places are barely surviving.

I'm looking at Delaware State for any Big South movement...the travel becomes easier, all the sports can move there, and DSU has been trying to diversify itself from the perceived limitations HBCU connotes with schools. I think this is now or never for them, really.

I bet you'll see more and more HBCU's close in the next few years. Here in NC we have St. Augustine, Fayetteville State, Elizabeth City State, and Shaw that are all having problems. NC Central and NC A&T have a good base but the smaller schools are just hanging on.

I have always thought Elizabeth City and Fay State should become part of ECU and just become schools for people living in the OBX and Fayetteville who may not want to move to Greenville and can take night classes etc. and students who do not need the big school experience. Just have undergrad their with no sports and keep cost down.

I'm a little surprised that some of the smaller state HBC haven't been absorbed by larger state U's already.
Del St is in a unique position to transform itself from just another HBC, into a truly second state school for Del. It is trying very hard to broaden its student body. I think it sees that in order to survive and thrive as a D1, it needs to bring in more diverse students. If not, U of Wilmington will pass it by.

Strictly my opinion: in order for HBU's to survive, they'll have to eventually proclaim a purpose that extends beyond higher education for black decedents of slaves.

(08-11-2015 10:03 PM)chargeradio Wrote: [ -> ]Since there seem to be three candidates for the Sun Belt (Eastern Kentucky, Coastal Carolina, New Mexico State), how do you see other conferences backfilling any vacancies?

If it's just Coastal Carolina, I could see the Big South being content to remain at 10 members for all sports. This would only give them 6 for football, one of which (Monmouth) is an associate, but the Big South lives another day in FCS. The Big South could try to get Campbell to move its football program over from the Pioneer League, but I'm not sure if the school is in position to add football scholarships.

Eastern Kentucky may be the most interesting departure. They sit squarely within the OVC footprint, and the OVC would probably want a FCS program to keep the 9/12 alignment intact. Would they go after a school like Kennesaw State, threatening both the Big South as a football conference, and the Atlantic Sun as a whole? Can ETSU or Chattanooga be taken from the SoCon? Would the OVC be content with 8 football members and possibly even triple down in Nashville with Lipscomb?

New Mexico State leaving the WAC will be the most damaging of the three potential departures. The WAC would be down to seven members, and Grand Canyon's last transitional year is the 2016-17 season. This would allow the WAC to survive the grace period, if no one else leaves. Would the WAC would go after schools around UMKC and Chicago State to build a viable Midwestern core? Does it work with the Big Sky and rebuild itself as an FCS league? Are there are any Southland schools that can be poached? Does the WAC get lucky and find itself with a school playing only football in the Big 12? Are any schools willing to move from Division II?

Big South is used to being on the low end of football members. Liberty can't go FBS, for now.

OVC should call up Morehead St from the Pioneer (with allowances for scholarships) and then send Eastern Illinois to the Summit/MVFC. That gives them 8/10.

WAC ... not sure what to say there. None of the teams in it really want to be there.

(08-12-2015 09:37 AM)mikeinsec127 Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2015 09:09 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2015 08:19 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2015 06:53 AM)rokamortis Wrote: [ -> ]And I think the alumni backlash would be huge...

Irony of ironies when some of these places are barely surviving.

I'm looking at Delaware State for any Big South movement...the travel becomes easier, all the sports can move there, and DSU has been trying to diversify itself from the perceived limitations HBCU connotes with schools. I think this is now or never for them, really.

I bet you'll see more and more HBCU's close in the next few years. Here in NC we have St. Augustine, Fayetteville State, Elizabeth City State, and Shaw that are all having problems. NC Central and NC A&T have a good base but the smaller schools are just hanging on.

I have always thought Elizabeth City and Fay State should become part of ECU and just become schools for people living in the OBX and Fayetteville who may not want to move to Greenville and can take night classes etc. and students who do not need the big school experience. Just have undergrad their with no sports and keep cost down.

I'm a little surprised that some of the smaller state HBC haven't been absorbed by larger state U's already.
Del St is in a unique position to transform itself from just another HBC, into a truly second state school for Del. It is trying very hard to broaden its student body. I think it sees that in order to survive and thrive as a D1, it needs to bring in more diverse students. If not, U of Wilmington will pass it by.

WilmU's already passed it. They have 19,000 students with 6,900 on their main campus, whereas Del St only has 4,600 students.

(08-12-2015 10:31 AM)mufanatehc Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2015 09:37 AM)mikeinsec127 Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2015 09:09 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2015 08:19 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-12-2015 06:53 AM)rokamortis Wrote: [ -> ]And I think the alumni backlash would be huge...

Irony of ironies when some of these places are barely surviving.

I'm looking at Delaware State for any Big South movement...the travel becomes easier, all the sports can move there, and DSU has been trying to diversify itself from the perceived limitations HBCU connotes with schools. I think this is now or never for them, really.

I bet you'll see more and more HBCU's close in the next few years. Here in NC we have St. Augustine, Fayetteville State, Elizabeth City State, and Shaw that are all having problems. NC Central and NC A&T have a good base but the smaller schools are just hanging on.

I have always thought Elizabeth City and Fay State should become part of ECU and just become schools for people living in the OBX and Fayetteville who may not want to move to Greenville and can take night classes etc. and students who do not need the big school experience. Just have undergrad their with no sports and keep cost down.

I'm a little surprised that some of the smaller state HBC haven't been absorbed by larger state U's already.
Del St is in a unique position to transform itself from just another HBC, into a truly second state school for Del. It is trying very hard to broaden its student body. I think it sees that in order to survive and thrive as a D1, it needs to bring in more diverse students. If not, U of Wilmington will pass it by.

WilmU's already passed it. They have 19,000 students with 6,900 on their main campus, whereas Del St only has 4,600 students.

Yeah, and it's where Wilmington is pushing where DSU really dropped it: non-traditional students, graduate and post-graduate studies, and distance learning. Wilmington really pushes it all over the area, including Philly, and its being felt across a lot of the small private schools who work with the non-traditional types.

Where Del State can cut into that is its structure. That they're public and Wilmington is private...at some point, were DSU to figure it out, it could undercut WU and the other private schools. Then again, if the PASSHE schools could get it together, including another public HBCU (Cheyney), it would be lights out for a lot of the schools up this way.

Between Lincoln, Cheyney (and other PASSHE schools), PSU and its branch campuses, Delaware State, the small private schools who are reaching out to new populations, I'm surprised most/all are still in business. There's literally no need for them all to be here. And the last thing some of these schools want are the bigger schools, beyond Temple, like La Salle, St. Joe's, and Rowan to start chomping into the pools further. Rowan's starting to, and PSU has fired shots by building a dorm on its Brandywine campus.

This is the first I've ever heard that U of Del is private.

So is U of Penn, I guess...

(08-12-2015 10:47 AM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ]This is the first I've ever heard that U of Del is private.

It's like Pitt, Penn State, Temple, and Lincoln in PA...state-related. Not fully public or private.

(08-12-2015 10:47 AM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ]This is the first I've ever heard that U of Del is private.

So is U of Penn, I guess...

Delaware is one of those weird colonial universities that started out as privately chartered.

It is Delaware's land-grant University (as well as sea-grant and space-grant) and receives public funding from the state.

So it is in the gray area between private and public - graduates like to boast it is private, as if that makes it better, all the while it takes money and acts as Delaware's flagship university.

UD actually CLOSED for a dozen years, and only money from the Land Grant Act allowed it to reopen.

So as much as they try to make it a private, UD is really a public university.

(08-12-2015 10:16 AM)MplsBison Wrote: [ -> ]Strictly my opinion: in order for HBU's to survive, they'll have to eventually proclaim a purpose that extends beyond higher education for black decedents of slaves.

I don't recall seeing that exact definition, but they are a niche organization just like an all women's college, a military college, etc. Their history and service is commendable and were the only option to many students at the time. In this day and age it is up to the students to decide if this type of institution is important to them - if so then the school should be excelling. If not, then they may need to look at a different mission or perhaps even closing.

SCSU is having major problems because their admin wouldn't make a balanced budget in times of declining enrollment. Now they are - but are making huge budget cuts. They are trying to stay DI - but that may mean playing 3 FBS schools in 2016.

http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20.../150809378