(08-13-2015 01:31 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(08-13-2015 11:42 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-13-2015 10:43 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(08-13-2015 10:31 AM)rokamortis Wrote:  

(08-13-2015 10:07 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  That might make sense if they had an agriculture college. But it doesn't even look like Clemson has a system of campuses.

USC - O might be the most reasonable, if they wanted to join up with USC.


But their appear to be a few stand-alone four-year public schools in SC, like Coastal, Winthrop, Lander.

But he's right. I hadn't thought of it previously but Clemson would likely be a much better solution since they share many of the same academic interests. If they became a system school of USC then they'd just be another cog in the machine. Clemson could actually help SCSU strengthen its programs with expertise, provide experiential learning opportunities, and a path to research that would never be an option with SC.

Or SCSU could remain an independent four-year institution. What would be wrong with simply doing that, and then marketing itself as a school for everyone in SC?

Clemson's only area of expertise that USC doesn't also cover is agriculture, which makes sense given Clemson's history as a land-grant university.

It doesn't appear that SCSU has any programs related to agriculture.


I'm definitely not advocating for SCSU to "become just another cog" in USC's system.

The only way that happens is if they overcome their financial and academic woes because if not either the state is going to close it's doors or they are going to lose accreditation.



And a solid case could be made that establishing an agricultural program (besides the existing agribusiness path they already have) would be a benefit to the region since agriculture is such a huge part of the economy.

That would be a good addition, as would Clemson's ability to improve their engineering and biology departments.

They could also establish a bridge program similar to the one currently between Tri County Technical College and Clemson with Orangeburg-Calhoun Tech and Denmark Tech.

OK, fair enough.

So couldn't SCSU develop this relationship without changing its name to Clemson-Orangeburg?

I have a feeling that SCSU alumni and boosters might sue over that one. They'd play the race card, for sure.

I doubt that Clemson would make them change their name, if for no other reason than the historical significance of the name.

There is no doubt that the University of South Carolina would force them to become USC-Orangeburg.

(08-13-2015 03:33 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  I doubt that Clemson would make them change their name, if for no other reason than the historical significance of the name.

I think they'd make them add "Clemson" somewhere. Like, CU:/-SCSU, CU@SCSCU, or SCSCU @/of CU.

If CU carries weight (which it does) and it puts butts in the seats, increases applicant pools, or helps both out, they'll link the names.

It's such a weird thing how this is. Other schools should be wanting out of MEAC because of the association with SCSU and its sagging status. They aren't chomping at the bit to leave. Conversely, SCSU could/should see this as its own opportunity to proactively re-purpose itself away from MEAC, which, with more injection from other sources, is likely going to change its enrollment profile to something less "HBCU." Or, more simply, I thought someone would have left MEAC over this, be it SCSU itself or the others to get away from SCSU...but nobody has budged. I know some have tried, and others have had whispers...this is a very interesting scenario, imo.

(08-12-2015 08:02 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 07:55 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 06:53 AM)rokamortis Wrote:  There have been rumors that a MEAC school or two could leave and join the Big South. But if Coastal and Liberty leave then I'm not sure it would be as attractive. And I think the alumni backlash would be huge, agreeing with the comment above.

There have also been rumors that some of the private schools in the Big South would like to reduce scholarships, so I could see it becoming a low or non-scholarship league and getting Campbell (who is in the Big South for all other sports) and perhaps other Pioneer league schools to join as football only members.

If a MEAC were to bolt OVC would probably be easier to sell to the fans thanks to Tenn St.

I think Florida A&M, Bethune-Cookman and Savahnna State should go to the SWAC with Tuskegee. They fit better there, and you can have a truely east west split of 7 and 7.

Not sure how South Carolina will fare right now.

MEAC could refill with northern schools like Fayetteville State, Central State Ohio, Bowie State and when Coppin State decides to add football.

Cannot see Coppin St. adding football in the next decade and beyond...maybe ever, basically a commuter school

(08-13-2015 02:03 PM)rokamortis Wrote:  

(08-13-2015 01:31 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  OK, fair enough.

So couldn't SCSU develop this relationship without changing its name to Clemson-Orangeburg?

I have a feeling that SCSU alumni and boosters might sue over that one. They'd play the race card, for sure.

Who said they would change their name?

It is doubtful to happen one way or the other - I think the state will keep giving them just enough new money to survive since they have a new board that is serious about turning it around and making the tough decisions.

I think staying an independent four-year institution is a reasonable path for them.

Some where claiming that they need the money bad enough to become satellite campuses of the SC flagships.

(08-13-2015 04:16 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(08-13-2015 03:33 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  I doubt that Clemson would make them change their name, if for no other reason than the historical significance of the name.

I think they'd make them add "Clemson" somewhere. Like, CU:/-SCSU, CU@SCSCU, or SCSCU @/of CU.

If CU carries weight (which it does) and it puts butts in the seats, increases applicant pools, or helps both out, they'll link the names.

I don't believe that adding Clemson or CU to their name would have any appreciable effect. People aren't clamoring to attend USC-Aiken or USC-Beaufort because of the USC part of their name.

If anything the SC State brand is far more established, and retaining the SC State name would be along the lines of several of the NC schools like Elizabeth City State, East Carolina, etc. retaining their name when folded into the North Carolina system.

Quote:It's such a weird thing how this is. Other schools should be wanting out of MEAC because of the association with SCSU and its sagging status. They aren't chomping at the bit to leave. Conversely, SCSU could/should see this as its own opportunity to proactively re-purpose itself away from MEAC, which, with more injection from other sources, is likely going to change its enrollment profile to something less "HBCU." Or, more simply, I thought someone would have left MEAC over this, be it SCSU itself or the others to get away from SCSU...but nobody has budged. I know some have tried, and others have had whispers...this is a very interesting scenario, imo.

I know a number of SC State alums who are not happy about the path the MEAC has taken and would be working towards exiting the MEAC ASAP except they rightfully feel they have bigger fish to fry with trying to keep the doors open. Once their future is secure that will probably be the next battle.

(08-12-2015 01:29 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  DSU has only had the "U" thing in their name for like 20 years. It was DSC until the 90's.

Nothing really propels DSU further into the reputation game until it gets a medical school.

Why? UDel doesn't have one. There are plenty of good universities that don't have a medical school. Del St needs to improve its ranking in just about every area before it even thinks about making any major additions.

(08-13-2015 08:57 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 01:29 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  DSU has only had the "U" thing in their name for like 20 years. It was DSC until the 90's.

Nothing really propels DSU further into the reputation game until it gets a medical school.

Why? UDel doesn't have one. There are plenty of good universities that don't have a medical school.

That's why. The related programs and the like make them different from others, even UD. Different enrollment profile, different approach to operations, diversified funding base.

I'm not sure I disagree about the true need for that, but *so* many schools up in these parts are trying to get into that game. Do they think that as universities, they are the next step? It does put them onto the research track.

(08-13-2015 05:33 PM)Heelworld Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 08:02 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 07:55 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(08-12-2015 06:53 AM)rokamortis Wrote:  There have been rumors that a MEAC school or two could leave and join the Big South. But if Coastal and Liberty leave then I'm not sure it would be as attractive. And I think the alumni backlash would be huge, agreeing with the comment above.

There have also been rumors that some of the private schools in the Big South would like to reduce scholarships, so I could see it becoming a low or non-scholarship league and getting Campbell (who is in the Big South for all other sports) and perhaps other Pioneer league schools to join as football only members.

If a MEAC were to bolt OVC would probably be easier to sell to the fans thanks to Tenn St.

I think Florida A&M, Bethune-Cookman and Savahnna State should go to the SWAC with Tuskegee. They fit better there, and you can have a truely east west split of 7 and 7.

Not sure how South Carolina will fare right now.

MEAC could refill with northern schools like Fayetteville State, Central State Ohio, Bowie State and when Coppin State decides to add football.

Cannot see Coppin St. adding football in the next decade and beyond...maybe ever, basically a commuter school

Coppin State does have a club team. They mentioned that they could start a varsity team this year. That is on hold because they have not decided yet on the issue.
Even Maryland-Eastern Shore looked into adding a team. They tabled the plan since they are not ready yet.

Speaking of football, FCS football would be one way to rebuild the WAC:

Big Sky (8/10)
Sacramento State, Portland State, Eastern Washington, Idaho State, Weber State, Montana, Montana State, North Dakota, Seattle (non football), Idaho (FBS football)

WAC (8/10)
Northern Arizona, Southern Utah, Northern Colorado, Grand Canyon (no football), Bakersfield (no football), Utah Valley (no football), Cal Poly (FCS football only), UC Davis (FCS football only), Abilene Christian, Incarnate Word, Houston Baptist, UTRGV (no football)

Southland (8/10)
Stephen F. Austin, Sam Houston State, Lamar, Central Arkansas, Northwestern State, Nicholls State, McNeese State, Southeastern Louisiana, New Orleans (no football), Texas A&M Corpus Christi (no football)

This takes 2 of the the stronger leagues in FCS (Southland and Big Sky) and creates a third league with an AQ to the FCS playoffs. Most of the WAC's new members already have some relationship with the league as an affiliate member in at least one sport. The Big Sky and Southland slim down to 10 members from 12 and 13, respectively. The Texas schools heading to the WAC can now schedule their former Southland foes in out-of-conference play, which should help mitigate their increased travel expenses. The WAC also has connections to both Texas and California, which should allow its members to recruit productively.

Chicago State and UMKC presumably would have found more geographically appropriate homes as a part of this reorganization, but if they are unable to leave, they can form a division of six schools in the Central Time Zone, and the six schools in the Mountain and Pacific Time Zones form the other division. It should be noted that UMKC is actually closer to the University of Northern Colorado than they are to the schools in Texas in this proposed alignment for the WAC, so UMKC could very well stay.

All three conferences would be able to transition members from Division II as they saw fit, and all three conferences could provide a home for a football program if their candidate school sponsors one. Any Big West, Summit League, or West Coast Conference school that chooses to sponsor scholarship FCS football would also have an additional option for affiliate membership.

Chicago State's a sinking ship...WAC's about the only place they can go. Only if some conference is that desperate to be in Chicago will they find a home. Maybe if the Summit does finally fall apart, which doesn't look likely anytime soon (if really ever).

The Sun Belt actually has some pretty good programs in it. If you could combine: Louisiana, Arkansas State, Southern Miss, UAB, Middle Tenn, WKU, GA Southern, GA State, FIU, FAU, Coastal, App, Charlotte, and Old Dominion. Into one conference you would be the MAC of the south. A great regional conference that can play it's bigger brother (SEC) in non-conference and come out with some wins.

(08-16-2015 09:18 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Chicago State's a sinking ship...WAC's about the only place they can go. Only if some conference is that desperate to be in Chicago will they find a home. Maybe if the Summit does finally fall apart, which doesn't look likely anytime soon (if really ever).

The only thing I could see working in their favor is if the OVC invites Kennesaw State to replace Eastern Kentucky, the Atlantic Sun may need to invite Chicago State just to stay in business themselves.

(08-16-2015 06:37 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  Speaking of football, FCS football would be one way to rebuild the WAC:

Big Sky (8/10)
Sacramento State, Portland State, Eastern Washington, Idaho State, Weber State, Montana, Montana State, North Dakota, Seattle (non football), Idaho (FBS football)

WAC (8/10)
Northern Arizona, Southern Utah, Northern Colorado, Grand Canyon (no football), Bakersfield (no football), Utah Valley (no football), Cal Poly (FCS football only), UC Davis (FCS football only), Abilene Christian, Incarnate Word, Houston Baptist, UTRGV (no football)

Southland (8/10)
Stephen F. Austin, Sam Houston State, Lamar, Central Arkansas, Northwestern State, Nicholls State, McNeese State, Southeastern Louisiana, New Orleans (no football), Texas A&M Corpus Christi (no football)

This takes 2 of the the stronger leagues in FCS (Southland and Big Sky) and creates a third league with an AQ to the FCS playoffs. Most of the WAC's new members already have some relationship with the league as an affiliate member in at least one sport. The Big Sky and Southland slim down to 10 members from 12 and 13, respectively. The Texas schools heading to the WAC can now schedule their former Southland foes in out-of-conference play, which should help mitigate their increased travel expenses. The WAC also has connections to both Texas and California, which should allow its members to recruit productively.

Chicago State and UMKC presumably would have found more geographically appropriate homes as a part of this reorganization, but if they are unable to leave, they can form a division of six schools in the Central Time Zone, and the six schools in the Mountain and Pacific Time Zones form the other division. It should be noted that UMKC is actually closer to the University of Northern Colorado than they are to the schools in Texas in this proposed alignment for the WAC, so UMKC could very well stay.

All three conferences would be able to transition members from Division II as they saw fit, and all three conferences could provide a home for a football program if their candidate school sponsors one. Any Big West, Summit League, or West Coast Conference school that chooses to sponsor scholarship FCS football would also have an additional option for affiliate membership.

Problem with that is that MWC could be picked apart with their top programs. Sacramento State, Eastern Washington, Montana, Montana State, Cal-Poly, Cal-Davis, SFA, Sam Houston State, Lamar and McNeese State all could go to FBS.
Long Beach State and Wichita State also looking to join MWC including in adding football if they had to.

Seattle was rumored that they could start a football program up.
Grand Canyon U. could start sports programs soon as well.
Utah Valley could add women's soccer and add football at the same time.
UTRGV said they would look into football after they get their new name and look in place.
New Orleans got into the Southland because they were supposed to start football this year. It is in a holding pattern right now with a start date tbd.
Texas A&M-C.C. said they might start football as well.

Now, the issue with your idea would not work when several schools could be joining the FBS ranks in the future.

D2 call ups could fit in the scenerio like Humboldt State, Azusa Pacific (top football in the west at D2.), Western Oregon, Dixie State, Simon Fraser, Western Washington, Montana State-Billings, Mary's ND, Colorado Mines, Clorado-Mesa, Colorado State-Pueblo, New Mexico Highlands, West Texas A&M, Western Washington, NW Nazarene Idaho, Chaminade to the Big West, Central Washington, Washburn, Midwestern State, Metro State, Angelo State, Texas A&M-Kingsville, Tarleton State, Texas-A&M-Commerce, Central Oklahoma, Fort Hays State, Nebraska-Kearney, Western State, Adams State (Revenge of The Nerds reference), Fort Lewis, Westminster, Concordia Oregon, St. Martin's and so forth. I would like to see NCAA give a waiver to OKCU since they were former D1 and now in the NAIA because of money issues. They were looking into adding football, and filed paperwork to join D1 before the new rules took place.

(08-16-2015 09:21 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  The Sun Belt actually has some pretty good programs in it. If you could combine: Louisiana, Arkansas State, Southern Miss, UAB, Middle Tenn, WKU, GA Southern, GA State, FIU, FAU, Coastal, App, Charlotte, and Old Dominion. Into one conference you would be the MAC of the south. A great regional conference that can play it's bigger brother (SEC) in non-conference and come out with some wins.

I could add Jacksonville State, Central Arkansas, South alabama, Troy, McNeese State and at times Missouri State as well.

(08-17-2015 12:51 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-16-2015 09:21 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  The Sun Belt actually has some pretty good programs in it. If you could combine: Louisiana, Arkansas State, Southern Miss, UAB, Middle Tenn, WKU, GA Southern, GA State, FIU, FAU, Coastal, App, Charlotte, and Old Dominion. Into one conference you would be the MAC of the south. A great regional conference that can play it's bigger brother (SEC) in non-conference and come out with some wins.

I could add Jacksonville State, Central Arkansas, South alabama, Troy, McNeese State and at times Missouri State as well.

Missouri State, USA and Troy maybe. The rest are not in the same class and not close.

Who would aim to be the mac of the south? Some really lofty goals there.

(08-17-2015 01:44 PM)Crump1 Wrote:  

(08-17-2015 12:51 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-16-2015 09:21 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  The Sun Belt actually has some pretty good programs in it. If you could combine: Louisiana, Arkansas State, Southern Miss, UAB, Middle Tenn, WKU, GA Southern, GA State, FIU, FAU, Coastal, App, Charlotte, and Old Dominion. Into one conference you would be the MAC of the south. A great regional conference that can play it's bigger brother (SEC) in non-conference and come out with some wins.

I could add Jacksonville State, Central Arkansas, South alabama, Troy, McNeese State and at times Missouri State as well.

Missouri State, USA and Troy maybe. The rest are not in the same class and not close.

Central Arkansas almost beat Texas Tech last year. That is why I including them since they could hold their own.
Jacksonville State on there because they beat Ol' Miss a few years ago.
McNeese State almost beat Nebraska last year.
La.-Monroe beat Arkansas.

(08-17-2015 02:07 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-17-2015 01:44 PM)Crump1 Wrote:  

(08-17-2015 12:51 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-16-2015 09:21 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  The Sun Belt actually has some pretty good programs in it. If you could combine: Louisiana, Arkansas State, Southern Miss, UAB, Middle Tenn, WKU, GA Southern, GA State, FIU, FAU, Coastal, App, Charlotte, and Old Dominion. Into one conference you would be the MAC of the south. A great regional conference that can play it's bigger brother (SEC) in non-conference and come out with some wins.

I could add Jacksonville State, Central Arkansas, South alabama, Troy, McNeese State and at times Missouri State as well.

Missouri State, USA and Troy maybe. The rest are not in the same class and not close.

Central Arkansas almost beat Texas Tech last year. That is why I including them since they could hold their own.
Jacksonville State on there because they beat Ol' Miss a few years ago.
McNeese State almost beat Nebraska last year.
La.-Monroe beat Arkansas.

You just don't get it...You have to have the support, potential attendance, facilities and the financial ability to move to FBS. Go talk about how Arkansas Tech might make the leap to the Southland.

(08-17-2015 01:44 PM)Crump1 Wrote:  

(08-17-2015 12:51 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-16-2015 09:21 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  The Sun Belt actually has some pretty good programs in it. If you could combine: Louisiana, Arkansas State, Southern Miss, UAB, Middle Tenn, WKU, GA Southern, GA State, FIU, FAU, Coastal, App, Charlotte, and Old Dominion. Into one conference you would be the MAC of the south. A great regional conference that can play it's bigger brother (SEC) in non-conference and come out with some wins.

I could add Jacksonville State, Central Arkansas, South alabama, Troy, McNeese State and at times Missouri State as well.

Missouri State, USA and Troy maybe. The rest are not in the same class and not close.

David ST...did you get that...not even close.

(08-17-2015 12:49 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Problem with that is that MWC could be picked apart with their top programs. Sacramento State, Eastern Washington, Montana, Montana State, Cal-Poly, Cal-Davis, SFA, Sam Houston State, Lamar and McNeese State all could go to FBS.
Long Beach State and Wichita State also looking to join MWC including in adding football if they had to.

Seattle was rumored that they could start a football program up.
Grand Canyon U. could start sports programs soon as well.
Utah Valley could add women's soccer and add football at the same time.
UTRGV said they would look into football after they get their new name and look in place.
New Orleans got into the Southland because they were supposed to start football this year. It is in a holding pattern right now with a start date tbd.
Texas A&M-C.C. said they might start football as well.

Now, the issue with your idea would not work when several schools could be joining the FBS ranks in the future.

D2 call ups could fit in the scenerio like Humboldt State, Azusa Pacific (top football in the west at D2.), Western Oregon, Dixie State, Simon Fraser, Western Washington, Montana State-Billings, Mary's ND, Colorado Mines, Clorado-Mesa, Colorado State-Pueblo, New Mexico Highlands, West Texas A&M, Western Washington, NW Nazarene Idaho, Chaminade to the Big West, Central Washington, Washburn, Midwestern State, Metro State, Angelo State, Texas A&M-Kingsville, Tarleton State, Texas-A&M-Commerce, Central Oklahoma, Fort Hays State, Nebraska-Kearney, Western State, Adams State (Revenge of The Nerds reference), Fort Lewis, Westminster, Concordia Oregon, St. Martin's and so forth. I would like to see NCAA give a waiver to OKCU since they were former D1 and now in the NAIA because of money issues. They were looking into adding football, and filed paperwork to join D1 before the new rules took place.

Where are these Mountain West schools going to go? Boise State is the only one with any serious consideration for a P5 conference.

No more than one of those Division II schools with football will be moving up in the next 10 years. The ones that are most capable, Central Washington and Central Oklahoma, have shown zero interest in Division I. Most of them are simply too small to be Division I. There is also not enough room in the Southland and Big Sky to accommodate any meaningful number of move-ups - something like the plan I proposed would need to be implemented so you don't have 16 teams fighting for one bid to the Big Dance and one bid to the FCS playoffs.

Schools like Utah Valley and Grand Canyon would need the WAC to steal Big Sky and Southland schools to be able to start FCS football themselves - there is no room at the inn elsewhere, until the WAC builds a new inn.