(07-26-2015 12:41 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(07-26-2015 12:31 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-26-2015 12:23 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(07-26-2015 12:08 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The left keeps believing that they can increase costs, increase taxes, and impose ever more intrusive regulations on businesses and investors with no blowback. And those businesses and investors keep moving investment and jobs overseas to get lower costs, lower taxes, and less intrusive regulations. I wonder if the penny will ever drop.

How about we pay our workers the same as they do in China? We can then compete in the world marketplace. We can then lower taxes on the corps and the wealthy in hopes that they spend the extra money creating more jobs.

How about we not? Germany doesn't pay its workers the same as China, and they compete in the world marketplace. Typical BS Robert comment.

The current German minimum wage is 8.50 euros, or just less than $9.40. So why are we asking for $15 instead of $9.50?

Because when you negotiate, you start high. I am pretty sure that Bernie knows that $15/hour won't fly(unless it is over a long duration to get there) in the Congress or Senate so it gives him room to negotiate.

(07-25-2015 10:44 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 06:41 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 05:44 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  $15/hr minimum wage. It's all relative. If you owe money (like students and people with mortgages) then ultimately this will help in the long run. Everything else has dramatically increased in price over the last 15 years, minimum wage has not kept pace. On the other hand if you are older and trying to save money, it's horrible because your dollar will become less valuable. Ultimately, I think that you have to lean toward the side of the younger worker because they are the future. As a business owner, I would not mind raising my prices significantly which have not changed in 20 years.

Whenever people with student loans or mortgages are making the minimum wage, there has been a colossal screw up somewhere. Think about it. That simply should not happen.

If the minimum wage goes up and all prices rise significantly, how is anyone better off? And remember this, all prices are labor. The minimum wages goes up, the fast food joint immediately feels the labor price increase. But what about the hamburger patty? Where does its cost come from? Did you pay the steer anything? Or is all the cost tied up in paying the people who fed the steer and turned the steer into that patty and then got that patty to you? All costs are labor costs, so when the cost of labor goes up, so does every cost. The minimum wage in Denmark is set by contract rather than law, and runs around $20. A Big Mac will run you $10 (50 Kr), or $14 (69 Kr) if you get it with medium fries and a coke. A burger in a regular restaurant is $25-30 (125-150 Kr). So you basically work half an hour at the minimum wage to get a Big Mac, almost the same as here. If changing the numbers on the money gives you a thrill, so be it. But how are you better off?

And that wouldn't be so bad except for retired people who are on fixed incomes. If you think about it, this is a cash grab from the wealthy old folks. The quickest way to redistribute the wealth of old fogies is to make their money worth less.

Not really a cash grab. Either way somebody gets screwed. Old people's savings disappears or you steal young people's labor.

(07-26-2015 12:41 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(07-26-2015 12:31 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-26-2015 12:23 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(07-26-2015 12:08 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The left keeps believing that they can increase costs, increase taxes, and impose ever more intrusive regulations on businesses and investors with no blowback. And those businesses and investors keep moving investment and jobs overseas to get lower costs, lower taxes, and less intrusive regulations. I wonder if the penny will ever drop.

How about we pay our workers the same as they do in China? We can then compete in the world marketplace. We can then lower taxes on the corps and the wealthy in hopes that they spend the extra money creating more jobs.

How about we not? Germany doesn't pay its workers the same as China, and they compete in the world marketplace. Typical BS Robert comment.

The current German minimum wage is 8.50 euros, or just less than $9.40. So why are we asking for $15 instead of $9.50?

You have to ask for $15 in order to get $9.50. Negotiations 101.

(07-25-2015 06:06 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  The Bottom Line is if Minimum wage is $15 an Hour, It's still Minimum Wage. Where will it ever end. When You are at the Bottom of the Food Chain You will never be happy . EVER !

The dollar number really doesn't matter. $15, $150, $1500. They are just numbers that you assign a value to.

And Hillary's approval rating continues to slip down to 43%, with a disapproval rating of 48%. Those kind of numbers don't get ya elected.

(07-26-2015 07:26 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  And Hillary's approval rating continues to slip down to 43%, with a disapproval rating of 48%. Those kind of numbers don't get ya elected.

#ridinwitbiden

(07-26-2015 07:53 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  

(07-26-2015 07:26 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  And Hillary's approval rating continues to slip down to 43%, with a disapproval rating of 48%. Those kind of numbers don't get ya elected.

#ridinwitbiden

Oh yes, please...please Joe, run...please.

We could end up with a situation where neither party has a candidate that people like.

I think there is something badly broken about our system, and this election is starting to confirm that.

(07-26-2015 09:30 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  We could end up with a situation where neither party has a candidate that people like.

I think there is something badly broken about our system, and this election is starting to confirm that.

That's most election years.

(07-25-2015 10:44 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  And that wouldn't be so bad except for retired people who are on fixed incomes. If you think about it, this is a cash grab from the wealthy old folks. The quickest way to redistribute the wealth of old fogies is to make their money worth less.

Which is why I have pretty much decided that I am never going to retire. That, plus I don't want to give up my employer-provided health insurance and be subject to Obmacare.

(07-26-2015 12:23 AM)RobertN Wrote:  How about we pay our workers the same as they do in China? We can then compete in the world marketplace. We can then lower taxes on the corps and the wealthy in hopes that they spend the extra money creating more jobs.

We don't have to pay workers the same as China is order to compete. Lots of countries compete with similar wages to ours. We were competitive in the 1950s and 1960s with the highest wages in the world. But we offset those high wages with tax and regulatory policies that favored investment back then. We don't now.

What we need to do is something. We can't be the worst country for costs AND the worst country for taxes AND the worst country for regulatory hassle and compete. What would you change to make us more competitive?

I'd say keep wages and salaries high, cut taxes to world standard or below, and streamline (not eliminate, streamline) regulations. Keep useful regulations, get rid of counter-productive regulations (including all those that exist primarily to ensure jobs for bureaucrats), and eliminate useless procedural hassles.

We are still the world's most politically and economically stable country regardless of what you read on Facebook.

(07-25-2015 11:50 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(07-25-2015 11:24 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  How many of these piss-poor social experiments have to fail before liberals realize you cant just hand someone something, it has to be earned.

Liberal politicians know damn well how this works. They know that they've raised minimum wage over and over for decades and the people earning it are worse off than they were then.

But its a cheap ploy to trot out before every election cycle...a bribe to low information voters with something that somebody else has to pay for.

They are not dumb, but their bleeding heart followers lap that stuff up and have the memory of gnats.

I thought this was interesting.


The CBO estimated in February 2014 that raising the minimum wage to $10.10 and indexing it to inflation would improve income inequality. Families with income more than 6 times the poverty threshold (for a family of four that would be those making over $145,500 a year) would see their incomes fall (due in part to their business profits declining with higher employee costs), while families with incomes below that threshold (most families) would rise.

(07-26-2015 12:36 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(07-25-2015 11:50 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(07-25-2015 11:24 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  How many of these piss-poor social experiments have to fail before liberals realize you cant just hand someone something, it has to be earned.

Liberal politicians know damn well how this works. They know that they've raised minimum wage over and over for decades and the people earning it are worse off than they were then.

But its a cheap ploy to trot out before every election cycle...a bribe to low information voters with something that somebody else has to pay for.

They are not dumb, but their bleeding heart followers lap that stuff up and have the memory of gnats.

I thought this was interesting.


The CBO estimated in February 2014 that raising the minimum wage to $10.10 and indexing it to inflation would improve income inequality. Families with income more than 6 times the poverty threshold (for a family of four that would be those making over $145,500 a year) would see their incomes fall (due in part to their business profits declining with higher employee costs), while families with incomes below that threshold (most families) would rise.

We have more unskilled labor than there is demand for it.

When you have too much of something that not enough people are buying....the solution is NOT to raise the price and import even more of it from Mexico.

Think about that. It's insane.

(07-26-2015 12:50 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(07-26-2015 12:36 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(07-25-2015 11:50 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(07-25-2015 11:24 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  How many of these piss-poor social experiments have to fail before liberals realize you cant just hand someone something, it has to be earned.

Liberal politicians know damn well how this works. They know that they've raised minimum wage over and over for decades and the people earning it are worse off than they were then.

But its a cheap ploy to trot out before every election cycle...a bribe to low information voters with something that somebody else has to pay for.

They are not dumb, but their bleeding heart followers lap that stuff up and have the memory of gnats.

I thought this was interesting.


The CBO estimated in February 2014 that raising the minimum wage to $10.10 and indexing it to inflation would improve income inequality. Families with income more than 6 times the poverty threshold (for a family of four that would be those making over $145,500 a year) would see their incomes fall (due in part to their business profits declining with higher employee costs), while families with incomes below that threshold (most families) would rise.

We have more unskilled labor than there is demand for it.

When you have too much of something that not enough people are buying....the solution is NOT to raise the price and import even more of it from Mexico.

Think about that. It's insane.

Then why are there so many undocumented immigrants in the country?

(07-26-2015 12:53 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(07-26-2015 12:50 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(07-26-2015 12:36 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(07-25-2015 11:50 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(07-25-2015 11:24 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  How many of these piss-poor social experiments have to fail before liberals realize you cant just hand someone something, it has to be earned.

Liberal politicians know damn well how this works. They know that they've raised minimum wage over and over for decades and the people earning it are worse off than they were then.

But its a cheap ploy to trot out before every election cycle...a bribe to low information voters with something that somebody else has to pay for.

They are not dumb, but their bleeding heart followers lap that stuff up and have the memory of gnats.

I thought this was interesting.


The CBO estimated in February 2014 that raising the minimum wage to $10.10 and indexing it to inflation would improve income inequality. Families with income more than 6 times the poverty threshold (for a family of four that would be those making over $145,500 a year) would see their incomes fall (due in part to their business profits declining with higher employee costs), while families with incomes below that threshold (most families) would rise.

We have more unskilled labor than there is demand for it.

When you have too much of something that not enough people are buying....the solution is NOT to raise the price and import even more of it from Mexico.

Think about that. It's insane.

Then why are there so many undocumented immigrants in the country?

You are missing the point.

If there were a shortage of unskilled labor, then the price would naturally rise as employers tried to compete for workers. Workers would have leverage.

Who do you think wants a surplus of unskilled labor? Corporations, US Chamber of Commerce, politicians who want people dependent on their patronage, and dumb bleeding hearts.

This is real simple. Arbitrarily raising the price of unneeded unskilled labor....while importing even more of it...is a recipe for trouble....not higher standards of living.

(07-22-2015 06:53 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  Seattle is raising the minimum wage, as you suggest. Employees are now reducing their hours to keep their income the same, that way they can keep their government subsidies for food, rent, and child care.

Good for them. That gives them more time to attend protests for the $25 minimum wage.

(07-26-2015 12:53 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(07-26-2015 12:50 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(07-26-2015 12:36 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(07-25-2015 11:50 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(07-25-2015 11:24 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  How many of these piss-poor social experiments have to fail before liberals realize you cant just hand someone something, it has to be earned.

Liberal politicians know damn well how this works. They know that they've raised minimum wage over and over for decades and the people earning it are worse off than they were then.

But its a cheap ploy to trot out before every election cycle...a bribe to low information voters with something that somebody else has to pay for.

They are not dumb, but their bleeding heart followers lap that stuff up and have the memory of gnats.

I thought this was interesting.


The CBO estimated in February 2014 that raising the minimum wage to $10.10 and indexing it to inflation would improve income inequality. Families with income more than 6 times the poverty threshold (for a family of four that would be those making over $145,500 a year) would see their incomes fall (due in part to their business profits declining with higher employee costs), while families with incomes below that threshold (most families) would rise.

We have more unskilled labor than there is demand for it.

When you have too much of something that not enough people are buying....the solution is NOT to raise the price and import even more of it from Mexico.

Think about that. It's insane.

Then why are there so many undocumented immigrants in the country?

According to your own numbers, apparently half of them are here receiving free Obamacare.

I guess I'm lucky Owl. I retired at 53 and kept my employer insurance. Thank God.

(07-26-2015 02:36 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  I guess I'm lucky Owl. I retired at 53 and kept my employer insurance. Thank God.

You're ok as long as its not so-called cadillac plan. If it is, be prepared. That part of the law is coming up soon.