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Bernie introduces fed legislation: $15/hr wage.
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Bernie introduces fed legislation: $15/hr wage.
(07-23-2015 08:28 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  
(07-23-2015 06:36 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  
(07-23-2015 06:29 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  
(07-23-2015 05:56 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  
(07-23-2015 05:44 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  $15/hr minimum wage. It's all relative. If you owe money (like students and people with mortgages) then ultimately this will help in the long run. Everything else has dramatically increased in price over the last 15 years, minimum wage has not kept pace. On the other hand if you are older and trying to save money, it's horrible because your dollar will become less valuable. Ultimately, I think that you have to lean toward the side of the younger worker because they are the future. As a business owner, I would not mind raising my prices significantly which have not changed in 20 years.

huh????

and I want to know why a min wage earner should have a mortgage.....

at least your one-liners can be funny at times.....

I'm not talking about min wage earners.

Minimum wage increases cause increases in wages down the line. Once you raise it to $15/hr, you then have to pay the current $15/hr employee a lot more (~$30) to keep pace. If you are an employee making $50,000 and have a $200,000 mortgage, it will be much easier paying that off when the minimum wage increases because your salary will increase.

you only addressed one point, but I'll play.....

using your theory, wouldn't home building costs increase in tandem?

so screwing future homeowners by inflating home prices is the way to go?

btw, if you make 50k and have a 200k mortgage, your lender should be hawgtied and quartered...

I fail to see a net positive effect.....

Sorry, I thought that you actually wanted to have a serious discussion. Please tell me again why the lender should be "hawgtied and quartered" for lending $200,000k to a 2 income household where one person makes $50,000/year?

Future homeowners are not screwed. Future homebuilders are screwed. Doesn't really change the cost of old construction.

where did "employee" become 2 wage earners....and if so, would be combined (which would make sense to min wage X 2 in your scenario)

it's your premise dipshite....prove what you think you can prove.....told ya I was game.....

you can't have a serious discussion....it's beyond your ability....
07-23-2015 12:29 PM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Bernie introduces fed legislation: $15/hr wage.
(07-22-2015 07:37 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(07-22-2015 06:53 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  Seattle is raising the minimum wage, as you suggest. Employees are now reducing their hours to keep their income the same, that way they can keep their government subsidies for food, rent, and child care.

Hard to find a stronger indictment of the "welfare trap" than that.

This is why we need to reform our welfare system. Not the democrat approach of throwing ever more and more money into failed programs. Not the republican approach of keeping the failed programs, just spending less on them. But a whole new approach that gets rid of failed programs right and left and replaces them with something totally different.

I propose a single universal program consisting of an guaranteed minimum income based on either Milton Friedman's negative income tax or the Boortz-Linder prebate/prefund, plus French Bismarck health care, funded with consumption taxes.

....have stated I'm on board with Owl for Prez!

the problem is.....ya can't get it back....one minute manager, 'spoil 'em and it's over' concept....(assuming you've read that....if not, it's worth reading the 110 plus pages)

has held true all my life.....
(This post was last modified: 07-25-2015 05:51 PM by stinkfist.)
07-25-2015 05:50 PM
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CardFan1 Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Bernie introduces fed legislation: $15/hr wage.
The Bottom Line is if Minimum wage is $15 an Hour, It's still Minimum Wage. Where will it ever end. When You are at the Bottom of the Food Chain You will never be happy . EVER !
07-25-2015 06:06 PM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Bernie introduces fed legislation: $15/hr wage.
Raise the minimum wage to $1,000,000 an hour. I no longer care. Trying to explain supply and demand curves and price floors to people who want to legislate economic "fairness" because of "compassion" is a waste of time.
07-25-2015 07:08 PM
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dawgitall Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Bernie introduces fed legislation: $15/hr wage.
I think it would be important to compare the buying power of the minimum wage in say 1960 with the buying power in 2015. If I'm not mistaken it is considerably less today. The minimum wage should be based on that. This doesn't have to be that complicated.
07-25-2015 07:58 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Bernie introduces fed legislation: $15/hr wage.
(07-25-2015 07:58 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  I think it would be important to compare the buying power of the minimum wage in say 1960 with the buying power in 2015. If I'm not mistaken it is considerably less today. The minimum wage should be based on that. This doesn't have to be that complicated.

But what you don't understand is buying power is directly connected to what companies have to pay in wages.

Raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour and you are A. relying on a business owner to decide to eat the loss of money in their pocket to pay the wages and keep the prices down or B. raise his prices to overcome the loss of income due to the higher wages. What do you think is going to happen?


Most small business owners I know are already operating at a tight profit margin as is....raise the minimum wage and they have to either raise prices or close their doors.
07-25-2015 08:24 PM
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #47
Re: RE: Bernie introduces fed legislation: $15/hr wage.
(07-25-2015 07:08 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  Raise the minimum wage to $1,000,000 an hour. I no longer care. Trying to explain supply and demand curves and price floors to people who want to legislate economic "fairness" because of "compassion" is a waste of time.


This
07-25-2015 10:03 PM
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #48
Re: RE: Bernie introduces fed legislation: $15/hr wage.
(07-25-2015 08:24 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(07-25-2015 07:58 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  I think it would be important to compare the buying power of the minimum wage in say 1960 with the buying power in 2015. If I'm not mistaken it is considerably less today. The minimum wage should be based on that. This doesn't have to be that complicated.

But what you don't understand is buying power is directly connected to what companies have to pay in wages.

Raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour and you are A. relying on a business owner to decide to eat the loss of money in their pocket to pay the wages and keep the prices down or B. raise his prices to overcome the loss of income due to the higher wages. What do you think is going to happen?


Most small business owners I know are already operating at a tight profit margin as is....raise the minimum wage and they have to either raise prices or close their doors.

Unemployment will skyrocket
07-25-2015 10:04 PM
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Bernie introduces fed legislation: $15/hr wage.
(07-22-2015 06:29 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  If we did that, the guy who flips your burger would be worth more than $7.25.
Actually, I would suspect they would get paid substantially less which is why a number of corporate types are for getting rid of the min wage and there are so many against eliminating the min wage.
07-25-2015 10:05 PM
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Bernie introduces fed legislation: $15/hr wage.
(07-23-2015 10:11 AM)Stick4489 Wrote:  Why only $15? Why not $20? $50? $100? $1000?

Seriously. If increasing the minimum wage is a good thing to do, then why not increase it even more?
Seriously, I have never understood those ridiculous comments. Nobody is asking to become wealthy or even substantially into the middle class. They are asking for enough to provide housing, transportation and food. I personally think $15/hour is too high for he most part(outside SF, NYC etc) unless it is over numerous years.
07-25-2015 10:28 PM
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geosnooker2000 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Bernie introduces fed legislation: $15/hr wage.
(07-23-2015 06:41 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(07-23-2015 05:44 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  $15/hr minimum wage. It's all relative. If you owe money (like students and people with mortgages) then ultimately this will help in the long run. Everything else has dramatically increased in price over the last 15 years, minimum wage has not kept pace. On the other hand if you are older and trying to save money, it's horrible because your dollar will become less valuable. Ultimately, I think that you have to lean toward the side of the younger worker because they are the future. As a business owner, I would not mind raising my prices significantly which have not changed in 20 years.

Whenever people with student loans or mortgages are making the minimum wage, there has been a colossal screw up somewhere. Think about it. That simply should not happen.

If the minimum wage goes up and all prices rise significantly, how is anyone better off? And remember this, all prices are labor. The minimum wages goes up, the fast food joint immediately feels the labor price increase. But what about the hamburger patty? Where does its cost come from? Did you pay the steer anything? Or is all the cost tied up in paying the people who fed the steer and turned the steer into that patty and then got that patty to you? All costs are labor costs, so when the cost of labor goes up, so does every cost. The minimum wage in Denmark is set by contract rather than law, and runs around $20. A Big Mac will run you $10 (50 Kr), or $14 (69 Kr) if you get it with medium fries and a coke. A burger in a regular restaurant is $25-30 (125-150 Kr). So you basically work half an hour at the minimum wage to get a Big Mac, almost the same as here. If changing the numbers on the money gives you a thrill, so be it. But how are you better off?

And that wouldn't be so bad except for retired people who are on fixed incomes. If you think about it, this is a cash grab from the wealthy old folks. The quickest way to redistribute the wealth of old fogies is to make their money worth less.
07-25-2015 10:44 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Bernie introduces fed legislation: $15/hr wage.
I want to know what the lib's answer is going to be when the corporations like Walmart (who is already operating at a 3.5% profit margin as it is) raise prices to answer rising wages, thus defeating the purpose of raising wages to begin with.
07-25-2015 10:48 PM
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UofMstateU Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Bernie introduces fed legislation: $15/hr wage.
How many of these piss-poor social experiments have to fail before liberals realize you cant just hand someone something, it has to be earned.
07-25-2015 11:24 PM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Bernie introduces fed legislation: $15/hr wage.
(07-25-2015 10:28 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(07-23-2015 10:11 AM)Stick4489 Wrote:  Why only $15? Why not $20? $50? $100? $1000?

Seriously. If increasing the minimum wage is a good thing to do, then why not increase it even more?
Seriously, I have never understood those ridiculous comments. Nobody is asking to become wealthy or even substantially into the middle class. They are asking for enough to provide housing, transportation and food. I personally think $15/hour is too high for he most part(outside SF, NYC etc) unless it is over numerous years.
Why not? If you can legislate unskilled labor to be worth more than the market dictates why can't you legislate unskilled labor to be worth a billion more than the market dictates?
07-25-2015 11:45 PM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Bernie introduces fed legislation: $15/hr wage.
(07-25-2015 11:24 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  How many of these piss-poor social experiments have to fail before liberals realize you cant just hand someone something, it has to be earned.
Liberal politicians know damn well how this works. They know that they've raised minimum wage over and over for decades and the people earning it are worse off than they were then.

But its a cheap ploy to trot out before every election cycle...a bribe to low information voters with something that somebody else has to pay for.

They are not dumb, but their bleeding heart followers lap that stuff up and have the memory of gnats.
07-25-2015 11:50 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Bernie introduces fed legislation: $15/hr wage.
The left keeps believing that they can increase costs, increase taxes, and impose ever more intrusive regulations on businesses and investors with no blowback. And those businesses and investors keep moving investment and jobs overseas to get lower costs, lower taxes, and less intrusive regulations. I wonder if the penny will ever drop.
07-26-2015 12:08 AM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Bernie introduces fed legislation: $15/hr wage.
(07-26-2015 12:08 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The left keeps believing that they can increase costs, increase taxes, and impose ever more intrusive regulations on businesses and investors with no blowback. And those businesses and investors keep moving investment and jobs overseas to get lower costs, lower taxes, and less intrusive regulations. I wonder if the penny will ever drop.

Someone else said it but I have to agree. I don't agree with everything you say but I'd get behind Owl 69 for 2016.
07-26-2015 12:21 AM
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Bernie introduces fed legislation: $15/hr wage.
(07-26-2015 12:08 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The left keeps believing that they can increase costs, increase taxes, and impose ever more intrusive regulations on businesses and investors with no blowback. And those businesses and investors keep moving investment and jobs overseas to get lower costs, lower taxes, and less intrusive regulations. I wonder if the penny will ever drop.
How about we pay our workers the same as they do in China? We can then compete in the world marketplace. We can then lower taxes on the corps and the wealthy in hopes that they spend the extra money creating more jobs.
(This post was last modified: 07-26-2015 12:23 AM by RobertN.)
07-26-2015 12:23 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Bernie introduces fed legislation: $15/hr wage.
(07-26-2015 12:23 AM)RobertN Wrote:  
(07-26-2015 12:08 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The left keeps believing that they can increase costs, increase taxes, and impose ever more intrusive regulations on businesses and investors with no blowback. And those businesses and investors keep moving investment and jobs overseas to get lower costs, lower taxes, and less intrusive regulations. I wonder if the penny will ever drop.
How about we pay our workers the same as they do in China? We can then compete in the world marketplace. We can then lower taxes on the corps and the wealthy in hopes that they spend the extra money creating more jobs.

How about we not? Germany doesn't pay its workers the same as China, and they compete in the world marketplace. Typical BS Robert comment.
07-26-2015 12:31 AM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Bernie introduces fed legislation: $15/hr wage.
(07-26-2015 12:31 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(07-26-2015 12:23 AM)RobertN Wrote:  
(07-26-2015 12:08 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The left keeps believing that they can increase costs, increase taxes, and impose ever more intrusive regulations on businesses and investors with no blowback. And those businesses and investors keep moving investment and jobs overseas to get lower costs, lower taxes, and less intrusive regulations. I wonder if the penny will ever drop.
How about we pay our workers the same as they do in China? We can then compete in the world marketplace. We can then lower taxes on the corps and the wealthy in hopes that they spend the extra money creating more jobs.

How about we not? Germany doesn't pay its workers the same as China, and they compete in the world marketplace. Typical BS Robert comment.

The current German minimum wage is 8.50 euros, or just less than $9.40. So why are we asking for $15 instead of $9.50?
07-26-2015 12:41 AM
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