(07-09-2015 10:51 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  But it's not quantity, it's quality. Bush beats all POTUS on Iraq alone.

Beats LBJ's persistence in Vietnam?

58,220 American deaths in Vietnam vs. 4,486 American deaths in Iraq.

(07-09-2015 10:54 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 10:51 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  But it's not quantity, it's quality. Bush beats all POTUS on Iraq alone.

Beats LBJ's persistence in Vietnam?

58,220 American deaths in Vietnam vs. 4,486 American deaths in Iraq.

Vietnam wasn't fabricated

(07-09-2015 11:04 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 10:54 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 10:51 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  But it's not quantity, it's quality. Bush beats all POTUS on Iraq alone.

Beats LBJ's persistence in Vietnam?

58,220 American deaths in Vietnam vs. 4,486 American deaths in Iraq.

Vietnam wasn't fabricated

Oh right, because if we didn't lose 58,000 Americans in Vietnam, communism would've taken a stranglehold on the world.

Communism domino effect.
Weapons of Mass Destruction.

Both bull****.

(07-09-2015 11:10 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 11:04 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 10:54 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 10:51 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  But it's not quantity, it's quality. Bush beats all POTUS on Iraq alone.

Beats LBJ's persistence in Vietnam?

58,220 American deaths in Vietnam vs. 4,486 American deaths in Iraq.

Vietnam wasn't fabricated

Oh right, because if we didn't lose 58,000 Americans in Vietnam, communism would've taken a stranglehold on the world.

Communism domino effect.
Weapons of Mass Destruction.

Both bull****.

Vietnam and Iraq both have the same problem.
Never fight a war that you don't intend to win.
In to win, or don't go in.

I'm proud of my state.

(07-09-2015 12:55 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 11:10 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 11:04 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 10:54 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 10:51 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  But it's not quantity, it's quality. Bush beats all POTUS on Iraq alone.

Beats LBJ's persistence in Vietnam?

58,220 American deaths in Vietnam vs. 4,486 American deaths in Iraq.

Vietnam wasn't fabricated

Oh right, because if we didn't lose 58,000 Americans in Vietnam, communism would've taken a stranglehold on the world.

Communism domino effect.
Weapons of Mass Destruction.

Both bull****.

Vietnam and Iraq both have the same problem.
Never fight a war that you don't intend to win.
In to win, or don't go in.

Sometime hard to do when ghe successor abandons the strategy and walks away to appease a base.

(07-09-2015 02:20 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 12:55 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 11:10 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 11:04 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 10:54 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  Beats LBJ's persistence in Vietnam?

58,220 American deaths in Vietnam vs. 4,486 American deaths in Iraq.

Vietnam wasn't fabricated

Oh right, because if we didn't lose 58,000 Americans in Vietnam, communism would've taken a stranglehold on the world.

Communism domino effect.
Weapons of Mass Destruction.

Both bull****.

Vietnam and Iraq both have the same problem.
Never fight a war that you don't intend to win.
In to win, or don't go in.

Sometime hard to do when ghe successor abandons the strategy and walks away to appease a base.

Or because we could lose another 58,000 lives and still be in the same situation years later.

(07-09-2015 02:33 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 02:20 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 12:55 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 11:10 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 11:04 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Vietnam wasn't fabricated

Oh right, because if we didn't lose 58,000 Americans in Vietnam, communism would've taken a stranglehold on the world.

Communism domino effect.
Weapons of Mass Destruction.

Both bull****.

Vietnam and Iraq both have the same problem.
Never fight a war that you don't intend to win.
In to win, or don't go in.

Sometime hard to do when ghe successor abandons the strategy and walks away to appease a base.

Or because we could lose another 58,000 lives and still be in the same situation years later.

I was speaking to the more recent of the conflicts.

Vietnam was an easy with if the obstructionist politicians had gotten out of the way. Once it was clear they never would there wasn't anything to do but cut losses and get out.

Vietnam was the first war shown on tv every night on the news. Once Americans saw war first hand they realized what they were sending their children into. That's why Bush tried to stop it.

(07-09-2015 02:33 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 02:20 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 12:55 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 11:10 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 11:04 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Vietnam wasn't fabricated

Oh right, because if we didn't lose 58,000 Americans in Vietnam, communism would've taken a stranglehold on the world.

Communism domino effect.
Weapons of Mass Destruction.

Both bull****.

Vietnam and Iraq both have the same problem.
Never fight a war that you don't intend to win.
In to win, or don't go in.

Sometime hard to do when ghe successor abandons the strategy and walks away to appease a base.

Or because we could lose another 58,000 lives and still be in the same situation years later.

We could have won in Vietnam in two weeks if we wanted to. We didn't want to.

(07-09-2015 05:33 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 02:33 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 02:20 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 12:55 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 11:10 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  Oh right, because if we didn't lose 58,000 Americans in Vietnam, communism would've taken a stranglehold on the world.

Communism domino effect.
Weapons of Mass Destruction.

Both bull****.

Vietnam and Iraq both have the same problem.
Never fight a war that you don't intend to win.
In to win, or don't go in.

Sometime hard to do when ghe successor abandons the strategy and walks away to appease a base.

Or because we could lose another 58,000 lives and still be in the same situation years later.

We could have won in Vietnam in two weeks if we wanted to. We didn't want to.

Leveling north Vietnam would not have been a win.

(07-09-2015 05:46 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 05:33 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 02:33 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 02:20 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 12:55 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Vietnam and Iraq both have the same problem.
Never fight a war that you don't intend to win.
In to win, or don't go in.

Sometime hard to do when ghe successor abandons the strategy and walks away to appease a base.

Or because we could lose another 58,000 lives and still be in the same situation years later.

We could have won in Vietnam in two weeks if we wanted to. We didn't want to.

Leveling north Vietnam would not have been a win.

It would have been a win for the people of South Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos.

(07-09-2015 05:46 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 05:33 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 02:33 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 02:20 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 12:55 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Vietnam and Iraq both have the same problem.
Never fight a war that you don't intend to win.
In to win, or don't go in.

Sometime hard to do when ghe successor abandons the strategy and walks away to appease a base.

Or because we could lose another 58,000 lives and still be in the same situation years later.

We could have won in Vietnam in two weeks if we wanted to. We didn't want to.

Leveling north Vietnam would not have been a win.

Sure it would have been. They were the enemy and we would have defeated them. That's the goal of war.

(07-09-2015 05:33 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 02:33 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 02:20 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 12:55 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 11:10 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  Oh right, because if we didn't lose 58,000 Americans in Vietnam, communism would've taken a stranglehold on the world.

Communism domino effect.
Weapons of Mass Destruction.

Both bull****.

Vietnam and Iraq both have the same problem.
Never fight a war that you don't intend to win.
In to win, or don't go in.

Sometime hard to do when ghe successor abandons the strategy and walks away to appease a base.

Or because we could lose another 58,000 lives and still be in the same situation years later.

We could have won in Vietnam in two weeks if we wanted to. We didn't want to.

There are a lot of ignorant comments on forums like this one. This is one of them.

And to think today Vietnam is one of our stronger allies in the region. You establish trade and let the market do your diplomacy.

(07-09-2015 12:57 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  I'm proud of my state.

The state of east carolina

(07-09-2015 11:04 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 10:54 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 10:51 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  But it's not quantity, it's quality. Bush beats all POTUS on Iraq alone.

Beats LBJ's persistence in Vietnam?

58,220 American deaths in Vietnam vs. 4,486 American deaths in Iraq.

Vietnam wasn't fabricated

Gulf of Tonkin, anyone?

(07-09-2015 09:46 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 11:04 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 10:54 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(07-09-2015 10:51 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  But it's not quantity, it's quality. Bush beats all POTUS on Iraq alone.

Beats LBJ's persistence in Vietnam?

58,220 American deaths in Vietnam vs. 4,486 American deaths in Iraq.

Vietnam wasn't fabricated

Gulf of Tonkin, anyone?

Good old Nixon. LMFAO

Umm, Nixon had exactly zero to do with Gulf of Tonkin.

And I know people who were there who insist that there was nothing fabricated about it. The problem with Vietnam is that we never fought it to win.