(05-14-2015 02:12 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-14-2015 08:34 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Finally, I don't know how EW, Portland and Sac feel about joining the BW in all sports. I know some Sac message board posters have been absolutely against it, preferring the Big Sky and hoping for the WAC (back when it was still a major conference).

Pretty sure the Big West has not shown interest in Sacramento State. Maybe because Big West member UC Davis is only 10 miles away.

Sac St, Portland St, and Cal St- Northridge joined in the 90s as urban replacements for Nevada, Boise, and Idaho. The urban experiment never really took off. Northridge ended up dropping football. The Big West was an FBS conference at the time, so it was never an option as Sac St wanted FCS. Sac St and Port St are only now getting their basketball facilities into the 20th Century, as they've played in effectively junior high gyms.

UND and NDSU approached the Big Sky in the 70s and 90s about joining. The Montana's were in favor, but not the other membership.

(05-14-2015 10:03 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  I tend to think that if the Valley approached AState wanting to form a football league and they were interested in taking four better Sun Belt and four better MAC (or some other higher ratio of Sun Belt vs. MAC) that the leadership would look at it very hard.

The SBC only has 1 school that would be attractive to the MVC...Arkansas State. Everyone else is a serious push in geography.

Would the MVC necessarily need 8 current FBS schools? Could they take in 6 schools and move a couple more up using the 2 year waiver?

The MVC adds Ark State, NIU, Ball State, Toledo, Ohio and Miami. Then using the wavier moved up Illinois State and Missouri State as ready to go FBS schools.

A 16 team MVC with 5 schools in Illinois (NIU, SIU, Illinois St, Bradley, Loyola) would be creating the A10 of the Midwest with football or in other words the ultimate G5 conference. It would be highly stable as a G5 against raids with that basketball being 3-4 NCAA bids a year.

The MAC would be all but finished in this scenario with the remaining schools unable to reload with MVC schools since that is now a better football conference and unattractive to any FCS upgrade short EKU or Youngstown.

(05-14-2015 08:34 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Finally, I don't know how EW, Portland and Sac feel about joining the BW in all sports. I know some Sac message board posters have been absolutely against it, preferring the Big Sky and hoping for the WAC (back when it was still a major conference).

They like the idea of playing in a conference with schools from other states instead of all California schools regardless of possible recognition of those in-state schools by alumni.

There is some notion that beyond the mega brands of the P5, playing in a multi-state conference has that big time feel when the 1 or 2 state conferences feel more like Division II conferences.

Example conferences are the OVC as a Kentucky/Tennessee conference or the NEC or Southland. Some of the alumni of those schools aren't even sure they are Division I.

(05-14-2015 09:50 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(05-14-2015 10:03 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  I tend to think that if the Valley approached AState wanting to form a football league and they were interested in taking four better Sun Belt and four better MAC (or some other higher ratio of Sun Belt vs. MAC) that the leadership would look at it very hard.

The SBC only has 1 school that would be attractive to the MVC...Arkansas State. Everyone else is a serious push in geography.

Would the MVC necessarily need 8 current FBS schools? Could they take in 6 schools and move a couple more up using the 2 year waiver?

The MVC adds Ark State, NIU, Ball State, Toledo, Ohio and Miami. Then using the wavier moved up Illinois State and Missouri State as ready to go FBS schools.

A 16 team MVC with 5 schools in Illinois (NIU, SIU, Illinois St, Bradley, Loyola) would be creating the A10 of the Midwest with football or in other words the ultimate G5 conference. It would be highly stable as a G5 against raids with that basketball being 3-4 NCAA bids a year.

The MAC would be all but finished in this scenario with the remaining schools unable to reload with MVC schools since that is now a better football conference and unattractive to any FCS upgrade short EKU or Youngstown.

Have to start with 8 to become an FBS league. If you fall below then you have two year grace period, but have to get the FBS designation for the league in order to invite FCS to upgrade.

(05-14-2015 09:27 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(05-14-2015 06:02 AM)MJG Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 08:32 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Are there issues that all FBS schools can vote on, but FCS and non-football schools cannot? Because that's the only thing I can think of right now.

Look at the Sun Belt TV is like 100k a year this past year is the first for the CFP.
Somehow members Ark ST and ULL have built up facilities and thrived of late.
That is with almost no conference revenue and losing histories. Arkansas St won its first bowl game in 2012 twenty years after moving up. Their facilities are among the best in the G5 and they have three straight bowl wins. ULL is basically the same with the first bowl being in 2011 and four straight wins. They struggled as an independent for years. How did these schools survive with no CFP money sometimes no conference ?

Ark St. and ULL were able to develop as soon the minute CUSA left ESPN.

It was those CUSA ESPN games that benefited the school like USM and UAB even out on the recruiting field. In the 90's that whole conference was full of Boise State's.

Also the Top 16 rule for BCS Busters and Boise State's BCS wins helped schools like Ark State and ULL convince recruits they had just as much chance as anyone.

The changes have really hurt Southern Miss as they are just another G5 school among many in the South. In the early 90's there wasn't so much competition in the South at the G5 level.....Tulane, Memphis, USM and East Carolina were about it.

The bad news for Sun Belt and MAC is this.

Our AD said tonight that at the last CFP meeting executives from Disney were there and said based on their data from MAC and Sun Belt games, Tuesday could be the single biggest night for college football if the power leagues would play those nights.

Just what we need, the ACC or Big XII playing Tuesday nights to maximize revenue.

(05-14-2015 10:58 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  The bad news for Sun Belt and MAC is this.

Our AD said tonight that at the last CFP meeting executives from Disney were there and said based on their data from MAC and Sun Belt games, Tuesday could be the single biggest night for college football if the power leagues would play those nights.

Just what we need, the ACC or Big XII playing Tuesday nights to maximize revenue.

If they do take that leap and the ratings are big, the NFL will just start playing games on Tuesday night. Why wouldn't they? They're getting $300 million a year from CBS for just 8 Thursday games; they could sell a 16-game package on Tuesday night for at least $600 million/year. Then these college teams will have all the hassle of Tuesday games but with the same small TV audiences that colleges now get on Thursday opposite the NFL.

(05-14-2015 09:46 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(05-14-2015 02:12 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-14-2015 08:34 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Finally, I don't know how EW, Portland and Sac feel about joining the BW in all sports. I know some Sac message board posters have been absolutely against it, preferring the Big Sky and hoping for the WAC (back when it was still a major conference).

Pretty sure the Big West has not shown interest in Sacramento State. Maybe because Big West member UC Davis is only 10 miles away.

Sac St, Portland St, and Cal St- Northridge joined in the 90s as urban replacements for Nevada, Boise, and Idaho. The urban experiment never really took off. Northridge ended up dropping football. The Big West was an FBS conference at the time, so it was never an option as Sac St wanted FCS. Sac St and Port St are only now getting their basketball facilities into the 20th Century, as they've played in effectively junior high gyms.

UND and NDSU approached the Big Sky in the 70s and 90s about joining. The Montana's were in favor, but not the other membership.

If the BW ever revived football that would ease a lot of concerns for Sac State. I included EWU and Portland State because of their location on the west coast.

One interesting note: Idaho, Boise and Cal Poly all joined the Big West in 1996. Idaho and Boise moved their football teams up to FBS, Cal Poly did not.

(05-13-2015 11:16 AM)MJG Wrote:  The FBS Big Sky scenario usually includes the Dakota schools.

Maybe Idaho ,EWU,UND and the Montana schools could join the Summit instead.
That is if rules are changed and schools are allowed to move up.
The Summit could get raided and be in jeopardy since they have nine members.
Losing two would allow the Summit to invite five and retain its auto bid in basketball.

UNI and U Mass would be football only candidates.

UND
NDSU
SDSU
USD
Montana
Montana ST
Idaho
EWU included because they are aggressive and funding stadium expansion.

Omaha and Denver would be ideal Olympic only sports members.


Besides the obvious rules changes ( save that argument the scenario is based on rules being changed) does it make sense? Compared to the BSC split with members joining the WAC. The WAC could take the Summits non football schools to pair with UMKC and Chicago ST. The MVFC could take any member staying FCS.

Travel is not great in this part of the country but this would be an improvement for most.

If Idaho has to plead its FBS case before the NCAA to prevent being an independent, it will use the Big Sky's current membership as an FBS option, as it is a member. That is my premise why Idaho joined the Big Sky, as it normally requires football, which Idaho did has not brought to the table. Idaho is not now nor will ever be a Summit member, nor does it have interest, nor does the Summit League even sponsor football.

(05-14-2015 07:27 PM)FargoBison Wrote:  I don't get why people keep putting USD in an FBS conference, the school is located in a tiny town and they play in a dump of a stadium. The level that they support football is very low.

NDSU, Montana and Montana State are really the only schools in the western FCS that could make the jump. After that SDSU, MSU and UNI would be the next tier. Things get really murky the further you go...UND and EWU don't even have FBS worthy facilities. I guess EWU at least has a plan to expand theirs.

USD won't fall behind SDSU. Yeah, Vermilion is in the extreme SE of SD, USD is building an arena for BB, so its dome can then be renovated to seat more than 15 k. Its dome is basically the same as UNIs. They and SDSU have T Denney Sanford, a billionaire who has pledged to give away much of his fortune, underwriting new projects. Seems the whole state of SD should be renamed Sanford Dakota.

EWU has its gateway project, UCDavis has plans for a bowl and a second deck, Cal Poly has plans to double its stadium capacity, and UND has well healed donors prepared to give if the need arises.

(05-15-2015 01:30 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(05-14-2015 09:46 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(05-14-2015 02:12 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-14-2015 08:34 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Finally, I don't know how EW, Portland and Sac feel about joining the BW in all sports. I know some Sac message board posters have been absolutely against it, preferring the Big Sky and hoping for the WAC (back when it was still a major conference).

Pretty sure the Big West has not shown interest in Sacramento State. Maybe because Big West member UC Davis is only 10 miles away.

Sac St, Portland St, and Cal St- Northridge joined in the 90s as urban replacements for Nevada, Boise, and Idaho. The urban experiment never really took off. Northridge ended up dropping football. The Big West was an FBS conference at the time, so it was never an option as Sac St wanted FCS. Sac St and Port St are only now getting their basketball facilities into the 20th Century, as they've played in effectively junior high gyms.

UND and NDSU approached the Big Sky in the 70s and 90s about joining. The Montana's were in favor, but not the other membership.

If the BW ever revived football that would ease a lot of concerns for Sac State. I included EWU and Portland State because of their location on the west coast.

One interesting note: Idaho, Boise and Cal Poly all joined the Big West in 1996. Idaho and Boise moved their football teams up to FBS, Cal Poly did not.

Cal Poly football lanquished for years because it played such a hodge lodge schedule of FBS, FCS, DII, and NAIA opponents. Only recently with the Great West and Big Sky football schedules has it done well for the DI move.

Can see the Big West sponsoring lax, but never resurrecting football.

(05-15-2015 02:43 AM)NoDak Wrote:  Cal Poly football lanquished for years because it played such a hodge lodge schedule of FBS, FCS, DII, and NAIA opponents. Only recently with the Great West and Big Sky football schedules has it done well for the DI move.

Can see the Big West sponsoring lax, but never resurrecting football.

I've always wondered why that was the case, why Cal Poly held their football back when Idaho and Boise both went all in after ditching the Big Sky. Maybe they thought the BW would be their long term home? 19 years and counting.

While six current members and potential future member UCSD all have club lacrosse teams, I don't think we're in the market right now to make it a varsity sport.

(05-15-2015 02:30 AM)NoDak Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 11:16 AM)MJG Wrote:  The FBS Big Sky scenario usually includes the Dakota schools.

Maybe Idaho ,EWU,UND and the Montana schools could join the Summit instead.
That is if rules are changed and schools are allowed to move up.
The Summit could get raided and be in jeopardy since they have nine members.
Losing two would allow the Summit to invite five and retain its auto bid in basketball.

UNI and U Mass would be football only candidates.

UND
NDSU
SDSU
USD
Montana
Montana ST
Idaho
EWU included because they are aggressive and funding stadium expansion.

Omaha and Denver would be ideal Olympic only sports members.


Besides the obvious rules changes ( save that argument the scenario is based on rules being changed) does it make sense? Compared to the BSC split with members joining the WAC. The WAC could take the Summits non football schools to pair with UMKC and Chicago ST. The MVFC could take any member staying FCS.

Travel is not great in this part of the country but this would be an improvement for most.

If Idaho has to plead its FBS case before the NCAA to prevent being an independent, it will use the Big Sky's current membership as an FBS option, as it is a member. That is my premise why Idaho joined the Big Sky, as it normally requires football, which Idaho did has not brought to the table. Idaho is not now nor will ever be a Summit member, nor does it have interest, nor does the Summit League even sponsor football.

The Summit if raided which is possible and down to seven or eight would be easier possibly. Considering three Dakota schools are already in it . They also don't have any schools that would stay FCS . Idaho would need NMSU and maybe Army and U Mass as partners in pleading that case.

I wouldn't get too hung up on FBS membership requirements, or even the rules about creating new FBS conferences. If these 8 schools came together and said they're creating a new FBS conference, they'd be allowed to do so. Literally nobody cares if a bunch of northern schools want to call themselves FBS--they won't share in playoff money, and it means more non-FCS bodybag games for the rest of the FBS.

Meanwhile, moving up as a group is potentially hugely beneficial for the members of this new conference. Rather than individually joining FBS conferences and going from 0 or 1 FBS opponents annually up to 11 is difficult. With this arrangement, there'd only be 1 non-transitional FBS program in the conference (Idaho), and the rest would all be figuring it out as they go. With a 7-game conference schedule, it would permit each school to figure out how aggressively it wants to schedule FBS teams in the non-conference. NDSU might want to more home games and might schedule 2 or more FCS schools initially, while USD might want the paychecks for bodybag games and might play a bunch of road nonconference games against FBS opponents. The important thing is that each school will be able to choose a scheduling strategy that works for them.

it is interesting that so many of these scenarios involve Northern Iowa moving up from FCS to FBS. Although I know the idea has been discussed by UNI administration but when it comes down to it, they are the ideal size for FCS.

although you can argue the 15,000 attendence rule is meaningless, it can still be a good criteria for whether an FCS school is a good candidate for moving up.

UNI has an attendence of 12,000 playing in a little domed stadium with a capacity of little over 15,000. They are a medium sized school in terms of students. Iowa is a low population state and a low growth state that already has 2 FBS schools.

Everything just screams that UNI is exactly at the level it should be at.

If anything, you could argue half the teams in the MAC and Sunbelt should be playing at the FCS level too. At least UNI is smart enough to recognize its ideal level.

(05-15-2015 10:17 AM)goofus Wrote:  it is interesting that so many of these scenarios involve Northern Iowa moving up from FCS to FBS. Although I know the idea has been discussed by UNI administration but when it comes down to it, they are the ideal size for FCS.

although you can argue the 15,000 attendence rule is meaningless, it can still be a good criteria for whether an FCS school is a good candidate for moving up.

UNI has an attendence of 12,000 playing in a little domed stadium with a capacity of little over 15,000. They are a medium sized school in terms of students. Iowa is a low population state and a low growth state that already has 2 FBS schools.

Everything just screams that UNI is exactly at the level it should be at.

If anything, you could argue half the teams in the MAC and Sunbelt should be playing at the FCS level too. At least UNI is smart enough to recognize its ideal level.

and you could say probably half C-USA, and a couple in the AAC. Not that it is true, but you could say it.

Some schools, like some people simply want to compete at the highest level, but some don't.

Another thing is with the COA kicking in very few FBS caliber football players will chose to go FCS unless they have no choice, and not that many of them do now. Even the worse FBS program should have more talent than any FCS team in the near future.

(05-15-2015 10:17 AM)goofus Wrote:  it is interesting that so many of these scenarios involve Northern Iowa moving up from FCS to FBS. Although I know the idea has been discussed by UNI administration but when it comes down to it, they are the ideal size for FCS.

although you can argue the 15,000 attendence rule is meaningless, it can still be a good criteria for whether an FCS school is a good candidate for moving up.

UNI has an attendence of 12,000 playing in a little domed stadium with a capacity of little over 15,000. They are a medium sized school in terms of students. Iowa is a low population state and a low growth state that already has 2 FBS schools.

Everything just screams that UNI is exactly at the level it should be at.

If anything, you could argue half the teams in the MAC and Sunbelt should be playing at the FCS level too. At least UNI is smart enough to recognize its ideal level.

That is twelve thousand actual attendance which equals 16500 in the lower tier FBS world. Seems like they could add end zone seating at one end at least . When it comes to play off money the G5 could be locked out. Since they won't be participating in the playoffs.That is a bigger threat than a G6 future conference in twelve years.

(05-15-2015 12:26 PM)MJG Wrote:  

(05-15-2015 10:17 AM)goofus Wrote:  it is interesting that so many of these scenarios involve Northern Iowa moving up from FCS to FBS. Although I know the idea has been discussed by UNI administration but when it comes down to it, they are the ideal size for FCS.

although you can argue the 15,000 attendence rule is meaningless, it can still be a good criteria for whether an FCS school is a good candidate for moving up.

UNI has an attendence of 12,000 playing in a little domed stadium with a capacity of little over 15,000. They are a medium sized school in terms of students. Iowa is a low population state and a low growth state that already has 2 FBS schools.

Everything just screams that UNI is exactly at the level it should be at.

If anything, you could argue half the teams in the MAC and Sunbelt should be playing at the FCS level too. At least UNI is smart enough to recognize its ideal level.

That is twelve thousand actual attendance which equals 16500 in the lower tier FBS world. Seems like they could add end zone seating at one end at least . When it comes to play off money the G5 could be locked out. Since they won't be participating in the playoffs.That is a bigger threat than a G6 future conference in twelve years.

???