Okay, MWC adds North Dakota State, Northern Iowa. Missouri State and Illinois State as football only members. Then they can break off and form a new FBS conference with Idaho and New Mexico State. Then bring up the rest.
---------

I like the way you are thinking. but its probably more realistic to get the MAC to agree to some kind of temporary deal to take NDSU, SDSU, UNI, Mizz St, SIU, and ILL St. for football only for 2 transition years.

Then they can break off and form a new FBS conference along with NMSU and Idaho.

Call it the Missouri Valley Football Bowl Subdivision Conference, or MVFBSC

(05-13-2015 03:49 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 11:16 AM)MJG Wrote:  The FBS Big Sky scenario usually includes the Dakota schools.

Maybe Idaho ,EWU,UND and the Montana schools could join the Summit instead.
That is if rules are changed and schools are allowed to move up.
The Summit could get raided and be in jeopardy since they have nine members.
Losing two would allow the Summit to invite five and retain its auto bid in basketball.

UNI and U Mass would be football only candidates.

UND
NDSU
SDSU
USD
Montana
Montana ST
Idaho
EWU included because they are aggressive and funding stadium expansion.

Omaha and Denver would be ideal Olympic only sports members.


Besides the obvious rules changes ( save that argument the scenario is based on rules being changed) does it make sense? Compared to the BSC split with members joining the WAC. The WAC could take the Summits non football schools to pair with UMKC and Chicago ST. The MVFC could take any member staying FCS.

Travel is not great in this part of the country but this would be an improvement for most.

The MVC supposedly tried to merge with the old WAC when they were down to four teams, Idaho, Seattle, Denver, and NMSU, according to WAC commish Hurd. It didn't happen because Idaho and Seattle would have been ejected.

Slummit football teams have refused the play football under a Summit umbrella, as they all want to move to the MVC. The MVFC deludes them into thinking their with the big boys now. UNI, Ill St, and Mo St want FBS, but not at the expense of basketball.

UND and USd tried to get the Slummit to start football. The Summit hemmed and hawed for years, leading us on. Finally, when the Big Sky offered, we took it and the Summit can stick it, because they nearly left our football program out to dry. That reason, and the lies about the Sioux name, are the reasons the Summit is the Slummit.

Relations between the Summit and UND are not good, and only if we called the shots (get rid of their commish being the first), would UND even consider.

I'm not sure if your post qualifies as historical fiction or fictional history.

One of those two.

(05-13-2015 05:40 PM)msu_bears Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 05:03 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  As I've said before.

The Valley has a number of schools who have made a little bit of noise about contemplating FBS. Find 8 FBS schools to join and they don't have to worry about any of those schools defecting.

1) UAB joins MVC
2) MVC gets permission to start FBS conference.
3) Wichita St and UAB restart football programs
4) MSU, UNI, Ill State agree to move up. (that makes 5 teams).
5) recruit WKU to be 12th basketball school and 6th football school.
6) consider NDSU as a football only FBS member
7) free agents UMASS, Idaho, and NMSU are considered as football only members
8) After a few years the hybrid splits.
9) NDSU and NMSU are invited as a full members.
10) Indy St makes commitment to move up.
11) SIU decides it can't afford it.
12) MVC-FBS goes after WKU, N. Illinois, and Arkansas St, etc
13) The MFVC is absorbed by the Summit league.
14) The remaining MVC basketball schools merge with the horizon.

in 2025: The Valley Conference

Missouri Valley Division: Missouri State, Wichita State, NDSU, Illinois State, Indiana State, Northern Iowa

South Valley Division: UAB, NMSU,Arkansas State, Texas St, Louisiana-Layff, Western Kentucky

Where does Drake go?

(05-13-2015 03:53 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 03:45 PM)MJG Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 11:16 AM)MJG Wrote:  The FBS Big Sky scenario usually includes the Dakota schools.

Maybe Idaho ,EWU,UND and the Montana schools could join the Summit instead.
That is if rules are changed and schools are allowed to move up.
The Summit could get raided and be in jeopardy since they have nine members.
Losing two would allow the Summit to invite five and retain its auto bid in basketball.

UNI and U Mass would be football only candidates.

UND
NDSU
SDSU
USD
Montana
Montana ST
Idaho
EWU included because they are aggressive and funding stadium expansion.

Omaha and Denver would be ideal Olympic only sports members.


Besides the obvious rules changes ( save that argument the scenario is based on rules being changed) does it make sense? Compared to the BSC split with members joining the WAC. The WAC could take the Summits non football schools to pair with UMKC and Chicago ST. The MVFC could take any member staying FCS.

Travel is not great in this part of the country but this would be an improvement for most.

I forgot to add NMSU and Army as football only members.
Rules would need to be changed they change all the time.
I think if we can start paying athletes FBS transition rules can change.
Locking out whole sections of the country is wrong.
Forcing schools to join conferences that are bad fits makes no sense.

Yes rules do get changed all the time. They changed the rules where you could be an FBS conference with only six members and none had to be in the same all-sports league to requiring eight FBS all-sports members to be an FBS league. They changed the rules allowing you to move from Division II to Division I as an indy or from FCS to FBS as an indy to requiring a conference invite.

Rules change but the probability of changing to make it easier to move up is pretty slim.

I get what your saying but if no path exist something almost has to change. A bunch of schools would not be FBS if they needed and invite. You can lock schools out of the P5 or G5.
I don't think you can lock every future school with FBS plans out. How that changes is anyone's guess.

(05-13-2015 06:34 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 05:40 PM)msu_bears Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 05:03 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  As I've said before.

The Valley has a number of schools who have made a little bit of noise about contemplating FBS. Find 8 FBS schools to join and they don't have to worry about any of those schools defecting.

1) UAB joins MVC
2) MVC gets permission to start FBS conference.
3) Wichita St and UAB restart football programs
4) MSU, UNI, Ill State agree to move up. (that makes 5 teams).
5) recruit WKU to be 12th basketball school and 6th football school.
6) consider NDSU as a football only FBS member
7) free agents UMASS, Idaho, and NMSU are considered as football only members
8) After a few years the hybrid splits.
9) NDSU and NMSU are invited as a full members.
10) Indy St makes commitment to move up.
11) SIU decides it can't afford it.
12) MVC-FBS goes after WKU, N. Illinois, and Arkansas St, etc
13) The MFVC is absorbed by the Summit league.
14) The remaining MVC basketball schools merge with the horizon.

in 2025: The Valley Conference

Missouri Valley Division: Missouri State, Wichita State, NDSU, Illinois State, Indiana State, Northern Iowa

South Valley Division: UAB, NMSU,Arkansas State, Texas St, Louisiana-Layff, Western Kentucky

Where does Drake go?

looks like the plan is for the remaining MVC basketball schools to merge with the Horizon. The Horizon Valley?

With a cluster of schools near Spokane and another around South Dakota it would be good for rivalries.
The non football playing members play hockey which is good for UND and Denver and Omaha.

Football only prospects can stay in MVC, WAC or A10 everyone is happy.

There's a lot of fantasy in this thread.

I'm pretty sure the NCAA rules defining the requirements to be considered a Division I FBS conference, and to move up from FCS to FBS, are controlled by the NCAA member schools that play Division I football; the non-football schools don't vote on football matters.

Moreover, the Division I football-playing group is split roughly 50-50 between FBS and FCS schools. And for obvious reasons, the FBS schools have no reason to support rule changes that relax the current requirements. So any relaxation would require virtually all of the FCS schools to unite behind proposed rule changes.

So what are the chances of all of the FCS schools joining forces to advocate rule changes that make it easier to move up to FBS and to create new FBS conferences? In my view, slim and none. Those with aspirations to move up would be in favor of course, but the rest would be wary of the perceived further marginalization of FCS caused by more of the top FCS programs transitioning to FBS.

As arkstfan has already said, the rules may change, but if anything they're likely to become more rather than less restrictive.

Why would the P5 be against the G5 expanding? More schools means more options for them schedule, might even cut down on the amount they would need to payout for guarantee games if there is a greater supply.

(05-13-2015 06:20 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 03:49 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 11:16 AM)MJG Wrote:  The FBS Big Sky scenario usually includes the Dakota schools.

Maybe Idaho ,EWU,UND and the Montana schools could join the Summit instead.
That is if rules are changed and schools are allowed to move up.
The Summit could get raided and be in jeopardy since they have nine members.
Losing two would allow the Summit to invite five and retain its auto bid in basketball.

UNI and U Mass would be football only candidates.

UND
NDSU
SDSU
USD
Montana
Montana ST
Idaho
EWU included because they are aggressive and funding stadium expansion.

Omaha and Denver would be ideal Olympic only sports members.


Besides the obvious rules changes ( save that argument the scenario is based on rules being changed) does it make sense? Compared to the BSC split with members joining the WAC. The WAC could take the Summits non football schools to pair with UMKC and Chicago ST. The MVFC could take any member staying FCS.

Travel is not great in this part of the country but this would be an improvement for most.

The MVC supposedly tried to merge with the old WAC when they were down to four teams, Idaho, Seattle, Denver, and NMSU, according to WAC commish Hurd. It didn't happen because Idaho and Seattle would have been ejected.

Slummit football teams have refused the play football under a Summit umbrella, as they all want to move to the MVC. The MVFC deludes them into thinking their with the big boys now. UNI, Ill St, and Mo St want FBS, but not at the expense of basketball.

UND and USd tried to get the Slummit to start football. The Summit hemmed and hawed for years, leading us on. Finally, when the Big Sky offered, we took it and the Summit can stick it, because they nearly left our football program out to dry. That reason, and the lies about the Sioux name, are the reasons the Summit is the Slummit.

Relations between the Summit and UND are not good, and only if we called the shots (get rid of their commish being the first), would UND even consider.

I'm not sure if your post qualifies as historical fiction or fictional history.

One of those two.

W Ill president was put in charge of the football study. Nothing happened.

Just a history leson for someone who badly needs one and thinks the Slummit is the pinnacle of college athletics.

Are there issues that all FBS schools can vote on, but FCS and non-football schools cannot? Because that's the only thing I can think of right now.

(05-13-2015 08:24 PM)FargoBison Wrote:  Why would the P5 be against the G5 expanding? More schools means more options for them schedule, might even cut down on the amount they would need to payout for guarantee games if there is a greater supply.

Owning an BMW isn't as much fun if everyone else does too.

There is value in exclusivity. Americans like basketball, the NBA is continuing to grow in interest, basketball is up around 350 Division I schools and struggling to hold its interest.

(05-13-2015 05:03 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  As I've said before.

The Valley has a number of schools who have made a little bit of noise about contemplating FBS. Find 8 FBS schools to join and they don't have to worry about any of those schools defecting.

MVC could raid CUSA and a few SBC/MAC

Marshall, WKU, MTSU, Arkansas St, LaTech, UNT, Ohio, Miami

FCS upgrades: Wichita St, Missouri St, Northern Iowa, Illinois St.

West: UNT, Wichita St, Ark St, LaTech, Missouri St, Northern Iowa
East: Illinois St, Ohio, Miami, Marshall, WKU, MTSU

What might make more sense is focus more on bringing in the MAC.

Marshall, WKU, NIU, Arkansas St, Ball St, Toledo, Ohio, Miami

West: Wichita St, Ark St, Missouri St, Northern Iowa, Illinois St, NIU
East: Ball St, Ohio, Miami, Marshall, Western Ky, Toledo

(05-13-2015 10:50 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 08:24 PM)FargoBison Wrote:  Why would the P5 be against the G5 expanding? More schools means more options for them schedule, might even cut down on the amount they would need to payout for guarantee games if there is a greater supply.

Owning an BMW isn't as much fun if everyone else does too.

There is value in exclusivity. Americans like basketball, the NBA is continuing to grow in interest, basketball is up around 350 Division I schools and struggling to hold its interest.

More G5 schools isn't doing anything to hurt the P5's exclusivity.

College basketball isn't losing interest because of the number of schools, the sport has some issues it needs to work through but it mostly has to do with the actual games and one and dones.

Here's your new FBS league folks...

Coastal Division: Hawaii, UC Davis, Cal Poly, Portland State, Eastern Washington and Sacramento State
Inland: New Mexico State, Northern Arizona, UND (fb-only), North Dakota State (fb-only), Missouri State (fb-only) and Northern Iowa (fb-only)

And this "new" FBS league shall be called the Big West.


For basketball it goes like this:

BW south - Hawaii, New Mexico State, Northern Arizona, UC Irvine, Cal State Fullerton, UC Riverside, Cal State Northridge
BW north - Long Beach State, UC Santa Barbara, Cal Poly, UC Davis, Sacramento State, Portland State, Eastern Washington

I think we're done here

(05-14-2015 01:17 AM)FargoBison Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 10:50 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 08:24 PM)FargoBison Wrote:  Why would the P5 be against the G5 expanding? More schools means more options for them schedule, might even cut down on the amount they would need to payout for guarantee games if there is a greater supply.

Owning an BMW isn't as much fun if everyone else does too.

There is value in exclusivity. Americans like basketball, the NBA is continuing to grow in interest, basketball is up around 350 Division I schools and struggling to hold its interest.

More G5 schools isn't doing anything to hurt the P5's exclusivity.

College basketball isn't losing interest because of the number of schools, the sport has some issues it needs to work through but it mostly has to do with the actual games and one and dones.

The P5 isn't all that crazy about playing the G5, so I doubt they are excited about adding a bunch of extra FCS move ups to the current G5 crop. Then there is the issue of why a current G5 FBS conference would sign on to add a bunch of FCS schools just so the FCS schools can become FBS and compete against them for tv dollars. Plus, the G5 conference who does agree to the scheme ends up with half it's schedule being FCS transition schools for several years. That's not a exactly a recipe for building your ratings, season ticket base, or schedule strength. Basically, it's a bad deal for everyone except the FCS teams moving up.

That doesn't even address the posts where a bunch of G5 FBS teams would leave their established conferences with auto bids to create a new conference with no access to the CFP and no media deal. They are theoretically going to this just so they can go play with a bunch of FCS move ups.

Lots of wishful thinking and fantasy going on in this thread. None of this stuff is even remotely possible. Plus all theses scenarios ignore the biggest issue of all---most of these Big Sky and Summit schools are not particularly interested in moving up to FBS.

(05-14-2015 01:36 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The P5 isn't all that crazy about playing the G5, so I doubt they are excited about adding a bunch of extra FCS move ups glad the current crop. Then there is issue of why a current G5 FBS conference would sign on to add a bunch of FCS schools just so the FCS schools can become FBS and compete against them for tv dollars. Plus, the G5 conference would end up with half it's schedule being FCS transition schools for two years. That's not a recipe for building your ratings, season ticket base, or schedule strength. Basically, it's a bad deal for everyone except the FCS teams moving up.

That doesn't even address the posts where a bunch of G5 FBS teams would leave their established conferences with auto bids to create a new conference with no access to the CFP and no media deal. They are theoretically going to this just so they can go play with a bunch of FCS move ups.

Lots of wishful thinking and fantasy going on in this thread. None of this stuff is even remotely possible. Plus all theses scenarios ignore the biggest issue of all---most of these Big Sky and Summit schools are not particularly interested in moving up to FBS.

Nothing wrong with showing a little imagination

If folks are that determined to have a new FBS conference you could always have the Big West revive football. That would likely only require two or three FCS callups. Cal Poly and UC Davis moves up. Idaho, New Mexico State, Hawaii, and either three current MW members or Portland State + two MW members.

(05-14-2015 01:49 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(05-14-2015 01:36 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The P5 isn't all that crazy about playing the G5, so I doubt they are excited about adding a bunch of extra FCS move ups glad the current crop. Then there is issue of why a current G5 FBS conference would sign on to add a bunch of FCS schools just so the FCS schools can become FBS and compete against them for tv dollars. Plus, the G5 conference would end up with half it's schedule being FCS transition schools for two years. That's not a recipe for building your ratings, season ticket base, or schedule strength. Basically, it's a bad deal for everyone except the FCS teams moving up.

That doesn't even address the posts where a bunch of G5 FBS teams would leave their established conferences with auto bids to create a new conference with no access to the CFP and no media deal. They are theoretically going to this just so they can go play with a bunch of FCS move ups.

Lots of wishful thinking and fantasy going on in this thread. None of this stuff is even remotely possible. Plus all theses scenarios ignore the biggest issue of all---most of these Big Sky and Summit schools are not particularly interested in moving up to FBS.

Nothing wrong with showing a little imagination

If folks are that determined to have a new FBS conference you could always have the Big West revive football. That would likely only require two or three FCS callups. Cal Poly and UC Davis moves up. Idaho, New Mexico State, Hawaii, and either three current MW members or Portland State + two MW members.

UH leaving the MWC and a $1.6 million CFP payout to play against weaker competition for no payout? Not happening my friend.

If UAB is forced to leave C-USA, the quickest route to a new FBS conference may be through the Sun Belt. Missouri State and UAB (presuming UABOT eventually has to cave in restarting football) tell the Sun Belt they'll only do football-only. Future expansion hits and the Sun Belt then backfills with more football-only members from the MVC:

New Mexico State
Missouri State
UAB
Illinois State
Southern Illinois
Northern Iowa
North Dakota State
South Dakota State

Indiana State, Loyola Chicago, and Bradley join the Summit; Wichita State, Evansville, Drake, and Belmont/Murray State (whoever comes in with UAB) stay behind in the MVC.

(05-13-2015 08:32 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Are there issues that all FBS schools can vote on, but FCS and non-football schools cannot? Because that's the only thing I can think of right now.

I think any scenario that involves a current G5 school leaving a G5 conference is highly unlikely.
The invitation rule would need to be done away with obviously .
The NCAA implemented that rule to keep a school from playing three home games a year. Struggling to make a schedule a group moving up together solves this.

Look at the Sun Belt TV is like 100k a year this past year is the first for the CFP.
Somehow members Ark ST and ULL have built up facilities and thrived of late.
That is with almost no conference revenue and losing histories. Arkansas St won its first bowl game in 2012 twenty years after moving up. Their facilities are among the best in the G5 and they have three straight bowl wins. ULL is basically the same with the first bowl being in 2011 and four straight wins. They struggled as an independent for years. How did these schools survive with no CFP money sometimes no conference ?

I agree no scenario works under the current rules and FBS is almost closed .
The SBC could invite U Mass football only and C- USA stay at thirteen and no school could ever move up. Sun Belt fans don't like that either they want Missouri ST and JMU and would take UAB. MSU might be willing to hurt basketball to become FBS but its a tough choice.

(05-13-2015 08:32 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Are there issues that all FBS schools can vote on, but FCS and non-football schools cannot? Because that's the only thing I can think of right now.

(05-14-2015 06:02 AM)MJG Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 08:32 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Are there issues that all FBS schools can vote on, but FCS and non-football schools cannot? Because that's the only thing I can think of right now.

I think any scenario that involves a current G5 school leaving a G5 conference is highly unlikely.
The invitation rule would need to be done away with obviously .
The NCAA implemented that rule to keep a school from playing three home games a year. Struggling to make a schedule a group moving up together solves this.

Look at the Sun Belt TV is like 100k a year this past year is the first for the CFP.
Somehow members Ark ST and ULL have built up facilities and thrived of late.
That is with almost no conference revenue and losing histories. Arkansas St won its first bowl game in 2012 twenty years after moving up. Their facilities are among the best in the G5 and they have three straight bowl wins. ULL is basically the same with the first bowl being in 2011 and four straight wins. They struggled as an independent for years. How did these schools survive with no CFP money sometimes no conference ?

I agree no scenario works under the current rules and FBS is almost closed .
The SBC could invite U Mass football only and C- USA stay at thirteen and no school could ever move up. Sun Belt fans don't like that either they want Missouri ST and JMU and would take UAB. MSU might be willing to hurt basketball to become FBS but its a tough choice.

As far as A-State, winning in football has produced additional revenue streams for them to tap into.

Winning now allows them to invest in the things other schools invested in in order to win.

They are in a pretty good position when you consider that they are already in the top 20 as far as attendance, and recruiting among the G5's.

Football schools like GaSo, and AppSt can do what A-State did but most G5 FBS programs are not going to win, so that is obviously not the way for them to sustain much less grow their program.

As far as the FCS move ups, if C-USA had known the direction college athletics was going there would be a few less FBS programs today than there are. The only bad thing is had they known GaSo, and AppSt might still be FCS, and other than the MWC holding Boise, they will turn out to be the biggest 'gets', of any G5 conference as a result of realignment.

The SBC also benefited by getting ride of most of their under performing 'market' programs.