The FBS Big Sky scenario usually includes the Dakota schools.

Maybe Idaho ,EWU,UND and the Montana schools could join the Summit instead.
That is if rules are changed and schools are allowed to move up.
The Summit could get raided and be in jeopardy since they have nine members.
Losing two would allow the Summit to invite five and retain its auto bid in basketball.

UNI and U Mass would be football only candidates.

UND
NDSU
SDSU
USD
Montana
Montana ST
Idaho
EWU included because they are aggressive and funding stadium expansion.

Omaha and Denver would be ideal Olympic only sports members.


Besides the obvious rules changes ( save that argument the scenario is based on rules being changed) does it make sense? Compared to the BSC split with members joining the WAC. The WAC could take the Summits non football schools to pair with UMKC and Chicago ST. The MVFC could take any member staying FCS.

Travel is not great in this part of the country but this would be an improvement for most.

You cannot become an FBS conference under the current rules without eight existing FBS members. If the Summit can convince 8 existing FBS schools to defect and join, then they can become an FBS league and provide a path to FBS for any FCS they have.

Following the UMass-MAC precedent, they just need an existing FBS conference to join for football only, then withdraw after 1 year and go independent in FBS or start another FBS conference. if no existing FBS conference helps them move up, the WAC can start sponsoring FBS football again.

just the WAC, or any new FBS conference or any new independent will not get any CFP money.

(05-13-2015 01:23 PM)goofus Wrote:  Following the UMass-MAC precedent, they just need an existing FBS conference to join for football only, then withdraw after 1 year and go independent in FBS or start another FBS conference. if no existing FBS conference helps them move up, the WAC can start sponsoring FBS football again.

just the WAC, or any new FBS conference or any new independent will not get any CFP money.

No playoff money, but that's not a big deal. How long is the current playoff deal? Another decade? When the next playoff deal gets drawn up, the new conference can try to become a part of that deal. It's a long-term move that won't necessarily have immediate payoffs.

(05-13-2015 01:23 PM)goofus Wrote:  Following the UMass-MAC precedent, they just need an existing FBS conference to join for football only, then withdraw after 1 year and go independent in FBS or start another FBS conference. if no existing FBS conference helps them move up, the WAC can start sponsoring FBS football again.

just the WAC, or any new FBS conference or any new independent will not get any CFP money.

Southwest Conference and Big West both played in the BCS era as well. Southern, CAA, Southland and MVC were 1-a conference at one time but dropped down to 1-aa.

(05-13-2015 01:23 PM)goofus Wrote:  Following the UMass-MAC precedent, they just need an existing FBS conference to join for football only, then withdraw after 1 year and go independent in FBS or start another FBS conference. if no existing FBS conference helps them move up, the WAC can start sponsoring FBS football again.

just the WAC, or any new FBS conference or any new independent will not get any CFP money.

I don't think the WAC can do that anymore. They lost that opportunity when they failed to get back up to the minimum FBS standard of 8 teams during the 2 year grace period. I dont think the WAC can sponsor FBS football without getting 8 current FBS teams to join (unless there is a special rule I am unaware of). Otherwise, the grace period rule would not be needed since it would be irrelevant.

(05-13-2015 01:32 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 01:23 PM)goofus Wrote:  Following the UMass-MAC precedent, they just need an existing FBS conference to join for football only, then withdraw after 1 year and go independent in FBS or start another FBS conference. if no existing FBS conference helps them move up, the WAC can start sponsoring FBS football again.

just the WAC, or any new FBS conference or any new independent will not get any CFP money.

I don't think the WAC can do that anymore. They lost that opportunity when they failed to get back up to the minimum FBS standard of 8 teams during the 2 year grace period. I dont think the WAC can sponsor FBS football without getting 8 current FBS teams to join (unless there is a special rule I am unaware of).

WAC has history with one National Champ with BYU and a Heisman Winner in Ty Dettmer. Maybe get Idaho, New Mexico State, BYU, and maybe get San Jose State and UNLV back, then invite the 4 Dakota schools and Western Illinois for all sports. Mayba a Youngstown State for football only, Eastern Washington and some MVC schools like Missouri State and Northern Iowa. and Liberty.

(05-13-2015 11:16 AM)MJG Wrote:  UNI and U Mass would be football only candidates.

UND
NDSU
SDSU
USD
Montana
Montana ST
Idaho
EWU

This is a league structure that I think works really well with deregulation. The teams would likely be split into East-West divisions, with the winner of each division playing in a conference championship game. Not currently possible, but with deregulation, even with 8 teams, they'd host a CCG.

I also think a new western league has a decent chance at securing new bowl games at the new Minnesota Vikings stadium as well as the proposed UNLV stadium (on that note, the UNLV stadium might end up hosting the MWC and Pac-12 CCGs, plus as many as 3 bowl games someday).

Finally, this grouping of teams just seems to make sense. Idaho, Montana, and the Dakotas have a lot of shared history from the territorial days, and many of the states' cultural and economical roots are the same. I would imagine this would be a tightly knit conference with strong rivalries.

I'm thinking more like you can join FBS as long as you can produce an FBS schedule. Allowing schools transitioning to count solves scheduling problems. The Summit might be the best way to do this and keep an auto bid. This would not be a conference moving up. This would be independent schools moving up together and joining a non football conference. One that some members already belong to. Creating a decent conference for travel compared to what these schools are used to. Pretty strong academics and some rivalries are also a plus.

(05-13-2015 01:59 PM)Eichorst Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 11:16 AM)MJG Wrote:  UNI and U Mass would be football only candidates.

UND
NDSU
SDSU
USD
Montana
Montana ST
Idaho
EWU

This is a league structure that I think works really well with deregulation. The teams would likely be split into East-West divisions, with the winner of each division playing in a conference championship game. Not currently possible, but with deregulation, even with 8 teams, they'd host a CCG.

I also think a new western league has a decent chance at securing new bowl games at the new Minnesota Vikings stadium as well as the proposed UNLV stadium (on that note, the UNLV stadium might end up hosting the MWC and Pac-12 CCGs, plus as many as 3 bowl games someday).

Finally, this grouping of teams just seems to make sense. Idaho, Montana, and the Dakotas have a lot of shared history from the territorial days, and many of the states' cultural and economical roots are the same. I would imagine this would be a tightly knit conference with strong rivalries.

We know Northern Iowa wants FBS, and Missouri is expanding. We could think about West Texas A&M and Washburn which both were 1a at one time. Could throw in Colorado State-Pueblo for boot.

(05-13-2015 01:39 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 01:32 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 01:23 PM)goofus Wrote:  Following the UMass-MAC precedent, they just need an existing FBS conference to join for football only, then withdraw after 1 year and go independent in FBS or start another FBS conference. if no existing FBS conference helps them move up, the WAC can start sponsoring FBS football again.

just the WAC, or any new FBS conference or any new independent will not get any CFP money.

I don't think the WAC can do that anymore. They lost that opportunity when they failed to get back up to the minimum FBS standard of 8 teams during the 2 year grace period. I dont think the WAC can sponsor FBS football without getting 8 current FBS teams to join (unless there is a special rule I am unaware of).

WAC has history with one National Champ with BYU and a Heisman Winner in Ty Dettmer. Maybe get Idaho, New Mexico State, BYU, and maybe get San Jose State and UNLV back, then invite the 4 Dakota schools and Western Illinois for all sports. Mayba a Youngstown State for football only, Eastern Washington and some MVC schools like Missouri State and Northern Iowa. and Liberty.

Gotta have 8 current FBS schools to restart the WAC. None of the 8 can be transitionals (unless this is just another Big Sky to FBS fantasy thread--then just add UCLA, USC, Cal, Stanford, Arizona, and Arizona St to Idaho and New Mexico St to kick start the WAC).

(05-13-2015 01:32 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 01:23 PM)goofus Wrote:  Following the UMass-MAC precedent, they just need an existing FBS conference to join for football only, then withdraw after 1 year and go independent in FBS or start another FBS conference. if no existing FBS conference helps them move up, the WAC can start sponsoring FBS football again.

just the WAC, or any new FBS conference or any new independent will not get any CFP money.

I don't think the WAC can do that anymore. They lost that opportunity when they failed to get back up to the minimum FBS standard of 8 teams during the 2 year grace period. I dont think the WAC can sponsor FBS football without getting 8 current FBS teams to join (unless there is a special rule I am unaware of). Otherwise, the grace period rule would not be needed since it would be irrelevant.

That is correct. Once the grace period expired they were done.

(05-13-2015 01:39 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 01:32 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 01:23 PM)goofus Wrote:  Following the UMass-MAC precedent, they just need an existing FBS conference to join for football only, then withdraw after 1 year and go independent in FBS or start another FBS conference. if no existing FBS conference helps them move up, the WAC can start sponsoring FBS football again.

just the WAC, or any new FBS conference or any new independent will not get any CFP money.

I don't think the WAC can do that anymore. They lost that opportunity when they failed to get back up to the minimum FBS standard of 8 teams during the 2 year grace period. I dont think the WAC can sponsor FBS football without getting 8 current FBS teams to join (unless there is a special rule I am unaware of).

WAC has history with one National Champ with BYU and a Heisman Winner in Ty Dettmer. Maybe get Idaho, New Mexico State, BYU, and maybe get San Jose State and UNLV back, then invite the 4 Dakota schools and Western Illinois for all sports. Mayba a Youngstown State for football only, Eastern Washington and some MVC schools like Missouri State and Northern Iowa. and Liberty.

No one who was a member of the WAC when BYU won a national championship is a member of the WAC today. Nearly every power school in the south east of the Mississippi was once in the Southern doesn't mean their glory rubs off on the current members.

(05-13-2015 11:16 AM)MJG Wrote:  The FBS Big Sky scenario usually includes the Dakota schools.

Maybe Idaho ,EWU,UND and the Montana schools could join the Summit instead.
That is if rules are changed and schools are allowed to move up.
The Summit could get raided and be in jeopardy since they have nine members.
Losing two would allow the Summit to invite five and retain its auto bid in basketball.

UNI and U Mass would be football only candidates.

UND
NDSU
SDSU
USD
Montana
Montana ST
Idaho
EWU included because they are aggressive and funding stadium expansion.

Omaha and Denver would be ideal Olympic only sports members.


Besides the obvious rules changes ( save that argument the scenario is based on rules being changed) does it make sense? Compared to the BSC split with members joining the WAC. The WAC could take the Summits non football schools to pair with UMKC and Chicago ST. The MVFC could take any member staying FCS.

Travel is not great in this part of the country but this would be an improvement for most.

I forgot to add NMSU and Army as football only members.
Rules would need to be changed they change all the time.
I think if we can start paying athletes FBS transition rules can change.
Locking out whole sections of the country is wrong.
Forcing schools to join conferences that are bad fits makes no sense.

(05-13-2015 11:16 AM)MJG Wrote:  The FBS Big Sky scenario usually includes the Dakota schools.

Maybe Idaho ,EWU,UND and the Montana schools could join the Summit instead.
That is if rules are changed and schools are allowed to move up.
The Summit could get raided and be in jeopardy since they have nine members.
Losing two would allow the Summit to invite five and retain its auto bid in basketball.

UNI and U Mass would be football only candidates.

UND
NDSU
SDSU
USD
Montana
Montana ST
Idaho
EWU included because they are aggressive and funding stadium expansion.

Omaha and Denver would be ideal Olympic only sports members.


Besides the obvious rules changes ( save that argument the scenario is based on rules being changed) does it make sense? Compared to the BSC split with members joining the WAC. The WAC could take the Summits non football schools to pair with UMKC and Chicago ST. The MVFC could take any member staying FCS.

Travel is not great in this part of the country but this would be an improvement for most.

The MVC supposedly tried to merge with the old WAC when they were down to four teams, Idaho, Seattle, Denver, and NMSU, according to WAC commish Hurd. It didn't happen because Idaho and Seattle would have been ejected.

Slummit football teams have refused the play football under a Summit umbrella, as they all want to move to the MVC. The MVFC deludes them into thinking their with the big boys now. UNI, Ill St, and Mo St want FBS, but not at the expense of basketball.

UND and USd tried to get the Slummit to start football. The Summit hemmed and hawed for years, leading us on. Finally, when the Big Sky offered, we took it and the Summit can stick it, because they nearly left our football program out to dry. That reason, and the lies about the Sioux name, are the reasons the Summit is the Slummit.

Relations between the Summit and UND are not good, and only if we called the shots (get rid of their commish being the first), would UND even consider.

(05-13-2015 03:45 PM)MJG Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 11:16 AM)MJG Wrote:  The FBS Big Sky scenario usually includes the Dakota schools.

Maybe Idaho ,EWU,UND and the Montana schools could join the Summit instead.
That is if rules are changed and schools are allowed to move up.
The Summit could get raided and be in jeopardy since they have nine members.
Losing two would allow the Summit to invite five and retain its auto bid in basketball.

UNI and U Mass would be football only candidates.

UND
NDSU
SDSU
USD
Montana
Montana ST
Idaho
EWU included because they are aggressive and funding stadium expansion.

Omaha and Denver would be ideal Olympic only sports members.


Besides the obvious rules changes ( save that argument the scenario is based on rules being changed) does it make sense? Compared to the BSC split with members joining the WAC. The WAC could take the Summits non football schools to pair with UMKC and Chicago ST. The MVFC could take any member staying FCS.

Travel is not great in this part of the country but this would be an improvement for most.

I forgot to add NMSU and Army as football only members.
Rules would need to be changed they change all the time.
I think if we can start paying athletes FBS transition rules can change.
Locking out whole sections of the country is wrong.
Forcing schools to join conferences that are bad fits makes no sense.

Yes rules do get changed all the time. They changed the rules where you could be an FBS conference with only six members and none had to be in the same all-sports league to requiring eight FBS all-sports members to be an FBS league. They changed the rules allowing you to move from Division II to Division I as an indy or from FCS to FBS as an indy to requiring a conference invite.

Rules change but the probability of changing to make it easier to move up is pretty slim.

(05-13-2015 03:10 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 01:32 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 01:23 PM)goofus Wrote:  Following the UMass-MAC precedent, they just need an existing FBS conference to join for football only, then withdraw after 1 year and go independent in FBS or start another FBS conference. if no existing FBS conference helps them move up, the WAC can start sponsoring FBS football again.

just the WAC, or any new FBS conference or any new independent will not get any CFP money.

I don't think the WAC can do that anymore. They lost that opportunity when they failed to get back up to the minimum FBS standard of 8 teams during the 2 year grace period. I dont think the WAC can sponsor FBS football without getting 8 current FBS teams to join (unless there is a special rule I am unaware of). Otherwise, the grace period rule would not be needed since it would be irrelevant.

That is correct. Once the grace period expired they were done.

ok, forget the WAC. The teams moving up would just have to offer the MAC or the SBC a boatload of cash to take them for football only for 2 years of transition, then they can go off and form their own FBS conference.

(05-13-2015 04:14 PM)goofus Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 03:10 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 01:32 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-13-2015 01:23 PM)goofus Wrote:  Following the UMass-MAC precedent, they just need an existing FBS conference to join for football only, then withdraw after 1 year and go independent in FBS or start another FBS conference. if no existing FBS conference helps them move up, the WAC can start sponsoring FBS football again.

just the WAC, or any new FBS conference or any new independent will not get any CFP money.

I don't think the WAC can do that anymore. They lost that opportunity when they failed to get back up to the minimum FBS standard of 8 teams during the 2 year grace period. I dont think the WAC can sponsor FBS football without getting 8 current FBS teams to join (unless there is a special rule I am unaware of). Otherwise, the grace period rule would not be needed since it would be irrelevant.

That is correct. Once the grace period expired they were done.

ok, forget the WAC. The teams moving up would just have to offer the MAC or the SBC a boatload of cash to take them for football only for 2 years of transition, then they can go off and form their own FBS conference.

Okay, MWC adds North Dakota State, Northern Iowa. Missouri State and Illinois State as football only members. Then they can break off and form a new FBS conference with Idaho and New Mexico State. Then bring up the rest from MVFC, Liberty and Eastern Washington. Army and U. Mass. in the east.

WAC East
Youngstown State
U. Mass.
Liberty
Illinois State
Army
Indiana State
Western Illinois
Northern Iowa

WAC West
North Dakota
North Dakota State
South Dakota
South Dakota State
Idaho
New Mexico State
Eastern Washington
Missouri State

If this does not work out? The eastern schools could form a new FBS conference adding Alabama State, Jacksonville State, James Madison, Delaware and some others.

Army
Youngstown State
U. Mass.
Eastern Kentucky
Jacksonville State
James Madison
Delaware
Liberty
Stony Brook
Alabama State
West Florida
Navy


Western
Idaho
Eastern Washington
New Mexico State
North Dakota
North Dakota State
South Dakota
South Dakota State
Northern Iowa
Missouri State
Western Illinois
Illinois State
Southern Illinois
Indiana State
Lamar

As I've said before.

The Valley has a number of schools who have made a little bit of noise about contemplating FBS. Find 8 FBS schools to join and they don't have to worry about any of those schools defecting.

(05-13-2015 05:03 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  As I've said before.

The Valley has a number of schools who have made a little bit of noise about contemplating FBS. Find 8 FBS schools to join and they don't have to worry about any of those schools defecting.

1) UAB joins MVC
2) MVC gets permission to start FBS conference.
3) Wichita St and UAB restart football programs
4) MSU, UNI, Ill State agree to move up. (that makes 5 teams).
5) recruit WKU to be 12th basketball school and 6th football school.
6) consider NDSU as a football only FBS member
7) free agents UMASS, Idaho, and NMSU are considered as football only members
8) After a few years the hybrid splits.
9) NDSU and NMSU are invited as a full members.
10) Indy St makes commitment to move up.
11) SIU decides it can't afford it.
12) MVC-FBS goes after WKU, N. Illinois, and Arkansas St, etc
13) The MFVC is absorbed by the Summit league.
14) The remaining MVC basketball schools merge with the horizon.

in 2025: The Valley Conference

Missouri Valley Division: Missouri State, Wichita State, NDSU, Illinois State, Indiana State, Northern Iowa

South Valley Division: UAB, NMSU,Arkansas State, Texas St, Louisiana-Layff, Western Kentucky