(03-23-2015 10:40 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  They collected something close to 5k season ticket deposits in like three days a couple weeks ago. I think the demand exists.

Not sure what costs you're referencing in starting a program from scratch. It's absolutely not starting from scratch. The OCS issue needs resolution, but they have equipment & facilities already. They had practice facility improvements lined up until the UAB admin mysteriously refused to allow field turf be installed despite it being paid for entirely by boosters.

I get the sense you have some Alabama roots. Am I right?

Nope, just a big college football fan.

There are always costs associated with football. The fact is that the school will save much money just not playing football and having to burden the costs associated with paying coaches salaries, travel, student athletes and other expenses. It is by far the most expensive sport to finance at the college level and there is a reason that many big name schools don't even sponsor it. Maybe this event will trigger a huge upswing in support for the school, but UAB was hardly a player before. Again, there is plenty of demand right NOW, but will there be if they are playing Incarnate Word or D2 schools for two years..will the demand be there IF they are pummeled like Georgia State by their FBS conference mates for many seasons once at the FBS level?

This is fairly recent (Dec 2014) with respect to UAB:

http://www.midmajormadness.com/2014/12/2...c-southern

I agree with all dukes. His points are valid and the entire thing is pathetic really, on the part of the alabama BOT.
I see how it's a futile effort to reinstate UAB football from a financial and fan support perspective, regardless of whether it's unethical. He's right that this is essentially a minimum of a five year process to just get back to where they were at the end of this season.
With that being said, I wish them luck if they do reinstate it after all. This situation isn't going to open any opportunities for JMU anyways. Utep will leave when Hawaii folds and cusa will stay with 12. G5 conferences have no financial motivation to expand past 12 schools with the cfb payouts. "Another mouth to feed".

(03-23-2015 10:53 AM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 10:40 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  They collected something close to 5k season ticket deposits in like three days a couple weeks ago. I think the demand exists.

Not sure what costs you're referencing in starting a program from scratch. It's absolutely not starting from scratch. The OCS issue needs resolution, but they have equipment & facilities already. They had practice facility improvements lined up until the UAB admin mysteriously refused to allow field turf be installed despite it being paid for entirely by boosters.

I get the sense you have some Alabama roots. Am I right?

Nope, just a big college football fan.

There are always costs associated with football. The fact is that the school will save much money just not playing football and having to burden the costs associated with paying coaches salaries, travel, student athletes and other expenses. It is by far the most expensive sport to finance at the college level and there is a reason that many big name schools don't even sponsor it. Maybe this event will trigger a huge upswing in support for the school, but UAB was hardly a player before. Again, there is plenty of demand right NOW, but will there be if they are playing Incarnate Word or D2 schools for two years..will the demand be there IF they are pummeled like Georgia State by their FBS conference mates for many seasons once at the FBS level?

UAB has actually lost the ability to collect substantial C-USA revenue because of dropping their FB program. Highly unlikely C-USA allows them to stay without FB reinstatement within the next academic year. The financial losses are huge & fly in the face of the argument that they needed to drop FB in order to save money.

A great deal of donors are refusing to give anything now. What about that lost money? I think it's also ridiculous to act like the decision is justified because of attendance WHEN ATTENDANCE WAS NOT THE REASON STATED FOR CUTTING THE PROGRAM. That's a lazy argument. You think attendance might have increased if Jimbo Fisher had been hired? What about if they built a cozy 25,000 OCS? Both moves were quashed by the BOT.

Sorry, the money/attendance arguments just DO NOT hold water.

Check the conference payouts from FB playoff, NCAA basketball & media rights. C-USA is literally millions more than the conferences UAB may be forced to move to.

The best result for them (if booted from CUSA) is the SBC. Return football & have a clear path back to FBS. Yep, it won't be fast, but they are more of a brand name than most of the SBC's other options.

(03-23-2015 12:06 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 10:53 AM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 10:40 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  They collected something close to 5k season ticket deposits in like three days a couple weeks ago. I think the demand exists.

Not sure what costs you're referencing in starting a program from scratch. It's absolutely not starting from scratch. The OCS issue needs resolution, but they have equipment & facilities already. They had practice facility improvements lined up until the UAB admin mysteriously refused to allow field turf be installed despite it being paid for entirely by boosters.

I get the sense you have some Alabama roots. Am I right?

Nope, just a big college football fan.

There are always costs associated with football. The fact is that the school will save much money just not playing football and having to burden the costs associated with paying coaches salaries, travel, student athletes and other expenses. It is by far the most expensive sport to finance at the college level and there is a reason that many big name schools don't even sponsor it. Maybe this event will trigger a huge upswing in support for the school, but UAB was hardly a player before. Again, there is plenty of demand right NOW, but will there be if they are playing Incarnate Word or D2 schools for two years..will the demand be there IF they are pummeled like Georgia State by their FBS conference mates for many seasons once at the FBS level?

UAB has actually lost the ability to collect substantial C-USA revenue because of dropping their FB program. Highly unlikely C-USA allows them to stay without FB reinstatement within the next academic year. The financial losses are huge & fly in the face of the argument that they needed to drop FB in order to save money.

A great deal of donors are refusing to give anything now. What about that lost money? I think it's also ridiculous to act like the decision is justified because of attendance WHEN ATTENDANCE WAS NOT THE REASON STATED FOR CUTTING THE PROGRAM. That's a lazy argument. You think attendance might have increased if Jimbo Fisher had been hired? What about if they built a cozy 25,000 OCS? Both moves were quashed by the BOT.

Sorry, the money/attendance arguments just DO NOT hold water.

I'm fully aware of how shady the Alabama BOT did UAB in all of this. It is even looking worse in terms of corruption/collusion now that more evidence has been brough to the table. However, none of that matters as they no longer have a football program and will not have a Division 1 FBS team for 5 years at minimum. I think you seem to be thinking I am saying that they don't deserve a team; that is not the case. I'm saying that they shouldn't restart their team even though they got di(ked over. I don't think investing in a football team is a good decision for UAB at this point and undergoing a massive scale effort like going from no team to FBS is just to spite the Board of Trustees that will likely view them even even less favorably is worth it.

Doesn't make sense to me. Decision-makers screwed up. The people are ready to support the team & have supported the team as best as they are allowed (more or less). UAB makes more money in NCAA/C-USA media payouts & donations with a team. Who cares about if they should or should not. It's stupid financially to not have a team, even if it will be five years from now.

(03-23-2015 12:19 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Doesn't make sense to me. Decision-makers screwed up. The people are ready to support the team & have supported the team as best as they are allowed (more or less). UAB makes more money in NCAA/C-USA media payouts & donations with a team. Who cares about if they should or should not. It's stupid financially to not have a team, even if it will be five years from now.

Look, if C-USA gives them a guarantee and a clear path back to the conference as a full member in 2020, it could be worth it to restart the team. It doesn't look like that will be the case though and there are no guarantees that even the Sun Belt will want them at that point (or that either the Sun Belt or C-USA will exist). You say the people are ready to support them, but those people are almost certainly the ones who were already invested in the team and are saying they are willing to pony up a bit more to bring it back. That doesn't mean that Birmingham or Alabama in general will particuarly care or all of a sudden be willing to pay attention to a team they were barely paying attention to before.

There is a reason that so many schools are reluctant to sponsor football and it's the same reason JMU hasn't jumped on the Sun Belt offer. If you are in the wrong situation, it could be financially disasterous. There are no guarantees at this point that C-USA will wait around patiently for UAB to be a full member again in 5 years.

I get what you're saying now.

I think where we differ is that you're saying there's no indication the fans will attend & support it beyond what they have historically. I think that the right coach & appropriate support will result in a winner. Everybody loves a winner. If they bring back football & it's more BOT/admin handcuffing, I agree, it will be a bad situation. I imagine the UA System BOT will be on their best behavior for awhile considering how big this scandal has gotten. With them out of the way, there's potential for success.

You're right though, the discussion of C-USA membership financial benefits is almost unimportant considering the long road back to where they were, and that's under the BEST scenario.

Thanks, appreciate the conversation & perspective.

(03-23-2015 03:03 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  I get what you're saying now.

I think where we differ is that you're saying there's no indication the fans will attend & support it beyond what they have historically. I think that the right coach & appropriate support will result in a winner. Everybody loves a winner. If they bring back football & it's more BOT/admin handcuffing, I agree, it will be a bad situation. I imagine the UA System BOT will be on their best behavior for awhile considering how big this scandal has gotten. With them out of the way, there's potential for success.

You're right though, the discussion of C-USA membership financial benefits is almost unimportant considering the long road back to where they were, and that's under the BEST scenario.

Thanks, appreciate the conversation & perspective.

My heart certainly goes out to UAB. All indications were that they were turning the program around and that there was some outside interest in the team for the first time in a while. It is heartbreaking that a group of good ole' boys with a grudge carrying the water for the son of someone who has been dead for years is what fueled this. I do expect there to be some serious investigation into this and someone will certainly lose their job. Perhaps UAB can parlay this to gain more influence in the BOT and maybe get a favor pushed through in the near future.

I do think that UAB could be like VCU in men's bball. They have some history and are usually competitive already. With the right investment and a few consecutive tourny appearances, I think they could build something nice. Many people have them joining the Ohio Valley if C-USA doesn't allow them to stay, so they likely going prove to be a nice foil for Murray State.

man our "Carr" report is worthless at this point:

"Carr, who lists Texas, Auburn, Tennessee, North Carolina and (gulp) UAB among his head coaching search clients, will now have to sell himself to prospective future clients while also being known as the guy who helped UAB kill its football program – and then cover it up for three months."

http://footballscoop.com/news/report-dec...september/

(03-23-2015 03:35 PM)jmusuperfan Wrote:  man our "Carr" report is worthless at this point:

"Carr, who lists Texas, Auburn, Tennessee, North Carolina and (gulp) UAB among his head coaching search clients, will now have to sell himself to prospective future clients while also being known as the guy who helped UAB kill its football program – and then cover it up for three months."

http://footballscoop.com/news/report-dec...september/

Eh, yes and no.

Anyone with a brain knows that "consultants" are really just rubber stamps for whatever agenda you want.

Even in our Carr Report, you can tell that numbers were slanted towards the Pro-FBS move.

(03-22-2015 08:08 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(03-22-2015 07:46 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  

(03-22-2015 07:35 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  I imagine that the conference will give UAB a probationary period to get football started again. We'll see.

And in the meantime their recruiting would get destroyed, much like it did for Towson baseball.

Eh, this is worse. They literally have to start from scratch. All they have now is a head coach fighting for and hoping they bring it back. The assistants and players are all gone. They will essentially be a start-up. If it does happen, hopefully it will be in a new stadium and out from under the UA BOT. Otherwise, they will be doomed to fail.

I think Watts and the BOT will keep with their decision and UAB will go to the MVC (they are already talking). And their tourney win over Iowa State may make that sell easier. CUSA would be down to 13 teams. And with the Hawaii situation probably making an opening in the MWC, it will be 12 once UTEP bolts.

Would be shocked in UAB is a fit for the MVC. Round of 32 appearance notwithstanding the MVC doesn't need UAB- it already has a good basketball profile. Adding a school outside their geographic footprint doesn't seem to be consistent with who the MVC is. You could make the case that the MVC is better than the A-10 at hoops without the coverage or TV deals and their top teams are home grown not taken from other conferences.

(03-23-2015 07:31 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  

(03-22-2015 08:08 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(03-22-2015 07:46 PM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  

(03-22-2015 07:35 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  I imagine that the conference will give UAB a probationary period to get football started again. We'll see.

And in the meantime their recruiting would get destroyed, much like it did for Towson baseball.

Eh, this is worse. They literally have to start from scratch. All they have now is a head coach fighting for and hoping they bring it back. The assistants and players are all gone. They will essentially be a start-up. If it does happen, hopefully it will be in a new stadium and out from under the UA BOT. Otherwise, they will be doomed to fail.

I think Watts and the BOT will keep with their decision and UAB will go to the MVC (they are already talking). And their tourney win over Iowa State may make that sell easier. CUSA would be down to 13 teams. And with the Hawaii situation probably making an opening in the MWC, it will be 12 once UTEP bolts.

Would be shocked in UAB is a fit for the MVC. Round of 32 appearance notwithstanding the MVC doesn't need UAB- it already has a good basketball profile. Adding a school outside their geographic footprint doesn't seem to be consistent with who the MVC is. You could make the case that the MVC is better than the A-10 at hoops without the coverage or TV deals and their top teams are home grown not taken from other conferences.

I always thought it would be OVC or Atlantic Sun.

(03-23-2015 03:41 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 03:35 PM)jmusuperfan Wrote:  man our "Carr" report is worthless at this point:

"Carr, who lists Texas, Auburn, Tennessee, North Carolina and (gulp) UAB among his head coaching search clients, will now have to sell himself to prospective future clients while also being known as the guy who helped UAB kill its football program – and then cover it up for three months."

http://footballscoop.com/news/report-dec...september/

Eh, yes and no.

Anyone with a brain knows that "consultants" are really just rubber stamps for whatever agenda you want.

Even in our Carr Report, you can tell that numbers were slanted towards the Pro-FBS move.

While true, you've gotta admit that guy's name is pretty much "Mudd" right now.

(03-23-2015 10:18 PM)JMaddy Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 03:41 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 03:35 PM)jmusuperfan Wrote:  man our "Carr" report is worthless at this point:

"Carr, who lists Texas, Auburn, Tennessee, North Carolina and (gulp) UAB among his head coaching search clients, will now have to sell himself to prospective future clients while also being known as the guy who helped UAB kill its football program – and then cover it up for three months."

http://footballscoop.com/news/report-dec...september/

Eh, yes and no.

Anyone with a brain knows that "consultants" are really just rubber stamps for whatever agenda you want.

Even in our Carr Report, you can tell that numbers were slanted towards the Pro-FBS move.

While true, you've gotta admit that guy's name is pretty much "Mudd" right now.

One cannot help but wonder if Carr nudged us to hold off on the SunBelt knowing that UAB could end up in this pickle even though he was engaged with JMU and our report one year prior to the events with UAB. He would have been in the early stages of putting together the UAB information just about the time the SunBelt commissioner indicated JMU doesn't care to move to an FBS conference.

So the Carr Report is pretty much expensive toilet paper.

(03-24-2015 05:59 AM)HolyCityDuke Wrote:  So the Carr Report is pretty much expensive toilet paper.

As has been brought up many times, the Carr says exactly what those who are writing Bill Carr a check, want it to say. All they do is put it in a nice little package for all to read.

(03-24-2015 05:59 AM)HolyCityDuke Wrote:  So the Carr Report is pretty much expensive toilet paper.

Yeah I guess but its already covered in sh!t.

(03-23-2015 09:44 AM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  I think that it's pointless for UAB to restart their team. Let's be honest, they had little support before their "study" and will likely not have much support playing FCS ball for 3 seasons and getting demolished in FBS for another two or three (at minimum).

At this point, they should just invest heavily in men's bball (solid program already) and baseball. I would think the Sun Belt wouldn't hesitate to take them for olympic sports, especailly since it's likely that Idaho and New Mexico State's days in that conference are likely numbered.

The Sun Belt makes a lot more sense for UAB than the MVC. Because if UAB gets tossed from CUSA, they'll need to have a conference sponsor to bring back football. And the MVC can't provide that to them. The Sun Belt can.

But I think UAB will still be in CUSA for another year at least.