(03-09-2015 11:28 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 12:14 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-08-2015 11:59 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-08-2015 09:06 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-08-2015 08:52 PM)Maize Wrote:  Historically the SEC in Basketball is Kentucky and 13 Jabronis...doesn't measure up to the B1G, ACC or the Old BIG EAST in Basketball...still one hellva College Football Conference....

exactly.. in history-
Kentucky- 118 tourney wins, 16 final 4's, 12 title game appearances, 8 titles
rest of SEC while in SEC- 169 tourney wins, 13 final 4's, 5 title game appearances, 3 titles

Just compare the rest of the SEC to the Big East and AAC that Louisville faced. 12 elite 8's, 7 final 4's, 2 title games, and 2 titles. That's just in the Big East/AAC era. Add to that Marquette's final 4 run and the conference competition that Louisville has had is at least 13 elite 8's and 8 final 4's. Yeah a little bit tougher than the SEC competition that Kentucky historically faced....

The SEC really picked it up starting in the mid-70s-shortly after Joe B. became coach. The SEC was competitive with the rest of the top conferences up until the slump the last 5 years. I think you'll find the overwhelming portion of those SEC tourney wins post Rupp.

maybe wins- but in Hall's career at Kentucky the rest of the SEC had all of 3 elite 8's and 2 final 4's(LSU and Georgia). That's it. that's why its Pitino and it's not even close...

Pitino didn't follow a legend. He doesn't fit the OP's premise.
Nolan Richardson did a pretty good job following Sutton where he was a legend.

Pitino absolutely followed a legend at Louisville. And sorry but what Pitino has gone up against in the Big East and AAC even before this year's ACC is light years ahead of the SEC that Hall faced with Kentucky...

excluding Louisville/Kentucky
Elite 8's- Pitino 13 Hall 3
Final 4's- Pitino 8 Hall 2
Title games- Pitino 2 Hall 0
Titles- Pitino 2 Hall 0
It's not even remotely close. Louisville has faced much stronger competition than Kentucky ever did at that point of the SEC.

(03-09-2015 12:09 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 11:54 AM)ken d Wrote:  There are some pretty loose definitions of "legend" here. I would only consider of few of those coaches as legends. My list would include John Wooden, Adolph Rupp, Dean Smith, Bobby Knight and not many more in the post war era.

My pick for best job by a successor goes to Gene Bartow, who went 52-9 in his two seasons at UCLA, including a Final Four and a Sweet Sixteen in the NCAAT. Sadly for him, that wasn't good enough for UCLA fans.

You are off center here. You need to read this.

10 Greatest Men's College Basketball Coaches.

1. Mike Krzyzewski (I call this Bull $hit)
2. John Wooden
3. Bobby Knight
4. Dean Smith
5. Jim Calhoun
6. Adolph Rupp
7. Rick Pitino
8. Billy Donovan
9. Roy Williams
10. Denny Crum

Hall of Fame coaches every one. But legends? Billy Donovan? Roy Williams? I might have considered adding some who coached before WWII, but post war I'll stick with my list.

(03-09-2015 10:40 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  You do realize that from 1980 - 2012 the SEC had the same number of Final 4 appearances and national titles as the Big East, right?

The Big East didn't win a national title for 14 years, from 1985 - 1999, and only had 2 teams make the Final 4 during the entire 1990s. For six straight years, 1990-1995, no Big East teams made the Final 4.

This is true, but not really "accurate" if comparing the depth of competition during the time periods that were specifically named. Namely you are eliminating the accomplishments of 5 of the teams, who were in other conferences (we were not compsring the conferences but the teams that played in the conferences during each era), which adds two extra championships and 7 additional final fours to that number between 1980-2012 (you'd also add one more final four to the SEC total for Arkansas).

(03-09-2015 11:54 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  He is referring to Pitino at UK.

I don't think Pitino at UK should count. It's like if in 2008 Tom Brady had suffered a permanent injury and had to retire, and the Patriots replaced him with Peyton Manning. That's just one legend replacing another.

Pitino was already a top-shelf, Final 4 coach when he want to UK. The concept of "replacing a legend" should only apply to a relatively unknown coach who takes over from a legend, and succeeds.

(03-09-2015 12:11 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 10:40 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-08-2015 08:52 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(03-08-2015 05:12 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-08-2015 12:33 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I'd say Crum over Hall because Big East and now ACC light years better than what the SEC was.

When do you think that SEC basketball was "light years" behind the ACC or Big East?

Historically the SEC in Basketball is Kentucky and 13 Jabronis...doesn't measure up to the B1G, ACC or the Old BIG EAST in Basketball...still one hellva College Football Conference....

You do realize that from 1980 - 2012 the SEC had the same number of Final 4 appearances and national titles as the Big East, right?

The Big East didn't win a national title for 14 years, from 1985 - 1999, and only had 2 teams make the Final 4 during the entire 1990s. For six straight years, 1990-1995, no Big East teams made the Final 4.

The B1G hasn't won a national title since when, 2000? That's 15 years! And just one in the past 1/4 century. And yet the B1G is always touted as a top basketball conference. Lots of teams in the Final 4 (24 since 1980) but since the 1980s they don't convert them into titles.

This is the 20th anniversary of the PAC's last national title.

Since the formation of the Big 12 in 1996, the Big 12 has put 7 teams in the Final 4. The SEC has had 12 during that same time.

Just about everyone goes through down times. Even the mighty ACC hasn't had a Final 4 team in 5 years.

The SEC isn't doing so bad and hasn't, historically.

History started before 1980...hence my phrasing of the word "Historically"

You talk about me "spinning", when i posted actual conference data while all you did was post the names of a bunch of schools?

I chose 1980 because there was no Big East before 1980, and you disparaged the SEC by comparing it to the Big East. Sheesh!

But if you want to go back 10 more years, to 1970, you get:

Final 4s by major conference, 1970-1979, national titles in parentheses:

PAC: 7(5) (all UCLA, of course)
B1G: 4(2)
ACC: 4(1)
SEC: 2(1)
Big 8: 2(0)
SWC: 1(0)

True, nobody held a candle to the PAC, thanks to UCLA, but otherwise the SEC fit right in, no evidence of it being inherently a weak-arse basketball conference.

(03-09-2015 12:24 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 10:40 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  You do realize that from 1980 - 2012 the SEC had the same number of Final 4 appearances and national titles as the Big East, right?

The Big East didn't win a national title for 14 years, from 1985 - 1999, and only had 2 teams make the Final 4 during the entire 1990s. For six straight years, 1990-1995, no Big East teams made the Final 4.

This is true, but not really "accurate" if comparing the depth of competition during the time periods that were specifically named. Namely you are eliminating the accomplishments of 5 of the teams, who were in other conferences (we were not compsring the conferences but the teams that played in the conferences during each era), which adds two extra championships and 7 additional final fours to that number between 1980-2012 (you'd also add one more final four to the SEC total for Arkansas).

I did the only accurate thing to do, which is listed the actual achievements of each conference. If, e.g., Arkansas had still been in the SWC in 1994, then it would have been ridiculous to count their national title as an SEC title in the 1980-2012 time frame.

To do anything else would be a distortion.

(03-09-2015 11:24 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 05:38 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  I would go with Pitino bailing out Kentucky, helping the Knicks and replacing Crum. Joe hall was a very good coach when using the Guys He recruited while an assistant to Rupp. Went to the '75 championship game with those guys and won it all in '78 with the next Super Class. Things start to go South with the next couple of classes though and with the Rise of Louisville and Indiana, it put a lot of pressure on His coaching ability with some Hard core fans whom couldn't believe that Tennessee, LSU and Alabama, Auburn, Georgia could recruit equally as well as Kentucky could in those days.

That 83 team was pretty talented. Kenny Walker, Mel Turpin, Sam Bowie. Believe all were 1st round draft picks.

And the 78 champs were his guys. Robey, Givens, Lee, Macy, Phillips. Dwayne Casey (later of Fedex fame) was his recuit too and was on that team. They would have been in the finals in 77 too if not for Dean Smith's 4 corners and great free throw shooting.

Yep, And so was louisville that beat that team in the 83 Dream game in Knoxville to go to the final four with a 6'8 center in charles Jones that faced every big man in the Day and held his Own. Great game

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/scho.../1983.html

(03-09-2015 01:19 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 11:24 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 05:38 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  I would go with Pitino bailing out Kentucky, helping the Knicks and replacing Crum. Joe hall was a very good coach when using the Guys He recruited while an assistant to Rupp. Went to the '75 championship game with those guys and won it all in '78 with the next Super Class. Things start to go South with the next couple of classes though and with the Rise of Louisville and Indiana, it put a lot of pressure on His coaching ability with some Hard core fans whom couldn't believe that Tennessee, LSU and Alabama, Auburn, Georgia could recruit equally as well as Kentucky could in those days.

That 83 team was pretty talented. Kenny Walker, Mel Turpin, Sam Bowie. Believe all were 1st round draft picks.

And the 78 champs were his guys. Robey, Givens, Lee, Macy, Phillips. Dwayne Casey (later of Fedex fame) was his recuit too and was on that team. They would have been in the finals in 77 too if not for Dean Smith's 4 corners and great free throw shooting.

Yep, And so was louisville that beat that team in the 83 Dream game in Knoxville to go to the final four with a 6'8 center in charles Jones that faced every big man in the Day and held his Own. Great game

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/scho.../1983.html

I loved that Louisville team from 82 - 83 with the McCray boys and Milt Wagner. The Georgetown/Louisville Final 4 game in 1982 was a real nail-biter for me. IIRC, UL entered the game with a potent offense, but the Hoyas were able to clamp down defensively and eek it out. Having Ewing around the basket helped with that.

(03-09-2015 01:13 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 12:11 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 10:40 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-08-2015 08:52 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(03-08-2015 05:12 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  When do you think that SEC basketball was "light years" behind the ACC or Big East?

Historically the SEC in Basketball is Kentucky and 13 Jabronis...doesn't measure up to the B1G, ACC or the Old BIG EAST in Basketball...still one hellva College Football Conference....

You do realize that from 1980 - 2012 the SEC had the same number of Final 4 appearances and national titles as the Big East, right?

The Big East didn't win a national title for 14 years, from 1985 - 1999, and only had 2 teams make the Final 4 during the entire 1990s. For six straight years, 1990-1995, no Big East teams made the Final 4.

The B1G hasn't won a national title since when, 2000? That's 15 years! And just one in the past 1/4 century. And yet the B1G is always touted as a top basketball conference. Lots of teams in the Final 4 (24 since 1980) but since the 1980s they don't convert them into titles.

This is the 20th anniversary of the PAC's last national title.

Since the formation of the Big 12 in 1996, the Big 12 has put 7 teams in the Final 4. The SEC has had 12 during that same time.

Just about everyone goes through down times. Even the mighty ACC hasn't had a Final 4 team in 5 years.

The SEC isn't doing so bad and hasn't, historically.

History started before 1980...hence my phrasing of the word "Historically"

You talk about me "spinning", when i posted actual conference data while all you did was post the names of a bunch of schools?

I chose 1980 because there was no Big East before 1980, and you disparaged the SEC by comparing it to the Big East. Sheesh!

But if you want to go back 10 more years, to 1970, you get:

Final 4s by major conference, 1970-1979, national titles in parentheses:

PAC: 7(5) (all UCLA, of course)
B1G: 4(2)
ACC: 4(1)
SEC: 2(1)
Big 8: 2(0)
SWC: 1(0)

True, nobody held a candle to the PAC, thanks to UCLA, but otherwise the SEC fit right in, no evidence of it being inherently a weak-arse basketball conference.

Again...I said "Historically" which in terms of the NCAA Tournament starts in 1939 not 1980...if you want to put a Time Frame on it that is and Cut and Paste my entire response to suit your purpose in your "spin" go right ahead...myself don't really care but if you're going to respond put my entire statement...

(03-09-2015 01:17 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 12:24 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 10:40 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  You do realize that from 1980 - 2012 the SEC had the same number of Final 4 appearances and national titles as the Big East, right?

The Big East didn't win a national title for 14 years, from 1985 - 1999, and only had 2 teams make the Final 4 during the entire 1990s. For six straight years, 1990-1995, no Big East teams made the Final 4.

This is true, but not really "accurate" if comparing the depth of competition during the time periods that were specifically named. Namely you are eliminating the accomplishments of 5 of the teams, who were in other conferences (we were not compsring the conferences but the teams that played in the conferences during each era), which adds two extra championships and 7 additional final fours to that number between 1980-2012 (you'd also add one more final four to the SEC total for Arkansas).

I did the only accurate thing to do, which is listed the actual achievements of each conference. If, e.g., Arkansas had still been in the SWC in 1994, then it would have been ridiculous to count their national title as an SEC title in the 1980-2012 time frame.

To do anything else would be a distortion.

Not at all. You are listing accomplishments are a conference banner. He was speaking about the teams within a conference that each team had to face. Therefore those teams' accomishments in the past, no matter which conference they were in, need to be listed to compare the relative strength of each team to compote what was faced.

Further you actually have to remove the accomplishments that assigned to Louisville snd Kentucky in this comparison, since the coach did not face their own team.

(03-09-2015 01:27 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 01:19 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 11:24 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 05:38 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  I would go with Pitino bailing out Kentucky, helping the Knicks and replacing Crum. Joe hall was a very good coach when using the Guys He recruited while an assistant to Rupp. Went to the '75 championship game with those guys and won it all in '78 with the next Super Class. Things start to go South with the next couple of classes though and with the Rise of Louisville and Indiana, it put a lot of pressure on His coaching ability with some Hard core fans whom couldn't believe that Tennessee, LSU and Alabama, Auburn, Georgia could recruit equally as well as Kentucky could in those days.

That 83 team was pretty talented. Kenny Walker, Mel Turpin, Sam Bowie. Believe all were 1st round draft picks.

And the 78 champs were his guys. Robey, Givens, Lee, Macy, Phillips. Dwayne Casey (later of Fedex fame) was his recuit too and was on that team. They would have been in the finals in 77 too if not for Dean Smith's 4 corners and great free throw shooting.

Yep, And so was louisville that beat that team in the 83 Dream game in Knoxville to go to the final four with a 6'8 center in charles Jones that faced every big man in the Day and held his Own. Great game

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/scho.../1983.html

I loved that Louisville team from 82 - 83 with the McCray boys and Milt Wagner. The Georgetown/Louisville Final 4 game in 1982 was a real nail-biter for me. IIRC, UL entered the game with a potent offense, but the Hoyas were able to clamp down defensively and eek it out. Having Ewing around the basket helped with that.

Having Ewing around the basket terrorized a lot of teams over four years...

(03-09-2015 01:34 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 01:27 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 01:19 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 11:24 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 05:38 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  I would go with Pitino bailing out Kentucky, helping the Knicks and replacing Crum. Joe hall was a very good coach when using the Guys He recruited while an assistant to Rupp. Went to the '75 championship game with those guys and won it all in '78 with the next Super Class. Things start to go South with the next couple of classes though and with the Rise of Louisville and Indiana, it put a lot of pressure on His coaching ability with some Hard core fans whom couldn't believe that Tennessee, LSU and Alabama, Auburn, Georgia could recruit equally as well as Kentucky could in those days.

That 83 team was pretty talented. Kenny Walker, Mel Turpin, Sam Bowie. Believe all were 1st round draft picks.

And the 78 champs were his guys. Robey, Givens, Lee, Macy, Phillips. Dwayne Casey (later of Fedex fame) was his recuit too and was on that team. They would have been in the finals in 77 too if not for Dean Smith's 4 corners and great free throw shooting.

Yep, And so was louisville that beat that team in the 83 Dream game in Knoxville to go to the final four with a 6'8 center in charles Jones that faced every big man in the Day and held his Own. Great game

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/scho.../1983.html

I loved that Louisville team from 82 - 83 with the McCray boys and Milt Wagner. The Georgetown/Louisville Final 4 game in 1982 was a real nail-biter for me. IIRC, UL entered the game with a potent offense, but the Hoyas were able to clamp down defensively and eek it out. Having Ewing around the basket helped with that.

Having Ewing around the basket terrorized a lot of teams over four years...

Thing is, as good an NBA player as Ewing was, he was never the same as he was in college. His rookie year he developed bad knees, which hobbled him to an extent his whole NBA career. In college, Ewing had incredible hops for a big man, a 38-inch vertical leap, he used run the court on the fast break and soar in the air to block shots. Never had that movement or defensive dynamism as a pro.

(03-09-2015 12:09 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 11:54 AM)ken d Wrote:  There are some pretty loose definitions of "legend" here. I would only consider of few of those coaches as legends. My list would include John Wooden, Adolph Rupp, Dean Smith, Bobby Knight and not many more in the post war era.

My pick for best job by a successor goes to Gene Bartow, who went 52-9 in his two seasons at UCLA, including a Final Four and a Sweet Sixteen in the NCAAT. Sadly for him, that wasn't good enough for UCLA fans.

You are off center here. You need to read this.

10 Greatest Men's College Basketball Coaches.

1. Mike Krzyzewski (I call this Bull $hit)
2. John Wooden
3. Bobby Knight
4. Dean Smith
5. Jim Calhoun
6. Adolph Rupp
7. Rick Pitino
8. Billy Donovan
9. Roy Williams
10. Denny Crum

Basically, your list has two more coaches on it than mine - Jim Calhoun and Denny Crum. The other four are still coaching, so we have to wait on their successors, whoever they may be. And Calhoun hasn't been retired long enough to judge Kevin Ollie yet. That only leaves Louisville - or is that where you were trying to lead me?

(03-09-2015 12:14 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 11:28 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 12:14 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-08-2015 11:59 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-08-2015 09:06 PM)stever20 Wrote:  exactly.. in history-
Kentucky- 118 tourney wins, 16 final 4's, 12 title game appearances, 8 titles
rest of SEC while in SEC- 169 tourney wins, 13 final 4's, 5 title game appearances, 3 titles

Just compare the rest of the SEC to the Big East and AAC that Louisville faced. 12 elite 8's, 7 final 4's, 2 title games, and 2 titles. That's just in the Big East/AAC era. Add to that Marquette's final 4 run and the conference competition that Louisville has had is at least 13 elite 8's and 8 final 4's. Yeah a little bit tougher than the SEC competition that Kentucky historically faced....

The SEC really picked it up starting in the mid-70s-shortly after Joe B. became coach. The SEC was competitive with the rest of the top conferences up until the slump the last 5 years. I think you'll find the overwhelming portion of those SEC tourney wins post Rupp.

maybe wins- but in Hall's career at Kentucky the rest of the SEC had all of 3 elite 8's and 2 final 4's(LSU and Georgia). That's it. that's why its Pitino and it's not even close...

Pitino didn't follow a legend. He doesn't fit the OP's premise.
Nolan Richardson did a pretty good job following Sutton where he was a legend.

Pitino absolutely followed a legend at Louisville. And sorry but what Pitino has gone up against in the Big East and AAC even before this year's ACC is light years ahead of the SEC that Hall faced with Kentucky...

excluding Louisville/Kentucky
Elite 8's- Pitino 13 Hall 3
Final 4's- Pitino 8 Hall 2
Title games- Pitino 2 Hall 0
Titles- Pitino 2 Hall 0
It's not even remotely close. Louisville has faced much stronger competition than Kentucky ever did at that point of the SEC.

Cardfan1 was talking about Pitino at Kentucky. He doesn't qualify there.

Your numbers aren't close. Hall took UK to the title game in 75, losing to a retiring John Wooden, won in 78 and then lost in the semi-finals in 84 and made the elite 8 in 77 and 83.

(03-09-2015 01:28 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 01:13 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 12:11 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 10:40 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-08-2015 08:52 PM)Maize Wrote:  Historically the SEC in Basketball is Kentucky and 13 Jabronis...doesn't measure up to the B1G, ACC or the Old BIG EAST in Basketball...still one hellva College Football Conference....

You do realize that from 1980 - 2012 the SEC had the same number of Final 4 appearances and national titles as the Big East, right?

The Big East didn't win a national title for 14 years, from 1985 - 1999, and only had 2 teams make the Final 4 during the entire 1990s. For six straight years, 1990-1995, no Big East teams made the Final 4.

The B1G hasn't won a national title since when, 2000? That's 15 years! And just one in the past 1/4 century. And yet the B1G is always touted as a top basketball conference. Lots of teams in the Final 4 (24 since 1980) but since the 1980s they don't convert them into titles.

This is the 20th anniversary of the PAC's last national title.

Since the formation of the Big 12 in 1996, the Big 12 has put 7 teams in the Final 4. The SEC has had 12 during that same time.

Just about everyone goes through down times. Even the mighty ACC hasn't had a Final 4 team in 5 years.

The SEC isn't doing so bad and hasn't, historically.

History started before 1980...hence my phrasing of the word "Historically"

You talk about me "spinning", when i posted actual conference data while all you did was post the names of a bunch of schools?

I chose 1980 because there was no Big East before 1980, and you disparaged the SEC by comparing it to the Big East. Sheesh!

But if you want to go back 10 more years, to 1970, you get:

Final 4s by major conference, 1970-1979, national titles in parentheses:

PAC: 7(5) (all UCLA, of course)
B1G: 4(2)
ACC: 4(1)
SEC: 2(1)
Big 8: 2(0)
SWC: 1(0)

True, nobody held a candle to the PAC, thanks to UCLA, but otherwise the SEC fit right in, no evidence of it being inherently a weak-arse basketball conference.

Again...I said "Historically" which in terms of the NCAA Tournament starts in 1939 not 1980...if you want to put a Time Frame on it that is and Cut and Paste my entire response to suit your purpose in your "spin" go right ahead...myself don't really care but if you're going to respond put my entire statement...

The relevant period is 72-85 for your discussion, when Joe B. was at UK. Tennessee, Alabama, Auburn, Georgia and LSU all had some pretty good teams. The rest became competitive.

(03-09-2015 05:06 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 01:28 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 01:13 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 12:11 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 10:40 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  You do realize that from 1980 - 2012 the SEC had the same number of Final 4 appearances and national titles as the Big East, right?

The Big East didn't win a national title for 14 years, from 1985 - 1999, and only had 2 teams make the Final 4 during the entire 1990s. For six straight years, 1990-1995, no Big East teams made the Final 4.

The B1G hasn't won a national title since when, 2000? That's 15 years! And just one in the past 1/4 century. And yet the B1G is always touted as a top basketball conference. Lots of teams in the Final 4 (24 since 1980) but since the 1980s they don't convert them into titles.

This is the 20th anniversary of the PAC's last national title.

Since the formation of the Big 12 in 1996, the Big 12 has put 7 teams in the Final 4. The SEC has had 12 during that same time.

Just about everyone goes through down times. Even the mighty ACC hasn't had a Final 4 team in 5 years.

The SEC isn't doing so bad and hasn't, historically.

History started before 1980...hence my phrasing of the word "Historically"

You talk about me "spinning", when i posted actual conference data while all you did was post the names of a bunch of schools?

I chose 1980 because there was no Big East before 1980, and you disparaged the SEC by comparing it to the Big East. Sheesh!

But if you want to go back 10 more years, to 1970, you get:

Final 4s by major conference, 1970-1979, national titles in parentheses:

PAC: 7(5) (all UCLA, of course)
B1G: 4(2)
ACC: 4(1)
SEC: 2(1)
Big 8: 2(0)
SWC: 1(0)

True, nobody held a candle to the PAC, thanks to UCLA, but otherwise the SEC fit right in, no evidence of it being inherently a weak-arse basketball conference.

Again...I said "Historically" which in terms of the NCAA Tournament starts in 1939 not 1980...if you want to put a Time Frame on it that is and Cut and Paste my entire response to suit your purpose in your "spin" go right ahead...myself don't really care but if you're going to respond put my entire statement...

The relevant period is 72-85 for your discussion, when Joe B. was at UK. Tennessee, Alabama, Auburn, Georgia and LSU all had some pretty good teams. The rest became competitive.

And a UK fan conveniently forgets 1986, when Louisville won its 2nd National Championship. Imagine that.

(03-09-2015 05:06 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 01:28 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 01:13 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 12:11 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 10:40 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  You do realize that from 1980 - 2012 the SEC had the same number of Final 4 appearances and national titles as the Big East, right?

The Big East didn't win a national title for 14 years, from 1985 - 1999, and only had 2 teams make the Final 4 during the entire 1990s. For six straight years, 1990-1995, no Big East teams made the Final 4.

The B1G hasn't won a national title since when, 2000? That's 15 years! And just one in the past 1/4 century. And yet the B1G is always touted as a top basketball conference. Lots of teams in the Final 4 (24 since 1980) but since the 1980s they don't convert them into titles.

This is the 20th anniversary of the PAC's last national title.

Since the formation of the Big 12 in 1996, the Big 12 has put 7 teams in the Final 4. The SEC has had 12 during that same time.

Just about everyone goes through down times. Even the mighty ACC hasn't had a Final 4 team in 5 years.

The SEC isn't doing so bad and hasn't, historically.

History started before 1980...hence my phrasing of the word "Historically"

You talk about me "spinning", when i posted actual conference data while all you did was post the names of a bunch of schools?

I chose 1980 because there was no Big East before 1980, and you disparaged the SEC by comparing it to the Big East. Sheesh!

But if you want to go back 10 more years, to 1970, you get:

Final 4s by major conference, 1970-1979, national titles in parentheses:

PAC: 7(5) (all UCLA, of course)
B1G: 4(2)
ACC: 4(1)
SEC: 2(1)
Big 8: 2(0)
SWC: 1(0)

True, nobody held a candle to the PAC, thanks to UCLA, but otherwise the SEC fit right in, no evidence of it being inherently a weak-arse basketball conference.

Again...I said "Historically" which in terms of the NCAA Tournament starts in 1939 not 1980...if you want to put a Time Frame on it that is and Cut and Paste my entire response to suit your purpose in your "spin" go right ahead...myself don't really care but if you're going to respond put my entire statement...

The relevant period is 72-85 for your discussion, when Joe B. was at UK. Tennessee, Alabama, Auburn, Georgia and LSU all had some pretty good teams. The rest became competitive.

True...C.M. Newton at Bama, Dale Brown at LSU and the Bernie and Ernie Show at Tennessee were good...other then that it has been and I know you agree Weak as Compared to the B1G, Pac 8 through 12 and ACC.

(03-09-2015 05:20 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 05:06 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 01:28 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 01:13 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 12:11 PM)Maize Wrote:  History started before 1980...hence my phrasing of the word "Historically"

You talk about me "spinning", when i posted actual conference data while all you did was post the names of a bunch of schools?

I chose 1980 because there was no Big East before 1980, and you disparaged the SEC by comparing it to the Big East. Sheesh!

But if you want to go back 10 more years, to 1970, you get:

Final 4s by major conference, 1970-1979, national titles in parentheses:

PAC: 7(5) (all UCLA, of course)
B1G: 4(2)
ACC: 4(1)
SEC: 2(1)
Big 8: 2(0)
SWC: 1(0)

True, nobody held a candle to the PAC, thanks to UCLA, but otherwise the SEC fit right in, no evidence of it being inherently a weak-arse basketball conference.

Again...I said "Historically" which in terms of the NCAA Tournament starts in 1939 not 1980...if you want to put a Time Frame on it that is and Cut and Paste my entire response to suit your purpose in your "spin" go right ahead...myself don't really care but if you're going to respond put my entire statement...

The relevant period is 72-85 for your discussion, when Joe B. was at UK. Tennessee, Alabama, Auburn, Georgia and LSU all had some pretty good teams. The rest became competitive.

And a UK fan conveniently forgets 1986, when Louisville won its 2nd National Championship. Imagine that.

Joe B. Last year at UK was 1985...

Because Denny Crum was owning him.

(03-09-2015 05:38 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Because Denny Crum was owning him.

UK and Louisville didn't play very often in those days.