Candidate 1:
Joe B Hall replaced Rupp and won 8 SEC regular season titles in 13 years, made three Final Fours and won a NCAA title.
In fact, Rupp was "struggling" until he brought Hall back as an assistant in 1965. From 1958-59 to 1964-65, Rupp won two SEC titles in seven years. In his last seven years on the bench assisted by Hall, Rupp won six SEC titles.
Candidate 2:
In 13 years since replacing Denny Crum (not counting this season), Rick Pitino has made three Final Fours and won a NCAA title.
Candidate 3:
Your pick.
So who's your choice? Rick Pitino's a great coach obviously, but the job Hall did with no major college head coaching experience is damned impressive. The fact he helped Rupp get Kentucky back on track augurs well for him.
Finally, Crum was essentially run off after going .500 his last four seasons and failing to win a NCAA tournament game. Hall inherited a dynasty in progress. Pitino did the better rebuilding job, but had less pressure "replacing a legend." Hall did not have to rebuild, but felt the full onus of replacing Rupp.
I'd say Crum over Hall because Big East and now ACC light years better than what the SEC was. In his 13 years- Louisville's been a top 4 seed a whopping 8 times. Also would say that Crum didn't leave the cupboard exactly bare- yeah they were 12-19 in his last season- but they made the tourney the 2 prior years.
I figure most people would choose Pitino, and it's hard to argue with it. Personally, I think the job Hall did is vastly underrated.
I got to thinking about this question when watching Duke-Carolina last night. Both schools will have legends to replace in the not too distant future.
As a Duke alum, I hope we set our sights on the best coach possible (Brad Stevens?) instead of restricting the search to a former Coach K player/assistant coach like Amaker, Dawkins, Capel, Wojo etc.
(03-08-2015 12:36 PM)CougarRed Wrote: [ -> ]I figure most people would choose Pitino, and it's hard to argue with it. Personally, I think the job Hall did is vastly underrated.
I got to thinking about this question when watching Duke-Carolina last night. Both schools will have legends to replace in the not too distant future.
As a Duke alum, I hope we set our sights on the best coach possible (Brad Stevens?) instead of restricting the search to a former Coach K player/assistant coach like Amaker, Dawkins, Capel, Wojo etc.
I agree with you, but I think the fact that the SEC was so bad back then and the Big East/ACC so good- trumps it.
ACC going to have a lot of replacing of legends soon. May start this year with Syracuse I think.
Dean Smith replacing Frank McGuire.
Tom Izzo replacing Jud. Little known assistant without any pedigree.
(03-08-2015 01:13 PM)bluesox Wrote: [ -> ]Tom Izzo replacing Jud. Little known assistant without any pedigree.
I guess "legend" is subjective.
Heathcoat's not in the Hall of Fame. He made one Final Four and one Elite 8 in 19 seasons at Mich St.
After winning the title in year 3, he floundered. Several losing seasons and no NCAA trips until he hired Izzo as an assistant.
Hard for me to call Jud a legend.
But Izzo has done a great job, first reviving his career and then replacing him.
While not as high as the other two listed, Rick Pitino replaced Eddie Sutton, who is a coaching legend. And Tubby Smith replaced Rick Pitino, who is also a legend. Also Nolan Richardson replacing Eddie Sutton. Roy Williams replacing Larry Brown. For that matter Bill Self replacing Roy Williams. Or Phog Allen replacing Dr. James Naismith. Also I know it is early, but Kevin Ollie did just win a title replacing Jim Calhoun
(03-08-2015 01:08 PM)Wedge Wrote: [ -> ]Dean Smith replacing Frank McGuire.
McGuire's in the Hall. He's certainly a legend.
But he only stayed at UNC 9 seasons, he got UNC on probation, and was forced to resign. He won less than 200 games at UNC.
That's apples and oranges compared to say, Gene Bartow taking over John Wooden.
Kevin Ollie is off to a great start replacing Jim Calhoun. And Nolan Richardson eclipsed Eddie Sutton at Arkansas. I should have mentioned him in my original post.
EDIT: adcorbett makes good points, which I did not see when composing this post.
Bill Self replacing Roy Williams.
Rick Pitino replaced Denny Crum.
(03-08-2015 04:44 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote: [ -> ]Rick Pitino replaced Denny Crum.
He was meaning Pitino replaced Sutton at Kentucky. Which he did in addition to replacing Crum at Louisville..
(03-08-2015 12:33 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]I'd say Crum over Hall because Big East and now ACC light years better than what the SEC was.
When do you think that SEC basketball was "light years" behind the ACC or Big East?
Yup. Sutton wasn't so much a "legend" at UK, but he is a HOF coach and a legend in his own right. Plus he replaced Joe B Hall, again not a legend, but a very successful coach himself replacing a legend.
Sutton was no legend at Kentucky. He was not tough to replace there.
He was tough for Arkansas to replace. And Oklahoma St. But not Kentucky.
When I am talking about replacing a legend, I mean replacing a guy that has spent 15+ years at a school, or less if he won at least 250 games there.
Also, in those 15+ years, the legend has to win at least one NCAA title, or make at least three Final Fours.
Finally, he has to be in the Hall of Fame.
Did you just make up criteria to include Guy Lewis in this conversation?
Kevin Ollie (one nc) has done a pretty good job so far replacing Jim Calhoun (three nc's).
(03-08-2015 12:18 PM)CougarRed Wrote: [ -> ]Candidate 1:
Joe B Hall replaced Rupp and won 8 SEC regular season titles in 13 years, made three Final Fours and won a NCAA title.
In fact, Rupp was "struggling" until he brought Hall back as an assistant in 1965. From 1958-59 to 1964-65, Rupp won two SEC titles in seven years. In his last seven years on the bench assisted by Hall, Rupp won six SEC titles.
Candidate 2:
In 13 years since replacing Denny Crum (not counting this season), Rick Pitino has made three Final Fours and won a NCAA title.
Candidate 3:
Your pick.
So who's your choice? Rick Pitino's a great coach obviously, but the job Hall did with no major college head coaching experience is damned impressive. The fact he helped Rupp get Kentucky back on track augurs well for him.
Finally, Crum was essentially run off after going .500 his last four seasons and failing to win a NCAA tournament game. Hall inherited a dynasty in progress. Pitino did the better rebuilding job, but had less pressure "replacing a legend." Hall did not have to rebuild, but felt the full onus of replacing Rupp.
Joe B. wasn't real popular at UK. There was a joke after he retired and went to work for a bank--There was a robbery and the crooks got away with the money. What happened? Joe B. wouldn't let the guards shoot.
(03-08-2015 05:12 PM)quo vadis Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2015 12:33 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]I'd say Crum over Hall because Big East and now ACC light years better than what the SEC was.
When do you think that SEC basketball was "light years" behind the ACC or Big East?
Historically the SEC in Basketball is Kentucky and 13 Jabronis...doesn't measure up to the B1G, ACC or the Old BIG EAST in Basketball...still one hellva College Football Conference....
(03-08-2015 08:52 PM)Maize Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2015 05:12 PM)quo vadis Wrote: [ -> ] (03-08-2015 12:33 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]I'd say Crum over Hall because Big East and now ACC light years better than what the SEC was.
When do you think that SEC basketball was "light years" behind the ACC or Big East?
Historically the SEC in Basketball is Kentucky and 13 Jabronis...doesn't measure up to the B1G, ACC or the Old BIG EAST in Basketball...still one hellva College Football Conference....
exactly.. in history-
Kentucky- 118 tourney wins, 16 final 4's, 12 title game appearances, 8 titles
rest of SEC while in SEC- 169 tourney wins, 13 final 4's, 5 title game appearances, 3 titles
Just compare the rest of the SEC to the Big East and AAC that Louisville faced. 12 elite 8's, 7 final 4's, 2 title games, and 2 titles. That's just in the Big East/AAC era. Add to that Marquette's final 4 run and the conference competition that Louisville has had is at least 13 elite 8's and 8 final 4's. Yeah a little bit tougher than the SEC competition that Kentucky historically faced....