(09-26-2014 10:52 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Sportswriters have generally shown to be almost as oblivious to what's important in conference realignment as football coaches: they either have zero concept of the off-the-field factors that matters (NOT the on-the-field factors) OR they're simply in denial that they're critically important (i.e. "We know that it's not a new TV market, but who cares, right?! Plus, who cares about academics, right? I just want better football games to watch in the press box!"). ECU isn't a new market for the ACC and the league already has 4 schools in the state of North Carolina. That alone should indicate what the answer would be. Even the "academic outlier" of Louisville is a big-time money program that was clearly a power athletic department based on off-the-field factors.

As usual, Frank is spot on in terms of re-alignment...you could argue that ECU could be the TCU of the Big 12, except that the Big 12 lost A&M and replaced with TCU.

What I typically focus on in re-alignment is the "other" programs. You can't have a conversation about the ACC's 16th member leave out the other players. UConn was thought to be the obvious choice. But you think West Virginia would turn down an invite? Cincinnati could spread the footprint and bridge that gap to Notre Dame and toward Louisville, plus be fairly close to Pittsburgh.

This discussion by these reporters is 1) Foolishness by them (I already thought they were idiots) or 2) They are just trying to be liked in their market. And what's worse, it actually gives many of the Pirate Nation, who have been brainwashed into thinking the ACC was all that...into thinking that's where the Pirates WANT to be. What they want to be is in the SEC, which isn't happening either.

(09-26-2014 02:17 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  

(09-26-2014 10:52 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Sportswriters have generally shown to be almost as oblivious to what's important in conference realignment as football coaches: they either have zero concept of the off-the-field factors that matters (NOT the on-the-field factors) OR they're simply in denial that they're critically important (i.e. "We know that it's not a new TV market, but who cares, right?! Plus, who cares about academics, right? I just want better football games to watch in the press box!"). ECU isn't a new market for the ACC and the league already has 4 schools in the state of North Carolina. That alone should indicate what the answer would be. Even the "academic outlier" of Louisville is a big-time money program that was clearly a power athletic department based on off-the-field factors.

As usual, Frank is spot on in terms of re-alignment...you could argue that ECU could be the TCU of the Big 12, except that the Big 12 lost A&M and replaced with TCU.

Also, the Big 12 added TCU when the Big 12 was under considerable duress more generally from raids. No way they would have voluntarily added WVU or TCU had they not been in desperate need for warm bodies with good recent football resumes.

The ACC would only take ECU under extreme duress, probably so extreme that should they actually take ECU, it will be an offer that is proffered by an ACC that has sunk so low it isn't the "ACC" anymore, but a faded and demoted shadow.

Much like the Big East invitation. ECU pined for the Big East for two decades but then got invited only when they lost AQ.

(09-26-2014 02:22 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-26-2014 02:17 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  

(09-26-2014 10:52 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Sportswriters have generally shown to be almost as oblivious to what's important in conference realignment as football coaches: they either have zero concept of the off-the-field factors that matters (NOT the on-the-field factors) OR they're simply in denial that they're critically important (i.e. "We know that it's not a new TV market, but who cares, right?! Plus, who cares about academics, right? I just want better football games to watch in the press box!"). ECU isn't a new market for the ACC and the league already has 4 schools in the state of North Carolina. That alone should indicate what the answer would be. Even the "academic outlier" of Louisville is a big-time money program that was clearly a power athletic department based on off-the-field factors.

As usual, Frank is spot on in terms of re-alignment...you could argue that ECU could be the TCU of the Big 12, except that the Big 12 lost A&M and replaced with TCU.

Also, the Big 12 added TCU when the Big 12 was under considerable duress more generally from raids. No way they would have voluntarily added WVU or TCU had they not been in desperate need for warm bodies with good recent football resumes.

The ACC would only take ECU under extreme duress, probably so extreme that should they actually take ECU, it will be an offer that is proffered by an ACC that has sunk so low it isn't the "ACC" anymore, but a faded and demoted shadow.

Much like the Big East invitation. ECU pined for the Big East for two decades but then got invited only when they lost AQ.

Duress makes little to no difference in conference re-alignment. The Texas President told the media that if A&M left, it would just add TCU or Houston and move right along. The idea that these college presidents are "skeered"...is a falacy.

The Commissioners have their lists and they move down them as they determine they need to. TCU made sense for all of the Big 12 members for recruiting purposes.

#1, the UT president never said that

#2, you're grossly over simplifying.

The Big 12 media contract said that the conference had to have at least 10 schools to be valid. That's a HUGE amount of duress because it means you have to add 2 schools ASAP and cant take your time and go after bigger targets that would take longer to woo.

At the time, TCU and WVU were the two best names that could ALSO guarantee an ability to join the Big 12 before the media deadline.

If that had not been the case and the Big 12 could have taken its time, its very possible those two would not have been chosen.

(09-26-2014 11:58 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(09-26-2014 09:55 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  You mean the ACC has finally noticed that nobody in Boston, Miami, or Pittsburgh care about to to football games at those schools? Imagine that.

Sez the state flagship that averaged a whopping 3,169 more people per game last year.

The City of Pittsburgh has more people than the entire State of West Virginia. Yet Pitt's football attendance struggles to match half that of WVU. Nobody in Pittsburgh cares about the Panthers. For a perfect example, here's an excerpt from Barry Tramel's article about his trip to WVU for the WVU-Oklahoma game.

Quote:But think about that. Pitt-Iowa kicked off at noon. A decent college football game. Pittsburgh entered the game unbeaten. Iowa is a traditional Big Ten stronghold. These teams aren’t headed for the Sugar Bowl, but this is a far cry from OSU-Missouri State or OU-Louisiana Tech or Texas-North Texas. Pitt-Iowa was a competitive game in a football town.

And when we walked into a restaurant not 15 miles from the stadium, no one in the restaurant cared. The three TVs we could see were not tuned to Pitt-Iowa. A hostess flipped the television quickly, and we enjoyed a bunch of good food while watching the game. But that lunch showed me how tough a road Pitt has to carve out a footing in a city that loves its Steelers and is falling back in love with its baseball team.

http://newsok.com/west-virginia-travelbl...le/5344324

And WVU is averaging 3,169 more fans AFTER a 4-8 campaign. You were saying?

No matter how great ECU is in football, it is not a serious university. The ACC made a mistake in taking Louisville -- over UConn -- and do not be surprised if UVA, Duke and Wake Forest leave someday so they can hang out with better quality schools.

So they've had a year and a half of above average football and y'all think they should be in the ACC? lol

(09-26-2014 03:23 PM)connecticutguy Wrote:  No matter how great ECU is in football, it is not a serious university. The ACC made a mistake in taking Louisville -- over UConn -- and do not be surprised if UVA, Duke and Wake Forest leave someday so they can hang out with better quality schools.

OMG - here we go again.

(09-26-2014 03:23 PM)connecticutguy Wrote:  No matter how great ECU is in football, it is not a serious university. The ACC made a mistake in taking Louisville -- over UConn -- and do not be surprised if UVA, Duke and Wake Forest leave someday so they can hang out with better quality schools.

The B1G might be interested in UVa and Duke. But not Wake. WF's best bet for hanging out with like minded schools, if they ever decide to leave the ACC, is the Ivy League, and I doubt they'd be able to get the Ivy League to even give them a look.

If they decided to drop emphasis on football, they could join the Big East. As long as they don't care about football, which seems to be the case already, that is an option.

(09-26-2014 03:37 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(09-26-2014 03:23 PM)connecticutguy Wrote:  No matter how great ECU is in football, it is not a serious university. The ACC made a mistake in taking Louisville -- over UConn -- and do not be surprised if UVA, Duke and Wake Forest leave someday so they can hang out with better quality schools.

The B1G might be interested in UVa and Duke. But not Wake. WF's best bet for hanging out with like minded schools, if they ever decide to leave the ACC, is the Ivy League, and I doubt they'd be able to get the Ivy League to even give them a look.

If they decided to drop emphasis on football, they could join the Big East. As long as they don't care about football, which seems to be the case already, that is an option.

The Big 10 is interested in UVA,UNC and GA Tech

(09-26-2014 03:23 PM)connecticutguy Wrote:  No matter how great ECU is in football, it is not a serious university. The ACC made a mistake in taking Louisville -- over UConn -- and do not be surprised if UVA, Duke and Wake Forest leave someday so they can hang out with better quality schools.

Wow...come on down for a tour of ECU so you can be better informed.

(09-26-2014 02:45 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  #1, the UT president never said that

#2, you're grossly over simplifying.

The Big 12 media contract said that the conference had to have at least 10 schools to be valid. That's a HUGE amount of duress because it means you have to add 2 schools ASAP and cant take your time and go after bigger targets that would take longer to woo.

At the time, TCU and WVU were the two best names that could ALSO guarantee an ability to join the Big 12 before the media deadline.

If that had not been the case and the Big 12 could have taken its time, its very possible those two would not have been chosen.

I recall someone saying it, even if it wasnt the UT President (maybe it was the AD, whatever.). The Big 12 could have added Louisville, Cincinnati, TCU, Houston, whoever...it chose TCU because it wanted to replace A&M with a Texas school...certainly an argument could have been made for Louisville and WVU.

(09-26-2014 03:23 PM)connecticutguy Wrote:  No matter how great ECU is in football, it is not a serious university. The ACC made a mistake in taking Louisville -- over UConn -- and do not be surprised if UVA, Duke and Wake Forest leave someday so they can hang out with better quality schools.

But you have to remember that these aren't academic conferences - they are athletic conferences.

Other than academics, Louisville had the most complete package of any school available at the time. I do find the ACC to be hypocritical, but I also think Louisville was deserving of a spot in the P5.

I do think that the ACC is full of schools that don't have the same interests/values/priorities and that could cause many issues down the road...

(09-26-2014 03:25 PM)Doctor Krieger Wrote:  So they've had a year and a half of above average football and y'all think they should be in the ACC? lol

You should do some more research on ECU

You are seriously misinformed if you think ECU is 'a year and a half' of above average football. They routinely beat the other Carolina schools while making a fraction of the money in a far less prestigious conference. They would average 70k in attendance if they were in the SEC or ACC.

The NC schools do not want them in the ACC because of the overlapping market, but let's be honest ECU would quickly eclipse them and basically be a Virginia Tech level school if put in a P5 league.

ECU is a very fine school and I would be thrilled if my son went there. ECU has been tremendous for Eastern NC and it's economy. While we may have fun with the sports talk, ECU is a credit to the UNC School System. As for the ACC, no they will never get the invite not because of just the NC schools but the other schools don't want to add another NC school. With the ACC CG being in Charlotte and the tourneys being in Greensboro & Charlotte, the other schools are not going to make it any more NC centric. I think the B12 is ECU's best shot, the main issue has been their basketball. IF the B12 ever expanded, I think the top two currently would be UCF gets in for the Florida Market, CINC for being good at both Football and Basketball. UCONN and ECU, the next two inline. UCONN football is questionable and ECU basketball is questionable, issues both are working on trying to correct. Until the B12 wants a championship game, everything will stand pat.

(09-26-2014 02:32 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  

(09-26-2014 02:22 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-26-2014 02:17 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  

(09-26-2014 10:52 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Sportswriters have generally shown to be almost as oblivious to what's important in conference realignment as football coaches: they either have zero concept of the off-the-field factors that matters (NOT the on-the-field factors) OR they're simply in denial that they're critically important (i.e. "We know that it's not a new TV market, but who cares, right?! Plus, who cares about academics, right? I just want better football games to watch in the press box!"). ECU isn't a new market for the ACC and the league already has 4 schools in the state of North Carolina. That alone should indicate what the answer would be. Even the "academic outlier" of Louisville is a big-time money program that was clearly a power athletic department based on off-the-field factors.

As usual, Frank is spot on in terms of re-alignment...you could argue that ECU could be the TCU of the Big 12, except that the Big 12 lost A&M and replaced with TCU.

Also, the Big 12 added TCU when the Big 12 was under considerable duress more generally from raids. No way they would have voluntarily added WVU or TCU had they not been in desperate need for warm bodies with good recent football resumes.

The ACC would only take ECU under extreme duress, probably so extreme that should they actually take ECU, it will be an offer that is proffered by an ACC that has sunk so low it isn't the "ACC" anymore, but a faded and demoted shadow.

Much like the Big East invitation. ECU pined for the Big East for two decades but then got invited only when they lost AQ.

Duress makes little to no difference in conference re-alignment. The Texas President told the media that if A&M left, it would just add TCU or Houston and move right along. The idea that these college presidents are "skeered"...is a falacy.

You really think that the Big 12 just happened to invite TCU and WVU right after Mizzou and TAMU were raided away?

Seriously?

If I could create a wishlist for the ACC, this would probably be it:

Texas (FB or non FB)
West Virginia (ACC could use great fans)
Cincinnati (Nice market addition)
UConn (Tier I basketball)
Central Florida (Won the Fiesta Bowl, Huge Market)

East Carolina would be next in line after that list which is a pretty long list of candidates for the ACC to go through for a conference that has only lost 2 schools in its history (Maryland and South Carolina).

The reality for ECU is they struggled just to get into the AAC and had a hard time getting into CUSA before that. The AAC is the best conference ECU has ever played in so I think Pirate fans should be thankful about getting the upgrade and not stuck in CUSA with UAB and So. Miss.

(09-26-2014 03:44 PM)Rich52c Wrote:  

(09-26-2014 03:37 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(09-26-2014 03:23 PM)connecticutguy Wrote:  No matter how great ECU is in football, it is not a serious university. The ACC made a mistake in taking Louisville -- over UConn -- and do not be surprised if UVA, Duke and Wake Forest leave someday so they can hang out with better quality schools.

The B1G might be interested in UVa and Duke. But not Wake. WF's best bet for hanging out with like minded schools, if they ever decide to leave the ACC, is the Ivy League, and I doubt they'd be able to get the Ivy League to even give them a look.

If they decided to drop emphasis on football, they could join the Big East. As long as they don't care about football, which seems to be the case already, that is an option.

The Big 10 is interested in UVA,UNC and GA Tech

I doubt the B1G goes past 16, if they go that far.

But they're picking the right schools. Mediocre football is the rule in the B1G these days.

ECU and UCF make for a nice negotiating point for the Big 12. Otherwise they will be needed to anchor the expanded AAC of the future. I think they shall find it to be very suiting.