Bad times ahead for JMU. Maybe LIberty can have an online course featuring JMU AD Jeff Bourne titled "How to Botch Conference Re-alignment and How I Learned to Not Communicate with Fans"

(04-08-2014 10:33 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 10:29 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 06:40 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  If true, it seems to insinuate the SBC's intent on getting into VA.

You have to wonder what gives here, though. App State, Georgia Southern, and Georgia State all came from conferences who didn't want LU at their level, but now they are in a bigger place where they do? Is the appeal that they get a school who won't be taken by others and is a safe bet for stability?

The appeal is a school close enough to App that a basketball team can make a Thursday/Saturday swing or volleyball can make a Friday/Saturday swing through while balancing the divisions east/west without creating an unnatural pairing such as splitting up the Arkansas schools or the Louisiana schools.

And USA ends up in a division with Troy and four teams that are either currently FCS or who have never won a FBS game. Why are we even FBS again?

I hear Marshall is starting a support group under this title.

(04-08-2014 10:55 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 10:49 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 10:46 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 10:41 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I just don't see it happening. Most school presidents don't want to rub elbows with an institution that's seen by many as a polarizing internet school. One of the main reasons to be FBS is that FBS schools are perceived as being "major" universities by the casual observers. Associating with a school like Liberty sends the exact opposite message. Look, Im not knocking the school, Im just saying that's how school presidents think. They are among the snobbiest people you will ever meet---especially when it comes to academics and image.

I've said that for a long time. Liberty is using its online diploma mill to fuel much needed facilities.

Online diploma mill? Like all the other major universities are now or starting to do?

I think that it will become more common---but right now, its primarily still the domain of community colleges and the University Of Phoenix Online. It doesn't exactly scream "prestige". The whole point of spending on FBS sports (sports is a money loser for most every school involved) is that it serves as the marketing arm and public face of university recruitment. It is a driver of enrollment. That's its value. Anything that undermines that mission is counterproductive. That's why I think Liberty would struggle to get the votes necessary. Maybe the Sunbelt is that desperate for a 12th, but given that they hold the last sure ticket for entry into FBS---they should not be. They should be very selective.

Arizona State offer full online degrees.
http://asuonline.asu.edu/online-degree-programs

I haven't gone to any others but I remember ASU from their spat with Grand Canyon.

(04-08-2014 11:20 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 10:55 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 10:49 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 10:46 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 10:41 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I just don't see it happening. Most school presidents don't want to rub elbows with an institution that's seen by many as a polarizing internet school. One of the main reasons to be FBS is that FBS schools are perceived as being "major" universities by the casual observers. Associating with a school like Liberty sends the exact opposite message. Look, Im not knocking the school, Im just saying that's how school presidents think. They are among the snobbiest people you will ever meet---especially when it comes to academics and image.

I've said that for a long time. Liberty is using its online diploma mill to fuel much needed facilities.

Online diploma mill? Like all the other major universities are now or starting to do?

I think that it will become more common---but right now, its primarily still the domain of community colleges and the University Of Phoenix Online. It doesn't exactly scream "prestige". The whole point of spending on FBS sports (sports is a money loser for most every school involved) is that it serves as the marketing arm and public face of university recruitment. It is a driver of enrollment. That's its value. Anything that undermines that mission is counterproductive. That's why I think Liberty would struggle to get the votes necessary. Maybe the Sunbelt is that desperate for a 12th, but given that they hold the last sure ticket for entry into FBS---they should not be. They should be very selective.

Arizona State offer full online degrees.
http://asuonline.asu.edu/online-degree-programs

I haven't gone to any others but I remember ASU from their spat with Grand Canyon.

Is ASU financially dependent on their online business?

Difference. Nobody has a problem with online degrees, in theory.

(04-08-2014 11:20 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 10:55 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 10:49 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 10:46 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 10:41 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I just don't see it happening. Most school presidents don't want to rub elbows with an institution that's seen by many as a polarizing internet school. One of the main reasons to be FBS is that FBS schools are perceived as being "major" universities by the casual observers. Associating with a school like Liberty sends the exact opposite message. Look, Im not knocking the school, Im just saying that's how school presidents think. They are among the snobbiest people you will ever meet---especially when it comes to academics and image.

I've said that for a long time. Liberty is using its online diploma mill to fuel much needed facilities.

Online diploma mill? Like all the other major universities are now or starting to do?

I think that it will become more common---but right now, its primarily still the domain of community colleges and the University Of Phoenix Online. It doesn't exactly scream "prestige". The whole point of spending on FBS sports (sports is a money loser for most every school involved) is that it serves as the marketing arm and public face of university recruitment. It is a driver of enrollment. That's its value. Anything that undermines that mission is counterproductive. That's why I think Liberty would struggle to get the votes necessary. Maybe the Sunbelt is that desperate for a 12th, but given that they hold the last sure ticket for entry into FBS---they should not be. They should be very selective.

Arizona State offer full online degrees.
http://asuonline.asu.edu/online-degree-programs

I haven't gone to any others but I remember ASU from their spat with Grand Canyon.

Are 85% of ASU's students online students? There is a big difference between offering online degrees and being primarily an online institution. Frankly, given the debt that student are piling up and the lack luster economic growth predicted over the next few decades, on-line degrees will likely become a more popular option in the coming years. That said, there will never be anything prestigious about it. The reality? For most, prestige is overrated. For the vast majority, after a few years in the work force, a degree is a degree and ones success is more dependent on performance than the name on the degree.

Handing out thousands of useless, and expensive, online degrees in order to finance a new weight room just screams 'good Christians' doesn't it?

(04-08-2014 11:22 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 11:20 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 10:55 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 10:49 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 10:46 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I've said that for a long time. Liberty is using its online diploma mill to fuel much needed facilities.

Online diploma mill? Like all the other major universities are now or starting to do?

I think that it will become more common---but right now, its primarily still the domain of community colleges and the University Of Phoenix Online. It doesn't exactly scream "prestige". The whole point of spending on FBS sports (sports is a money loser for most every school involved) is that it serves as the marketing arm and public face of university recruitment. It is a driver of enrollment. That's its value. Anything that undermines that mission is counterproductive. That's why I think Liberty would struggle to get the votes necessary. Maybe the Sunbelt is that desperate for a 12th, but given that they hold the last sure ticket for entry into FBS---they should not be. They should be very selective.

Arizona State offer full online degrees.
http://asuonline.asu.edu/online-degree-programs

I haven't gone to any others but I remember ASU from their spat with Grand Canyon.

Is ASU financially dependent on their online business?

Difference. Nobody has a problem with online degrees, in theory.

yes, they are trending towards that. Here is a linked to a video from 2 years ago regarding their online program.
http://cronkitenewsonline.com/2012/10/st...e-degrees/
Their goal is to get 20,000 students online by 2020. That is about 50% of the current enrollment.

This is a big fianancial boon for for all universities and the trend is only to grow exponentially.

(04-08-2014 11:27 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Handing out thousands of useless, and expensive, online degrees in order to finance a new weight room just screams 'good Christians' doesn't it?

Even better when 50% of the online tuition is on federal taxpayer backs.

(04-08-2014 11:39 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 11:22 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 11:20 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 10:55 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 10:49 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Online diploma mill? Like all the other major universities are now or starting to do?

I think that it will become more common---but right now, its primarily still the domain of community colleges and the University Of Phoenix Online. It doesn't exactly scream "prestige". The whole point of spending on FBS sports (sports is a money loser for most every school involved) is that it serves as the marketing arm and public face of university recruitment. It is a driver of enrollment. That's its value. Anything that undermines that mission is counterproductive. That's why I think Liberty would struggle to get the votes necessary. Maybe the Sunbelt is that desperate for a 12th, but given that they hold the last sure ticket for entry into FBS---they should not be. They should be very selective.

Arizona State offer full online degrees.
http://asuonline.asu.edu/online-degree-programs

I haven't gone to any others but I remember ASU from their spat with Grand Canyon.

Is ASU financially dependent on their online business?

Difference. Nobody has a problem with online degrees, in theory.

yes, they are trending towards that. Here is a linked to a video from 2 years ago regarding their online program.
http://cronkitenewsonline.com/2012/10/st...e-degrees/
Their goal is to get 20,000 students online by 2020. That is about 50% of the current enrollment.

This is a big fianancial boon for for all universities and the trend is only to grow exponentially.

So, no.

(04-08-2014 11:43 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 11:39 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 11:22 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 11:20 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 10:55 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I think that it will become more common---but right now, its primarily still the domain of community colleges and the University Of Phoenix Online. It doesn't exactly scream "prestige". The whole point of spending on FBS sports (sports is a money loser for most every school involved) is that it serves as the marketing arm and public face of university recruitment. It is a driver of enrollment. That's its value. Anything that undermines that mission is counterproductive. That's why I think Liberty would struggle to get the votes necessary. Maybe the Sunbelt is that desperate for a 12th, but given that they hold the last sure ticket for entry into FBS---they should not be. They should be very selective.

Arizona State offer full online degrees.
http://asuonline.asu.edu/online-degree-programs

I haven't gone to any others but I remember ASU from their spat with Grand Canyon.

Is ASU financially dependent on their online business?

Difference. Nobody has a problem with online degrees, in theory.

yes, they are trending towards that. Here is a linked to a video from 2 years ago regarding their online program.
http://cronkitenewsonline.com/2012/10/st...e-degrees/
Their goal is to get 20,000 students online by 2020. That is about 50% of the current enrollment.

This is a big fianancial boon for for all universities and the trend is only to grow exponentially.

So, no.

So no, at this time but in 5 years it will be and probably for a lot of other universities.

(04-08-2014 11:45 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 11:43 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 11:39 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 11:22 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 11:20 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Arizona State offer full online degrees.
http://asuonline.asu.edu/online-degree-programs

I haven't gone to any others but I remember ASU from their spat with Grand Canyon.

Is ASU financially dependent on their online business?

Difference. Nobody has a problem with online degrees, in theory.

yes, they are trending towards that. Here is a linked to a video from 2 years ago regarding their online program.
http://cronkitenewsonline.com/2012/10/st...e-degrees/
Their goal is to get 20,000 students online by 2020. That is about 50% of the current enrollment.

This is a big fianancial boon for for all universities and the trend is only to grow exponentially.

So, no.

So no, at this time but in 5 years it will be and probably for a lot of other universities.

If the Federal financial aid bubble sticks around.

Besides, not all universities are moving this way and I doubt ASU plans for their online education to exceed that of their traditional students.

(04-08-2014 10:33 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 10:29 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 06:40 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  If true, it seems to insinuate the SBC's intent on getting into VA.

You have to wonder what gives here, though. App State, Georgia Southern, and Georgia State all came from conferences who didn't want LU at their level, but now they are in a bigger place where they do? Is the appeal that they get a school who won't be taken by others and is a safe bet for stability?

The appeal is a school close enough to App that a basketball team can make a Thursday/Saturday swing or volleyball can make a Friday/Saturday swing through while balancing the divisions east/west without creating an unnatural pairing such as splitting up the Arkansas schools or the Louisiana schools.

And USA ends up in a division with Troy and four teams that are either currently FCS or who have never won a FBS game. Why are we even FBS again?

Not much different than the Sun Belt you joined a couple years ago.

(04-08-2014 11:25 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Are 85% of ASU's students online students? There is a big difference between offering online degrees and being primarily an online institution. Frankly, given the debt that student are piling up and the lack luster economic growth predicted over the next few decades, on-line degrees will likely become a more popular option in the coming years. That said, there will never be anything prestigious about it. The reality? For most, prestige is overrated. For the vast majority, after a few years in the work force, a degree is a degree and ones success is more dependent on performance than the name on the degree.

I think we'll see a dichotomy between standard degrees and online degrees depending upon the field. In my field of work, online degrees aren't going to work. If you want to be a lawyer, doctor, engineer, banker, trader, etc., then those are areas where prestige can matter a great deal. As a result, the movement toward online degrees won't really impact students who want to go into those fields very much and they'll continue to fuel the top level of institutions (say, the top 100 or so schools in the US News rankings). The average student is going to get a solid ROI from those schools (especially if they're getting the benefit of paying in-state tuition).

Where online degrees could *possibly* make the most sense (assuming that they are actually cost effective and providing low tuition rates, which certainly does NOT describe for-profit providers like the University of Phoenix) are for people that just need the college degree credential in the same way that people needed the high school degree credential a generation or two ago. In that case, it definitely doesn't make sense to take on crushing debt for school. The problem that I see is that a lot of people seem to think that "online" means "cheap", but that hasn't necessarily been the case at all (particularly with for-profit institutions). Spending 2 years at a local community college and then another 2 years at an in-state public university is much more cost effective compared to the University of Phoenix (and frankly, the degree that you'll get will be more prestigious) even though it's not online. Online degrees (not just free lectures that you see with the Khan Academy, which are great for individual tutoring or satisfying personal intellectual curiosity but don't provide credentials that employers want) need to be much less costly if they're going to provide the proper ROI. (Note that the people with the worst student loan default rates are those that were at for-profit online schools.)

Tangentially, the most at-risk colleges in the future are really the middle and lower-tier private universities: the schools that are still very expensive but don't really give you that much of a leg up in the job market. Top-tier universities are still going to get a sustainable flow of top-tier students - the upper middle and upper classes of America aren't going to skimp on those opportunities when it comes to their own children. What increasingly won't make sense, though, is paying a premium price for a less-than-premium education. A lot of those private universities that aren't in the upper echelon or aren't blessed with great physical locations are going to need to adjust fairly quickly as enrollments start to decline.

One of the components of Florida's education bill from last year was to allow UF and FSU (and any other FL state university who can meet their levels of funding, research activity, and academic rankings) to offer on-line only bachelor's degree programs at 75% (max) of the standard tuition rate. There are several state schools that offer online classes already, but none offer complete degree programs that allow for students to never have to set foot on campus, until now. The two schools each get an extra $15M in funding from the state to run those programs as well.

Great to see the Sunbelt take a small private and religious school such as Liberty. It should fit in well with its current members.

Great to see the Sunbelt take a small private and religious school such as Liberty. It should fit in well with its current members.

As a Liberty fan and alum, I can't wait to join the Sun Belt and FBS if it comes to fruition. Should be great! I know we aren't/weren't the first choice but it's like musical chairs: I don't care which chair I sit in as long as I get a chair. I'm just happy my chair isn't broken and is without gum on it.

On-line master's are very popular with teachers. Its a way to get a pay upgrade that is difficult to get without getting into administration.

(04-08-2014 01:37 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  One of the components of Florida's education bill from last year was to allow UF and FSU (and any other FL state university who can meet their levels of funding, research activity, and academic rankings) to offer on-line only bachelor's degree programs at 75% (max) of the standard tuition rate. There are several state schools that offer online classes already, but none offer complete degree programs that allow for students to never have to set foot on campus, until now. The two schools each get an extra $15M in funding from the state to run those programs as well.

Lots of state schools offer complete degree programs online. See for example, the University of Iowa:

Iowa

I believe such state schools as Colorado State, Alabama and many, many others offer online degree programs.

(04-08-2014 10:00 PM)MU88 Wrote:  

(04-08-2014 01:37 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  One of the components of Florida's education bill from last year was to allow UF and FSU (and any other FL state university who can meet their levels of funding, research activity, and academic rankings) to offer on-line only bachelor's degree programs at 75% (max) of the standard tuition rate. There are several state schools that offer online classes already, but none offer complete degree programs that allow for students to never have to set foot on campus, until now. The two schools each get an extra $15M in funding from the state to run those programs as well.

Lots of state schools offer complete degree programs online. See for example, the University of Iowa:

Iowa

I believe such state schools as Colorado State, Alabama and many, many others offer online degree programs.

Yes but online education isn't their primary focus.