holy crap. some on here are severely overrating Cooke. He is NOT that good.

Nation is 10 times the player Cooke is. Nation makes his teammates better when he is on the floor. Cooke does very little to make the other 4 guys better.

does anyone really want a guy on the team who openly says he wants "25 shots a game" and shot 29.8% from the 3 point line? No thanks.

It would be nice if he stayed and to his benefit to stay but he would have been a piece to the puzzle, but not a corner piece holding things together.

By all accounts, he's already been replaced by someone just as good.

No one who has left yet is going to impact next season's outcome. If we lose Nation though, then it's time to worry.

When Nation leaves, we'll say he isn't very good either.....

(04-04-2014 06:44 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  holy crap. some on here are severely overrating Cooke. He is NOT that good.

Nation is 10 times the player Cooke is. Nation makes his teammates better when he is on the floor. Cooke does very little to make the other 4 guys better.

does anyone really want a guy on the team who openly says he wants "25 shots a game" and shot 29.8% from the 3 point line? No thanks.

It would be nice if he stayed and to his benefit to stay but he would have been a piece to the puzzle, but not a corner piece holding things together.

By all accounts, he's already been replaced by someone just as good.

No one who has left yet is going to impact next season's outcome. If we lose Nation though, then it's time to worry.

At this point it not about how good a player is or how many shots he wants. The coach is the problem, he does not develop a working relationship with his recruits and he has does not develop their skill sets.

(04-04-2014 06:44 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  holy crap. some on here are severely overrating Cooke. He is NOT that good.

Nation is 10 times the player Cooke is. Nation makes his teammates better when he is on the floor. Cooke does very little to make the other 4 guys better.

does anyone really want a guy on the team who openly says he wants "25 shots a game" and shot 29.8% from the 3 point line? No thanks.

It would be nice if he stayed and to his benefit to stay but he would have been a piece to the puzzle, but not a corner piece holding things together.

By all accounts, he's already been replaced by someone just as good.

No one who has left yet is going to impact next season's outcome. If we lose Nation though, then it's time to worry.

I agree completely. Cooke stalled the offense by holding the ball too long when he got it. He was only effective when he got to the free throw line. He didn't make teammates better because he wasn't a good passer and didn't look to pass. He had some late season success as a freshman and no upper classmen to look up to this year and he got a false sense of entitlement. If he doesn't change he is in for a rude awakening at a higher level if he gets to a higher level. He may find that where ever he goes is not that much different from JMU unless he goes down a level or two. Then he might be able to be the man. I wish him luck.

Everyone seems upset about players leaving when all year they complained that some of the freshmen weren't good enough, now one of the ones that never played is leaving. They complained Besseck wasn't good enough, now he is leaving. They complained we didn't have scholarships to get better players in, now we do. What is the problem here?

I guess that's what these forums are for. Just to complain about everything whether it makes sense or not.

Nation is better than Cooke, but your underating Cooke if you don't think his loss is a factor. I am unsure how you can be so certain you've replaced him, freshman seem to be a real crapshoot especially early.

The 2nd best player on the team left the team on a team where only 2 of the guys were average or better in conference play.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/scho.../2014.html

The current talent level in the program makes this type of loss big even if hes not "great".

Nation is a corner piece of course, but how many corner pieces do you have need in your puzzle DD?

Curry, Cook and Nation were the three on which the success of the team the next two years was built. We just lost one of the three. That is not good and anyone who says it is good is crazy. They were the foundation we were building on. Nation may be a tad better athlete, but Cook was a rock, a model citizen who brought stability to the program. Nation is a time bomb; you can't rely on him to play the next game. Cook is a huge loss to the team.

(04-04-2014 07:03 AM)UofRfan Wrote:  Nation is a corner piece of course, but how many corner pieces do you have need in your puzzle DD?

didn't your UR education tell you you need 4 corners?

and we aren't talking about a Dean Smith offense.

LY - Davis, Goins, Moore, Nation. 4 corners. Winner!

TY - Nation. the rest are middle pieces IMO.

(04-04-2014 07:03 AM)UofRfan Wrote:  Nation is better than Cooke, but your underating Cooke if you don't think his loss is a factor. I am unsure how you can be so certain you've replaced him, freshman seem to be a real crapshoot especially early.

The 2nd best player on the team left the team on a team where only 2 of the guys were average or better in conference play.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/scho.../2014.html

The current talent level in the program makes this type of loss big even if hes not "great".

Nation is a corner piece of course, but how many corner pieces do you have need in your puzzle DD?

win shares per 40 minutes:

Nation .156
Cooke .095

that's a pretty big gap

Offensive rating:

Nation 113.8
Curry 106.0
Cooke 103.3
Semenov 101.0

another big gap

Defensive rating:

Nation 102.4
Cooke 106.5
Semenov 108.0
Curry 109.3

turnovers per 100 plays:

Nation 8.3
Curry 12.7
Semenov 13.5
Cooke 15.4

by any measure, Nation outpaces Cooke by a good margin. UofR, you love these advanced stats. Almost all of them show Cooke as the 3rd or 4th best player on the team last year. Nation is CLEARLY the best, then probably Curry then either Seme or Cooke.

I was very critical of the team this past season and one of my biggest criticisms was the talent level. I kept saying, over and over again, that simply adding two freshmen, however good they might be, was probably not enough to get the team to a level to compete for conference championships or better. Am I happy that Cooke is leaving? No, of course not. We've heard about this now for at least a couple of months, so it should not be a shock to anyone. Of the three foundation pieces, I always felt, perhaps contrary to UofR's metrics, that Cooke was the least important of the three going forward. Let's see what happens now before we all walk off the ledge. Fortunately, Brady and his staff were astute enough to continue recruiting even though no scholarships were available. When the dust finally settles, perhaps we'll be pleasantly surprised that the net net of all the moves results in considerably better talent for the team. And with respect to those two incoming freshmen, I know that Brady is high on both.

The all encomposing one is the win shares per 40 minutes. That combines all of the stats and normalizes for minutes played. Cooke is #2 especially if you just use conference play which is a pretty good way to look at the last half of the season.

I would have guessed Curry was better in conference play than his rating was, but either way - if Cooke is a "middle piece" he's the #1 middle piece or at worst #2.

And as someone stated he also wasn't suspended three times last year like Nation, he was reliable. That is worth something. I was dissapointed in his shooting but he was moving from a total role player his freshman year to a "go to" player which typically doesn't happen in college basketball. Cooke went from a 14.4% usage guy to 24.4%. That is a pretty unheard of leap. The degree of difficulty this adds to your shots is high. Knowing how much he played off everyone else his freshman year it is not a huge surprise there was some drop off in efficiency. Of course as I mentioned his 3 point shooting still was dissapointing.

No one is going to argue Nation isn't Batman when right and playing. He is clearly the man. Just hope he's playing next year and the rest of the middle men are better than the 2013 freshman class.

and I'm not arguing that keeping Cooke isn't better for the team. Sure, I wish he stayed and I think he's making a huge mistake leaving.

i'm just commenting on the posts where people are devastated by this loss as if he is the centerpiece of this team. He's not.

As '84 mentioned before, I'd put him behind Nation (obviously) and even Curry, because Ron is the PG and floor general of the team. He's more valuable simply by the position he plays.

(04-04-2014 06:59 AM)jmu7396 Wrote:  

(04-04-2014 06:44 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  holy crap. some on here are severely overrating Cooke. He is NOT that good.

Nation is 10 times the player Cooke is. Nation makes his teammates better when he is on the floor. Cooke does very little to make the other 4 guys better.

does anyone really want a guy on the team who openly says he wants "25 shots a game" and shot 29.8% from the 3 point line? No thanks.

It would be nice if he stayed and to his benefit to stay but he would have been a piece to the puzzle, but not a corner piece holding things together.

By all accounts, he's already been replaced by someone just as good.

No one who has left yet is going to impact next season's outcome. If we lose Nation though, then it's time to worry.

I agree completely. Cooke stalled the offense by holding the ball too long when he got it. He was only effective when he got to the free throw line. He didn't make teammates better because he wasn't a good passer and didn't look to pass. He had some late season success as a freshman and no upper classmen to look up to this year and he got a false sense of entitlement. If he doesn't change he is in for a rude awakening at a higher level if he gets to a higher level. He may find that where ever he goes is not that much different from JMU unless he goes down a level or two. Then he might be able to be the man. I wish him luck.

Everyone seems upset about players leaving when all year they complained that some of the freshmen weren't good enough, now one of the ones that never played is leaving. They complained Besseck wasn't good enough, now he is leaving. They complained we didn't have scholarships to get better players in, now we do. What is the problem here?

I guess that's what these forums are for. Just to complain about everything whether it makes sense or not.

A fair assessment and an excellent first post.

I would have preferred Cooke have stayed and helped not only the team the next two seasons, but to continue to grow as a man. I'm biased of course, but I think the educational experience he'd have received at JMU is unique, and completing his degree would have served him well (possibly better than wherever he thinks he's going to play next). Sadly, now, as the song lyric shared, he's just a friend we used to know...and a JMU dropout.

I wish the young man well. I hope he succeeds not just on the court, but in the game of life.

The number of transfers is concerning to me solely because it makes complying with the APR standards a bit more tenuous. As for the team, Cooke was potentially an all-league type player, but I don't think he's the straw that stirs the drink.

As for MB people skills not jiving with some of his better players, some of you have teenage children, so imagine living with a whole group of precocious 18-19 year old athletes, all of whom think they're something special and who are entitled to 25 shots a game. Fun thought, eh? What a zoo.

When I was a department head, one of the funniest and most telling comments I ever read in an end of semester course evaluation was a Freshman student who wrote of their professor "I don't know anything about this subject, but he's teaching it wrong." It's funny because there's an assumption on the student's part that they know enough to judge the instructor's pedagogy, even though the student admits they didn't know anything about the subject. It's telling, because the instructor wasn't aware that he wasn't connecting with his students in a manner that made the material understandable.

In a nutshell, I think that's kinda what we have going on now. We have a few precocious players who think they know more about the game, and are so focused on self (a common teen/young twenty something affliction) that they don't think MB and his staff know how to teach them the game, or how to maximize their magnificent skills. So, some players mope and resist coaching (ala AJ), or they just do their own thing (Denzel), or they quit (via transfer), to a start anew where they think the grass is greener.

MB doesn't have the major-league rep of other MBB coaches (as seen on TV), so I can only imagine that players talk back to him and cop an attitude. The fact that MB coaches and recruits to a school that also lacks a major-league basketball rep is Prima facie evidence that (in the players eyes) MB is really not so hot that he knows more about playing the game than their 18-19 year old egos tell them.

So....good coaches have been let go for less (thinking of Bud Childers now), and especially when a HC loses control of his team.

speaking of Bud Childers, think about how the women's game has changed.

He left the U of Louisville job as the all time winningest coach in program history to come to JMU. On his own. He voluntarily made that switch.

that would be unheard of now. They barely missed the Final Four this year.

but that goes to show you the state of women's basketball in the late 80's through the mid 90's. Many BCS schools just didn't put the resources into it back then that they do now. Which makes the job of mid majors like JMU, ODU, etc, that much tougher today.

Funny, I was just thinking about the Bud Childers situation in regards to Bourne.

Kenny fell into that job, so Bourne shouldn't get credit for that hire.

Just a thought.

I am sad to see Cooke leave more than I have been sad to see many others leave---I don't know the full story so I shouldn't judge either side---Cooke's or Brady's/JMU's.

As much as I really like and respect Coach Brady, I have sat through Coaching changes in High School and College first hand. I have been part of a High School Coaching staff when the head coach was canned as well. I have seen it first hand and felt it first hand as a player and coach. This is the start of what it feels like. Again Love the guy---- Next year is make or break and I mean that for more than just W & L's. We cant have players running off---Specifically ones with all conference potential. We can't keep having suspensions and academic issues. When your winning 25-26 games a season nobody really gets up in arms about these things. When your averaging .500 people do... I hope it all settles down and falls into place. Brady stepped into a very tough situation, when a very smart, loved, and able coach before him couldn't get the job done. He has shown vast improvement in our program and our talent level, but there is a black cloud settling over that has a lot more to do with the other factors than the Wins and Losses.... The newcomers next year will tell the tale. Go Dukes Lets win the CAA in 2015!!!

Cooke may not have been a star, but I question the attitude that we'll be better off next year with "Incoming Mystery Player #1". How many years to we have to pin our hopes to the lottery ticket of incoming freshmen/transfers? How long do we keep getting fooled as those incoming recruits don't pan out and leave?

MM saying that he had the "best recruiting class ever" every year got old. This is getting old too.

Excellent posts by JMU7396, UofR, Longhorn and Lexduke398, I might add. Sorry I had to exclude Dukeman at this point, although I very much enjoy reading his posts.

(04-03-2014 04:26 PM)Jmubarkers Wrote:  

(04-03-2014 04:16 PM)Purple Pilgrim Wrote:  So barkers, any good news? I could really use some good news.

Admin has a solid plan on realignment going forward, it's the right decision for JMU and will work out for the school as a whole.
that's absolutely one thing that I won't even attempt to air out though.
1.respect the source and their job title/security
2. Don't want to deal with posters calling me out and doubting my credibility.

Ok. Simple question them.

Are we moving? yes or no

(04-04-2014 08:21 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(04-04-2014 06:59 AM)jmu7396 Wrote:  

(04-04-2014 06:44 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  holy crap. some on here are severely overrating Cooke. He is NOT that good.

Nation is 10 times the player Cooke is. Nation makes his teammates better when he is on the floor. Cooke does very little to make the other 4 guys better.

does anyone really want a guy on the team who openly says he wants "25 shots a game" and shot 29.8% from the 3 point line? No thanks.

It would be nice if he stayed and to his benefit to stay but he would have been a piece to the puzzle, but not a corner piece holding things together.

By all accounts, he's already been replaced by someone just as good.

No one who has left yet is going to impact next season's outcome. If we lose Nation though, then it's time to worry.

I agree completely. Cooke stalled the offense by holding the ball too long when he got it. He was only effective when he got to the free throw line. He didn't make teammates better because he wasn't a good passer and didn't look to pass. He had some late season success as a freshman and no upper classmen to look up to this year and he got a false sense of entitlement. If he doesn't change he is in for a rude awakening at a higher level if he gets to a higher level. He may find that where ever he goes is not that much different from JMU unless he goes down a level or two. Then he might be able to be the man. I wish him luck.

Everyone seems upset about players leaving when all year they complained that some of the freshmen weren't good enough, now one of the ones that never played is leaving. They complained Besseck wasn't good enough, now he is leaving. They complained we didn't have scholarships to get better players in, now we do. What is the problem here?

I guess that's what these forums are for. Just to complain about everything whether it makes sense or not.

A fair assessment and an excellent first post.

I would have preferred Cooke have stayed and helped not only the team the next two seasons, but to continue to grow as a man. I'm biased of course, but I think the educational experience he'd have received at JMU is unique, and completing his degree would have served him well (possibly better than wherever he thinks he's going to play next). Sadly, now, as the song lyric shared, he's just a friend we used to know...and a JMU dropout.

I wish the young man well. I hope he succeeds not just on the court, but in the game of life.

The number of transfers is concerning to me solely because it makes complying with the APR standards a bit more tenuous. As for the team, Cooke was potentially an all-league type player, but I don't think he's the straw that stirs the drink.

As for MB people skills not jiving with some of his better players, some of you have teenage children, so imagine living with a whole group of precocious 18-19 year old athletes, all of whom think they're something special and who are entitled to 25 shots a game. Fun thought, eh? What a zoo.

When I was a department head, one of the funniest and most telling comments I ever read in an end of semester course evaluation was a Freshman student who wrote of their professor "I don't know anything about this subject, but he's teaching it wrong." It's funny because there's an assumption on the student's part that they know enough to judge the instructor's pedagogy, even though the student admits they didn't know anything about the subject. It's telling, because the instructor wasn't aware that he wasn't connecting with his students in a manner that made the material understandable.

In a nutshell, I think that's kinda what we have going on now. We have a few precocious players who think they know more about the game, and are so focused on self (a common teen/young twenty something affliction) that they don't think MB and his staff know how to teach them the game, or how to maximize their magnificent skills. So, some players mope and resist coaching (ala AJ), or they just do their own thing (Denzel), or they quit (via transfer), to a start anew where they think the grass is greener.

MB doesn't have the major-league rep of other MBB coaches (as seen on TV), so I can only imagine that players talk back to him and cop an attitude. The fact that MB coaches and recruits to a school that also lacks a major-league basketball rep is Prima facie evidence that (in the players eyes) MB is really not so hot that he knows more about playing the game than their 18-19 year old egos tell them.

So....good coaches have been let go for less (thinking of Bud Childers now), and especially when a HC loses control of his team.

Great post. One of the problems with athletics in both high school and college these days is there is very little loyalty to school or teammates anymore. It starts with AAU. Kids jump from team to team until they find one that lets them do what they want and play all the time. The teams practice very little, do almost no fundamental work, and focus on exposing players to college scouts. The player's focus is to show the scouts what they can do, not play as a team and try and win. Their only reason to win is so they can advance in the tournament they are in and hopefully play in front of more coaches. When the players go back to their high school and the coach gets on them to defend hard or play team ball they transfer to another high school where they can get more exposure and do what they want. There are high schools everywhere who try and bring in the best players they can and cater to them to stroke the coach's egos and get wins. All along the way the players pick up advisors who all know what is best for the kid and none of whom care what is best for the kid's team. That mentality is engrained in some of them when they get to college and it is up to the college coaches to get them to buy in to their system. Some do and some don't. Even Coach K at Duke sometimes has problems getting players to buy in. I heard him say in an interview once that the hardest part of coaching was getting the players to play together as a team. If he thinks it is hard, imagine how hard it is for a coach without his reputation. Amazingly a large percentage of college players think they are going to play pro so the mentality continues. They have to show the scouts what they can do and that destroys team concept. Thinking back on the season, Cooke played like he was trying to get the stats to move on. After I heard him say to someone after a late season home loss that it was only a game, no big deal, it kind of confirmed that in my mind.

(04-04-2014 08:43 AM)JMU2004 Wrote:  Funny, I was just thinking about the Bud Childers situation in regards to Bourne.

Kenny fell into that job, so Bourne shouldn't get credit for that hire.

Just a thought.

Do you have an entire notebook at home of things to use just to attack Bourne?