(04-09-2014 12:37 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(04-09-2014 12:34 PM)J12312 Wrote:  Yeah, He's not bluffing. I could do 300 in high school at a body weight of 175 lbs. At 20 years old, I was doing 335. Of course, I grew up on a farm and no I've never taken a roid in my life. I still can do pretty close to that at 35 years old and 180 lb body weight. This isn't crazy strength for a guy weighing 240. 2 x your body weight and then you're talking some strength.

Bingo. I'm all arms and legs, but even I can bench 1.25x my own body weight and I'm a 32 year old dude with a desk job and a newborn at home. 1.5x bodyweight is about average from a FB player who has been lifting weights for a year or two. Once you start to get to 1.75 and 2x bodyweight, then you're talking about some crazy numbers.

300 lb high school lineman...Do the math...

Everyone is not <10% body fat...That is why it is bullsh1t...I am around this stuff everyday...But hey keep on keepin on...

Secondly, the Barkley/Shaq stuff is laughable because they were just physical freaks (they were strong because they were essentially born that way) who probably never lifted weights...So to your argument their cleans, squats and deadlifts would be horrible also...So those numbers can be said to mean very little as well...

Bottom line strength and athleticism are not one in the same but it normally takes dedication to achieve the numbers he has so that is what everyone is looking at with Hawkins. And if you think that 360 bench is not going to help him off the ball in the post moving guys you are mistaken.

(04-09-2014 12:42 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(04-09-2014 12:37 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(04-09-2014 12:34 PM)J12312 Wrote:  Yeah, He's not bluffing. I could do 300 in high school at a body weight of 175 lbs. At 20 years old, I was doing 335. Of course, I grew up on a farm and no I've never taken a roid in my life. I still can do pretty close to that at 35 years old and 180 lb body weight. This isn't crazy strength for a guy weighing 240. 2 x your body weight and then you're talking some strength.

Bingo. I'm all arms and legs, but even I can bench 1.25x my own body weight and I'm a 32 year old dude with a desk job and a newborn at home. 1.5x bodyweight is about average from a FB player who has been lifting weights for a year or two. Once you start to get to 1.75 and 2x bodyweight, then you're talking about some crazy numbers.

300 lb high school lineman...Do the math...

What do you mean?

I know quite a few guys benching over 400 that weigh in the 300 lb range. I know some that bench that, that weigh less than 250. Yeah that ratio probably does go down on average the more they weigh. But it's not uncommon for a 300 lb lineman to bust 450-500 lb bench. I know two guys that weigh 250 that can go north of 500 on bench. Technique is some of it. Shortening your arm length by bulking your chest out. Elite strength on bench is 2 x body weight and probably less than that for a guy weighing 300+. How much I'm not sure. A friend of mine weighed in the 300 range, was an offensive lineman for Murry State and his bench was around 450-475. He was a second stringer and definitely not the strongest on the team.

(04-09-2014 12:42 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(04-09-2014 12:37 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(04-09-2014 12:34 PM)J12312 Wrote:  Yeah, He's not bluffing. I could do 300 in high school at a body weight of 175 lbs. At 20 years old, I was doing 335. Of course, I grew up on a farm and no I've never taken a roid in my life. I still can do pretty close to that at 35 years old and 180 lb body weight. This isn't crazy strength for a guy weighing 240. 2 x your body weight and then you're talking some strength.

Bingo. I'm all arms and legs, but even I can bench 1.25x my own body weight and I'm a 32 year old dude with a desk job and a newborn at home. 1.5x bodyweight is about average from a FB player who has been lifting weights for a year or two. Once you start to get to 1.75 and 2x bodyweight, then you're talking about some crazy numbers.

300 lb high school lineman...Do the math...

Everyone is not <10% body fat...That is why it is bullsh1t...I am around this stuff everyday...But hey keep on keepin on...

Secondly, the Barkley/Shaq stuff is laughable because they were just physical freaks (they were strong because they were essentially born that way) who probably never lifted weights...So to your argument their cleans, squats and deadlifts would be horrible also.

(04-09-2014 12:43 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(04-09-2014 12:42 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(04-09-2014 12:37 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(04-09-2014 12:34 PM)J12312 Wrote:  Yeah, He's not bluffing. I could do 300 in high school at a body weight of 175 lbs. At 20 years old, I was doing 335. Of course, I grew up on a farm and no I've never taken a roid in my life. I still can do pretty close to that at 35 years old and 180 lb body weight. This isn't crazy strength for a guy weighing 240. 2 x your body weight and then you're talking some strength.

Bingo. I'm all arms and legs, but even I can bench 1.25x my own body weight and I'm a 32 year old dude with a desk job and a newborn at home. 1.5x bodyweight is about average from a FB player who has been lifting weights for a year or two. Once you start to get to 1.75 and 2x bodyweight, then you're talking about some crazy numbers.

300 lb high school lineman...Do the math...

What do you mean?

Not many high school kids moving 450#s 1.5 your body weight.

(04-09-2014 12:52 PM)J12312 Wrote:  I know quite a few guys benching over 400 that weigh in the 300 lb range. I know some that bench that, that weigh less than 250. Yeah that ratio probably does go down on average the more they weigh. But it's not uncommon for a 300 lb lineman to bust 450-500 lb bench. I know two guys that weigh 250 that can go north of 500 on bench. Technique is some of it. Shortening your arm length by bulking your chest out. Elite strength on bench is 2 x body weight and probably less than that for a guy weighing 300+. How much I'm not sure. A friend of mine weighed in the 300 range, was an offensive lineman for Murry State and his bench was around 450-475. He was a second stringer and defintely not the strongest on the team.

(04-09-2014 12:42 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(04-09-2014 12:37 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(04-09-2014 12:34 PM)J12312 Wrote:  Yeah, He's not bluffing. I could do 300 in high school at a body weight of 175 lbs. At 20 years old, I was doing 335. Of course, I grew up on a farm and no I've never taken a roid in my life. I still can do pretty close to that at 35 years old and 180 lb body weight. This isn't crazy strength for a guy weighing 240. 2 x your body weight and then you're talking some strength.

Bingo. I'm all arms and legs, but even I can bench 1.25x my own body weight and I'm a 32 year old dude with a desk job and a newborn at home. 1.5x bodyweight is about average from a FB player who has been lifting weights for a year or two. Once you start to get to 1.75 and 2x bodyweight, then you're talking about some crazy numbers.

300 lb high school lineman...Do the math...

Everyone is not <10% body fat...That is why it is bullsh1t...I am around this stuff everyday...But hey keep on keepin on...

Secondly, the Barkley/Shaq stuff is laughable because they were just physical freaks (they were strong because they were essentially born that way) who probably never lifted weights...So to your argument their cleans, squats and deadlifts would be horrible also.

That's a D1 college...Not most high schools...That is what I called bullsh1t.

I seen many of these high school kids and they just aint going to get there...And it is not like 300#s is ground breaking...

I pushed 300 when I weighed 165...But I also know many who didn't even come anywhere close. I think most forget that 90+% of high school kids never suit up again after high school.

(04-09-2014 12:54 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  Not many high school kids moving 450#s 1.5 your body weight.

Probably as many of them actually reached 300 lbs. Out of all the HS linemen out there, how many top 300 lbs in HS? 1%? ****, I've known multiple guys that are 18-19 that threw up 440+, and several weren't even close to 300 lbs.

And if we're now talking about linemen, then this conversation bears zero relevance to basketball strength. We're out on the tangent of tangents.

(04-09-2014 12:55 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  That's a D1 college...Not most high schools...That is what I called bullsh1t.

I seem many of these high school kids and they just aint going to get there...And it is not like 300#s is ground breaking...

I pushed 300 when I weighed 165...But I also know many who didn't even come anywhere close.

I know multiple guys who never stepped anywhere close to a D1 football program that bench more than 400 lbs. Hell, we have a poster on this board that can get 450 (I assume from the s/n).

It sounds like even you were close to 2x body weight, seems like you would have a firm grasp on what's being discussed here.

(04-09-2014 12:52 PM)J12312 Wrote:  I know quite a few guys benching over 400 that weigh in the 300 lb range. I know some that bench that, that weigh less than 250. Yeah that ratio probably does go down on average the more they weigh. But it's not uncommon for a 300 lb lineman to bust 450-500 lb bench. I know two guys that weigh 250 that can go north of 500 on bench. Technique is some of it. Shortening your arm length by bulking your chest out. Elite strength on bench is 2 x body weight and probably less than that for a guy weighing 300+. How much I'm not sure. A friend of mine weighed in the 300 range, was an offensive lineman for Murry State and his bench was around 450-475. He was a second stringer and definitely not the strongest on the team.

Yeah, pretty much what J12312 says. 300 lb linemen with fat% above 20 may skew the numbers a bit, but not entirely all that much.

(04-09-2014 12:59 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(04-09-2014 12:55 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  That's a D1 college...Not most high schools...That is what I called bullsh1t.

I seem many of these high school kids and they just aint going to get there...And it is not like 300#s is ground breaking...

I pushed 300 when I weighed 165...But I also know many who didn't even come anywhere close.

I know multiple guys who never stepped anywhere close to a D1 football program that bench more than 400 lbs. Hell, we have a poster on this board that can get 450 (I assume from the s/n).

It sounds like even you were close to 2x body weight, seems like you would have a firm grasp on what's being discussed here.

Argue all you want, I know for a fact that probably close to 1/3 the guys on most football teams will have issues moving 1.5 their body weight. I have seen it...Some guys just don't respond. But keep pointing to anecdotal experiences you have...I have seen it with my own eyes for several years.

(04-09-2014 01:07 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(04-09-2014 12:59 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(04-09-2014 12:55 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  That's a D1 college...Not most high schools...That is what I called bullsh1t.

I seem many of these high school kids and they just aint going to get there...And it is not like 300#s is ground breaking...

I pushed 300 when I weighed 165...But I also know many who didn't even come anywhere close.

I know multiple guys who never stepped anywhere close to a D1 football program that bench more than 400 lbs. Hell, we have a poster on this board that can get 450 (I assume from the s/n).

It sounds like even you were close to 2x body weight, seems like you would have a firm grasp on what's being discussed here.

Argue all you want, I know for a fact that probably close to 1/3 the guys on most football teams will have issues moving 1.5 their body weight. I have seen it...Some guys just don't respond. But keep pointing to anecdotal experiences you have...I have seen it with my own eyes for several years.

Sheesh, so we're arguing over the difference between 1/3 and 1/2? Oh brother. Go on then.

(04-09-2014 01:10 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(04-09-2014 01:07 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(04-09-2014 12:59 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(04-09-2014 12:55 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  That's a D1 college...Not most high schools...That is what I called bullsh1t.

I seem many of these high school kids and they just aint going to get there...And it is not like 300#s is ground breaking...

I pushed 300 when I weighed 165...But I also know many who didn't even come anywhere close.

I know multiple guys who never stepped anywhere close to a D1 football program that bench more than 400 lbs. Hell, we have a poster on this board that can get 450 (I assume from the s/n).

It sounds like even you were close to 2x body weight, seems like you would have a firm grasp on what's being discussed here.

Argue all you want, I know for a fact that probably close to 1/3 the guys on most football teams will have issues moving 1.5 their body weight. I have seen it...Some guys just don't respond. But keep pointing to anecdotal experiences you have...I have seen it with my own eyes for several years.

Sheesh, so we're arguing over the difference between 1/3 and 1/2? Oh brother. Go on then.

'Pretty much Every' is your exact statement that you stated towards high school players. Most logical people would take that to mean 90%+...It is no where near that number.

Just pointing out that you are a little out of touch...But you continued to defend.

(04-09-2014 01:13 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(04-09-2014 01:10 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(04-09-2014 01:07 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(04-09-2014 12:59 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(04-09-2014 12:55 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  That's a D1 college...Not most high schools...That is what I called bullsh1t.

I seem many of these high school kids and they just aint going to get there...And it is not like 300#s is ground breaking...

I pushed 300 when I weighed 165...But I also know many who didn't even come anywhere close.

I know multiple guys who never stepped anywhere close to a D1 football program that bench more than 400 lbs. Hell, we have a poster on this board that can get 450 (I assume from the s/n).

It sounds like even you were close to 2x body weight, seems like you would have a firm grasp on what's being discussed here.

Argue all you want, I know for a fact that probably close to 1/3 the guys on most football teams will have issues moving 1.5 their body weight. I have seen it...Some guys just don't respond. But keep pointing to anecdotal experiences you have...I have seen it with my own eyes for several years.

Sheesh, so we're arguing over the difference between 1/3 and 1/2? Oh brother. Go on then.

'Pretty much Every' is your exact statement that you stated towards high school players. Most logical people would take that to mean 90%+...It is no where near that number.

Just pointing out that you are a little out of touch...But you continued to defend.

Well, what I should've said is 'your average HS player can throw that up". I'd take that to mean 50% or so.

I think people are just stronger now. I competed in the 198 lb. class back in the day. My lifts were 450 on the bench, 600 on the squat and a 600 dead lift. The best I ever finished was 2nd place. My workout partner was the world powerlifting champion 2 years in a row. If I remember correctly, his numbers were 600, 950 and 950 in the unlimited class where he weighed around 285. He was incredible.

I guess my point is that there are a lot of high school kids out there now that would blow me away. There are just so many freakishly strong athletes out there today, high school and college.

(03-23-2014 09:16 AM)450bench Wrote:  

(03-23-2014 08:15 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(03-23-2014 02:44 AM)thagr82008 Wrote:  

(03-22-2014 11:22 PM)TigerBill Wrote:  

(03-22-2014 06:07 PM)450bench Wrote:  Shaq has a mild case of skillet hands. He has certainly improved though.

Oh sure, the guy isn't great yet or anything, but he is definitely better than he was and he is very productive in the paint. Since he worked so hard last off season I'm assuming he'll do it again.

Do you realize that some games he(Shaq) has had just as many, if not more TO's than our guards. Just because he has 10 points doesn't translate to being productive in the paint. Most of his points have come off of steals from transition turnovers; or alley oops. That's not paint production! We also don't see many offensive rebounds or putbacks by Shaq either. he often gets outrebounded by Nick King, when Nick King plays a third of his minutes... I have seen him one time this season; catch the ball near the paint; wait for the defense to show; then back his man into the post and complete the shot. That was against Austin Peay,(If I remember correctly) How often have you seen that happen? He is literally throwing the ball up with absolutely no idea of where the ball is going.

And believe me, I am not trying to bash him, but until he develops a definite post move that is consistent and refrain from fumbling the ball out of bounds or getting his shot pinned in his face because he doesn't understand how to utilize a pump-fake to gain an advantage over the defender......he should be relegated to hustling for rebounds to get his points...He has no go-to post move. If he does, please provide some footage that he can complete this move on a consistent basis with a defender present.

I totally understand that we have not had the luxury of having a post-player with post skills(until Austin Nichols) and if you don't think that there is a difference in the post-play/production of Austin compared to Shaq. I totally see whats going on. But with the ineptness of Shaq's offensive production; we should focus on Austin Nichols touches, as his post efficiency is light years ahead of Shaq's....Especially when we have a lead....Austin is our bread and butter in the post....As once again Shaq has no defined post moves.

The reason why I am stating these fact. In order to win, you must play to your strengths....And unfortunately, at this moment. Shaq's post play is not a strength of this team. And if you happen to think it is...As my coach used to say....."You are fooling your damn-self"

Why do you equate a back-to-the-basket game to "paint production"?

Who cares if he has no post moves? Who does nowadays? Austin's footwork is much better, but when was the last time you saw Austin isolated on the post and score over a defender??? Hasn't happened.

Frankly, Shaq shoots a 60% Total Shooting Percentage as opposing to Austin's 58% and ALL of those points come in the paint.

This isn't the 1980s, there aren't many Hakeems and Robinsons out there. We're an up and down team who need our bigs to be able to run the court; that's 10x more valuable to us than a big fat blob who can make a hook shot 25 seconds into the shot clock.

Austin has been isolated in the paint and scored over defenders plenty. That's kinda his game. His hands and his ability to finish with either hand are his strong points, among other assets he possesses. Shaq is a good player and much improved but offensively, Austin is much better. Shaq is more experienced, more aggressive and more physical. And much, much improved. His hands are just a liability at times.

In Shaq's defense, a lot of his turnovers came from bad ankle passes and over passed lobs from the guards. Some of them came from his insistence on taking a dribble before attempting any shot in the paint even if there were 3 defenders around him which usually resulted in a T.O. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Shaq improve even more this coming season. Free throw improvement could add 4-5 pts to his average.