(02-12-2014 06:51 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-12-2014 06:09 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Lets revisit this once the GOR comes up and see where the mighty Big 12 is financially compared to the others.

If you think theyre going to keep a 10 team conference with no markets outside Texas even with the 4 mega region conferences, then I have some beach front property in Waco to sell you!

Ratings are doing just fine compared to all but the SEC.

Our top games have competed well against the SEC's top games. Yeah, we took a little hit with the aggy move to the SEC but I attribute a good portion of that to Texans wanting to see aggy get beat. When aggy was in the Big 12, their ratings weren't very good.

I've said it before and I will say it again, the Texoma 4 competing at high levels (08 & 09 come to mind) will trump most aggy TV ratings. There are simply more of us (Longhorns, Red Raiders, Sooners and Cowboys) in Texas.

2013 TV Ratings

http://www.goodbullhunting.com/2013/12/4...m-missouri

(02-12-2014 09:15 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  To be fair, this is ESPN's call as opposed to a Texas decision. I kind of understand why ESPN wouldn't release to the Big 12 Network (which is run by ESPN Regional), as the biggest syndication market for them is the Texas market itself and that destroys the leverage that the LHN is trying to create. That blows on paper, but very single other network that has engaged in carriage fights has made the same type of decision. Not providing a local non-Texas outlet like Root Sports for West Virginia fans to watch the game, though, is kind of crappy.

Isn't that leaving money on the table? Why wouldn't they do a one time deal for WV fans to see this game?

Nothing left to say, 10th?

(02-12-2014 03:13 PM)ncbeta Wrote:  

(02-12-2014 03:10 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  WVU can put all future Texas games in Morgantown on WVU's IMG network and make all Longhorn fans pay WVU to watch the game. After all, turn about is fair play. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

That's what WVU should do.

But they can't. ABC/ESPN controls all the B12 basketball games. They decide what conference games they want and which ones they let fall to T3. That is why they can decide to let the WVU/UT bb game go T3 and to the LHN because they have power over what falls to T3. Only if ESPN decides to let the UT/WVU game in WVU fall to T3 could they do that. ESPN is the bad guy in this situation.

I am surprised they are not allowing it to be shown locally in the WVU area. Probably an ESPN call and not UT. Weird because both KU/UT FB games shown on the LHN were allowed to be shown locally. But then again ESPN and FOX split FB and they have to work out a side deal with FOX to get conference games to fall to T3 or else FOX would grab them for T2.

(02-12-2014 11:26 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Nothing left to say, 10th?

I'm surprised you haven't gotten tired of it yet.

Nothing I can say will convince a B12 fan that your conference is seriously flawed and is probably not going to make it in the long run.

(02-13-2014 09:07 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Nothing I can say will convince a B12 fan that your conference is seriously flawed and is probably not going to make it in the long run.

Eh, I am just thrilled to be in a conference that is not in the same discussion as the Mountain West as it relates to overall strength. That got old real fast.

(02-12-2014 10:22 PM)Topkat Wrote:  2013 TV Ratings

http://www.goodbullhunting.com/2013/12/4...m-missouri

Avg. Viewers

SEC - 3,593,577
Big 10 - 2,706,934
ACC - 1,895,508
Pac-12 - 1,814,430
Big 12 - 1,577,781
AAC - 1,148,886

If I were the B12, I wouldn't be pleased with these numbers.

(02-13-2014 10:13 AM)HartfordHusky Wrote:  

(02-12-2014 10:22 PM)Topkat Wrote:  2013 TV Ratings

http://www.goodbullhunting.com/2013/12/4...m-missouri

Avg. Viewers

SEC - 3,593,577
Big 10 - 2,706,934
ACC - 1,895,508
Pac-12 - 1,814,430
Big 12 - 1,577,781
AAC - 1,148,886

If I were the B12, I wouldn't be pleased with these numbers.

Aggie math. It was done by an Aggie and excluded the ABC games which were some of the highest rated for conferences other than the SEC. It also included in the average some of the lower rated networks which hurt the Pac 12 and Big 12 numbers. So it was comparing apples and oranges.

A better analysis for the 2012 season showed the Big 12 right behind the Big 10 and ahead of the Pac 12 and ACC.

A&M vs UTEP drew better than UT vs OU in Houston

This signing day, SEC teams took the top rated recruit in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and Iowa.

But yeah, the Big 12 has nothing to worry about.

(02-13-2014 10:13 AM)HartfordHusky Wrote:  

(02-12-2014 10:22 PM)Topkat Wrote:  2013 TV Ratings

http://www.goodbullhunting.com/2013/12/4...m-missouri

Avg. Viewers

SEC - 3,593,577
Big 10 - 2,706,934
ACC - 1,895,508
Pac-12 - 1,814,430
Big 12 - 1,577,781
AAC - 1,148,886

If I were the B12, I wouldn't be pleased with these numbers.

That is because we have a list that compares apples to oranges.


Average games per team:
SEC: 8.2
B1G: 6.5
ACC: 6.07
PAC: 6
B12: 9
AAC: 4.4
MWC: 3.8
CUSA: 2.64
SBC: 2.1
MAC: 2.64

So a lot the Big 12's WORST games are on national TV dragging averages down and it isn't always true of the others. The ACC for instance puts their worst games on ESPN3 or a regional syndication.

For instance, Wake Forest and Baylor BOTH played ULM. Baylor played them on FS1 and Wake played them on regional syndication. Basically this sinks our average and raises theirs because FS1 in national and the regional game doesn't get included in the ratings.

If we give the Big 12 6 appearances per team (in line with the ACC, PAC, and B1G) the Big 12 average jumps to over 2MM per game, ahead of both the PAC and ACC.

We're doing fine.

Also these numbers don't take into account UT's 3 disappearances on the LHN, Fox/FS1 not being as well known as ABC/ESPN for half the games, and also rain delays causing 2 entries for UT/TCU and OU/TTU that artificially deflate the numbers.

So in short, when you look at it apples to apples we're only behind the SEC and B1G which is not exactly hurting.

(02-13-2014 10:55 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  A&M vs UTEP drew better than UT vs OU in Houston

That is not true.

According to the Houston Chronicle data compiled by JML:
UTEP-A&M drew 3.8
Texas-OU drew 7.1 despite going head to head with unbeaten Tech vs ISU, TCU's game, MSU/UGA, and ND/MichSt.

Quote:This signing day, SEC teams took the top rated recruit in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and Iowa.

Texas is in a coaching change and down, OU is hitting California as hard as they do TX, and KSU (the best northern midwest team) looks more for JUCO's.

Quote:But yeah, the Big 12 has nothing to worry about.

Quit trolling ag.

(02-13-2014 11:04 AM)S11 Wrote:  

(02-13-2014 10:13 AM)HartfordHusky Wrote:  

(02-12-2014 10:22 PM)Topkat Wrote:  2013 TV Ratings

http://www.goodbullhunting.com/2013/12/4...m-missouri

Avg. Viewers

SEC - 3,593,577
Big 10 - 2,706,934
ACC - 1,895,508
Pac-12 - 1,814,430
Big 12 - 1,577,781
AAC - 1,148,886

If I were the B12, I wouldn't be pleased with these numbers.

That is because we have a list that compares apples to oranges.


Average games per team:
SEC: 8.2
B1G: 6.5
ACC: 6.07
PAC: 6
B12: 9
AAC: 4.4
MWC: 3.8
CUSA: 2.64
SBC: 2.1
MAC: 2.64

So a lot the Big 12's WORST games are on national TV dragging averages down and it isn't always true of the others. The ACC for instance puts their worst games on ESPN3 or a regional syndication.

For instance, Wake Forest and Baylor BOTH played ULM. Baylor played them on FS1 and Wake played them on regional syndication. Basically this sinks our average and raises theirs because FS1 in national and the regional game doesn't get included in the ratings.

If we give the Big 12 6 appearances per team (in line with the ACC, PAC, and B1G) the Big 12 average jumps to over 2MM per game, ahead of both the PAC and ACC.

We're doing fine.

Also these numbers don't take into account UT's 3 disappearances on the LHN, Fox/FS1 not being as well known as ABC/ESPN for half the games, and also rain delays causing 2 entries for UT/TCU and OU/TTU that artificially deflate the numbers.

So in short, when you look at it apples to apples we're only behind the SEC and B1G which is not exactly hurting.

A slideshow from Frank The Tanks site that shows in 2011 the Big 12 (aTm and Mizzou included) ranked just ahead of the Pac for football viewership (behind the SEC, B1G and ACC).

Since aTm and Mizzou left the Big 12 it's not a stretch to think they have fallen below the Pac in viewership. I would be surprised if they haven't.

http://frankthetank.me/2012/02/27/sports...edia-buzz/

(02-13-2014 09:07 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Nothing I can say will convince a B12 fan that your conference is seriously flawed and is probably not going to make it in the long run.

True. But your main problem is the B12 isn't seriously flawed. A 10 team conference is the perfect size, because you get round robin play in every sport every year. Every other P5 conference allows teams to avoid powerful teams in their conference with their scheduling. Only the B12 runs the full gauntlet.

Like I said, time will tell on this.

(02-13-2014 11:49 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Like I said, time will tell on this.

Time will tell on everything. That's a universal fact.

(02-13-2014 11:34 AM)Topkat Wrote:  A slideshow from Frank The Tanks site that shows in 2011 the Big 12 (aTm and Mizzou included) ranked just ahead of the Pac for football viewership (behind the SEC, B1G and ACC).

Since aTm and Mizzou left the Big 12 it's not a stretch to think they have fallen below the Pac in viewership. I would be surprised if they haven't.

http://frankthetank.me/2012/02/27/sports...edia-buzz/

The PAC has the best argument vs us compared to the ACC but in the info I just pulled out 6 games each and we were ahead by 300k per game despite a "down" year and the PAC having 2 national contenders (UO and Stanford) and a soap opera at USC. I mean Texas, TCU, WVU, ISU, KU, and KSU all got off to a slow start, UT and WVU upset OU and OSU midseason dragging down the perception of the Okie schools, and left BU and Tech basically carrying the league's national title chances from early October on and while we've both improved our brand it's not the optimal ratings setup.

For us to come out ahead with UT, OU, OSU, WVU, TCU, and KSU all having perception issues at midseason and do so with half our games on the startup FS1/FOX combo is a win. Both issues aren't likely to be this bad in the future. I mean how often are both of the past 2 defending champs, 2-3 biggest brands, and a preseason favorite taken down a peg that early? Not often.

2011 had a lot of differences coverage wise- P12 net wasn't around, our ABC/ESPN extension wasn't kicked in yet IIRC, LHN was starting, and that 2011 data does not tell you which networks are included. Is that just ABC, ESPN, ESPN2, FX, CBS or do smaller outfits like VS, FSN, FCS, or CBSCS get lumped in? Also how many games per school? It would be nice to get the whole data.

Regardless of whether the Big 12 or Pac 12 is slightly ahead way the numbers (when adjusted for apples to apples) don't paint a bad picture on our league or theirs. Frankly with both leagues having to carry FOX/FS1's startup issues it paints them strongly vs the ACC who has all their rated games on the ABC/ESPN platform which is already on people's default channels to watch CFB.

(02-13-2014 10:45 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-13-2014 10:13 AM)HartfordHusky Wrote:  

(02-12-2014 10:22 PM)Topkat Wrote:  2013 TV Ratings

http://www.goodbullhunting.com/2013/12/4...m-missouri

Avg. Viewers

SEC - 3,593,577
Big 10 - 2,706,934
ACC - 1,895,508
Pac-12 - 1,814,430
Big 12 - 1,577,781
AAC - 1,148,886

If I were the B12, I wouldn't be pleased with these numbers.

Aggie math. It was done by an Aggie and excluded the ABC games which were some of the highest rated for conferences other than the SEC. It also included in the average some of the lower rated networks which hurt the Pac 12 and Big 12 numbers. So it was comparing apples and oranges.

A better analysis for the 2012 season showed the Big 12 right behind the Big 10 and ahead of the Pac 12 and ACC.

Do you have the 2012 analysis and how were the abc games messed with?

(btw open up your pm)

(02-13-2014 11:04 AM)S11 Wrote:  

(02-13-2014 10:13 AM)HartfordHusky Wrote:  

(02-12-2014 10:22 PM)Topkat Wrote:  2013 TV Ratings

http://www.goodbullhunting.com/2013/12/4...m-missouri

Avg. Viewers

SEC - 3,593,577
Big 10 - 2,706,934
ACC - 1,895,508
Pac-12 - 1,814,430
Big 12 - 1,577,781
AAC - 1,148,886

If I were the B12, I wouldn't be pleased with these numbers.

That is because we have a list that compares apples to oranges.


Average games per team:
SEC: 8.2
B1G: 6.5
ACC: 6.07
PAC: 6
B12: 9
AAC: 4.4
MWC: 3.8
CUSA: 2.64
SBC: 2.1
MAC: 2.64

So a lot the Big 12's WORST games are on national TV dragging averages down and it isn't always true of the others. The ACC for instance puts their worst games on ESPN3 or a regional syndication.

For instance, Wake Forest and Baylor BOTH played ULM. Baylor played them on FS1 and Wake played them on regional syndication. Basically this sinks our average and raises theirs because FS1 in national and the regional game doesn't get included in the ratings.

If we give the Big 12 6 appearances per team (in line with the ACC, PAC, and B1G) the Big 12 average jumps to over 2MM per game, ahead of both the PAC and ACC.

We're doing fine.

Also these numbers don't take into account UT's 3 disappearances on the LHN, Fox/FS1 not being as well known as ABC/ESPN for half the games, and also rain delays causing 2 entries for UT/TCU and OU/TTU that artificially deflate the numbers.

So in short, when you look at it apples to apples we're only behind the SEC and B1G which is not exactly hurting.

One addendum to these numbers:

We need to factor in channel changes due to rain delays. Games being shoved to ESPNews, FOX News, or the practically invisible FOX Sports 2 is not a fair comparison.

New standings when rain delay changes are factored out:
SEC- 3.6mm (8.2 games per team)
B1G- 2.7mm
PAC- 1.7mm
ACC- 1.7mm
Big 12- 1.62mm (with 9 games per team)
AAC- 1.54mm

And when it's adjusted for 6 games per league member...

SEC- 4.4mm (6 per team avg)
B1G- 2.79 (with slight adjustment to 6 per team avg)
Big 12- 2.08mm (6 per team avg)
PAC 12-1.9 (Once adjusted to 6 games per league member)
ACC- 1.7mm


Also the ACC numbers only reflect 12 teams. Syracuse and NC State weren't included in that average. The PAC 12 doesn't have Colorado's weak ratings dragging them down either. To my knowlege every member of the Big 12, SEC, and B1G are present. The AAC has only 8 of 10 showing up.