(11-18-2013 01:15 PM)DBpirate Wrote:  I understand the issues with byu. I'm not referring to all the mw teams just a select few. Col state is building a brand new 40000 seat stadium and would finally bring the big 12 a replacement for Colorado. New Mexico is right next door to Texas. No schools they add will really bring any serious money it's about getting a champ game for the conference without adding any more travel for the Texas/ok schools

A few thoughts...

First, I grew up in the Denver (Aurora, CO) area and as much as I liked Colorado State, CSU does NOT "deliver" the Denver or "Colorado" media markets. Denver is first and foremost a pro-media market, even CU doesn't have a huge penetration into the Denver market. CSU is far behind CU...maybe even third with Air Force.

Second, CSU ***WANTS*** to build a new 50k seat stadium. They have not, as of yet, secured the funding to do so. It is a huge gamble. Hughes Stadium (the current CSU facility) is already 45k and suitable for the MW level. So for CSU to get the roughly $200MM to build a whole new, even larger, stadium with no guarantee for the B12 to expand with them...well that's a huge risk.

Finally, CSU has self-acknowledged that they depend on their existing rivalries with Air Force, and more importantly Wyoming. As a matter of fact, the "Front Range" bloc is what drives the MW at the moment. (Wyoming, Colorado State, Air Force, and New Mexico) These four schools are as joined at the hip as "Tobacco Road" is in North Carolina. So the idea that CSU is trying to "jump up" is speculative at best.

(11-18-2013 12:52 PM)The Knight Time Wrote:  What's remarkable is how 95% of the ACC is receiving huge money for doing absolutely nothing. The conference is FSU, to a degree Clemson, and a bunch of either average of bad football teams.

It's the one conference that brings in a lot of its money through basketball. So in addition to FSU and Clemson, neither of whom have been very special in football for most of the past 10 years, it's Virginia Tech football and it's also North Carolina, Duke, Syracuse, etc. in basketball. I also wouldn't underestimate the value that Notre Dame football will bring to the conference even though they're technically not a member in that sport.

Since joining the Big 12 (football):

West Virginia:
2012: 7 and 6 overall
4 and 5 in conference
Lost Pinstripe Bowl
2013: 4 and 7 (to date)
2 and 6 in conference (to date)

11 and 13 overall, 6 and 11 in conference

TCU:
2012: 7 and 6 overall
4 and 5 in conference
Lost Buffalo Wild Wings Bowl
2013: 4 and 7 (to date)
2 and 6 in conference (to date)

11 and 13 overall, 6 and 11 in conference

I also wonder how long West Virginia fans will tolerate similar results....regardless of money and exposure. I doubt they enjoy being near the bottom of conference standings. I'm sure it was anticipated that the move would benefit them financially and increase recruiting, etc.

Are they having attendance issues or are they packing the house? How does their football recruiting look? Do they have plans for stadium/arena expansion, upgrades, etc.? I don't really keep up with them but wonder about it.

(11-18-2013 11:56 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(11-18-2013 11:31 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  

(11-17-2013 07:16 PM)Kronke Wrote:  I wonder what TCU fans think.

All those top 5-10 teams, all that BCS bowl glory, and now they are utterly irrelevant in the basement of the Big 12, and won't even see any bowl this year, much less the BCS. Sure, they got paid, but ultimately, what does that matter? They already had plenty of money.

The TCU move for the B12 never made sense to me. Louisville, Cincinnati even Memphis were all better options. They already had Texas locked up.

Several thoughts...

1) TCU was added because, in no small part, THEY WERE IMMEADATELY AVAILABLE. They were unattached to a conference, having already severed ties with the MW but not yet having played in the BE. Had the BE decided to assert themselves, who knows what would have happened. But the BE chose NOT to assert themselves, instead opting for the "amicable" option in which TCU would be granted immediate release but paying the whole $5 MM exit fee. (Of course, TCU then reneged on that promise and it had to go to court before TCU again settled for paying the $5MM fee...Which I am not entirely sure they ever paid...) But the main point is that TCU could make the move relatively quickly and easily... IT MADE SENSE.

2) TCU was also an established "top performing" program with one of the best coaches in the country (in Gary Patterson). At the time, TCU undoubtedly brought credit to Big XII football which had just suffered the loss of TAMU, Mizzou, and Nebraska, which are BIG name programs. The Big XII is ALL ABOUT football pedigree and TCU brought with them an impressive pedigree that UC does not.

3) It is pretty well established fact that the Big XII thought that Louisville would be available...at a later point. It is fairly clear that the B12's calculation was to add WVU immediately and Louisville a little later to stabilize the conference AFTER the ACC situation was clarified. Had the ACC imploded, the B12 probably would have added Florida State, Clemson, and either Miami or Georgia Tech, along with Louisville to get to 14. BUT that's NOT what happened, and the ACC shocked everyone by staying together AND adding Louisville. Was it short-sighted of the B12? Maybe. But it was at least a calculated decision.

4) Will the B12 add additional teams? PROBBABLY NOT IN THE SHORT TERM. The one program that would appeal to the B12's sensibilities is BYU. That's it. It is clear that UC does not. UC lacks the FB pedigree and fan-market to appeal to the B12. UC does not "fit" the traditional B12 model of a university in a "university town/city" like the rest of the B12. Likewise, Memphis does not. The ONLY AAC school that "fits" the B12 template is...wait for it... ECU.

The B12 will ONLY add teams when it is either forced to or it makes sense for them to. That ***might*** happen in the next 4-6 years when the CFP gets established and conferences with a CCG begin to leap-frog the B12 because of that extra game. Then, and only then, will the B12 begin to look outside their values of "football pedigree" and "template" to add UC or Memphis...and likely then ONLY with BYU.

That's life people...

I don't think the B12 adds any schools. I think the Texahoma 4 leave for the Pac12 after bleeding the B12 dry. Then WVU will have the opportunity to add eastern schools.

B12 East
UConn
WVU
ECU
Cincinnati
USF
UCF

B12 West
ISU
KU
KSU
Baylor
TCU
Memphis

That's an interesting mix of schools, some great bb though.

(11-18-2013 02:26 PM)40smokingcannon Wrote:  Since joining the Big 12 (football):

West Virginia:
2012: 7 and 6 overall
4 and 5 in conference
Lost Pinstripe Bowl
2013: 4 and 7 (to date)
2 and 6 in conference (to date)

11 and 13 overall, 6 and 11 in conference

TCU:
2012: 7 and 6 overall
4 and 5 in conference
Lost Buffalo Wild Wings Bowl
2013: 4 and 7 (to date)
2 and 6 in conference (to date)

11 and 13 overall, 6 and 11 in conference

I also wonder how long West Virginia fans will tolerate similar results....regardless of money and exposure. I doubt they enjoy being near the bottom of conference standings. I'm sure it was anticipated that the move would benefit them financially and increase recruiting, etc.

Are they having attendance issues or are they packing the house? How does their football recruiting look? Do they have plans for stadium/arena expansion, upgrades, etc.? I don't really keep up with them but wonder about it.

Attendance at FB games has been pretty strong, so far. But the real question is the last game of the season against Iowa State, which will take place when the WVU students are on break, and there is nothing really at stake. Personally, I am planning on taking my kids to that game (they will be in town...I only have them every other weekend) since tickets should be plentiful and the most obnoxious fans are likely to be gone. There are many who are anticipating attendance to be well below 30K at that final game.

Men's Basketball has taken a worse hit. Part of that is that Oliver Luck implemented a new ticket sales plan for the WVU coliseum which saw people who had generations of season tickets lose their seats and the seats resold at a higher rate. Many people were so disgruntled at having their seats taken from out under them that they are refusing to renew their season tickets at all. But BB games also are different than FB games: they occur during the week and at night (where it is more difficult for visiting fan-bases to travel...), there are more of them (which means more tickets to sell), and people can watch more of them on TV... WVU is doubtless missing the close fan-bases which used to travel into Morgantown for BB games: Pitt, Temple, VaTech, 'Nova, Cincinnati, and even Georgetown and DePaul were conceivable trips into Morgantown. All those are gone now... Fans are not going to travel from Texas to catch a weeknight game and even alumni who live in the area are not likely to travel in to see a game when they can catch it on TV. Not only that, but the BB games start "late" for the Eastern time zone, since all the other teams are in the Central zone.

Point is, that FB seems to be holding it's own given schools like UT, OU, OSU, and even Texas Tech travel pretty well. But BB is different and worrisome.

(11-18-2013 02:45 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  

(11-18-2013 11:56 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(11-18-2013 11:31 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  

(11-17-2013 07:16 PM)Kronke Wrote:  I wonder what TCU fans think.

All those top 5-10 teams, all that BCS bowl glory, and now they are utterly irrelevant in the basement of the Big 12, and won't even see any bowl this year, much less the BCS. Sure, they got paid, but ultimately, what does that matter? They already had plenty of money.

The TCU move for the B12 never made sense to me. Louisville, Cincinnati even Memphis were all better options. They already had Texas locked up.

Several thoughts...

1) TCU was added because, in no small part, THEY WERE IMMEADATELY AVAILABLE. They were unattached to a conference, having already severed ties with the MW but not yet having played in the BE. Had the BE decided to assert themselves, who knows what would have happened. But the BE chose NOT to assert themselves, instead opting for the "amicable" option in which TCU would be granted immediate release but paying the whole $5 MM exit fee. (Of course, TCU then reneged on that promise and it had to go to court before TCU again settled for paying the $5MM fee...Which I am not entirely sure they ever paid...) But the main point is that TCU could make the move relatively quickly and easily... IT MADE SENSE.

2) TCU was also an established "top performing" program with one of the best coaches in the country (in Gary Patterson). At the time, TCU undoubtedly brought credit to Big XII football which had just suffered the loss of TAMU, Mizzou, and Nebraska, which are BIG name programs. The Big XII is ALL ABOUT football pedigree and TCU brought with them an impressive pedigree that UC does not.

3) It is pretty well established fact that the Big XII thought that Louisville would be available...at a later point. It is fairly clear that the B12's calculation was to add WVU immediately and Louisville a little later to stabilize the conference AFTER the ACC situation was clarified. Had the ACC imploded, the B12 probably would have added Florida State, Clemson, and either Miami or Georgia Tech, along with Louisville to get to 14. BUT that's NOT what happened, and the ACC shocked everyone by staying together AND adding Louisville. Was it short-sighted of the B12? Maybe. But it was at least a calculated decision.

4) Will the B12 add additional teams? PROBBABLY NOT IN THE SHORT TERM. The one program that would appeal to the B12's sensibilities is BYU. That's it. It is clear that UC does not. UC lacks the FB pedigree and fan-market to appeal to the B12. UC does not "fit" the traditional B12 model of a university in a "university town/city" like the rest of the B12. Likewise, Memphis does not. The ONLY AAC school that "fits" the B12 template is...wait for it... ECU.

The B12 will ONLY add teams when it is either forced to or it makes sense for them to. That ***might*** happen in the next 4-6 years when the CFP gets established and conferences with a CCG begin to leap-frog the B12 because of that extra game. Then, and only then, will the B12 begin to look outside their values of "football pedigree" and "template" to add UC or Memphis...and likely then ONLY with BYU.

That's life people...

I don't think the B12 adds any schools. I think the Texahoma 4 leave for the Pac12 after bleeding the B12 dry. Then WVU will have the opportunity to add eastern schools.

B12 East
UConn
WVU
ECU
Cincinnati
USF
UCF

B12 West
ISU
KU
KSU
Baylor
TCU
Memphis

That's an interesting mix of schools, some great bb though.

That is $60million in exit fee money for the remaining AAC members.

(11-18-2013 04:05 PM)Dasville Wrote:  

(11-18-2013 02:45 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  

(11-18-2013 11:56 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(11-18-2013 11:31 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  

(11-17-2013 07:16 PM)Kronke Wrote:  I wonder what TCU fans think.

All those top 5-10 teams, all that BCS bowl glory, and now they are utterly irrelevant in the basement of the Big 12, and won't even see any bowl this year, much less the BCS. Sure, they got paid, but ultimately, what does that matter? They already had plenty of money.

The TCU move for the B12 never made sense to me. Louisville, Cincinnati even Memphis were all better options. They already had Texas locked up.

Several thoughts...

1) TCU was added because, in no small part, THEY WERE IMMEADATELY AVAILABLE. They were unattached to a conference, having already severed ties with the MW but not yet having played in the BE. Had the BE decided to assert themselves, who knows what would have happened. But the BE chose NOT to assert themselves, instead opting for the "amicable" option in which TCU would be granted immediate release but paying the whole $5 MM exit fee. (Of course, TCU then reneged on that promise and it had to go to court before TCU again settled for paying the $5MM fee...Which I am not entirely sure they ever paid...) But the main point is that TCU could make the move relatively quickly and easily... IT MADE SENSE.

2) TCU was also an established "top performing" program with one of the best coaches in the country (in Gary Patterson). At the time, TCU undoubtedly brought credit to Big XII football which had just suffered the loss of TAMU, Mizzou, and Nebraska, which are BIG name programs. The Big XII is ALL ABOUT football pedigree and TCU brought with them an impressive pedigree that UC does not.

3) It is pretty well established fact that the Big XII thought that Louisville would be available...at a later point. It is fairly clear that the B12's calculation was to add WVU immediately and Louisville a little later to stabilize the conference AFTER the ACC situation was clarified. Had the ACC imploded, the B12 probably would have added Florida State, Clemson, and either Miami or Georgia Tech, along with Louisville to get to 14. BUT that's NOT what happened, and the ACC shocked everyone by staying together AND adding Louisville. Was it short-sighted of the B12? Maybe. But it was at least a calculated decision.

4) Will the B12 add additional teams? PROBBABLY NOT IN THE SHORT TERM. The one program that would appeal to the B12's sensibilities is BYU. That's it. It is clear that UC does not. UC lacks the FB pedigree and fan-market to appeal to the B12. UC does not "fit" the traditional B12 model of a university in a "university town/city" like the rest of the B12. Likewise, Memphis does not. The ONLY AAC school that "fits" the B12 template is...wait for it... ECU.

The B12 will ONLY add teams when it is either forced to or it makes sense for them to. That ***might*** happen in the next 4-6 years when the CFP gets established and conferences with a CCG begin to leap-frog the B12 because of that extra game. Then, and only then, will the B12 begin to look outside their values of "football pedigree" and "template" to add UC or Memphis...and likely then ONLY with BYU.

That's life people...

I don't think the B12 adds any schools. I think the Texahoma 4 leave for the Pac12 after bleeding the B12 dry. Then WVU will have the opportunity to add eastern schools.

B12 East
UConn
WVU
ECU
Cincinnati
USF
UCF

B12 West
ISU
KU
KSU
Baylor
TCU
Memphis

That's an interesting mix of schools, some great bb though.

That is $60million in exit fee money for the remaining AAC members.

Unless the league somehow disbanded with half the members leaving. Tulane, Tulsa, SMU, Houston, Navy, and Temple isn't exactly a good strategy for rebuilding.

(11-18-2013 01:18 PM)shere khan Wrote:  Yes. We need another old big east team to soften the schedule