I would hope beating Virginia Tech gave a few students the football bug, but I guess not.

The problem boils down to culture. JMU doesn't have a sports culture, it has a party culture. I would wager 90% of students would rather go to a generic house party than go to a football game. While sports is great for alums and connects us to our old friends/acquaintances, JMU isn't nationally relevant enough to bring people back en masse. 25k was a goal that would've been attainable had we had a plan to transition to FBS. However, years of mediocre play and crappy home opponents (St. Francis and CCSU twice in 3 years) will underwhelm even the most diehard fans.

(10-14-2013 09:29 AM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  I would hope beating Virginia Tech gave a few students the football bug, but I guess not.

The problem boils down to culture. JMU doesn't have a sports culture, it has a party culture. I would wager 90% of students would rather go to a generic house party than go to a football game. While sports is great for alums and connects us to our old friends/acquaintances, JMU isn't nationally relevant enough to bring people back en masse. 25k was a goal that would've been attainable had we had a plan to transition to FBS. However, years of mediocre play and crappy home opponents (St. Francis and CCSU twice in 3 years) will underwhelm even the most diehard fans.

This year's senior class were freshmen when we beat Tech. Every single senior remembers that day and how great it was. The problem is, that win was followed up with a 6-5 season. The next season was 7-4 and no home playoff game. The next was 7-4 and no playoffs at all. All the while, the team is boring to watch and we play no-name teams. It's tough for a casual student fan to care if we beat teams like St. Francis and CCSU but then lose to teams like Delaware or Richmond. They don't know enough about JMU football to know that those are big rivalry games and generally pretty good teams.

This thought process is so prevalent across campus regarding football right now:

"We must suck. We keep losing games to teams like Delaware and Akron. Who the heck are they? And the only time we win is when we play St. Francis and CCSU. We're playing Charlotte today? No thanks. I'm going to go watch Texas A&M and Alabama."

It's hard to combat this because it really is hard to say, "No you should definitely come! We're playing Stony Brook today and it's going to be a great game!" Couple this with boring play on the field and students just don't care and are being given no incentive to care. I'm at every game in the front row, 40 yard line, rain or shine. I think this culture change needs to start at the top, because if we continue down this path, they will have to start paying students to come.

(10-14-2013 09:07 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  regarding student attendance, I still go back to what I said before.

what has ANY student at JMU currently experienced to give them the JMU football "bug"?

I go back to the late 80's, early 90's. and the general indifference toward the football games reminds me of those days. Students went, but it wasn't something you locked in the calendar. And leaving early, or never leaving the tailgate, was just common.

that all changed in 2004. Students, even many alum, experienced something that hit them in their core. the experiences of that year and the euphoria of winning the title deepened a bond. You could see it in the following year with packed student crowds, a MASSIVE increase in Duke Club donations (from 500,000 a year to 2,000,000 a year it is now).

that title was then followed up by more playoff games and the Landers era, which was probably the most exciting "on the field" product we've ever seen at JMU. Those games during 2008 were just plain entertaining to watch. Big plays all over and a once in a lifetime exciting player. it further deepened the bond.

but today's seniors were freshmen in 2009....and what has happened since then?

6-5
6-5
8-5
7-4

no home playoff games. and a boring brand of football.

these current students have had nothing to get at the core and give them that football "bug". Until that happens, I don't see student attendance improving.

If they were freshman fall 2009, they graduated last may 2013. Your point stands though. A majority female student body and 4 years of a dull offense has made them disinterested. 1 playoff appearance and no playoff home games.

(10-13-2013 05:12 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  JMad03 might have insight into what happened as he sits behind us. I really don't know what sparked the whole ordeal; if he actually had a complaint or decided to take turn it into a "situation" on his own.

I'm a little late in posting this, but I didn't think you were doing anything wrong. You were definitely the noisiest fan there (nothing wrong with that). You weren't swearing, and your "I hate Richmond"'s and "Kill the Ticks" didn't have any pure hatred or anything. I thought it was great.
I think someone must have issued a complaint thinking you were drunk, because the medical staff first came up there. Then when the cop came up, I thought that someone must have complained about it. Thought the cop was being a bit of a jerk (okay, more than a bit).
There were quite a few families with kids and maybe the word "kill" is too harsh for them. God forbid they have to explain something to their children.
By the way, huge kudos for the way you handled it. We need more fans like you in the stands- makes games way more fun.

(10-14-2013 09:47 AM)JMU2014 Wrote:  

(10-14-2013 09:29 AM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  I would hope beating Virginia Tech gave a few students the football bug, but I guess not.

The problem boils down to culture. JMU doesn't have a sports culture, it has a party culture. I would wager 90% of students would rather go to a generic house party than go to a football game. While sports is great for alums and connects us to our old friends/acquaintances, JMU isn't nationally relevant enough to bring people back en masse. 25k was a goal that would've been attainable had we had a plan to transition to FBS. However, years of mediocre play and crappy home opponents (St. Francis and CCSU twice in 3 years) will underwhelm even the most diehard fans.

This year's senior class were freshmen when we beat Tech. Every single senior remembers that day and how great it was. The problem is, that win was followed up with a 6-5 season. The next season was 7-4 and no home playoff game. The next was 7-4 and no playoffs at all. All the while, the team is boring to watch and we play no-name teams. It's tough for a casual student fan to care if we beat teams like St. Francis and CCSU but then lose to teams like Delaware or Richmond. They don't know enough about JMU football to know that those are big rivalry games and generally pretty good teams.

This thought process is so prevalent across campus regarding football right now:

"We must suck. We keep losing games to teams like Delaware and Akron. Who the heck are they? And the only time we win is when we play St. Francis and CCSU. We're playing Charlotte today? No thanks. I'm going to go watch Texas A&M and Alabama."

It's hard to combat this because it really is hard to say, "No you should definitely come! We're playing Stony Brook today and it's going to be a great game!" Couple this with boring play on the field and students just don't care and are being given no incentive to care. I'm at every game in the front row, 40 yard line, rain or shine. I think this culture change needs to start at the top, because if we continue down this path, they will have to start paying students to come.

I don't intend for this come off the wrong way, but 7-4 are not actually awful seasons. Don't get me wrong I would prefer 9-2 or better and think we should have been better those 7-4 years.....but to just throw up your hands and say that's not good enough to come get your 'free ticket' And I say 'free ticket' b/c when we move up to FBS don't be surprised if students tickets are no longer 'free'.

You got a problem with Charlotte - well that is one of our future conference opponents if we get into C-USA. Don't like Richmond, that is a big rival. To get 7 home games in a season yeah, you have to have some fluff in the schedule.

It is just embarrassing to have the national 3:30 game on NBC sports in what was a huge-game for JMU and the student body to appear not to give a crap. It seems to me they would rather pile up and watch a crappy UVA-MD game. And that is the main problem - we have waaayyy too many student that are more concerned with UVA and VT athletics than JMU's. If that is the way they felt they should have gone to one of the aforementioned schools.

Yeah, maybe yelling kill was the trigger. I'll own that (as absurd as it seems), but yeah, still confused. Why was medical there?

(10-14-2013 10:12 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(10-14-2013 09:47 AM)JMU2014 Wrote:  

(10-14-2013 09:29 AM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  I would hope beating Virginia Tech gave a few students the football bug, but I guess not.

The problem boils down to culture. JMU doesn't have a sports culture, it has a party culture. I would wager 90% of students would rather go to a generic house party than go to a football game. While sports is great for alums and connects us to our old friends/acquaintances, JMU isn't nationally relevant enough to bring people back en masse. 25k was a goal that would've been attainable had we had a plan to transition to FBS. However, years of mediocre play and crappy home opponents (St. Francis and CCSU twice in 3 years) will underwhelm even the most diehard fans.

This year's senior class were freshmen when we beat Tech. Every single senior remembers that day and how great it was. The problem is, that win was followed up with a 6-5 season. The next season was 7-4 and no home playoff game. The next was 7-4 and no playoffs at all. All the while, the team is boring to watch and we play no-name teams. It's tough for a casual student fan to care if we beat teams like St. Francis and CCSU but then lose to teams like Delaware or Richmond. They don't know enough about JMU football to know that those are big rivalry games and generally pretty good teams.

This thought process is so prevalent across campus regarding football right now:

"We must suck. We keep losing games to teams like Delaware and Akron. Who the heck are they? And the only time we win is when we play St. Francis and CCSU. We're playing Charlotte today? No thanks. I'm going to go watch Texas A&M and Alabama."

It's hard to combat this because it really is hard to say, "No you should definitely come! We're playing Stony Brook today and it's going to be a great game!" Couple this with boring play on the field and students just don't care and are being given no incentive to care. I'm at every game in the front row, 40 yard line, rain or shine. I think this culture change needs to start at the top, because if we continue down this path, they will have to start paying students to come.

I don't intend for this come off the wrong way, but 7-4 are not actually awful seasons. Don't get me wrong I would prefer 9-2 or better and think we should have been better those 7-4 years.....but to just throw up your hands and say that's not good enough to come get your 'free ticket' And I say 'free ticket' b/c when we move up to FBS don't be surprised if students tickets are no longer 'free'.

awful? No.

but 4 consecutive seasons with at least 4 losses is, IMO, unacceptable for a program with the resources available at JMU.

Montana, app St, North Dakota st, etc. They would all feel the same way.

(10-14-2013 10:06 AM)JMad03 Wrote:  There were quite a few families with kids and maybe the word "kill" is too harsh for them. God forbid they have to explain something to their children.

I was there in 406 row I with my wife and kids - age 5 and 2. We thought you were hilarious. As a parent with small kids, there was nothing even remotely offensive about what you were saying. In fact, I never even connected the dots that the cops and EMT's going up the stairs were there for you.

The best quote was definitely "If you don't hate Richmond get different seats." I even said to my wife that's probably that guy HyperDuke from the message boards...who else would scream "I Hate Richmond?"

(10-14-2013 09:06 AM)DirtyDukes Wrote:  

(10-13-2013 07:24 PM)JMUSuperfan2000 Wrote:  Getting targeted by the cops at games really does get old quickly. For a number of years (yes, years!), there was a cop planted in front of me at just about every game looking for a reason to come have a chat. Even the game that Devil got the end zone couch, we had a cop not-so-subtly positioned about 10 feet from us. Contrary to the beliefs of certain members of the administration, I really didn't do anything other than be loud and try to get people up around me. (Argue away about the peanut cheer, but I still think that's fairly tame compared to a lot of things out there.) It wasn't until last year that I could finally go to a game without a cop standing right in front of me. JMU really does know how to kill a fan base, though.

In the officer's defense, you did love to throw peanuts at opposing teams fans....

Hey, that was one game! And if a certain someone wasn't using the stupid thunder sticks to play baseball with the peanuts... Still, I'll be the first one to grant you the chat and subsequent escort out of the stadium for that game was completely warranted. And as tanked as I was, the officer only walked me out of the stadium and basically said to be safe and have a nice day. Nowadays, I would've landed in stadium jail and probably had to go before a judge.

The sad thing is - as Dirty knows quite well - that wasn't even the game that garnered all of the attention.

Appreciate the positive feedback. When someone treats you like a criminal, sometimes you internalize it & start to doubt how you remember the event. This helps. Thanks.

(10-14-2013 10:17 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  

(10-14-2013 10:12 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(10-14-2013 09:47 AM)JMU2014 Wrote:  

(10-14-2013 09:29 AM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  I would hope beating Virginia Tech gave a few students the football bug, but I guess not.

The problem boils down to culture. JMU doesn't have a sports culture, it has a party culture. I would wager 90% of students would rather go to a generic house party than go to a football game. While sports is great for alums and connects us to our old friends/acquaintances, JMU isn't nationally relevant enough to bring people back en masse. 25k was a goal that would've been attainable had we had a plan to transition to FBS. However, years of mediocre play and crappy home opponents (St. Francis and CCSU twice in 3 years) will underwhelm even the most diehard fans.

This year's senior class were freshmen when we beat Tech. Every single senior remembers that day and how great it was. The problem is, that win was followed up with a 6-5 season. The next season was 7-4 and no home playoff game. The next was 7-4 and no playoffs at all. All the while, the team is boring to watch and we play no-name teams. It's tough for a casual student fan to care if we beat teams like St. Francis and CCSU but then lose to teams like Delaware or Richmond. They don't know enough about JMU football to know that those are big rivalry games and generally pretty good teams.

This thought process is so prevalent across campus regarding football right now:

"We must suck. We keep losing games to teams like Delaware and Akron. Who the heck are they? And the only time we win is when we play St. Francis and CCSU. We're playing Charlotte today? No thanks. I'm going to go watch Texas A&M and Alabama."

It's hard to combat this because it really is hard to say, "No you should definitely come! We're playing Stony Brook today and it's going to be a great game!" Couple this with boring play on the field and students just don't care and are being given no incentive to care. I'm at every game in the front row, 40 yard line, rain or shine. I think this culture change needs to start at the top, because if we continue down this path, they will have to start paying students to come.

I don't intend for this come off the wrong way, but 7-4 are not actually awful seasons. Don't get me wrong I would prefer 9-2 or better and think we should have been better those 7-4 years.....but to just throw up your hands and say that's not good enough to come get your 'free ticket' And I say 'free ticket' b/c when we move up to FBS don't be surprised if students tickets are no longer 'free'.

awful? No.

but 4 consecutive seasons with at least 4 losses is, IMO, unacceptable for a program with the resources available at JMU.

Montana, app St, North Dakota st, etc. They would all feel the same way.

I agree with you JMU should not roll out 4 consecutive seasons with 4 losses. But with that, that makes every game even more meaningful and you have a shot to make the playoffs......it's not like MM has a hung a huge turd of a season out there lately (2-9, 3-8).

I am not sure what the answer is with regard to getting students to care, but when you have a student body of approximately 20k and you cannot get 1/3 to come to the games and if they do.....to stay past halftime what's it gonna take?

I am not convinced winning will do it - can't go 12-0, 11-1, 10-2 every year. The last few seasons when JMU was highly ranked coming into the season, the students were not there then either. That was before they limped home to finish 7-4.

Say what you will about MM, but he has a pretty dang good home record (around .750 I think)....and I am convinced that could be that much better with a loud, rowdy student section. It is tough to count on us old farts to be your loud, rowdy bunch - but some of us try our best. That fanbase HAS TO COME FROM STUDENTS!!!!!!!!!!!

(10-14-2013 09:47 AM)JMU2014 Wrote:  

(10-14-2013 09:29 AM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  I would hope beating Virginia Tech gave a few students the football bug, but I guess not.

This year's senior class were freshmen when we beat Tech. Every single senior remembers that day and how great it was. The problem is, that win was followed up with a 6-5 season. The next season was 7-4 and no home playoff game. The next was 7-4 and no playoffs at all. All the while, the team is boring to watch and we play no-name teams. It's tough for a casual student fan to care if we beat teams like St. Francis and CCSU but then lose to teams like Delaware or Richmond. They don't know enough about JMU football to know that those are big rivalry games and generally pretty good teams.

This.

Also, if you took a random sampling of students, who would they say is our biggest sports rival? I doubt any of them would say Richmond, and I'm not sure how many would say Delaware. I'd be interested to see what school comes out on top these days.

(10-14-2013 10:12 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  Don't get me wrong I would prefer 9-2 or better and think we should have been better those 7-4 years.....but to just throw up your hands and say that's not good enough to come get your 'free ticket' And I say 'free ticket' b/c when we move up to FBS don't be surprised if students tickets are no longer 'free'.

The last however many years prior to this one, I always got two season tickets, figuring someone would always be interested in chipping in a few bucks to go to the game or going for free more often than not. The last two years, I couldn't even find friends to take a free ticket to all but about three games. It finally became no longer worth it when this year's schedule came out.

(10-14-2013 10:12 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(10-14-2013 09:47 AM)JMU2014 Wrote:  

(10-14-2013 09:29 AM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  I would hope beating Virginia Tech gave a few students the football bug, but I guess not.

The problem boils down to culture. JMU doesn't have a sports culture, it has a party culture. I would wager 90% of students would rather go to a generic house party than go to a football game. While sports is great for alums and connects us to our old friends/acquaintances, JMU isn't nationally relevant enough to bring people back en masse. 25k was a goal that would've been attainable had we had a plan to transition to FBS. However, years of mediocre play and crappy home opponents (St. Francis and CCSU twice in 3 years) will underwhelm even the most diehard fans.

This year's senior class were freshmen when we beat Tech. Every single senior remembers that day and how great it was. The problem is, that win was followed up with a 6-5 season. The next season was 7-4 and no home playoff game. The next was 7-4 and no playoffs at all. All the while, the team is boring to watch and we play no-name teams. It's tough for a casual student fan to care if we beat teams like St. Francis and CCSU but then lose to teams like Delaware or Richmond. They don't know enough about JMU football to know that those are big rivalry games and generally pretty good teams.

This thought process is so prevalent across campus regarding football right now:

"We must suck. We keep losing games to teams like Delaware and Akron. Who the heck are they? And the only time we win is when we play St. Francis and CCSU. We're playing Charlotte today? No thanks. I'm going to go watch Texas A&M and Alabama."

It's hard to combat this because it really is hard to say, "No you should definitely come! We're playing Stony Brook today and it's going to be a great game!" Couple this with boring play on the field and students just don't care and are being given no incentive to care. I'm at every game in the front row, 40 yard line, rain or shine. I think this culture change needs to start at the top, because if we continue down this path, they will have to start paying students to come.

I don't intend for this come off the wrong way, but 7-4 are not actually awful seasons. Don't get me wrong I would prefer 9-2 or better and think we should have been better those 7-4 years.....but to just throw up your hands and say that's not good enough to come get your 'free ticket' And I say 'free ticket' b/c when we move up to FBS don't be surprised if students tickets are no longer 'free'.

You got a problem with Charlotte - well that is one of our future conference opponents if we get into C-USA. Don't like Richmond, that is a big rival. To get 7 home games in a season yeah, you have to have some fluff in the schedule.

It is just embarrassing to have the national 3:30 game on NBC sports in what was a huge-game for JMU and the student body to appear not to give a crap. It seems to me they would rather pile up and watch a crappy UVA-MD game. And that is the main problem - we have waaayyy too many student that are more concerned with UVA and VT athletics than JMU's. If that is the way they felt they should have gone to one of the aforementioned schools.

These two programs have something in common besides membership in the ACC. It's the 500 pound gorilla in the room and it will always be the 500 pound gorilla in the room. Football purest know Villanova & Richmond are good teams but the casual fan sees high school like bleacher stadiums with tracks around the field and the "gotta be there" variable is lost.

(10-14-2013 09:47 AM)JMU2014 Wrote:  

(10-14-2013 09:29 AM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  I would hope beating Virginia Tech gave a few students the football bug, but I guess not.

The problem boils down to culture. JMU doesn't have a sports culture, it has a party culture. I would wager 90% of students would rather go to a generic house party than go to a football game. While sports is great for alums and connects us to our old friends/acquaintances, JMU isn't nationally relevant enough to bring people back en masse. 25k was a goal that would've been attainable had we had a plan to transition to FBS. However, years of mediocre play and crappy home opponents (St. Francis and CCSU twice in 3 years) will underwhelm even the most diehard fans.

This year's senior class were freshmen when we beat Tech. Every single senior remembers that day and how great it was. The problem is, that win was followed up with a 6-5 season. The next season was 7-4 and no home playoff game. The next was 7-4 and no playoffs at all. All the while, the team is boring to watch and we play no-name teams. It's tough for a casual student fan to care if we beat teams like St. Francis and CCSU but then lose to teams like Delaware or Richmond. They don't know enough about JMU football to know that those are big rivalry games and generally pretty good teams.

This thought process is so prevalent across campus regarding football right now:

"We must suck. We keep losing games to teams like Delaware and Akron. Who the heck are they? And the only time we win is when we play St. Francis and CCSU. We're playing Charlotte today? No thanks. I'm going to go watch Texas A&M and Alabama."

It's hard to combat this because it really is hard to say, "No you should definitely come! We're playing Stony Brook today and it's going to be a great game!" Couple this with boring play on the field and students just don't care and are being given no incentive to care. I'm at every game in the front row, 40 yard line, rain or shine. I think this culture change needs to start at the top, because if we continue down this path, they will have to start paying students to come.

Not an excuse this yr.

It really isn't that difficult. We haven't been exciting to watch until recently, and quite frankly, we can still be pretty boring at times. Boring is fine if you're winning, but boring and a mediocre record isn't going to lead to great interest. We haven't had any kind of real success since 2008. We haven't contended for a conference championship since then. The national championship is coming up on being 10 years ago. There's a solid chance that approximately 1% of students currently attending JMU even watched that game on TV. Beating VT a few years ago was awesome, but the students that got hyped up from that victory showed up to the next four home games to watch us squeak by Liberty in a horrible game, then lose the next three games at home. Oh yea, by the way, it's been raining the last two home games. Find me any FCS program that has a full student section in the rain. Hell, outside of the SEC, tell me an FBS program with a full student section in the rain. Go ahead, I'll wait.


Sarcastic remark in closing, can you really blame ANYONE for leaving at halftime, that's when we usually stop playing anyway!

(10-14-2013 11:30 AM)JMU_Newbill Wrote:  It really isn't that difficult. We haven't been exciting to watch until recently, and quite frankly, we can still be pretty boring at times. Boring is fine if you're winning, but boring and a mediocre record isn't going to lead to great interest. We haven't had any kind of real success since 2008. We haven't contended for a conference championship since then. The national championship is coming up on being 10 years ago. There's a solid chance that approximately 1% of students currently attending JMU even watched that game on TV. Beating VT a few years ago was awesome, but the students that got hyped up from that victory showed up to the next four home games to watch us squeak by Liberty in a horrible game, then lose the next three games at home. Oh yea, by the way, it's been raining the last two home games. Find me any FCS program that has a full student section in the rain. Hell, outside of the SEC, tell me an FBS program with a full student section in the rain. Go ahead, I'll wait.


Sarcastic remark in closing, can you really blame ANYONE for leaving at halftime, that's when we usually stop playing anyway!

Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner...

There's usually a difference between cheering loudly and being obnoxious to the point where other fans around you are uncomfortable and embarrassed. Profanities or no profanities, almost all of us know that line crossing when we see it.

Am I the only one who thinks the current team is exciting? We've had some big plays every game and when MB is a run threat, the offense is VERY dynamic.

The defense also isn't as bad as some are making it out. Sure the DBs have struggled a bit, but if this Richmond team has the best passing attack we'll see all year, I'm not too worried. Sure, the guy had like 400 yards, but he also had like 65 attempts. Birdsong played and managed a much better game in my opinion.

^ half of Strauss' yards came in the last eleven minutes of the game. You know, the part of the game, where we quit playing defense. Take that out or play the whole game and they would not have had as much - not even close.

(10-14-2013 11:34 AM)Pitz Wrote:  There's usually a difference between cheering loudly and being obnoxious to the point where other fans around you are uncomfortable and embarrassed. Profanities or no profanities, almost all of us know that line crossing when we see it.

Who crosses that line in your section? Can't tell if this is a thinly-veiled shot at me, but it sure seems like it.