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ACC as a rigged as NASCAR
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CardinalJim Offline
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Post: #61
RE: ACC as a rigged as NASCAR
Common knowledge The SEC has been protecting its ranked teams with phantom calls for years. It's about time The ACC does the same.
CJ
09-22-2013 10:23 AM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #62
RE: ACC as a rigged as NASCAR
(09-22-2013 10:08 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  Why not just have one pool of officials not tied to any conference?

its the NCAA.....they are incapable of doing something logical
09-22-2013 10:29 AM
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dawgitall Offline
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Post: #63
RE: ACC as a rigged as NASCAR
Mistakes are made. The refs are human. Conspiracies are overrated.
09-22-2013 10:46 AM
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USAFMEDIC Offline
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Post: #64
RE: ACC as a rigged as NASCAR
(09-22-2013 10:46 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  Mistakes are made. The refs are human. Conspiracies are overrated.

And a couple cheating teams does not make NASCAR a rigged sport. The cheaters paid dearly.
09-22-2013 10:54 AM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #65
RE: ACC as a rigged as NASCAR
(09-22-2013 10:29 AM)john01992 Wrote:  
(09-22-2013 10:08 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  Why not just have one pool of officials not tied to any conference?
its the NCAA.....they are incapable of doing something logical
At last! We fully agree on something... 04-jawdrop
09-22-2013 11:09 AM
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USAFMEDIC Offline
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Post: #66
RE: ACC as a rigged as NASCAR
(09-22-2013 10:23 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Common knowledge The SEC has been protecting its ranked teams with phantom calls for years. It's about time The ACC does the same.
CJ

Conspiracy? Can you give us some specifics?
09-22-2013 12:27 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #67
RE: ACC as a rigged as NASCAR
(09-22-2013 10:08 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  Why not just have one pool of officials not tied to any conference?

The biggest reason is probably money. No one wants the cost of making CFB officials full-time employees of conferences or the NCAA, so they've always been part-timers.

And when they're part-timers, you have other issues. A ref who is only paid a few hundred bucks may not want to want to fly from his home in Los Angeles to officiate a September game in Virginia, or from his home in Florida to officiate a game in Seattle, etc.

I suspect that ego is an issue as well. If you're an SEC official, you probably get to work your share of big games, and your friends/family/acquaintances know about that. If you take those same officials and put them in a pool of officials that work all games in the south, some of them are going to become disgruntled because they will see fellow refs in the same pool working Bama-LSU, Clemson-FSU, etc. on a regular basis while their own weekly assignments might be UNT-MTSU or ULM-WKU. If those guys then become disenchanted and quit because they never get big-game assignments, you'll have a revolving door of officials.

Having said that, there is some experimentation going on. The Pac-12 and MWC are pooling their men's basketball officials starting this year: http://pac-12.com/article/2013/06/07/pac...g-alliance . Maybe if that works well, there will be more of this, including for football.
09-22-2013 01:41 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #68
RE: ACC as a rigged as NASCAR
(09-22-2013 01:41 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(09-22-2013 10:08 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  Why not just have one pool of officials not tied to any conference?
The biggest reason is probably money. No one wants the cost of making CFB officials full-time employees of conferences or the NCAA, so they've always been part-timers.

And when they're part-timers, you have other issues. A ref who is only paid a few hundred bucks may not want to want to fly from his home in Los Angeles to officiate a September game in Virginia, or from his home in Florida to officiate a game in Seattle, etc.

I suspect that ego is an issue as well. If you're an SEC official, you probably get to work your share of big games, and your friends/family/acquaintances know about that. If you take those same officials and put them in a pool of officials that work all games in the south, some of them are going to become disgruntled because they will see fellow refs in the same pool working Bama-LSU, Clemson-FSU, etc. on a regular basis while their own weekly assignments might be UNT-MTSU or ULM-WKU. If those guys then become disenchanted and quit because they never get big-game assignments, you'll have a revolving door of officials.

Having said that, there is some experimentation going on. The Pac-12 and MWC are pooling their men's basketball officials starting this year: http://pac-12.com/article/2013/06/07/pac...g-alliance . Maybe if that works well, there will be more of this, including for football.
That idea could work. But I have my doubts. No matter how the Pac and MWC work it out, they're still working with part timers, which means the talent level of the officials won't change. The NCAA needs to spend some of the money they make on officials. The money they're spending now is wasted on NCAA execs, and stupid investigations that uncover nothing...
09-22-2013 01:58 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #69
RE: ACC as a rigged as NASCAR
(09-22-2013 01:58 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(09-22-2013 01:41 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(09-22-2013 10:08 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  Why not just have one pool of officials not tied to any conference?
The biggest reason is probably money. No one wants the cost of making CFB officials full-time employees of conferences or the NCAA, so they've always been part-timers.

And when they're part-timers, you have other issues. A ref who is only paid a few hundred bucks may not want to want to fly from his home in Los Angeles to officiate a September game in Virginia, or from his home in Florida to officiate a game in Seattle, etc.

I suspect that ego is an issue as well. If you're an SEC official, you probably get to work your share of big games, and your friends/family/acquaintances know about that. If you take those same officials and put them in a pool of officials that work all games in the south, some of them are going to become disgruntled because they will see fellow refs in the same pool working Bama-LSU, Clemson-FSU, etc. on a regular basis while their own weekly assignments might be UNT-MTSU or ULM-WKU. If those guys then become disenchanted and quit because they never get big-game assignments, you'll have a revolving door of officials.

Having said that, there is some experimentation going on. The Pac-12 and MWC are pooling their men's basketball officials starting this year: http://pac-12.com/article/2013/06/07/pac...g-alliance . Maybe if that works well, there will be more of this, including for football.
That idea could work. But I have my doubts. No matter how the Pac and MWC work it out, they're still working with part timers, which means the talent level of the officials won't change. The NCAA needs to spend some of the money they make on officials. The money they're spending now is wasted on NCAA execs, and stupid investigations that uncover nothing...

I agree. The amount each conference spends on officiating is way too low, especially for the top conferences, compared to the mountains of money they make from TV contracts, ticket sales, donations, etc. It wouldn't surprise me if the entire SEC annual budget to pay football officials is less than the $200,000 that Floyd Mayweather made from betting on TAMU to cover a first-half spread last night.
09-22-2013 02:15 PM
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chargeradio Offline
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Post: #70
ACC as a rigged as NASCAR
Officials are already flying to games. I was actually on a flight from Atlanta to Mobile with two of the officials who worked the South Alabama-Western Kentucky game, and the crew even stayed in the same hotel that I did.

Some travel considerations would have to be made-perhaps there would be 2-3 regional pools.
09-22-2013 09:18 PM
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Rabonchild Offline
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Post: #71
RE: ACC as a rigged as NASCAR
Maybe officials have always been bad and we didn't notice it until HD TV. But I still think the ACC protected Clemson in order to keep them in the top 5
09-24-2013 04:25 PM
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Sultan of Euphonistan Offline
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Post: #72
RE: ACC as a rigged as NASCAR
I believe that the officials that do MAC games are the same as the Big-10 refs so regional would change nothing for the MAC (and complaining about those refs are fairly common).
09-26-2013 12:30 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #73
RE: ACC as a rigged as NASCAR
(09-24-2013 04:25 PM)Rabonchild Wrote:  Maybe officials have always been bad and we didn't notice it until HD TV. But I still think the ACC protected Clemson in order to keep them in the top 5

Nobody wants to examine the possible truth of your observation. Sports fans already live in a world where they can't count on their job security, where they expect corruption in politics, and in procurement of preferential treatment for large corporations in business. Those that have spiritual inclinations have all suffered disappointments with congregational conflict, clergy problems, or big organizational scandals, etc. The last thing they refuse to lose faith in is their sports, hobbies, and pleasant distractions.

I was disabused of my naivete in this area years ago. I had a friend who was a bookie, even though I didn't gamble, he would tell me about the games and how there were two lines, the betting line (often Harrah's odds) and the closing line (a summary of which teams had the heavy money placed on them) and how the heavy money in the closing line lost 70% of the time. Now that was in the 70's and 80's and then it was more with professional sports than with collegiate sports.

Back then virtually no players or coaches were bought off or crooked. And the genuine outcomes of games were seldom manipulated unless it was a very big pick em game. But point spreads were always covered through holding and pass interference calls in the second half. If a first half for a close line was getting out of hand it could happen there as well to keep things doable. If it is a big line like team A plus 14 and the heavy money is on the underdog then having it get out of hand is a good thing. No bad calls need be made. But either way you cut it the house wins. If the money was evenly bet on a game no fix was needed. And by the way even the gambling industry prefers to have the odds set to try to even out the betting. Things are better the less they have to manipulate because the more people believe things are straight the more they are likely to wager and the house always gets a cut even if you win.

With college sports the popularity has been growing at a time when the gambling industry has been hit hard at home in Vegas and Atlantic City. The college game is controlled the same way, yellow hankies. Only now that the future playoff revenues are so large and the TV contracts so big there are new groups who are interested in seeing some control over the game. While I don't know, and am not sure that conferences are actually trying to pick winners and losers to keep their best horses in the race, I do have an open mind to the fact that the amounts of money for the conference that could be at stake would be a very big motive for the conference to do a little guarantee work on behalf of their respective front runners. And since the conference pays the officials I suppose the connections exist to make it happen. I'm just not convinced that such is the case yet.

I could also see where a network might desire for a big game to stay close to hold the audience for advertising rates, but I would have to be convinced that this actually happens to believe it to be true.

Since betting on college games is now as popular as ever the other potential is rather obvious. Most officials for the P5 conferences make over 100,000 for the games they call in the Fall. That's a nice chunk of change, but far from the amounts riding on the point spreads. For those who keep an open mind they can see how shaving a few points could be quite the cottage industry for officials who are more greedy than they are in love with the game. And make no mistake, most officials do what they do because they were drawn to it for love of the game. I don't believe that all officials are corrupt. I doubt that most officials are corrupt. But it only takes one or two on the crews of the big games to make those spreads stay profitable for the house. So is the possibility there for that to happen? Yes. And it always has been. The Black Sox scandal in baseball will tell you it has been with us since the onset of popular athletes and popular sports.

My advice is to love your teams and support them. Enjoy the escape from the more serious and arduous problems of life, and enjoy the games for what they are, entertainment. Don't bet on them and don't think about those who do. If you are a person of faith believe in your God in spite of the corruption of the institution of worship, or its people, or clergy problems. If a God exists it is certainly bigger than all of them and us. If sports lightens your burdens it is worth the price of admission in spite of the little corruptions that may or may not be part of it. To go through life as an idealist is to be perpetually disappointed and to go through life as a cynic is to be perpetually burdened and angry.

It is the time spent with friends, family, and new people to meet that makes sports, worship, the local bar, and life in general worth living and enjoying.

I had another great friend and mentor tell me that if I had a problem to tell him about it. So when one arose I did. He told me if I still had the problem after the next day to call him again. I did. He told me if I still saw no resolution to it to call him one more time. I did and I'll never forget what he told me then. He said if a problem exists longer than three days it is not a problem at all but a fact of life. Accept it as that and get on with your life. It has been one of the more valuable lessons I've ever learned.

You can't enjoy life and be productive for yourself and family if you are always weighed down by the things you can do nothing about. Problems are solvable. When you run into things beyond your control they are by definition not problems because they are not solvable. They are indeed a fact of life and any worry, anger, frustration, or energy you spend on them is a waste of your time. Should you find yourself in a group that can address them with a measure of success only then can you tackle them. Because it is only together that we can change the facts of life that we don't like. Enjoy the games.
09-26-2013 01:38 AM
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