(01-23-2013 09:02 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 08:49 AM)gmubballfan Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 07:28 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  The raging Wichita State debate has actually convinced me of something.

10 teams. No Creighton, no Dayton, no Saint Louis. No candidates without unimpeachable slam-dunk credentials. No one whose resume requires an explanation. We've gone through all the arguments and all the numbers and I'm back to my mic-drop theory.

"Xavier Musketeers. 4 Sweet Sixteens in 5 years. In the Tournament 9 of the last 10 years"
"Butler Bulldogs. Back to Back Final Fours. In the Tournament 6 of the last 10 years."
"VCU Rams. 2011 Final Four. In the Tournament 5 of the last 10 years."

And then you close the door. How important are those 18 league games and maybe 15 televisable non-conference games to FOX? The St. Louis market? The Omaha market? Really? The TV sets and the money are in New York, Philly, Chicago and Washington.

Compared to the other 9 schools in your proposed 10-team league, VCU would be the nouveau-riche dot.com millionaire who annoyed everybody at the country club with his Ferrari and his wife's obnoxious fake tits throughout the 1990s. They'd be Rodney Dangerfield to the C7's Ted Knight in Caddyshack.

Until the Final Four, VCU was so lightly regarded even in Richmond that its own medical school didn't even wanted to be associated with the university's Monroe Park campus.

Now they have one of the hottest young coaches in America, a slew of bandwagon fans and an administration that's all-in on basketball as a means of wallpapering over the university's mediocre academic profile.

But what happens when Shaka inevitably moves on to take over one of the nation's true blue-blood programs? While VCU did well under Capel and Grant (1 total NCAA win), neither coach approached the level of national acclaim that Smart has. Assuming Smart's replacement will automatically keep VCU on its current trajectory is a risky play.

VCU fans desperately want to believe they belong in the company of schools like Georgetown, Xavier, Butler and Villanova. Based on recent basketball success, it would appear that they do. But in just about every other conceivable way, they'd stand out like a sore thumb in a 10-team New Big East. If the C7 presidents are looking for long-term partners, they'll live to regret ever associating with VCU.

60% all time win percentage, which is Top 25 in Division I.

And they're now ranked in USNWR, at least, #170, within 10 spots of Louisville (#160), SDSU (#165), WVU(#165), USF (#170), UCF (#174) and above Houston (#184), and ECU (#199). If Louisville can play their way into the ACC, I think we can live with VCU.

John, you and I both know the only reason Louisville is going to the ACC is because the ACC was desperate to protect its football product and Louisville was the best available addition (not named Notre Dame) after Maryland went to the Big Ten. The ACC presidents will be holding their noses the whole way.

It's an apples to oranges comparison, unless you're saying the C7 presidents are equally desperate and have equally few comparable options for new partners.

I don't think they are. But I'm not eating breakfast on the regular with the C7 presidents, so maybe they think VCU is the best they can do.

(01-23-2013 09:14 AM)gmubballfan Wrote:  John, you and I both know the only reason Louisville is going to the ACC is because the ACC was desperate to protect its football product and Louisville was the best available addition (not named Notre Dame) after Maryland went to the Big Ten. The ACC presidents will be holding their noses the whole way.

It's an apples to oranges comparison, unless you're saying the C7 presidents are equally desperate and have equally few comparable options for new partners.

I don't think they are. But I'm not eating breakfast on the regular with the C7 presidents, so maybe they think VCU is the best they can do.

Agreed, they're not desperate. I think it depends if they see the league more as a business or more as a club. They've been in a league that was more a business venture than a social club for 30 years, so I think that shapes their thinking of what an athletic conference is and does.

That said, they did vote "Yes" on Tulane. Did they push Tulane up the board over ECU and, um I guess Tulsa was next on the list, or did Aresco nominate Tulane and they ratified it? We still don't know the story on that, and maybe never will.

(01-23-2013 07:28 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  The raging Wichita State debate has actually convinced me of something.

10 teams. No Creighton, no Dayton, no Saint Louis. No candidates without unimpeachable slam-dunk credentials. No one whose resume requires an explanation. We've gone through all the arguments and all the numbers and I'm back to my mic-drop theory.

"Xavier Musketeers. 4 Sweet Sixteens in 5 years. In the Tournament 9 of the last 10 years"
"Butler Bulldogs. Back to Back Final Fours. In the Tournament 6 of the last 10 years."
"VCU Rams. 2011 Final Four. In the Tournament 5 of the last 10 years."

And then you close the door. How important are those 18 league games and maybe 15 televisable non-conference games to FOX? The St. Louis market? The Omaha market? Really? The TV sets and the money are in New York, Philly, Chicago and Washington.

I agree with those teams and your rationale, because those are the teams with truly impressive recent history. I have argued a lot about Wichita State, but they don't have that. Neither do the other candidates.

The question for me is not what those teams should be selected now, but what teams should be in the conversation in 3-5 years when the conference seeks to expand. Though Fox may force the C7 to add two other teams.

(01-23-2013 10:05 AM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 07:28 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  The raging Wichita State debate has actually convinced me of something.

10 teams. No Creighton, no Dayton, no Saint Louis. No candidates without unimpeachable slam-dunk credentials. No one whose resume requires an explanation. We've gone through all the arguments and all the numbers and I'm back to my mic-drop theory.

"Xavier Musketeers. 4 Sweet Sixteens in 5 years. In the Tournament 9 of the last 10 years"
"Butler Bulldogs. Back to Back Final Fours. In the Tournament 6 of the last 10 years."
"VCU Rams. 2011 Final Four. In the Tournament 5 of the last 10 years."

And then you close the door. How important are those 18 league games and maybe 15 televisable non-conference games to FOX? The St. Louis market? The Omaha market? Really? The TV sets and the money are in New York, Philly, Chicago and Washington.

I agree with those teams and your rationale, because those are the teams with truly impressive recent history. I have argued a lot about Wichita State, but they don't have that. Neither do the other candidates.

The question for me is not what those teams should be selected now, but what teams should be in the conversation in 3-5 years when the conference seeks to expand. Though Fox may force the C7 to add two other teams.

See, I'm not guaranteeing we expand. 10 teams today, 10 teams tomorrow is my plan.

Now, if someone else has a Butler/VCU/Xavier level of success, then--and only then--do we look at taking a 12th team to balance schedules.

(01-23-2013 10:19 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  See, I'm not guaranteeing we expand. 10 teams today, 10 teams tomorrow is my plan.

Now, if someone else has a Butler/VCU/Xavier level of success, then--and only then--do we look at taking a 12th team to balance schedules.

I think that is fair. From a basketball perspective, you add only the best possible teams.

My only question is how quickly to measure success. Do you value going to the Sweet 16 three times in a row more, or going to the Final Four once? Can you really determine the next Xavier/Butler/VCU in only a couple years, or do you look back after another decade?

But still, I think I would take the same three teams to begin with.

(01-23-2013 10:31 AM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 10:19 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  See, I'm not guaranteeing we expand. 10 teams today, 10 teams tomorrow is my plan.

Now, if someone else has a Butler/VCU/Xavier level of success, then--and only then--do we look at taking a 12th team to balance schedules.

I think that is fair. From a basketball perspective, you add only the best possible teams.

My only question is how quickly to measure success. Do you value going to the Sweet 16 three times in a row more, or going to the Final Four once? Can you really determine the next Xavier/Butler/VCU in only a couple years, or do you look back after another decade?

But still, I think I would take the same three teams to begin with.

I'd use the old Supreme Court Justice's definition of pornography, "I know it when I see it." When "Why is (school name here) not in the Big East?" and/or "When is (school name here) going to the Big EAst?" is a perennial slow-news-day crutch for columnists. When the question becomes not "Who would the Big East take" but "Why haven't they taken (School name here)?"

Creighton, Dayton and WSU have been to the tournament enough times that a sudden Final Four run or three Sweet Sixteens in a row could do that--it wouldn't just be a George MAson-style flash in the pan (53% wins, 6 bids, 5 NCAA wins all time), it would be the program getting over a hump. Saint Louis doesn't have the long-term credibility, but they do have a 3M market, so if they have a run of Tournament success and light up the city, that could be good enough.

Sorry but Creighton over VCU every day, any day.

One flukey NCAA tournament run does not a program make (literally ONE second weekend appearance).

Creightoin has been relevant in college bball for a long time now...along with a better arena, better academics and a better fit.

(01-23-2013 11:06 AM)aughnanure Wrote:  Sorry but Creighton over VCU every day, any day.

One flukey NCAA tournament run does not a program make (literally ONE second weekend appearance).

Creightoin has been relevant in college bball for a long time now...along with a better arena, better academics and a better fit.

A couple problems with that.

1. VCU's all-time winning percentage is Top25 among all D1 teams
2. VCU has gone to the tournament under 3 different coaches in a decade, so they aren't just a flash in the pan.
3. Creighton has never made it past the Sweet 16
4. Creighton has earned one at-large big since 1981

Creighton could jump VCU in my mind if they reached the Elite 8 or Final Four this season, but otherwise VCU is above them for me.

(01-23-2013 11:06 AM)aughnanure Wrote:  Sorry but Creighton over VCU every day, any day.

One flukey NCAA tournament run does not a program make (literally ONE second weekend appearance).

Creightoin has been relevant in college bball for a long time now...along with a better arena, better academics and a better fit.

Well, Creighton hasn't been to the Sweet Sixteen since 1974, so that's a problem.

But set aside VCU's Final Four run. Say they lose that play-in, er, First Round game.

Creighton went to the NCAA's three times before VCU joined Division I.

In the last 40 years, let's look at the each decade.
1970s. CU 3 NCAA bids, VCU 0. Advantage Creighton.
1980s, VCU 5 NCAA bids, Creighton 2. Advantage VCU.
1990s, Creighton 2 bids, VCU 1. Advantage Creighton.
2000s, Creighton 7 bids, VCU 5. Advantage Creighton--if you don't count the Final Four.

That adds up to 14 bids for Creighton, 11 for VCU. Slight edge for Creighton.

Let's keep ignoring 2011, and count up wins in the NCAA tournament.
1970s--Creighton had one win to get to the Sweet 16, and then won a consolation game. Count that as 2 wins, since it's a Sweet 16. VCU--0.
1980s--VCU reached the second round 4 times. Creighton--did not. 0.
1990s--Creighton wins 2 first round games. VCU--did not. 0.
2000s--Creighton wins 2 round-of-64 games. VCU--wins 2 Round-of-64 games.

So, overall, Creighton has 6 tournament wins since 1970, VCU has 6. Not counting the Final Four run, Creighton vs VCU is a wash.

Conference regular season titles? VCU 9, Creighton 6 in the last 40 years, plus 8 before 1945.

Both are in the top 50 for all-time winning percentage, Creighton at #50 with 59.6%, VCU at #22 with 63.4%. Call that a wash, too.

(The good news about that stat for VCU? They're right behind Indiana. The bad news? They're just ahead of UAB. For comparison, Creighton is right behind St Joes' and Green Bay. And the list only goes to #50, I don't have time to sort through .001 of a percent to figure out #51.)

I am sure our friends at VCU (and all other prospective schools) can generate a similar list but I thought I would just throw out a couple stats to show program stability at Creighton over the last couple of decades...

-CU has won 10+ home games for 17 years in a row.
-CU has won 10+ regular season conference games for 16 years in a row (Kansas is the only other school that can say that)
-CU has won 20+ games in 13 of last 14 years (10 other schools that can say this are Duke, Florida, Gonzaga, Kansas, Syracuse, Kent St, Kentucky, Texas, Utah State, and Xavier...first five did it all 14 years)
-CU has 15 postseason bids in a row (NCAA:8 NIT:5 CBI:1 CIT:1)...seven other schools can claim this: Duke, Florida, Gonzaga, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan St, and Syracuse
-CU has won a post season game 5 years in a row
-CU has finished first or second in the conference 10 of the last 15 years

Certainly the MVC has had its strong years and less strong years and that's an important factor...but Creighton also has paid the price for that every year when it comes to seeding. In the eleven tournaments that CU has been a part of since seeding began they "should" have won three games (and did win four). So while they haven't had a Sweet Sixteen or better run, they also haven't underperformed.

(01-23-2013 08:49 AM)gmubballfan Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 07:28 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  The raging Wichita State debate has actually convinced me of something.

10 teams. No Creighton, no Dayton, no Saint Louis. No candidates without unimpeachable slam-dunk credentials. No one whose resume requires an explanation. We've gone through all the arguments and all the numbers and I'm back to my mic-drop theory.

"Xavier Musketeers. 4 Sweet Sixteens in 5 years. In the Tournament 9 of the last 10 years"
"Butler Bulldogs. Back to Back Final Fours. In the Tournament 6 of the last 10 years."
"VCU Rams. 2011 Final Four. In the Tournament 5 of the last 10 years."

And then you close the door. How important are those 18 league games and maybe 15 televisable non-conference games to FOX? The St. Louis market? The Omaha market? Really? The TV sets and the money are in New York, Philly, Chicago and Washington.

Compared to the other 9 schools in your proposed 10-team league, VCU would be the nouveau-riche dot.com millionaire who annoyed everybody at the country club with his Ferrari and his wife's obnoxious fake tits throughout the 1990s. They'd be Rodney Dangerfield to the C7's Ted Knight in Caddyshack.

Until the Final Four, VCU was so lightly regarded even in Richmond that its own medical school didn't even wanted to be associated with the university's Monroe Park campus.

Now they have one of the hottest young coaches in America, a slew of bandwagon fans and an administration that's all-in on basketball as a means of wallpapering over the university's mediocre academic profile.

But what happens when Shaka inevitably moves on to take over one of the nation's true blue-blood programs? While VCU did well under Capel and Grant (1 total NCAA win), neither coach approached the level of national acclaim that Smart has. Assuming Smart's replacement will automatically keep VCU on its current trajectory is a risky play.

VCU fans desperately want to believe they belong in the company of schools like Georgetown, Xavier, Butler and Villanova. Based on recent basketball success, it would appear that they do. But in just about every other conceivable way, they'd stand out like a sore thumb in a 10-team New Big East. If the C7 presidents are looking for long-term partners, they'll live to regret ever associating with VCU.

Man, those are some sour, sour grapes.

(01-23-2013 05:00 PM)thegalen Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 08:49 AM)gmubballfan Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 07:28 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  The raging Wichita State debate has actually convinced me of something.

10 teams. No Creighton, no Dayton, no Saint Louis. No candidates without unimpeachable slam-dunk credentials. No one whose resume requires an explanation. We've gone through all the arguments and all the numbers and I'm back to my mic-drop theory.

"Xavier Musketeers. 4 Sweet Sixteens in 5 years. In the Tournament 9 of the last 10 years"
"Butler Bulldogs. Back to Back Final Fours. In the Tournament 6 of the last 10 years."
"VCU Rams. 2011 Final Four. In the Tournament 5 of the last 10 years."

And then you close the door. How important are those 18 league games and maybe 15 televisable non-conference games to FOX? The St. Louis market? The Omaha market? Really? The TV sets and the money are in New York, Philly, Chicago and Washington.

Compared to the other 9 schools in your proposed 10-team league, VCU would be the nouveau-riche dot.com millionaire who annoyed everybody at the country club with his Ferrari and his wife's obnoxious fake tits throughout the 1990s. They'd be Rodney Dangerfield to the C7's Ted Knight in Caddyshack.

Until the Final Four, VCU was so lightly regarded even in Richmond that its own medical school didn't even wanted to be associated with the university's Monroe Park campus.

Now they have one of the hottest young coaches in America, a slew of bandwagon fans and an administration that's all-in on basketball as a means of wallpapering over the university's mediocre academic profile.

But what happens when Shaka inevitably moves on to take over one of the nation's true blue-blood programs? While VCU did well under Capel and Grant (1 total NCAA win), neither coach approached the level of national acclaim that Smart has. Assuming Smart's replacement will automatically keep VCU on its current trajectory is a risky play.

VCU fans desperately want to believe they belong in the company of schools like Georgetown, Xavier, Butler and Villanova. Based on recent basketball success, it would appear that they do. But in just about every other conceivable way, they'd stand out like a sore thumb in a 10-team New Big East. If the C7 presidents are looking for long-term partners, they'll live to regret ever associating with VCU.

Man, those are some sour, sour grapes.

I guess the truth can be "sour" sometimes?

For better or worse, my alma mater's administration is financially committed to becoming an academic power player (esp. in business and IT) while expanding and remaking the university into a primarily residential campus.

While our facilities are far from terrible, sports have never been a huge priority at Mason and probably will never be.

As a hoops fan, I don't always agree with that approach. I'd probably spend the money much differently. But at least there's some nobility in knowing what you are and trying to be as successful as possible without having to whore yourself out to every new athletic conference that bats an eye your way.

We're not getting in the NBE and I frankly don't care all that much if we go to the decimated A-10. We've proven we can go to the tournament from the CAA and we're still on our way toward building a first-class university. That's nothing to be sour about.

(01-24-2013 12:15 PM)gmubballfan Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 05:00 PM)thegalen Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 08:49 AM)gmubballfan Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 07:28 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  The raging Wichita State debate has actually convinced me of something.

10 teams. No Creighton, no Dayton, no Saint Louis. No candidates without unimpeachable slam-dunk credentials. No one whose resume requires an explanation. We've gone through all the arguments and all the numbers and I'm back to my mic-drop theory.

"Xavier Musketeers. 4 Sweet Sixteens in 5 years. In the Tournament 9 of the last 10 years"
"Butler Bulldogs. Back to Back Final Fours. In the Tournament 6 of the last 10 years."
"VCU Rams. 2011 Final Four. In the Tournament 5 of the last 10 years."

And then you close the door. How important are those 18 league games and maybe 15 televisable non-conference games to FOX? The St. Louis market? The Omaha market? Really? The TV sets and the money are in New York, Philly, Chicago and Washington.

Compared to the other 9 schools in your proposed 10-team league, VCU would be the nouveau-riche dot.com millionaire who annoyed everybody at the country club with his Ferrari and his wife's obnoxious fake tits throughout the 1990s. They'd be Rodney Dangerfield to the C7's Ted Knight in Caddyshack.

Until the Final Four, VCU was so lightly regarded even in Richmond that its own medical school didn't even wanted to be associated with the university's Monroe Park campus.

Now they have one of the hottest young coaches in America, a slew of bandwagon fans and an administration that's all-in on basketball as a means of wallpapering over the university's mediocre academic profile.

But what happens when Shaka inevitably moves on to take over one of the nation's true blue-blood programs? While VCU did well under Capel and Grant (1 total NCAA win), neither coach approached the level of national acclaim that Smart has. Assuming Smart's replacement will automatically keep VCU on its current trajectory is a risky play.

VCU fans desperately want to believe they belong in the company of schools like Georgetown, Xavier, Butler and Villanova. Based on recent basketball success, it would appear that they do. But in just about every other conceivable way, they'd stand out like a sore thumb in a 10-team New Big East. If the C7 presidents are looking for long-term partners, they'll live to regret ever associating with VCU.

Man, those are some sour, sour grapes.

I guess the truth can be "sour" sometimes?

For better or worse, my alma mater's administration is financially committed to becoming an academic power player (esp. in business and IT) while expanding and remaking the university into a primarily residential campus.

While our facilities are far from terrible, sports have never been a huge priority at Mason and probably will never be.

As a hoops fan, I don't always agree with that approach. I'd probably spend the money much differently. But at least there's some nobility in knowing what you are and trying to be as successful as possible without having to whore yourself out to every new athletic conference that bats an eye your way.

We're not getting in the NBE and I frankly don't care all that much if we go to the decimated A-10. We've proven we can go to the tournament from the CAA and we're still on our way toward building a first-class university. That's nothing to be sour about.

Cool story, but this is a basketball message board.

(01-24-2013 12:19 PM)thegalen Wrote:  

(01-24-2013 12:15 PM)gmubballfan Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 05:00 PM)thegalen Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 08:49 AM)gmubballfan Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 07:28 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  The raging Wichita State debate has actually convinced me of something.

10 teams. No Creighton, no Dayton, no Saint Louis. No candidates without unimpeachable slam-dunk credentials. No one whose resume requires an explanation. We've gone through all the arguments and all the numbers and I'm back to my mic-drop theory.

"Xavier Musketeers. 4 Sweet Sixteens in 5 years. In the Tournament 9 of the last 10 years"
"Butler Bulldogs. Back to Back Final Fours. In the Tournament 6 of the last 10 years."
"VCU Rams. 2011 Final Four. In the Tournament 5 of the last 10 years."

And then you close the door. How important are those 18 league games and maybe 15 televisable non-conference games to FOX? The St. Louis market? The Omaha market? Really? The TV sets and the money are in New York, Philly, Chicago and Washington.

Compared to the other 9 schools in your proposed 10-team league, VCU would be the nouveau-riche dot.com millionaire who annoyed everybody at the country club with his Ferrari and his wife's obnoxious fake tits throughout the 1990s. They'd be Rodney Dangerfield to the C7's Ted Knight in Caddyshack.

Until the Final Four, VCU was so lightly regarded even in Richmond that its own medical school didn't even wanted to be associated with the university's Monroe Park campus.

Now they have one of the hottest young coaches in America, a slew of bandwagon fans and an administration that's all-in on basketball as a means of wallpapering over the university's mediocre academic profile.

But what happens when Shaka inevitably moves on to take over one of the nation's true blue-blood programs? While VCU did well under Capel and Grant (1 total NCAA win), neither coach approached the level of national acclaim that Smart has. Assuming Smart's replacement will automatically keep VCU on its current trajectory is a risky play.

VCU fans desperately want to believe they belong in the company of schools like Georgetown, Xavier, Butler and Villanova. Based on recent basketball success, it would appear that they do. But in just about every other conceivable way, they'd stand out like a sore thumb in a 10-team New Big East. If the C7 presidents are looking for long-term partners, they'll live to regret ever associating with VCU.

Man, those are some sour, sour grapes.

I guess the truth can be "sour" sometimes?

For better or worse, my alma mater's administration is financially committed to becoming an academic power player (esp. in business and IT) while expanding and remaking the university into a primarily residential campus.

While our facilities are far from terrible, sports have never been a huge priority at Mason and probably will never be.

As a hoops fan, I don't always agree with that approach. I'd probably spend the money much differently. But at least there's some nobility in knowing what you are and trying to be as successful as possible without having to whore yourself out to every new athletic conference that bats an eye your way.

We're not getting in the NBE and I frankly don't care all that much if we go to the decimated A-10. We've proven we can go to the tournament from the CAA and we're still on our way toward building a first-class university. That's nothing to be sour about.

Cool story, but this is a basketball message board.

Why, aren't you a clever little boy?

(01-24-2013 12:15 PM)gmubballfan Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 05:00 PM)thegalen Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 08:49 AM)gmubballfan Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 07:28 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  The raging Wichita State debate has actually convinced me of something.

10 teams. No Creighton, no Dayton, no Saint Louis. No candidates without unimpeachable slam-dunk credentials. No one whose resume requires an explanation. We've gone through all the arguments and all the numbers and I'm back to my mic-drop theory.

"Xavier Musketeers. 4 Sweet Sixteens in 5 years. In the Tournament 9 of the last 10 years"
"Butler Bulldogs. Back to Back Final Fours. In the Tournament 6 of the last 10 years."
"VCU Rams. 2011 Final Four. In the Tournament 5 of the last 10 years."

And then you close the door. How important are those 18 league games and maybe 15 televisable non-conference games to FOX? The St. Louis market? The Omaha market? Really? The TV sets and the money are in New York, Philly, Chicago and Washington.

Compared to the other 9 schools in your proposed 10-team league, VCU would be the nouveau-riche dot.com millionaire who annoyed everybody at the country club with his Ferrari and his wife's obnoxious fake tits throughout the 1990s. They'd be Rodney Dangerfield to the C7's Ted Knight in Caddyshack.

Until the Final Four, VCU was so lightly regarded even in Richmond that its own medical school didn't even wanted to be associated with the university's Monroe Park campus.

Now they have one of the hottest young coaches in America, a slew of bandwagon fans and an administration that's all-in on basketball as a means of wallpapering over the university's mediocre academic profile.

But what happens when Shaka inevitably moves on to take over one of the nation's true blue-blood programs? While VCU did well under Capel and Grant (1 total NCAA win), neither coach approached the level of national acclaim that Smart has. Assuming Smart's replacement will automatically keep VCU on its current trajectory is a risky play.

VCU fans desperately want to believe they belong in the company of schools like Georgetown, Xavier, Butler and Villanova. Based on recent basketball success, it would appear that they do. But in just about every other conceivable way, they'd stand out like a sore thumb in a 10-team New Big East. If the C7 presidents are looking for long-term partners, they'll live to regret ever associating with VCU.

Man, those are some sour, sour grapes.

I guess the truth can be "sour" sometimes?

For better or worse, my alma mater's administration is financially committed to becoming an academic power player (esp. in business and IT) while expanding and remaking the university into a primarily residential campus.

While our facilities are far from terrible, sports have never been a huge priority at Mason and probably will never be.

As a hoops fan, I don't always agree with that approach. I'd probably spend the money much differently. But at least there's some nobility in knowing what you are and trying to be as successful as possible without having to whore yourself out to every new athletic conference that bats an eye your way.

We're not getting in the NBE and I frankly don't care all that much if we go to the decimated A-10. We've proven we can go to the tournament from the CAA and we're still on our way toward building a first-class university. That's nothing to be sour about.

Your law school is awesome, and the "moneyball" approach to raising your profile--find a department where you can zig where everybody else is zagging and work that niche--is a smart one.

But not relevant here.

MA History, George MAson 1998

(01-24-2013 12:52 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-24-2013 12:15 PM)gmubballfan Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 05:00 PM)thegalen Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 08:49 AM)gmubballfan Wrote:  

(01-23-2013 07:28 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  The raging Wichita State debate has actually convinced me of something.

10 teams. No Creighton, no Dayton, no Saint Louis. No candidates without unimpeachable slam-dunk credentials. No one whose resume requires an explanation. We've gone through all the arguments and all the numbers and I'm back to my mic-drop theory.

"Xavier Musketeers. 4 Sweet Sixteens in 5 years. In the Tournament 9 of the last 10 years"
"Butler Bulldogs. Back to Back Final Fours. In the Tournament 6 of the last 10 years."
"VCU Rams. 2011 Final Four. In the Tournament 5 of the last 10 years."

And then you close the door. How important are those 18 league games and maybe 15 televisable non-conference games to FOX? The St. Louis market? The Omaha market? Really? The TV sets and the money are in New York, Philly, Chicago and Washington.

Compared to the other 9 schools in your proposed 10-team league, VCU would be the nouveau-riche dot.com millionaire who annoyed everybody at the country club with his Ferrari and his wife's obnoxious fake tits throughout the 1990s. They'd be Rodney Dangerfield to the C7's Ted Knight in Caddyshack.

Until the Final Four, VCU was so lightly regarded even in Richmond that its own medical school didn't even wanted to be associated with the university's Monroe Park campus.

Now they have one of the hottest young coaches in America, a slew of bandwagon fans and an administration that's all-in on basketball as a means of wallpapering over the university's mediocre academic profile.

But what happens when Shaka inevitably moves on to take over one of the nation's true blue-blood programs? While VCU did well under Capel and Grant (1 total NCAA win), neither coach approached the level of national acclaim that Smart has. Assuming Smart's replacement will automatically keep VCU on its current trajectory is a risky play.

VCU fans desperately want to believe they belong in the company of schools like Georgetown, Xavier, Butler and Villanova. Based on recent basketball success, it would appear that they do. But in just about every other conceivable way, they'd stand out like a sore thumb in a 10-team New Big East. If the C7 presidents are looking for long-term partners, they'll live to regret ever associating with VCU.

Man, those are some sour, sour grapes.

I guess the truth can be "sour" sometimes?

For better or worse, my alma mater's administration is financially committed to becoming an academic power player (esp. in business and IT) while expanding and remaking the university into a primarily residential campus.

While our facilities are far from terrible, sports have never been a huge priority at Mason and probably will never be.

As a hoops fan, I don't always agree with that approach. I'd probably spend the money much differently. But at least there's some nobility in knowing what you are and trying to be as successful as possible without having to whore yourself out to every new athletic conference that bats an eye your way.

We're not getting in the NBE and I frankly don't care all that much if we go to the decimated A-10. We've proven we can go to the tournament from the CAA and we're still on our way toward building a first-class university. That's nothing to be sour about.

Your law school is awesome, and the "moneyball" approach to raising your profile--find a department where you can zig where everybody else is zagging and work that niche--is a smart one.

But not relevant here.

MA History, George MAson 1998

Apologize for the threadjack, I was just trying to clear up the VCU fan's misguided characterization of my post as "sour grapes."

Back to your regularly scheduled programming, already in progress...

I think one thing- someone posted that VCU would stick out in a 10 team Big East. I don't think there's much of a chance that there will be only a 10 team big east. I think TV will dictate that it's 12 teams just for volume purposes.

10 team playing round robin- 90 games + 100 OOC home games=190
12 team playing 16 games- 96 games + 120 OOC home games=216
12 teams playing 18 games- 108 games + 120 OOC home games=228

having nearly 40 more games available for broadcast(with 18 being conference games)- would be huge.