(11-01-2012 08:24 PM)KnightChris Wrote:  

(11-01-2012 08:14 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  No, the NIT used to be considered the national title and we won in 1943, 1944 and 1959.

This is not true. While the NIT was considered a considerably more prestigious tournament in that era than it is now, it was not considered a substitute for an actual national championship tournament. The generally accepted determinant of National Championships in that era (and earlier) is the Helms Foundation.

Note that that the NIT started in 1938. What is now known as the National Championship tournament began in 1939. Only once did the Helms Foundation select the NIT champ over the NCAA Champ (1939), although they did select neither three times.

St. John's one and only legitimate claim to a National Championship was in 1911. Hope that clears up your confusion!

Best,
Chris

I was late on my earlier post but Not true man...teams would forego the NCAA at times for the NIT...MSG was where champs were crowned.

(11-01-2012 08:36 PM)KnightChris Wrote:  

(11-01-2012 08:28 PM)TheRock Wrote:  I was late on my earlier post but Not true man...teams would forego the NCAA at times for the NIT...MSG was where champs were crowned.

Yes, some would, which is why we go by the Helms Foundation that looked at the bodies of work by teams in both tourneys. For example, in 1959 (a year SJU won the NIT), these were the Final Fours:

NIT: Bradley, NYU, Providence, St. John's
NCAA: West Virginia, Cal, Louisville, Cincinnati

SJU won the NIT, Cal won the NCAA. Helms decided that Cal was the better team. In 1939, Helms thought the NIT winner (LIU-Brooklyn) was the better team, so they're considered the national champion.

Agreed but my main point is agreeing on a champ wasn't so clear cut even though the HAF used to name champs. There were many agendas at the time between different regions of the country i.e. North eastern schools promoted playing in MSG as the biggest game. It reminds me of the AP & coaches polls today. It wasn't until the 60's that it became clear cut. So it's not fair to say SJU's NIT were not considered NCs.

Did anyone else notice how insanely off topic we are right now?

(11-01-2012 09:47 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Did anyone else notice how insanely off topic we are right now?

This thread has officially

13 days.

They said an announcement on the divisional alignment would be made in the middle of November. By my count, that's just ...

11 days away!

Why are we bumping this thread which is about basketball for an announcement that only concerns Football?

Go Cats!!!!!!!!!!

Good block on Michael Wilson at 3:05. He was one of the best leapers of all time.

I'd take SK over Siva....when all the smoke clears this year most of you will too

(11-05-2012 07:57 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I'd take SK over Siva....when all the smoke clears this year most of you will too

It took me a moment to figure out SK = Sean Kilpatrick but once I did I had to agree...and that's not a diss to Siva either.

Yahoo Sports:

Patience has paid off for Cincinnati’s Sean Kilpatrick

"If Kilpatrick is Cincinnati's unquestioned leader, he fits the mold of some of the Bearcats' past greats under Bob Huggins. Like Nick Van Exel or Steve Logan, he wasn't a celebrated addition when he signed or a finished product when he got to campus, yet through hard work and discipline he has built himself into one of the nation's top guards."