It seems to me the only current BCS Bowl Tie-In that is safe is the Rose Bowl...the Fiesta Bowl, Sugar Bowl and especially the Orange Bowl are going to be shopping around for better tie-ins. This is from the article:

With the addition of the Champions Bowl announced 10 days ago involving the SEC and Big 12, it is assumed that the Sugar would a) remain linked to the SEC and b) be involved in the four-team championship rotation. Officials said the site of the Champions Bowl, at least initially, would be bid out. The Sugar Bowl and Cowboys Stadium remain early favorites.

Other major bowls don't have as much of a conflict with conference affiliations and possible “home” playoff games. The Fiesta Bowl has hosted the Big 12 champion but that partnership supposedly will end in 2014 when the Champions Bowl begins. The Orange Bowl has struggled attendance-wise matching the ACC champion against an at-large opponent. The Big East champion has been guaranteed a berth at-large in the BCS era. The Rose Bowl is trying to keep the Pac-12-Big Ten matchup as often as possible in the new playoff era.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...gher-seeds

Interesting to see what happens to the Fiesta and Orange Bowls, as well as Jerry World and the Sugar, if one or both don't get the SEC-B12 matchup.

I think the BE, and maybe the ACC, are going to be without a major bowl tie-in, so what happens if their champs wind up in the Top 2? (I know, I know, lol...).

But IF they do, and are the higher seed, would they play a semi in some non-major bowl? And what happens if ND is in the Top 2? Where do they play? Just wonderin'...I suppose most folks think those are laughable suggestions, so they aren't worried about it...

I had posted this in the link about the ACC and Big East champ, but I'll repost it here...

If this is true - that the semifinal playoff games will be hosted by the top 2 seeds, it really would make the most sense for the Orange Bowl to go after the ACC and Big East champs, which theoretically gives them two shots at occasionally hosting a national semifinal.

USFFan

(05-28-2012 12:10 PM)usffan Wrote:  I had posted this in the link about the ACC and Big East champ, but I'll repost it here...

If this is true - that the semifinal playoff games will be hosted by the top 2 seeds, it really would make the most sense for the Orange Bowl to go after the ACC and Big East champs, which theoretically gives them two shots at occasionally hosting a national semifinal.

USFFan

True, but it's still a long shot, and would tie them into a mediocre game most years, that they could probably beat by taking two at large teams, or trying to tie up the #2 from some of the other 4 conferences.

(05-28-2012 12:10 PM)usffan Wrote:  I had posted this in the link about the ACC and Big East champ, but I'll repost it here...

If this is true - that the semifinal playoff games will be hosted by the top 2 seeds, it really would make the most sense for the Orange Bowl to go after the ACC and Big East champs, which theoretically gives them two shots at occasionally hosting a national semifinal.

USFFan

I saw that, I think we posted both @ basically the same time.

The Champions Bowl and the Rose Bowl are going to have anchors for the B1G, Pac 12, SEC & Big XII. The Fiesta Bowl and Orange Bowl are going to have to do something to try to lock in a slim chance to host one of the Semis. That is where the ACC/ND & BIG EAST "might" have a shot...time will tell.

I wonder if a deal could be worked with both the Fiesta and Orange? If a BE East team wins, they go to the Orange, if a West team wins, they go to the Fiesta.

I'm sure it's pie in the sky but it would sure be sweet.

(05-28-2012 12:10 PM)usffan Wrote:  I had posted this in the link about the ACC and Big East champ, but I'll repost it here...

If this is true - that the semifinal playoff games will be hosted by the top 2 seeds, it really would make the most sense for the Orange Bowl to go after the ACC and Big East champs, which theoretically gives them two shots at occasionally hosting a national semifinal.

Given that it has been more than 10 years since any team currently in the ACC made the top 2, and since no team currently in the Big East ever has, i doubt that the Orange would be willing to offer a guaranteed tie-in on either basis.

Particularly since the common perception has been that Orange Bowl's decline has been caused by too many matchups between .... the ACC and Big East.

(05-28-2012 04:39 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-28-2012 12:10 PM)usffan Wrote:  I had posted this in the link about the ACC and Big East champ, but I'll repost it here...

If this is true - that the semifinal playoff games will be hosted by the top 2 seeds, it really would make the most sense for the Orange Bowl to go after the ACC and Big East champs, which theoretically gives them two shots at occasionally hosting a national semifinal.

Given that it has been more than 10 years since any team currently in the ACC made the top 2, and since no team currently in the Big East ever has, i doubt that the Orange would be willing to offer a guaranteed tie-in on either basis.

Particularly since the common perception has been that Orange Bowl's decline has been caused by too many matchups between .... the ACC and Big East.

Steve that is just not an accurate statement...since the ACC took over the tie-in the BIG EAST has played in 3 Orange Bowls, the B1G in 2 and 1 each by the Pac 12 & Big XII...it been fairly spread out between the other BCS AQ Leagues-(except no SEC schools). So in reality the BIG EAST has sent exactly 1 more school to the Orange Bowl then the B1G.

Also, the last time that game had over 70K in attendence was ironically Louisville-Wake Forest...neither the matchup with Virginia Tech-Cincinnati, Kansas-Virginia Tech, Iowa-Georgia Tech, Stanford-Virginia Tech or WVU-Clemson hit the 70K in attendence mark.

You also forget you have the Fiesta Bowl now going to be out on a limb so to speak as well. IF the Big XII/SEC decide completely to just form a "brand new Bowl game" which is highly possible then you very well could have 3 Big Time Bowls without any shot @ a SemiFinal...it going to be very interesting to see what happens.

(05-28-2012 04:56 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(05-28-2012 04:39 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-28-2012 12:10 PM)usffan Wrote:  I had posted this in the link about the ACC and Big East champ, but I'll repost it here...

If this is true - that the semifinal playoff games will be hosted by the top 2 seeds, it really would make the most sense for the Orange Bowl to go after the ACC and Big East champs, which theoretically gives them two shots at occasionally hosting a national semifinal.

Given that it has been more than 10 years since any team currently in the ACC made the top 2, and since no team currently in the Big East ever has, i doubt that the Orange would be willing to offer a guaranteed tie-in on either basis.

Particularly since the common perception has been that Orange Bowl's decline has been caused by too many matchups between .... the ACC and Big East.

Steve that is just not an accurate statement...since the ACC took over the tie-in the BIG EAST has played in 3 Orange Bowls, the B1G in 2 and 1 each by the Pac 12 & Big XII...it been fairly spread out between the other BCS AQ Leagues-(except no SEC schools). So in reality the BIG EAST has sent exactly 1 more school to the Orange Bowl then the B1G.

Also, the last time that game had over 70K in attendence was ironically Louisville-Wake Forest...neither the matchup with Virginia Tech-Cincinnati, Kansas-Virginia Tech, Iowa-Georgia Tech, Stanford-Virginia Tech or WVU-Clemson hit the 70K in attendence mark.

You also forget you have the Fiesta Bowl now going to be out on a limb so to speak as well. IF the Big XII/SEC decide completely to just form a "brand new Bowl game" which is highly possible then you very well could have 3 Big Time Bowls without any shot @ a SemiFinal...it going to be very interesting to see what happens.

Maize - don't waste your time discussing real facts with Quo. It is all BE's fault. We already know that so you don't need to repeat it 1000 times.

So you have the top two bowls which will undoubtedly be slotted on New Year's day at 5:00 and 8:30 ET respectively. Note that there is still a 1:00 ET slot to accomodate a non-"Big 4" conference winner ranked in the top 2, and the tie in Bowl could be flexed into that time slot. Makes sense because you want both games played on that day. Not sure if the Rose would slide to a noon start if they do not place a team in the top two.

Bowl Tie-ins would be as follows:

Fiesta:
1) Big East West Champ
2) MWC Champ

Orange:
1) ACC Champ
2) Big East East Champ
3) Conf USA Champ

Note that those bowls would only be required to select from that pool if those conferences finish in the top two.

If teams from the same conference pairs (or same conference) finish 1-2 respectively, the Sugar and the Fiesta would take the SEC/Big 12 runner up respectively. The Big 10/Pac 12 would also need secondary bowls as needed. Orange could accomodate a Big 10 #2 finisher. Another west coast bowl would be needed to accomodate a PAC 12 #2, assuming the Big 10 finishes in the top slot.

Notre Dame in the top two, I would say the Orange and the Fiesta would get them on a rotating basis. Something would have to be worked out. Or ND would have to form it's own bowl game.

Just sign and agreement with the ACC to play one anothers champ and sell it just like the Champions Bowl. It wont take a new ACC-Big East game long to begin to create a tradition. I could care less what bowl it ends up being played at, as long as its played on New Years.

All these bowls are going to become less important with a playoff system. The only bowls outside of the playoff bowls that will have any lasting prestige long term are the ones that involve tradition and match conference champions. The rest will just be exhibition games and will have little context or drama outside of the playoffs.

(05-28-2012 05:46 PM)SF Husky Wrote:  

(05-28-2012 04:56 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(05-28-2012 04:39 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-28-2012 12:10 PM)usffan Wrote:  I had posted this in the link about the ACC and Big East champ, but I'll repost it here...

If this is true - that the semifinal playoff games will be hosted by the top 2 seeds, it really would make the most sense for the Orange Bowl to go after the ACC and Big East champs, which theoretically gives them two shots at occasionally hosting a national semifinal.

Given that it has been more than 10 years since any team currently in the ACC made the top 2, and since no team currently in the Big East ever has, i doubt that the Orange would be willing to offer a guaranteed tie-in on either basis.

Particularly since the common perception has been that Orange Bowl's decline has been caused by too many matchups between .... the ACC and Big East.

Steve that is just not an accurate statement...since the ACC took over the tie-in the BIG EAST has played in 3 Orange Bowls, the B1G in 2 and 1 each by the Pac 12 & Big XII...it been fairly spread out between the other BCS AQ Leagues-(except no SEC schools). So in reality the BIG EAST has sent exactly 1 more school to the Orange Bowl then the B1G.

Also, the last time that game had over 70K in attendence was ironically Louisville-Wake Forest...neither the matchup with Virginia Tech-Cincinnati, Kansas-Virginia Tech, Iowa-Georgia Tech, Stanford-Virginia Tech or WVU-Clemson hit the 70K in attendence mark.

You also forget you have the Fiesta Bowl now going to be out on a limb so to speak as well. IF the Big XII/SEC decide completely to just form a "brand new Bowl game" which is highly possible then you very well could have 3 Big Time Bowls without any shot @ a SemiFinal...it going to be very interesting to see what happens.

Maize - don't waste your time discussing real facts with Quo. It is all BE's fault. We already know that so you don't need to repeat it 1000 times.

I know but it was more for the others...the ACC took over the Orange Bowl Tie-In in 2005-(that year it also hosted the BCS Title Game between Oklahoma-USC)...since then the only constant conference in that Bowl is the ACC, not the BIG EAST, B1G, Big XII or even Pac 12.

The Orange Bowl problems with attendence and TV ratings has really nothing to do with the BIG EAST but the Conference whose HQ is in Greensboro, NC not Providence, RI.

(05-28-2012 06:04 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  So you have the top two bowls which will undoubtedly be slotted on New Year's day at 5:00 and 8:30 ET respectively. Note that there is still a 1:00 ET slot to accomodate a non-"Big 4" conference winner ranked in the top 2, and the tie in Bowl could be flexed into that time slot. Makes sense because you want both games played on that day. Not sure if the Rose would slide to a noon start if they do not place a team in the top two.

Bowl Tie-ins would be as follows:

Fiesta:
1) Big East West Champ
2) MWC Champ

Orange:
1) ACC Champ
2) Big East East Champ
3) Conf USA Champ

Note that those bowls would only be required to select from that pool if those conferences finish in the top two.

If teams from the same conference pairs (or same conference) finish 1-2 respectively, the Sugar and the Fiesta would take the SEC/Big 12 runner up respectively. The Big 10/Pac 12 would also need secondary bowls as needed. Orange could accomodate a Big 10 #2 finisher. Another west coast bowl would be needed to accomodate a PAC 12 #2, assuming the Big 10 finishes in the top slot.

Notre Dame in the top two, I would say the Orange and the Fiesta would get them on a rotating basis. Something would have to be worked out. Or ND would have to form it's own bowl game.

This is pretty similar to how I think is likely. I think it will basically work like this:

1. There are 5-6 BCS bowls. Every conference/independent signs an agreement for a bowl to host their team if they are ranked #1 or #2 and a secondary agreement (in case they are #2 and the #1 team has the same bowl). This agreement will outrank any other agreements the bowl currently has.
2. The bowls can also sign agreements for years when they are not playoff bowls. They may or may not be the same as the conferences they have agreements for with the playoff (For example: The SEC could sign on with the Sugar Bowl for when its in the playoff, but the SEC and Big 12 could sign with the Cotton Bowl to be their #1 bowl outside the playoff).
3. Going along with earlier reports, the bowls would all be played in a 3 day time line (maybe 4 with a Sunday involved) and the championship about a week later.

I could see the playoff bowls ending many different ways, but here is one possibility

Rose Bowl: Big Ten, PAC-12
Sugar Bowl: SEC, Conference USA
Orange Bowl: ACC, Big East, Notre Dame, Army, MAC
Fiesta Bowl: Big 12, WAC (if it exists), Mountain West, BYU

The Cotton Bowl could stay outside the rotation, but always host the highest Big 12 and SEC teams not in the playoff.

(05-28-2012 04:56 PM)Maize Wrote:  Steve that is just not an accurate statement...since the ACC took over the tie-in the BIG EAST has played in 3 Orange Bowls, the B1G in 2 and 1 each by the Pac 12 & Big XII...it been fairly spread out between the other BCS AQ Leagues-(except no SEC schools). So in reality the BIG EAST has sent exactly 1 more school to the Orange Bowl then the B1G.

Maize, first of all, i said there was a perception out there that Big East participation has caused the OB to decline in status/importance. I did not say that perception was based on real facts, but i do think the perception is real. Ask most in the college football community why the OB has declined, and they will say "tie-in with sucky ACC, and too many times getting stuck with Big East".

But what is the reality? Is the perception justified?

Since 2005 season (year after USC-Oklahoma national title game), average Nielsen ratings of 4 Orange Bowl games that did not involve Big East: 8.375

Three games involving Big East teams: 5.63

That doesn't look good for us.

(05-28-2012 07:01 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-28-2012 04:56 PM)Maize Wrote:  Steve that is just not an accurate statement...since the ACC took over the tie-in the BIG EAST has played in 3 Orange Bowls, the B1G in 2 and 1 each by the Pac 12 & Big XII...it been fairly spread out between the other BCS AQ Leagues-(except no SEC schools). So in reality the BIG EAST has sent exactly 1 more school to the Orange Bowl then the B1G.

Maize, first of all, i said there was a perception out there that Big East participation has caused the OB to decline in status/importance. I did not say that perception was based on real facts, but i do think the perception is real. Ask most in the college football community why the OB has declined, and they will say "tie-in with sucky ACC, and too many times getting stuck with Big East".

But what is the reality? Is the perception justified?

Since 2005 season (year after USC-Oklahoma national title game), average Nielsen ratings of 4 Orange Bowl games that did not involve Big East: 8.375

Three games involving Big East teams: 5.63

That doesn't look good for us.

1. Not our fault the "General Public" is somewhat "stupid" by listening to the ESPN Talking Heads. Fact is since 2005 the BIG EAST Champ has played in 3 Orange Bowls, 2 Fiesta Bowls and 1 Sugar Bowl.

2. And even if you look "closer" @ the TV Numbers it is somewhat inflated-(for games not involving the BIG EAST) due to the 2006 Triple OT Game between FSU-Penn State-(The Grandpa/Winningnest Coaches) Bowl.

From 2007 onward the TV Numbers have been pretty much the same no matter who played the ACC Champ and it been on a consistant downward trend and only one constant...the ACC.

(05-28-2012 07:15 PM)Maize Wrote:  

(05-28-2012 07:01 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-28-2012 04:56 PM)Maize Wrote:  Steve that is just not an accurate statement...since the ACC took over the tie-in the BIG EAST has played in 3 Orange Bowls, the B1G in 2 and 1 each by the Pac 12 & Big XII...it been fairly spread out between the other BCS AQ Leagues-(except no SEC schools). So in reality the BIG EAST has sent exactly 1 more school to the Orange Bowl then the B1G.

Maize, first of all, i said there was a perception out there that Big East participation has caused the OB to decline in status/importance. I did not say that perception was based on real facts, but i do think the perception is real. Ask most in the college football community why the OB has declined, and they will say "tie-in with sucky ACC, and too many times getting stuck with Big East".

But what is the reality? Is the perception justified?

Since 2005 season (year after USC-Oklahoma national title game), average Nielsen ratings of 4 Orange Bowl games that did not involve Big East: 8.375

Three games involving Big East teams: 5.63

That doesn't look good for us.

1. Not our fault the "General Public" is somewhat "stupid" by listening to the ESPN Talking Heads. Fact is since 2005 the BIG EAST Champ has played in 3 Orange Bowls, 2 Fiesta Bowls and 1 Sugar Bowl.

2. And even if you look "closer" @ the TV Numbers it is somewhat inflated-(for games not involving the BIG EAST) due to the 2006 Triple OT Game between FSU-Penn State-(The Grandpa/Winningnest Coaches) Bowl.

From 2007 onward the TV Numbers have been pretty much the same no matter who played the ACC Champ.

The ratings are what they are ... And even gerrymandering them by excluding FSU-PSU (we could gerrymander the other way by eliminating best-rated Big East game too), it's still 7.1 for three games without Big East, 5.6 for 3 games with Big East.

Still doesn't look good for us. And as for public perception, it isn't THAT far off. We HAVE played in as many OB games the past 6 years as Fiestas and Sugars combined.

That all well and good but don't lay the blame of the Orange Bowl decline @ the hands of the BIG EAST.

You can also look @ it like this, we played in 1 few Fiesta Bowl & Sugar Bowls then Orange Bowls...3 to 2, I also need to correct something the BIG EAST also went to the Sugar Bowl twice...WVU in the 2005/2006-(Sugar Bowl) and Cincinnati 2009/2010-(Sugar Bowl).

Fact is this, since 2005 both attendence & TV Rating have been down for that Bowl game. Only one constant has been involved and that is the ACC. Now when Cincinnati played in the Sugar Bowl it was one of the highest rated Bowl games that year but you gave them no credit. When Virginia Tech went to the Sugar Bowl this ygear the usual happened....both attendence & TV Rating went into the toilet...all I gotta say is they ain't a BIG EAST school.

I've said several times that the Big East has reason to optimistic for its new TV contract, but the bowl situation likely isn't going to look very good. We can throw all the actual facts about the ACC's performance out there, but note that last year that the BCS chose a terrible ACC championship game loser (VT) over #7 Boise State and #8 Kansas State. While you might say that Boise was a victim of biases against non-AQ teams, KSU is a member of the almighty supposedly now dominant Big 12. People are going waaaaaay overboard in thinking that the ACC can't get bowl bids. Even if FSU and Clemson end up leaving for the Big 12, the remaining ACC schools can get an Orange Bowl slot. I don't think many people realize that ACC #2 gets paid more by the Chick-Fil-A than Big 12 #2 from the almighty "I can buy everything" Jerry Jones and the Cotton Bowl.

Expect the ACC to get the Orange Bowl versus SEC #2, Big Ten #2 or Notre Dame. It could also be an at-large spot. For instance, there could be the following lineup:

Rose: Big Ten vs. Pac-12
Sugar: SEC vs. Big 12
Orange: ACC vs. at-large
Fiesta: at-large vs. at-large

Here, the Fiesta becomes the semifinal site in the event that a school outside of the 5 power conferences is a top 2 team. Otherwise, the Fiesta can just pick whichever 2 schools outside of the semifinalists that it wants. 1 or 2 other bowls (e.g. Cotton, Capital One) could end up in this system, too.

To be clear, I'm not talking about the ACC actually *deserving* any top bowl spot. I'm just looking at how bowls have acted and what payouts are out there and it indicates that the ACC is still getting a high level bowl tie-in.

Another reason why there will likely be at-large slots (similar to how the BCS works now): the "Big Four" need somewhere to go if they get kicked out of their primary bowl when they aren't semifinalists. In 2010, for instance, neither the Big Ten nor Big 12 champs would have been in the semifinals but the Pac-12 and SEC champs were (meaning the semifinals would have been in the Rose and Sugar/Champions). We can't really expect the Big Ten and Big 12 agree to have their champs kicking around in second tier bowls, right? I think there's going to be flexibility for the top tier bowls outside of the Rose and Sugar/Champions to be homes for power conference champs that are kicked out of their normal tie-ins while also being to take anyone else that they want (e.g. The 3rd place SEC team).

(05-28-2012 08:54 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I've said several times that the Big East has reason to optimistic for its new TV contract, but the bowl situation likely isn't going to look very good. We can throw all the actual facts about the ACC's performance out there, but note that last year that the BCS chose a terrible ACC championship game loser (VT) over #7 Boise State and #8 Kansas State. While you might say that Boise was a victim of biases against non-AQ teams, KSU is a member of the almighty supposedly now dominant Big 12. People are going waaaaaay overboard in thinking that the ACC can't get bowl bids. Even if FSU and Clemson end up leaving for the Big 12, the remaining ACC schools can get an Orange Bowl slot. I don't think many people realize that ACC #2 gets paid more by the Chick-Fil-A than Big 12 #2 from the almighty "I can buy everything" Jerry Jones and the Cotton Bowl.

Expect the ACC to get the Orange Bowl versus SEC #2, Big Ten #2 or Notre Dame. It could also be an at-large spot. For instance, there could be the following lineup:

Rose: Big Ten vs. Pac-12
Sugar: SEC vs. Big 12
Orange: ACC vs. at-large
Fiesta: at-large vs. at-large

Here, the Fiesta becomes the semifinal site in the event that a school outside of the 5 power conferences is a top 2 team. Otherwise, the Fiesta can just pick whichever 2 schools outside of the semifinalists that it wants. 1 or 2 other bowls (e.g. Cotton, Capital One) could end up in this system, too.

To be clear, I'm not talking about the ACC actually *deserving* any top bowl spot. I'm just looking at how bowls have acted and what payouts are out there and it indicates that the ACC is still getting a high level bowl tie-in.

Now the question I have is this, if you have a Non "Big Four" school ranked 1st or 2nd which Bowl get to be that host since neither the Orange Bowl or Fiesta Bowl would be the anchor.

Now I do agree that the Orange/Fiesta Bowls could very well become @ Large vs. @ Large. No Tie-Ins just take the 2 highest ranked schools @ their choosing.