(04-12-2012 06:04 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  The problem was that the Big East was not going to be able to add anyone for which ESPN would renegotiate the tv contract and give a big increase. So basically the league had to wait until present contract ran out and could then go out into market and hope tht competitors would drive up the value. WV AD is full of crap because he knows full well that the Eers and the other two would have taken the offers they took even if the league had expanded to 12. He is going to keep harping about Big12 expanding because he doesn't want WV being on an island in the league. But reality is that Big12 could add UL,BYU anytime they wanted to and Texas is not going to just add those two and go o a championship game that they have stated not to want just to please WV and add a couple of million in tv contracts. It has to be a major increase for UT to agree to that move

Well said.

(04-12-2012 06:04 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  The problem was that the Big East was not going to be able to add anyone for which ESPN would renegotiate the tv contract and give a big increase. So basically the league had to wait until present contract ran out and could then go out into market and hope tht competitors would drive up the value. WV AD is full of crap because he knows full well that the Eers and the other two would have taken the offers they took even if the league had expanded to 12. He is going to keep harping about Big12 expanding because he doesn't want WV being on an island in the league. But reality is that Big12 could add UL,BYU anytime they wanted to and Texas is not going to just add those two and go o a championship game that they have stated not to want just to please WV and add a couple of million in tv contracts. It has to be a major increase for UT to agree to that move

Sigh...
UT has one vote. They have been outvoted in the past. However it does have to be a major increase for a 75% vote to be reached.

(04-12-2012 09:22 PM)Sammy11 Wrote:  

(04-12-2012 06:04 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  The problem was that the Big East was not going to be able to add anyone for which ESPN would renegotiate the tv contract and give a big increase. So basically the league had to wait until present contract ran out and could then go out into market and hope tht competitors would drive up the value. WV AD is full of crap because he knows full well that the Eers and the other two would have taken the offers they took even if the league had expanded to 12. He is going to keep harping about Big12 expanding because he doesn't want WV being on an island in the league. But reality is that Big12 could add UL,BYU anytime they wanted to and Texas is not going to just add those two and go o a championship game that they have stated not to want just to please WV and add a couple of million in tv contracts. It has to be a major increase for UT to agree to that move

Sigh...
UT has one vote. They have been outvoted in the past. However it does have to be a major increase for a 75% vote to be reached.

Yes Ut only has one vote. But if you really believe that the rest of the Big12 would go against UT on something it feels strongly against then you are in big denial. An unhappy Texas is not good for Big12 stability and the rest of that league knows full well that without Texas they would not have the TV contract that they have now. Texas knows that and uses that power well. Texas even hinting of heading to Pac12 or Indy would make the other 9 shake in their boots

(04-12-2012 08:16 PM)Wooglin157 Wrote:  When the Big XII was teetering last year with Texas and others looking for a way out, weren't there pretty wide spread overtures that teams like K-State, KU, etc. were talking with or at least somewhat exploring the Big East?

Doesn't that show that at least at the time, the Big East was seen as a destination if those teams were stuck in a depleted Big XII?

That was two years ago, one year later BE lost WVU, Pitt, and Syracuse so BE got the short end of the stick.

http://college-football.blogs.cbssports....8/26163006

A true western division for all sports with Kansas, K-State, TCU, and Iowa State at one time would have been not so far off. Now it's just a pipe dream.

(04-12-2012 09:33 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  

(04-12-2012 09:22 PM)Sammy11 Wrote:  

(04-12-2012 06:04 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  The problem was that the Big East was not going to be able to add anyone for which ESPN would renegotiate the tv contract and give a big increase. So basically the league had to wait until present contract ran out and could then go out into market and hope tht competitors would drive up the value. WV AD is full of crap because he knows full well that the Eers and the other two would have taken the offers they took even if the league had expanded to 12. He is going to keep harping about Big12 expanding because he doesn't want WV being on an island in the league. But reality is that Big12 could add UL,BYU anytime they wanted to and Texas is not going to just add those two and go o a championship game that they have stated not to want just to please WV and add a couple of million in tv contracts. It has to be a major increase for UT to agree to that move

Sigh...
UT has one vote. They have been outvoted in the past. However it does have to be a major increase for a 75% vote to be reached.

Yes Ut only has one vote. But if you really believe that the rest of the Big12 would go against UT on something it feels strongly against then you are in big denial. An unhappy Texas is not good for Big12 stability and the rest of that league knows full well that without Texas they would not have the TV contract that they have now. Texas knows that and uses that power well. Texas even hinting of heading to Pac12 or Indy would make the other 9 shake in their boots

We all have gone against them at times. I can think of two or three recent votes.

(04-12-2012 02:58 PM)The Brown Bull Wrote:  

(04-12-2012 01:31 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(04-12-2012 12:13 PM)wvucrazed Wrote:  

(04-12-2012 12:07 PM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  One aspect of what you say is definitely correct - that the schools wouldn't have this scheduling mess that it has now. And it only took the immediate departure of WVU to cause that.

WVU did what they had to do. No need to re-argue that yet again. But had the league been proactive, and if they hadn't operated at the bare minimum # of schools for years, then WVU's immediate departure wouldn't have lead to such scheduling and logistical problems for the BE.

Had the conference been proactive from the start, The BEast would still exist in it's original form. But the conference started out thinking small, and so they've remained...

Bit I agree with you however....hindsight is 20/20. You are going Waaay back (80's).....and the BE was clearly a BB conference that wanted no part of football. They really had no way of knowing what football would evolve into.

WVUcrazed.....so what you are saying....is that even though the BE could not stop from being raided....they should have split up the crappy TV deal pie another 2 or 4 ways for several seasons.....just so they wouldn't have to deal with crappy scheduling in 2004 and 2012?

Plus in doing so....the odds the BE would have gotton $20 million from WVU would be smaller?

I tend to think from a money standpoint.....the BE has done the best that it could once they didn't enbrace a northeastern football formula decades ago. Once that mistake was made...there are very few things that they could have done differently to better themselves. You could even argue that had they gotten Penn State on board....it eventually wouldn't have mattered. Short of ND joining as a full member.....I don't really see what could have prevented all of this.

I could go back even further. Had the ACC put any kind of priority on football, WVU would have been a founding member. If they had done that, the ACC wouldn't still be begging for respect on the field. Back then, travel was the excuse. Now it's academics...

The ACC missed the boat. I hope the Mountaineers get another chance to stomp their champion in a BCS bowl soon...

(04-12-2012 03:43 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Pecking order is established by money, and nothing else. IF somehow the BE had a bigger media payout than the B12, or any other conference, then the pecking order would change overnight.

Not really. By all accounts, the PAC now has the biggest media deal, but they are still clearly behind the SEC in the conference pecking order.

(04-13-2012 08:59 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-12-2012 03:43 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Pecking order is established by money, and nothing else. IF somehow the BE had a bigger media payout than the B12, or any other conference, then the pecking order would change overnight.

Not really. By all accounts, the PAC now has the biggest media deal, but they are still clearly behind the SEC in the conference pecking order.

Temporary situation. Has never been the case before. I'm talking long term. Everybody knows the SEC will jump the Pac again at the next contract, and could even crank up an SEC network.

(04-12-2012 10:05 PM)ollin Wrote:  

(04-12-2012 08:16 PM)Wooglin157 Wrote:  When the Big XII was teetering last year with Texas and others looking for

A true western division for all sports with Kansas, K-State, TCU, and Iowa State at one time would have been not so far off. Now it's just a pipe dream.

That pipe dream was a crack pipe dream. Unless the B12 fell apart which it did not, the BE was not getting those schools. We can all play the would of could of game, but you have to in the end deal in reality. The BE never was in a position to take those schools from b12. and once Tex gave in some on TV the B12 was going to survive. By reloading to 10, The B12 is in a more stable spot than they were. The Big and Pac are unlikely to raid them for a while, Sec is even doubtful, and no one else can raid them.

As for the BE, If the new TV deal is near that of the ACC, It will be better off than it was before last raid as well. It is still open to raid, but now will have the #s to survive it better.

(04-12-2012 09:22 PM)Sammy11 Wrote:  

(04-12-2012 06:04 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  The problem was that the Big East was not going to be able to add anyone for which ESPN would renegotiate the tv contract and give a big increase. So basically the league had to wait until present contract ran out and could then go out into market and hope tht competitors would drive up the value. WV AD is full of crap because he knows full well that the Eers and the other two would have taken the offers they took even if the league had expanded to 12. He is going to keep harping about Big12 expanding because he doesn't want WV being on an island in the league. But reality is that Big12 could add UL,BYU anytime they wanted to and Texas is not going to just add those two and go o a championship game that they have stated not to want just to please WV and add a couple of million in tv contracts. It has to be a major increase for UT to agree to that move

Sigh...
UT has one vote. They have been outvoted in the past. However it does have to be a major increase for a 75% vote to be reached.

Yes but if voted down Texas will always threaten to do the two step with the PAC=12 + the right new comers (Texas / Oklahoma) and the ACC with ND on the dance card. Texas must have its way or it will continue to be a destabilizing force in the Big-12 or in any other conference it joins. That in itself is why they are still in the B-12 instead of the PAC-14 right now. If the PAC-12 had let them have their way with the Longhorn network Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma St would be in the PAC-14 right now and Colorado and Utah would be on the outside looking in. You may substitute Colorado for T-Tech if you want to but Utah would never have made the PAC-12 if the Texas gig had gone down unless they were included with T-Tech and Colorado for the first Super Conference PAC-16.....................

panite, not one of your predictions has come to full fruition. Why should anyone believe this one will turn out differently?

(04-12-2012 12:44 PM)Coog82 Wrote:  

(04-12-2012 12:29 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-12-2012 12:16 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(04-12-2012 12:13 PM)wvucrazed Wrote:  WVU did what they had to do. No need to re-argue that yet again. But had the league been proactive, and if they hadn't operated at the bare minimum # of schools for years, then WVU's immediate departure wouldn't have lead to such scheduling and logistical problems for the BE.

WVU didn't have to do this, that much is certain. And when the Bevo-12 splits, Luck will be long gone and the school can't come back East looking for a seat at the table.

Even if the Big 12 collapses down the road (and I don't think it will because the Texas need for control over even money is really the driving factor), WVU will be better off because the Big 12 will just raid the Big East further (NOT the other way around). There's this fallacy that the Big 12 collapsing or ACC getting raided means that the Big East is better off, and that's simply not true. In turn, there's a fallacy advanced by C-USA/MWC fans that they're better off if the Big East gets raided further, and that's simply not true, either. Just look at this past year: every time that a league started thinking that it could jump ahead in the pecking order (Big East over the ACC, MWC over the Big East, etc.), it got slapped back to the stone age. The pecking order has been established and no matter what Texas does, the Big 12 and ACC have poaching power over the Big East, so WVU is better off in all situations.

I agree with you that we could be raided again whether from the Big 12 or the ACC under the current contract. The new TV deal is the key here. If we can at least get ACC money and the Big 12 gets...say Florida State and Clemson to move to the Big 12, there is no reason for anyone in the Big East to then move to the ACC.

If we get better money than the ACC deal, then it is possible that they could be raided by the Big East. Money is the motivator here. Money and money alone will make the Big East not only a more stable league but also a destination...instead of a stopoff point.

Now, we need to get NBC/Comcast and Fox Sports to drive that price up and see what happens after that.

The BE will never pull off a raid of the ACC. The ACC is a 50+ year old stable all sports conference with leaders that have built a strong conference and leaders that are proactive in their logic and thinking. The BE is a three headed unstable hybrid with reactive leaders pursuing their own hidden agendas. The BE can survive because of their position in the pecking order at number six by reloading from those below them but they will never be able to climb higher than the five stable all sports conferences above them who step in and pluck teams from the BE when ever there is another realignment phase. If FSU and Clemson were to jump to the B-12 (which I doubt they will do) the ACC is fine with 12 members now that they have Pitt and Syracuse in the fold. If they do move to the B-12 the move might actually help to stablemen the BE again because they might be able to pick up BYU for sure then and stop at 14 for FB when Navy arrives. However if the ACC decides to match the SEC at 14 teams if FSU and Clemson leave, then ND will receive an invite along with Rutgers or UConn. IF ND holds out with FB independence leaving their Olympic sports in the BE then Rutgers and UConn join providing the ACC with a true Atlantic Seaboard Conference from Florida to Boston remaining ahead of the BE in the pecking order in FB and BB for years to come. The BE will have to reload from CUSA and the MWC again if they want the BE name viable and on TV all year long. Otherwise the FB schools will split and the BE becomes another Atlantic 10 that shows up on the big screen only during BB season and the NCAA Tournament. If that happens all of those NE TV's will be turned on the ACC making it a very powerful TV commodity. Ya don't think that that is already on Swafford's expansion board as one of his possible moves. He is already circling the road kill by pinning in those NE TV's by adding Pitt and Syracuse to that BC Boston market. Add ND and UConn, ND and Rutgers, or Rutgers and UConn and he and the ACC own the the NE TV market. Hence we go back to the fact that the ACC will continue to raid the BE and the BE will not be raiding the ACC EVER.

WVU's AD did the right thing. Better to be left behind in The Big 12 then to be left out in The Big East. If you believe otherwise you haven't been paying attention.
CJ

Spot on, Jim!

I have no problem with WV going to Big 12. Just like I have no problem with anyone else leaving BUT I do have an issue on how they handled the move and I don't by his BS that anyone would have styled ad we expanded o 12 sooner.
Anyways in my book this is water under the bridge time to move on and if anyone else leaves we will pick someone else and move on. I'm tired of all these dumb ass threads on who is leaving next. Let's focus on the here and now

(04-14-2012 09:01 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  I have no problem with WV going to Big 12. Just like I have no problem with anyone else leaving BUT I do have an issue on how they handled the move and I don't by his BS that anyone would have styled ad we expanded o 12 sooner.
Anyways in my book this is water under the bridge time to move on and if anyone else leaves we will pick someone else and move on. I'm tired of all these dumb ass threads on who is leaving next. Let's focus on the here and now

I agree, from a PR stand point, I believe Luck could have handled things differently. I have friends in West Virginia that feel the same way. Perhaps, in his mind, he had no other choice. In the end he did what he thought was best for his program, his university and his state. I commend him for that. None of us would or should expect anything different from our leaders.

As for these dumb ass threads, unless you want to talk about baseball, not much else going on. I myself try to limit my comments about The Big 12 to our Louisville board. I certainly don't start threads here about it. It serves no purpose. I have actually been urging other Louisville fans to do the same. We need to keep family business in the family.
CJ

Carlos, IMO it was mishandled on both sides. WVU and all WVU fans lost interest in The BEast the moment Pitt and Syracuse announced their exit. Had The BEast been willing to just let WVU give them a payoff and leave, which was the end result anyway, all of this would have been settled neatly long ago. Instead of fighting WVU in court, The BEast should have been going about getting someone to replace the Mountaineers. But Marinatto was adamant that he wasn't going to let WVU out early, which both WVU and the Big XII desired due to Mizzou's early exit...

So WVU had to go to court to force things to a conclusion, and The BEast conference office did nothing outside preparing their court case. They were so certain they would win that they did no contingency planning, and had to scramble at the last minute to get a replacement, which worked out great for Temple...

But if Marinatto would've just accepted the inevitable, all of this could have been handled in a much more civilized - and cheaper - manner, with far fewer last minute details to fret over...

(04-14-2012 09:29 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Carlos, IMO it was mishandled on both sides. WVU and all WVU fans lost interest in The BEast the moment Pitt and Syracuse announced their exit. Had The BEast been willing to just let WVU give them a payoff and leave, which was the end result anyway, all of this would have been settled neatly long ago. Instead of fighting WVU in court, The BEast should have been going about getting someone to replace the Mountaineers. But Marinatto was adamant that he wasn't going to let WVU out early, which both WVU and the Big XII desired due to Mizzou's early exit...

So WVU had to go to court to force things to a conclusion, and The BEast conference office did nothing outside preparing their court case. They were so certain they would win that they did no contingency planning, and had to scramble at the last minute to get a replacement, which worked out great for Temple...

But if Marinatto would've just accepted the inevitable, all of this could have been handled in a much more civilized - and cheaper - manner, with far fewer last minute details to fret over...

Bit
I understand what you are saying and understand WV position after those two said they were leaving. The part that in my mind paints a bad picture about Luck and WV is that they had no problem with sticking cuse and Pitt to the 27 month clause but yet when it came to them they didn't think it applied. To me that's the part about WV that will always leave a sour taste. But as I have said is water under the bridge.Im ready to move on with whoever and whichever conference my school is in.

I hear you, man. I'm over it...

(04-14-2012 07:30 AM)panite Wrote:  

(04-12-2012 09:22 PM)Sammy11 Wrote:  

(04-12-2012 06:04 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  The problem was that the Big East was not going to be able to add anyone for which ESPN would renegotiate the tv contract and give a big increase. So basically the league had to wait until present contract ran out and could then go out into market and hope tht competitors would drive up the value. WV AD is full of crap because he knows full well that the Eers and the other two would have taken the offers they took even if the league had expanded to 12. He is going to keep harping about Big12 expanding because he doesn't want WV being on an island in the league. But reality is that Big12 could add UL,BYU anytime they wanted to and Texas is not going to just add those two and go o a championship game that they have stated not to want just to please WV and add a couple of million in tv contracts. It has to be a major increase for UT to agree to that move

Sigh...
UT has one vote. They have been outvoted in the past. However it does have to be a major increase for a 75% vote to be reached.

Yes but if voted down Texas will always threaten to do the two step with the PAC=12 + the right new comers (Texas / Oklahoma) and the ACC with ND on the dance card. Texas must have its way or it will continue to be a destabilizing force in the Big-12 or in any other conference it joins. That in itself is why they are still in the B-12 instead of the PAC-14 right now. If the PAC-12 had let them have their way with the Longhorn network Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma St would be in the PAC-14 right now and Colorado and Utah would be on the outside looking in. You may substitute Colorado for T-Tech if you want to but Utah would never have made the PAC-12 if the Texas gig had gone down unless they were included with T-Tech and Colorado for the first Super Conference PAC-16.....................

You're wrong. Colorado was always a part of the Pac's plan. They wanted 16 not 14. The Pac-10 invited UT, A&M, OU, OSU, Tech and Colorado. This is the closest it actually came then A&M had to prove they had some power and stated flirting with the SEC and that lead to everyone to take a step back. Everyone but Colorado. They jumped at it, the others didn't so the Pac-10 took Utah to even out at 12.

If those 6 left and Nebraska going to the B1G it was all likely that the remaining Big XII schools (Mizz, KU, KSU, Baylor and ISU) would have joined the Big East and adding one more possibly TCU. That would have left 5 BCS leagues but would have still a strong MWC of Utah, BYU and Boise. Throw in the other three WAC schools and they finally have a strong top, middle and bottom conference. They would have at least gotten their two years of BCS level.

It all falls on A&M. If A&M just didn't have to prove it didn't need UT this is how things would have panned out.

The Big East would have had 22 BBall teams but that would have been hands down the best league ever. Throw KU, Mizz, Baylor and KSU in with what was already the best league every year. Yeesh...we would get 12 bids every year and the Garden would be the home of the wildest basketball tournament ever held.