The question I ask in response to Luck's comments: How would have things turned out differently had the Big East expanded to 12 or whatever number prior to now? Versus staying at 8?

Is he trying to tell us....that if TCU and UCF and Temple and Memphis were added years back.....that would have stopped UM, BC, Va Tech, Pitt, SU, WVU and TCU again from bolting when a better offer came?

I don't think it would have mattered. You can have 24 members....but when a better offer comes along....you will take it. Regardless of membership size.

All of these issues whould have still happened....you just wouldn't have had that scary little window (2 times) when the league only knew of having 5 "current members" staying or only having 7 football conference members in 2004.

(04-12-2012 10:12 AM)brista21 Wrote:  

(04-12-2012 10:02 AM)Borncoog74 Wrote:  Also, this should be moved/copied to the reallignment board.

As long as it stays somewhat Big East centric and civil, it can stay here. The minute it does not meet those requirements it will get moved there or to the smack board.

This is more Big XII centric than anything. I am not saying it doesn't belong here, I am just saying that the thread and it's responses should also be included on the expansion board.

The whole OP is about the WVU AD advocating "expansion" within the Big XII. Only a few sentences had anything to do with the BE. If this isn't an expansion topic also, I don't know what is.

(04-12-2012 10:12 AM)brista21 Wrote:  As long as it stays somewhat Big East centric and civil, it can stay here. The minute it does not meet those requirements it will get moved there or to the smack board.

And, like clockwork, just after your post...

(04-12-2012 10:39 AM)The Brown Bull Wrote:  The question I ask in response to Luck's comments: How would have things turned out differently had the Big East expanded to 12 or whatever number prior to now? Versus staying at 8?

Is he trying to tell us....that if TCU and UCF and Temple and Memphis were added years back.....that would have stopped UM, BC, Va Tech, Pitt, SU, WVU and TCU again from bolting when a better offer came?

I don't think it would have mattered. You can have 24 members....but when a better offer comes along....you will take it. Regardless of membership size.

All of these issues whould have still happened....you just wouldn't have had that scary little window (2 times) when the league only knew of having 5 "current members" staying or only having 7 football conference members in 2004.

Exactly, this is just Luck trying to get some more eastern teams in the league so he isn't stuck on an island in a mid-western based league. Thats all this is about. It also would help secure WVU's future if the four Pac hopefuls jump ship and leave them all standing around like they just been dumped at the prom.

(04-12-2012 10:52 AM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  

(04-12-2012 10:12 AM)brista21 Wrote:  As long as it stays somewhat Big East centric and civil, it can stay here. The minute it does not meet those requirements it will get moved there or to the smack board.

And, like clockwork, just after your post...

Please, we posted the same time. I know, my timing is as perfect as always.

(04-12-2012 10:48 AM)Borncoog74 Wrote:  

(04-12-2012 10:12 AM)brista21 Wrote:  

(04-12-2012 10:02 AM)Borncoog74 Wrote:  Also, this should be moved/copied to the reallignment board.

As long as it stays somewhat Big East centric and civil, it can stay here. The minute it does not meet those requirements it will get moved there or to the smack board.

This is more Big XII centric than anything. I am not saying it doesn't belong here, I am just saying that the thread and it's responses should also be included on the expansion board.

The whole OP is about the WVU AD advocating "expansion" within the Big XII. Only a few sentences had anything to do with the BE. If this isn't an expansion topic also, I don't know what is.

My intent was to determine complacency. This applies directly and indirectly to the Big East in that they have twice been raided, losing seven teams. Also, they have several schools that are potential targets and several that can become targets. Further, if any conference expands, the B1G, SEC and PAC will not lose schools.

In this context, with Ollie Luck bringing up the issue of complacency, this got me thinking that expansion is not truly over, rather it is only in a lull. Anyway, should the Big East be making more plans. Is it becoming complacent again? I like what has been done in the short time since everything started last year.

(04-12-2012 10:03 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  Complacent? Excuse me, but it was last at eight in 1981-82.

My apologies for not being clear about the football centeredness of my posting. You are correct in hoops terms, in football, there were no Big East teams at that time.

(04-12-2012 11:08 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(04-12-2012 10:52 AM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  

(04-12-2012 10:12 AM)brista21 Wrote:  As long as it stays somewhat Big East centric and civil, it can stay here. The minute it does not meet those requirements it will get moved there or to the smack board.

And, like clockwork, just after your post...

Please, we posted the same time. I know, my timing is as perfect as always.

LOL! 2 rep points for you, for being prompt.

(04-12-2012 08:29 AM)Ollie Schmuck Wrote:  My message to my fellow ADs -- and I’m the new kid on the block, so I haven’t really said too much (ACTUALLY Luck, you have said quite enough!) -- but I said to the group that I think the Big East was complacent by remaining at eight (teams), and that doesn’t really give you much room for error if somebody does want to pick up and leave, as happened with Pitt and Syracuse. (You're out now. Just be happy about it and QUIT COMPLAINING. BTW, the BE was up to NINE at the time. At least state the facts)

Ollie's full of it as usual. Had the BE expanded earlier with the teams they ended up getting, does he really think that would have stopped Pitt and SU from leaving? That lineup probably wouldn't have stopped WVU either.

As for H-town's question, no, expansion is not done. I'll probably give up on college sports out of pure disgust before expansion is completely finished.

(04-12-2012 11:41 AM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  

(04-12-2012 08:29 AM)Ollie Schmuck Wrote:  My message to my fellow ADs -- and I’m the new kid on the block, so I haven’t really said too much (ACTUALLY Luck, you have said quite enough!) -- but I said to the group that I think the Big East was complacent by remaining at eight (teams), and that doesn’t really give you much room for error if somebody does want to pick up and leave, as happened with Pitt and Syracuse. (You're out now. Just be happy about it and QUIT COMPLAINING. BTW, the BE was up to NINE at the time. At least state the facts)

Ollie's full of it as usual. Had the BE expanded earlier with the teams they ended up getting, does he really think that would have stopped Pitt and SU from leaving? That lineup probably wouldn't have stopped WVU either.

As for H-town's question, no, expansion is not done. I'll probably give up on college sports out of pure disgust before expansion is completely finished.

It wouldn't have stopped people from leaving, but it would have been beneficial to the league at the time, and it would have softened the blow of losing programs. If UCF, Memphis, et al. had been in the Big East and playing for a BCS league for several years, they'd presumably be ahead of where they are now.

(04-12-2012 11:57 AM)wvucrazed Wrote:  

(04-12-2012 11:41 AM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  

(04-12-2012 08:29 AM)Ollie Schmuck Wrote:  My message to my fellow ADs -- and I’m the new kid on the block, so I haven’t really said too much (ACTUALLY Luck, you have said quite enough!) -- but I said to the group that I think the Big East was complacent by remaining at eight (teams), and that doesn’t really give you much room for error if somebody does want to pick up and leave, as happened with Pitt and Syracuse. (You're out now. Just be happy about it and QUIT COMPLAINING. BTW, the BE was up to NINE at the time. At least state the facts)

Ollie's full of it as usual. Had the BE expanded earlier with the teams they ended up getting, does he really think that would have stopped Pitt and SU from leaving? That lineup probably wouldn't have stopped WVU either.

As for H-town's question, no, expansion is not done. I'll probably give up on college sports out of pure disgust before expansion is completely finished.

It wouldn't have stopped people from leaving, but it would have been beneficial to the league at the time, and it would have softened the blow of losing programs. If UCF, Memphis, et al. had been in the Big East and playing for a BCS league for several years, they'd presumably be ahead of where they are now.

Those programs will be way ahead in the next few years. I see bright futures for teams like Houston, SMU, Memphis, UCF, Boise and SDSU. The problem with BE has always been a horrible TV deal that locked the conference in until next year. Most schools weren't willing to split the pie further. I do agree BE should have expanded years earlier but it is better to be late than never. Money is still the #1 driving factor for conference expansion.

Luck is a loud mouth fool when he was in the BE. He will be a little pigeon in the B12 so he better know his place. Texas won't put up with his garbage if he keep open his mouth and insert foot.

(04-12-2012 11:15 AM)HtownOrange Wrote:  My intent was to determine complacency. This applies directly and indirectly to the Big East in that they have twice been raided, losing seven teams. Also, they have several schools that are potential targets and several that can become targets. Further, if any conference expands, the B1G, SEC and PAC will not lose schools.

In this context, with Ollie Luck bringing up the issue of complacency, this got me thinking that expansion is not truly over, rather it is only in a lull. Anyway, should the Big East be making more plans. Is it becoming complacent again? I like what has been done in the short time since everything started last year.

Besides getting a Pac-12 level TV deal there was nothing the Big East could have done. Adding schools would not have kept Miami, BC, VT, WVU, Pitt, Cuse or TCU. Getting more money would have though.

(04-12-2012 11:57 AM)wvucrazed Wrote:  It wouldn't have stopped people from leaving, but it would have been beneficial to the league at the time, and it would have softened the blow of losing programs. If UCF, Memphis, et al. had been in the Big East and playing for a BCS league for several years, they'd presumably be ahead of where they are now.

Maybe, maybe not:

Boise State - They're so good now, it's hard to imagine they'd be too far ahead of where they are now.
Houston - They would certainly be more consistent, but Sumlin would have still bailed.
I'd certainly see UCF, SMU, SD State, Memphis and Temple as a lot better.

So, maybe the conference would be stronger now (that is if we had those teams now) than it will be in 2013, but I wouldn't see the top as much different. And the top is the only thing the media tends to pay attention to.

One aspect of what you say is definitely correct - that the schools wouldn't have this scheduling mess that it has now. And it only took the immediate departure of WVU to cause that.

(04-12-2012 11:07 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  [quote='The Brown Bull' pid='7781508' dateline='1334245177']
this is just Luck trying to get some more eastern teams in the league so he isn't stuck on an island in a mid-western based league. Thats all this is about.

Absolutely.

(04-12-2012 12:07 PM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  One aspect of what you say is definitely correct - that the schools wouldn't have this scheduling mess that it has now. And it only took the immediate departure of WVU to cause that.

WVU did what they had to do. No need to re-argue that yet again. But had the league been proactive, and if they hadn't operated at the bare minimum # of schools for years, then WVU's immediate departure wouldn't have lead to such scheduling and logistical problems for the BE.

(04-12-2012 12:13 PM)wvucrazed Wrote:  

(04-12-2012 12:07 PM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  One aspect of what you say is definitely correct - that the schools wouldn't have this scheduling mess that it has now. And it only took the immediate departure of WVU to cause that.

WVU did what they had to do. No need to re-argue that yet again. But had the league been proactive, and if they hadn't operated at the bare minimum # of schools for years, then WVU's immediate departure wouldn't have lead to such scheduling and logistical problems for the BE.

Proactive like adding TCU?

(04-12-2012 12:13 PM)wvucrazed Wrote:  WVU did what they had to do. No need to re-argue that yet again. But had the league been proactive, and if they hadn't operated at the bare minimum # of schools for years, then WVU's immediate departure wouldn't have lead to such scheduling and logistical problems for the BE.

WVU didn't have to do this, that much is certain. And when the Bevo-12 splits, Luck will be long gone and the school can't come back East looking for a seat at the table.

(04-12-2012 12:16 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(04-12-2012 12:13 PM)wvucrazed Wrote:  WVU did what they had to do. No need to re-argue that yet again. But had the league been proactive, and if they hadn't operated at the bare minimum # of schools for years, then WVU's immediate departure wouldn't have lead to such scheduling and logistical problems for the BE.

WVU didn't have to do this, that much is certain. And when the Bevo-12 splits, Luck will be long gone and the school can't come back East looking for a seat at the table.

Even if the Big 12 collapses down the road (and I don't think it will because the Texas need for control over even money is really the driving factor), WVU will be better off because the Big 12 will just raid the Big East further (NOT the other way around). There's this fallacy that the Big 12 collapsing or ACC getting raided means that the Big East is better off, and that's simply not true. In turn, there's a fallacy advanced by C-USA/MWC fans that they're better off if the Big East gets raided further, and that's simply not true, either. Just look at this past year: every time that a league started thinking that it could jump ahead in the pecking order (Big East over the ACC, MWC over the Big East, etc.), it got slapped back to the stone age. The pecking order has been established and no matter what Texas does, the Big 12 and ACC have poaching power over the Big East, so WVU is better off in all situations.

(04-12-2012 12:16 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  WVU didn't have to do this, that much is certain. And when the Bevo-12 splits, Luck will be long gone and the school can't come back East looking for a seat at the table.

We wouldn't need to, but even if we did the BE would be deliriously happy to welcome WVU back into the fold, and it would do so with no questions asked.

But that's a hypothetical with little chance of ever happening because it would be the Big 12 adding BE schools if membership were needed, not the other way around.

(04-12-2012 12:13 PM)wvucrazed Wrote:  

(04-12-2012 12:07 PM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  One aspect of what you say is definitely correct - that the schools wouldn't have this scheduling mess that it has now. And it only took the immediate departure of WVU to cause that.

WVU did what they had to do. No need to re-argue that yet again. But had the league been proactive, and if they hadn't operated at the bare minimum # of schools for years, then WVU's immediate departure wouldn't have lead to such scheduling and logistical problems for the BE.

I'm not. I think you and I are saying the same thing. More accurately, I should have stated: the combination of having eight schools and WVU/TCU leaving immediately caused the scheduling commotion.