Now lets all climb back in the reality mobile...come on. With or without Lovers soapbox rant, they did drop football. They went a different direction. Instead of doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, they did something different. Right or wrong, its what it is. My point has been the same. Nothing against football, however, i think etsu athletics has had some positive gains in the last eight years. Would we have had those gains had we continued the same old same? I dunno, my reality mobile does not come with a way to turn back time. Would we be in a better position athletically now if we continued football? Who knows...magic 8 ball says "ask again later". I just grow tired of hearing how things would be different THIS time and how we SHOULD have done this or IF we had done that. Tired... Where was all this enthusiasm and rhetoric when they were thinking about dropping it? You all knew it was coming if X,Y and Z didnt change. Nothing changed and now you are reacting. Where was all this vision in 2001?

(11-02-2011 03:15 PM)straightfromthehorsesmouth Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 02:55 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 02:09 PM)bucfan81 Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 01:45 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 01:37 PM)bucfan81 Wrote:  Going nowhere without football. Except straight down.

went nowhere WITH football...

If there is anything proven over the last eight years and that is ETSU is going nowhere without football. With football it might even elevate the soccer program.

might...might not. FB did not elevate ANY other program at etsu. why would it now?

Other than baseball having to eat at McD's instead of Golden C, ETSU football really didn't drag down any of the other sports either. Would you honestly ever look at that and say, I guess football really wasn't hurting us so bad. Men's basketball was just fine when there was football, tennis did good (they couldn't fly in private jets and couldn't go hang out on the West Coast as much, but hey, that's life), men's golf held their own, women's basketball slipped up and beat UTC from time-to-time, it's all in the priorities and the mentality, the coaching and the ability to recruit.

I guess it's nice to brag about winning a meaningless trophy for All Sports, but where you are beating up on schools with half the funding, kind of makes more of a bad taste to some people than doing the happy dance.

Go ahead, do you typical slamming. At the end of the day, you'll be sitting by yourself at a men's soccer game while the rest of the real world is looking forward to the end of another "sit at home and watch other people play football season."

You will never convince anyone that's not been brainwashed by the Mullins-Stanton-Breedlove Love Triangle that ETSU is "better off" today than we were 10 years ago. Empty seats, draining students pockets for little in return, offending most alumni, pissing off people with common sense.

Please.

read my post...i didnt say anything about FB dragging down another sport. as to your other babble...skittles

slappy, we are tired of your defeatist attitude but alas, you fit in perfect with the mullins/stanton duo. You sir, agree with their policy of 'can't do', 'stupid excuses' and 'care less about what the students, fans, alumni, community and donors want'. Its people like you that have caused the mess that ETSU has put the athletic department in. Your support of a poorly run sports department just continues to feed their failure to bring ETSU into the 21 century of college sports.

Thanks, Tips. We didn't notice ETSU did the opposite of what most other colleges and universities have been doing the last ten years.
They quit, it was easier, required less effort, and gave them weekends in the fall off. Nothing more, nothing less. Eventually the wrong person is going to see how much money is being blown on the current model at ETSU and start asking very serious questions, and it'll be more than just messageboard banter.

(11-02-2011 03:30 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  Now lets all climb back in the reality mobile...come on. With or without Lovers soapbox rant, they did drop football. They went a different direction. Instead of doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, they did something different. Right or wrong, its what it is. My point has been the same. Nothing against football, however, i think etsu athletics has had some positive gains in the last eight years. Would we have had those gains had we continued the same old same? I dunno, my reality mobile does not come with a way to turn back time. Would we be in a better position athletically now if we continued football? Who knows...magic 8 ball says "ask again later". I just grow tired of hearing how things would be different THIS time and how we SHOULD have done this or IF we had done that. Tired... Where was all this enthusiasm and rhetoric when they were thinking about dropping it? You all knew it was coming if X,Y and Z didnt change. Nothing changed and now you are reacting. Where was all this vision in 2001?

I'll bite.....What gains?

(11-02-2011 11:32 AM)buckys Wrote:  ETSU will not be able to move to Sun Belt, A10. C-USA or CAA.....We have no basketball or football facilities that meet their equirements and there is nothing on the drawing board to show these conferences that ETSU is committed too building them.

ETSU doen't even have a track facility for one of the most respected coaches in the country, another black eye for the athletic program.

Bingo, we're never going to jump from the A-Sun to Sun Belt or any conference like it. There is a certain progression to this.

Getting back into the SOCON is not the ultimate goal but it is step #1.

(11-02-2011 02:55 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 02:09 PM)bucfan81 Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 01:45 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 01:37 PM)bucfan81 Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 01:05 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  Heck...why not the ACC or better yet, lets talk to App and go to the SEC as a package. They said they wanted two more teams!!!!

Going nowhere without football. Except straight down.

went nowhere WITH football...

If there is anything proven over the last eight years and that is ETSU is going nowhere without football. With football it might even elevate the soccer program.

might...might not. FB did not elevate ANY other program at etsu. why would it now?

You speak without knowledge sir.

What I'm saying is I don't even think that's the answer for step one. I've been a Big South proponent with a spattering of SoCon OOC teams all along once football comes back. Of course it would depend on what they would want to do. Would the Big South expand to a 12 team football, 14 basketball conference with split divisions? I don't know, maybe the Southern is the right starting point, but I see the Big South as somewhere that some wins can be logged and early momentum picked up.

(11-02-2011 05:42 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 11:32 AM)buckys Wrote:  ETSU will not be able to move to Sun Belt, A10. C-USA or CAA.....We have no basketball or football facilities that meet their equirements and there is nothing on the drawing board to show these conferences that ETSU is committed too building them.

ETSU doen't even have a track facility for one of the most respected coaches in the country, another black eye for the athletic program.

Bingo, we're never going to jump from the A-Sun to Sun Belt or any conference like it. There is a certain progression to this.

Getting back into the SOCON is not the ultimate goal but it is step #1.

(11-02-2011 05:49 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 02:55 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 02:09 PM)bucfan81 Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 01:45 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 01:37 PM)bucfan81 Wrote:  Going nowhere without football. Except straight down.

went nowhere WITH football...

If there is anything proven over the last eight years and that is ETSU is going nowhere without football. With football it might even elevate the soccer program.

might...might not. FB did not elevate ANY other program at etsu. why would it now?

You speak without knowledge sir.

enlighten me then...

(11-02-2011 07:26 PM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  What I'm saying is I don't even think that's the answer for step one. I've been a Big South proponent with a spattering of SoCon OOC teams all along once football comes back. Of course it would depend on what they would want to do. Would the Big South expand to a 12 team football, 14 basketball conference with split divisions? I don't know, maybe the Southern is the right starting point, but I see the Big South as somewhere that some wins can be logged and early momentum picked up.

(11-02-2011 05:42 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 11:32 AM)buckys Wrote:  ETSU will not be able to move to Sun Belt, A10. C-USA or CAA.....We have no basketball or football facilities that meet their equirements and there is nothing on the drawing board to show these conferences that ETSU is committed too building them.

ETSU doen't even have a track facility for one of the most respected coaches in the country, another black eye for the athletic program.

Bingo, we're never going to jump from the A-Sun to Sun Belt or any conference like it. There is a certain progression to this.

Getting back into the SOCON is not the ultimate goal but it is step #1.

yes, lover is right. wins over gardner-webb and campbell is just the fuel we need to propell us straight into the big 12....NO THE PAC TEN. then we have oregon, usc, and stanford coming to our retro-fitted soccer/football stadium every other year! why cant etsu's administration see that?

(11-02-2011 04:32 PM)buckys Wrote:  slappy, we are tired of your defeatist attitude but alas, you fit in perfect with the mullins/stanton duo. You sir, agree with their policy of 'can't do', 'stupid excuses' and 'care less about what the students, fans, alumni, community and donors want'. Its people like you that have caused the mess that ETSU has put the athletic department in. Your support of a poorly run sports department just continues to feed their failure to bring ETSU into the 21 century of college sports.

just because i dont think the sky will cave in without football, dont lump me into the yes crowd. never said cant, never made excuses, and as for the students, fans, alumni, community and donors you speak of, why not answer the question in my post...

I just grow tired of hearing how things would be different THIS time and how we SHOULD have done this or IF we had done that. Tired... Where was all this enthusiasm and rhetoric when they were thinking about dropping it? You all knew it was coming if X,Y and Z didnt change. Nothing changed and now you are reacting. Where was all this vision in 2001?

(11-02-2011 04:54 PM)Goldfinger Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 03:30 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  Now lets all climb back in the reality mobile...come on. With or without Lovers soapbox rant, they did drop football. They went a different direction. Instead of doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, they did something different. Right or wrong, its what it is. My point has been the same. Nothing against football, however, i think etsu athletics has had some positive gains in the last eight years. Would we have had those gains had we continued the same old same? I dunno, my reality mobile does not come with a way to turn back time. Would we be in a better position athletically now if we continued football? Who knows...magic 8 ball says "ask again later". I just grow tired of hearing how things would be different THIS time and how we SHOULD have done this or IF we had done that. Tired... Where was all this enthusiasm and rhetoric when they were thinking about dropping it? You all knew it was coming if X,Y and Z didnt change. Nothing changed and now you are reacting. Where was all this vision in 2001?

I'll bite.....What gains?

havent we been over this?

(11-02-2011 08:48 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 04:54 PM)Goldfinger Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 03:30 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  Now lets all climb back in the reality mobile...come on. With or without Lovers soapbox rant, they did drop football. They went a different direction. Instead of doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, they did something different. Right or wrong, its what it is. My point has been the same. Nothing against football, however, i think etsu athletics has had some positive gains in the last eight years. Would we have had those gains had we continued the same old same? I dunno, my reality mobile does not come with a way to turn back time. Would we be in a better position athletically now if we continued football? Who knows...magic 8 ball says "ask again later". I just grow tired of hearing how things would be different THIS time and how we SHOULD have done this or IF we had done that. Tired... Where was all this enthusiasm and rhetoric when they were thinking about dropping it? You all knew it was coming if X,Y and Z didnt change. Nothing changed and now you are reacting. Where was all this vision in 2001?

I'll bite.....What gains?

havent we been over this?

I'm sorry but the claim ETSU is better off now than it was in 2003 is a new one for me.

(11-02-2011 08:57 PM)Goldfinger Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 08:48 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 04:54 PM)Goldfinger Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 03:30 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  Now lets all climb back in the reality mobile...come on. With or without Lovers soapbox rant, they did drop football. They went a different direction. Instead of doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, they did something different. Right or wrong, its what it is. My point has been the same. Nothing against football, however, i think etsu athletics has had some positive gains in the last eight years. Would we have had those gains had we continued the same old same? I dunno, my reality mobile does not come with a way to turn back time. Would we be in a better position athletically now if we continued football? Who knows...magic 8 ball says "ask again later". I just grow tired of hearing how things would be different THIS time and how we SHOULD have done this or IF we had done that. Tired... Where was all this enthusiasm and rhetoric when they were thinking about dropping it? You all knew it was coming if X,Y and Z didnt change. Nothing changed and now you are reacting. Where was all this vision in 2001?

I'll bite.....What gains?

havent we been over this?

I'm sorry but the claim ETSU is better off now than it was in 2003 is a new one for me.

who said better off...?

(11-02-2011 09:02 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 08:57 PM)Goldfinger Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 08:48 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 04:54 PM)Goldfinger Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 03:30 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  Now lets all climb back in the reality mobile...come on. With or without Lovers soapbox rant, they did drop football. They went a different direction. Instead of doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, they did something different. Right or wrong, its what it is. My point has been the same. Nothing against football, however, i think etsu athletics has had some positive gains in the last eight years. Would we have had those gains had we continued the same old same? I dunno, my reality mobile does not come with a way to turn back time. Would we be in a better position athletically now if we continued football? Who knows...magic 8 ball says "ask again later". I just grow tired of hearing how things would be different THIS time and how we SHOULD have done this or IF we had done that. Tired... Where was all this enthusiasm and rhetoric when they were thinking about dropping it? You all knew it was coming if X,Y and Z didnt change. Nothing changed and now you are reacting. Where was all this vision in 2001?

I'll bite.....What gains?

havent we been over this?

I'm sorry but the claim ETSU is better off now than it was in 2003 is a new one for me.

who said better off...?

Fine...Gains...GO

(11-02-2011 09:05 PM)Goldfinger Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 09:02 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 08:57 PM)Goldfinger Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 08:48 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 04:54 PM)Goldfinger Wrote:  I'll bite.....What gains?

havent we been over this?

I'm sorry but the claim ETSU is better off now than it was in 2003 is a new one for me.

who said better off...?

Fine...Gains...GO

i dont have time to hold your hand. go down the normal threads to the "this should end the debate" thread. it clearly states what i would consider gains. 7 teams in the top 100 nationally, the first time since the dome that athletic facilities were constructed on campus, four of them counting baseball, 3.2 gpa overall athletics gpa, etc...

(11-02-2011 07:26 PM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  What I'm saying is I don't even think that's the answer for step one. I've been a Big South proponent with a spattering of SoCon OOC teams all along once football comes back. Of course it would depend on what they would want to do. Would the Big South expand to a 12 team football, 14 basketball conference with split divisions? I don't know, maybe the Southern is the right starting point, but I see the Big South as somewhere that some wins can be logged and early momentum picked up.

(11-02-2011 05:42 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 11:32 AM)buckys Wrote:  ETSU will not be able to move to Sun Belt, A10. C-USA or CAA.....We have no basketball or football facilities that meet their equirements and there is nothing on the drawing board to show these conferences that ETSU is committed too building them.

ETSU doen't even have a track facility for one of the most respected coaches in the country, another black eye for the athletic program.

Bingo, we're never going to jump from the A-Sun to Sun Belt or any conference like it. There is a certain progression to this.

Getting back into the SOCON is not the ultimate goal but it is step #1.

The issue is whether the Big South will move the dial more than the SOCON. Part of moving up and by extension moving forward is demonstrating that you have a strong and viable fanbase. Better facilities and a better gameday atmosphere are certainly part of it but great facilities without people filling them up do us no good. Getting people out includes playing opponents that fans get up for and games people want to see. Even with App State leaving that certainly exists in the SOCON. Whether fans will come out to the same degree to watch the Bucs play Radford, UNC-A, Winthrop, VMI, or Coastal Carolina as they will for Davidson, UTC, C of C, etc is a topic for debate. From a prestige standpoint the SOCON has consistently outpaced the Big South in RPI, amount of teams receiving top 25 votes, NBA prospects, etc.

Certainly App State moving on is a huge blow but I still believe SOCON opponents would be a bigger draw than Big South opponents.

(11-02-2011 08:32 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 05:49 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 02:55 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 02:09 PM)bucfan81 Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 01:45 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  went nowhere WITH football...

If there is anything proven over the last eight years and that is ETSU is going nowhere without football. With football it might even elevate the soccer program.

might...might not. FB did not elevate ANY other program at etsu. why would it now?

You speak without knowledge sir.

enlighten me then...

Every dime spent on football is worth 10 spent on any other sport.

Its funny because I was having a conversation with one of the big boosters for the University of Cincinnati. This is a guy who has given A LOT of money to the athletic department, almost all of which was earmarked for football. He is currently distraught because despite all the money he has given to UC basketball, despite all the winning, the packed house on gameday, etc he is about to watch UC athletics take a major step backwards as a result of the conference realignment saga.

Albeit it may be too late but he understands now what you and others never have, FOOTBALL DRIVES THE BUS. He tells me last night "if we had invested and committed to football sooner it would be us not those rednecks from West Virginia getting that invite to the Big 12." Despite a long an illustrious basketball tradition going all the way back beyond Oscar Robertson, UC is about to get left out in the cold because of the state of its football program.

Even as a money drain football has more value for ETSU than any other sport. It has been proven time and again that schools with strong football programs attract and retain better students. Conferences looking to add members continue to seek out schools on the basis of football first and everything else second (why the Big 10 went after Nebraska and not Kansas).

UNC Charlotte AD Judy Rose, who kick starter their football renewal nailed it on the head.... "the question is not whether we can afford football, the question is whether we can afford NOT to have football."

Quote:"I have thought for a longtime that the landscape of intercollegiate athletics was going to change," said Rose. "My concern has been what would happen to a large public institution that did not have football. My fear has been that schools that don't have football might get left out of the mix in intercollegiate athletics all together. I would hate to have seen not having football to have become a major issue for our institution. The main reason for us to add football was to protect the rest of our athletic program."

Citing recent conference realignments, Rose said she believed that UNC Charlotte's options have been limited in the past because of the lack of a football program despite having an excellent basketball team.

"The last two conference expansions, they were not motivated by basketball, they were motivated by football," Rose said. "Why did the Big East take TCU, they are nowhere in that geographic region. It's because of football. And when Nebraska joins the Big Ten, it's because of football... This is all driven by football."

http://www.collegefootballpoll.com/news_...teams.html

(11-02-2011 08:45 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 04:32 PM)buckys Wrote:  slappy, we are tired of your defeatist attitude but alas, you fit in perfect with the mullins/stanton duo. You sir, agree with their policy of 'can't do', 'stupid excuses' and 'care less about what the students, fans, alumni, community and donors want'. Its people like you that have caused the mess that ETSU has put the athletic department in. Your support of a poorly run sports department just continues to feed their failure to bring ETSU into the 21 century of college sports.

just because i dont think the sky will cave in without football, dont lump me into the yes crowd. never said cant, never made excuses, and as for the students, fans, alumni, community and donors you speak of, why not answer the question in my post...

I just grow tired of hearing how things would be different THIS time and how we SHOULD have done this or IF we had done that. Tired... Where was all this enthusiasm and rhetoric when they were thinking about dropping it? You all knew it was coming if X,Y and Z didnt change. Nothing changed and now you are reacting. Where was all this vision in 2001?

There were people to tried to organize concerted efforts to stop this action but we were threatened and intimidated. People tried to contact Dr. Stanton (namely Ken Simonds and Steve Grindstaff, just off the top of my head) and they could not talk to him. The "announcement" was leaked a tad late in the semester with students moving out of the dorms and graduation taking place. Of course we know how hard the Pirate Club tried to convince Dr. Stanton to give them a chance to raise money to stop the process. He said no.

So, my friend, this is not a new thing. The same people who started this are still working everyday and we've added many people over the past 7 years. The "base" if fired up right now, so we can only hope that a new President will see this as an opportunity and not a threat.

(11-02-2011 11:33 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 08:32 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 05:49 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 02:55 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  

(11-02-2011 02:09 PM)bucfan81 Wrote:  If there is anything proven over the last eight years and that is ETSU is going nowhere without football. With football it might even elevate the soccer program.

might...might not. FB did not elevate ANY other program at etsu. why would it now?

You speak without knowledge sir.

enlighten me then...

Every dime spent on football is worth 10 spent on any other sport.

Its funny because I was having a conversation with one of the big boosters for the University of Cincinnati. This is a guy who has given A LOT of money to the athletic department, almost all of which was earmarked for football. He is currently distraught because despite all the money he has given to UC basketball, despite all the winning, the packed house on gameday, etc he is about to watch UC athletics take a major step backwards as a result of the conference realignment saga.

Albeit it may be too late but he understands now what you and others never have, FOOTBALL DRIVES THE BUS. He tells me last night "if we had invested and committed to football sooner it would be us not those rednecks from West Virginia getting that invite to the Big 12." Despite a long an illustrious basketball tradition going all the way back beyond Oscar Robertson, UC is about to get left out in the cold because of the state of its football program.

Even as a money drain football has more value for ETSU than any other sport. It has been proven time and again that schools with strong football programs attract and retain better students. Conferences looking to add members continue to seek out schools on the basis of football first and everything else second (why the Big 10 went after Nebraska and not Kansas).

UNC Charlotte AD Judy Rose, who kick starter their football renewal nailed it on the head.... "the question is not whether we can afford football, the question is whether we can afford NOT to have football."

Quote:"I have thought for a longtime that the landscape of intercollegiate athletics was going to change," said Rose. "My concern has been what would happen to a large public institution that did not have football. My fear has been that schools that don't have football might get left out of the mix in intercollegiate athletics all together. I would hate to have seen not having football to have become a major issue for our institution. The main reason for us to add football was to protect the rest of our athletic program."

Citing recent conference realignments, Rose said she believed that UNC Charlotte's options have been limited in the past because of the lack of a football program despite having an excellent basketball team.

"The last two conference expansions, they were not motivated by basketball, they were motivated by football," Rose said. "Why did the Big East take TCU, they are nowhere in that geographic region. It's because of football. And when Nebraska joins the Big Ten, it's because of football... This is all driven by football."

http://www.collegefootballpoll.com/news_...teams.html

And that, my friends, about nails the world of intercollegiate athletics, a world that ETSU is NOT a part of.