Fan bases will not get you anything. You only have to have a large number of TV sets. It doesn't matter if they are tuned into the games or not, just have access to a large number of "potential" TV's.

Too bad they weren't smart enough to copy the SEC model.

Forget the crazy geography and forget bridging gaps across ACC/SEC flyover territory. The Big East needs to stick with its current plan but tweak it somewhat to recapture what little remains of the Northeast while adding the most speculated football only free agents. Move forward with adding UCF, Houston, and SMU. Temple can be #9. Villanova needs to sit down and shut up about this issue for the time being. See if Air Force, Navy, and Boise State will still come for football only. If not, forget them, and enjoy at least having the BCS autobid for a couple more years. Down the road, work on adding UMass for all sports and getting BYU to join for football only. If the basketball schools don't like it, just split once the BCS takes away the slot.

ALL SPORTS
UMass + UConn
Rutgers + Temple
Cincy + Louisville
USF + UCF
SMU + Houston

FOOTBALL ONLY
Air Force + Navy
Boise State + BYU

This would lead to 10 in football and 18 in basketball, if the hybrid remains, and there is no split. Villanova upgrading can be revisited in the future, if they can figure out their money and stadium issues, but they are in no position to help right now. The other thing to do, in case the basketball schools continue to obstruct survival, is force the two conferences under one umbrella to happen as soon as possible. The 10 all sports schools can play an 18 game double round robin schedule. The basketball schools can add two members, like Xavier & Dayton, to do the same thing. Maybe play a couple of challenge events in December and January. This basically gives Comcast two whole basketball conferences to anchor their line-up along with the NHL.

(10-25-2011 02:27 PM)SmokinPirate Wrote:  Fan bases will not get you anything. You only have to have a large number of TV sets. It doesn't matter if they are tuned into the games or not, just have access to a large number of "potential" TV's.

This is true, and everyone should be aware this is the only truth out there.

Signed

-Nebraska

(10-25-2011 01:27 PM)TTT Wrote:  

(10-24-2011 10:59 AM)SmallVoice Wrote:  

(10-23-2011 09:32 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Sorry, I just don't see the Memphis add. USM would be a better add. They are much better in football and that's what we need. Who cares about basketball.

Perhaps I shouldn't comment, since apparently this thread is based on Louisville not being around (which I'm not sure about, by the way). But Memphis has potential and market. Southern Miss is all it's ever going to be. Yes, they field some good football teams and are trending right now. But last December was a good example of what happens to a good Southern Miss team in a bowl match-up against a below average Big East team.

Memphis at least has a big market and the potential to become something more than it is. It's also got some interesting tie-ins to both a big corporation and a bowl. And where would opposing fans rather travel to - Hattiesburg or Memphis?

If Louisville sticks around, I'd advocate Memphis over a lot of teams, including Southern Miss. If Cincy can improve from what it was in CUSA to being perhaps the best performer in the Big East over the past 5 years, then Memphis can move up as well.

Are you serious?? You honestly think Southern Miss has peaked?? You've got to be kidding me...in our absolute WORST years with the absolute WORST statistical defense in the history of Southern Miss, we still manage to go to the st Pete bowl and lose to yall by 3. Congratulations on beating us @ a time when we had the worst defensive coord in our history.

When Southern Miss has down years we still win 7 or 8 games.

USM and Louisville fans ALL know why yall don't want us to be in the same conference as us... "Southern Miss is all it's ever going to be"?

Yeah...perhaps you shouldn't comment on why you don't want anything to do with Southern Miss....because our overall record against yall is something like 18-9-1 or something similar. With USM, the sky is the limit. SMTTT.

I'm not downplaying your series dominance in the 80's and 90's, but let's keep in mind you are winless (0-5) since 2000 against UofL. Your sustained success is honestly impressive, but it's been quite a while since USM dominated UofL.

(10-25-2011 02:30 PM)Lolly Popp Wrote:  FOOTBALL ONLY
Air Force + Navy

Okay, i'm asking this one seriously... as I've asked the same thing on the C-USA and Expansion boards... and nobody seems to be able to give a legitimate reason other than "national appeal".

Why does everyone keep bringing up the service academies?

Navy AD's been giving the Be the "Let us think about it..." response.
Army's AD's been saying "we're not supposed to be playing football for the NCAA's sake" (the most honest answer of the entire lot)
Air Force has been wanting OUT Of the MWC (according to latest reports) for their other sports, and turned down the B12 discussions (not invites, but simple discussions), because they know they can't compete on that level repeatedly.

Navy's been giving the BE cold shoulder without "embarassing" the conference by turning them flat down.. (and Kudos to them for doing so). So why does anyone continue to think that any of the service academies would even be interested in discussing any new conference?

(10-23-2011 09:20 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Try to get the B12 to do a merger. Not saying we should try to latch on to UL's coat tails, but they could say to the B12, hey, you want us, you do a BE merger.

Second option is to pull in all the top quality Cusa teams. The BE still has an AQ for the time being. So you pull in UCF, UH, SMU, AFA, Navy, Boise St. That gives you 9. Now you add Temple and ECU, now you are at 11. USM looks pretty good right now, so maybe you add them to get o 12.

Nice idea, but unfortunatley what history has showed us is that all the BE fb schools are out for themselves only. None really seem to care what happens to the others as long as "they're saved"

(10-23-2011 09:43 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  The best we can hope for is to retain our BCS AQ status.

no chance

(10-24-2011 11:41 PM)chrisRU Wrote:  If we end up as independents, we'll be released from any commitments to the Big East. I can see RU and UConn reaching out to other traditional northeastern schools to try to form a true all-sports northeast conference. I doubt it would pan out though. Sad.

if any one goes indy in FB there other sports will still be in the BE ,unless of course they go indy in everything. In which case they would still be subject to the exit fee and 27 month notice

(10-25-2011 06:32 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Frank the Tank, an intelligent and fair-minded blogger (IMHO) who posts here on ncaabbs.com sometimes, has said repeatedly that the basic legality of the BCS system is not in any serious doubt.

Yes, but .... it's an important to understand the basis of that legality, a 1984 Supreme Court decision in favor of the CFA against the NCAA, which essentially allowed the big conferences to negotiate football TV rights independent of NCAA control. That's the basis of all the various configurations we've had since, including the BCS.

But importantly, the SCOTUS ruling was not based on a constitutional principle. If it was, then only a constitutional amendment (or another SCOTUS ruling reversing the 1984 decision) could undermine the BCS's legality. Instead, the ruling was based on an interpretation of anti-trust law as passed by Congress.

Thus, Congress can undermine that legality any time it wants by modifying anti-trust law. Now, this is not very likely, since anti-trust law covers a broad range of economic activities, and Congress is not likely to risk unintended ripple-effects in many industries just to undermine the BCS.

Nevertheless, Congressional pressure does matter. E.g., non-AQ schools were essentially frozen out of BCS bowls until 2004, when pressure by a few key Senators created enough fear in the BCS for it to modify its rules, opening things up for the TCUs, Boises, and Utahs of the college football world.

(10-25-2011 06:55 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-23-2011 09:43 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  The best we can hope for is to retain our BCS AQ status.

no chance

I think in the end...Big East will keep their AQ status.

Yep. Not worried about the AQ. It will stick

BE is going to be doing the BCS the biggest favor ever...taking in most of the remaining non-AQ schools that were raising a stink.

I'm a new poster but as for what I believe;

The Big East actually has their AQ status until the end of the 2013 season with the contract ending and up for renewal in 2014. However, there is a clause which gives the Conferences 2 additional years of AQ status if they apply for an extension. This would bring the Big East's AQ status out until the end of the 2015 season but only if they can field a 8 Team Conference Schedule each year.

With that being said, I think this is the way it will pan out for the near future.

Rutgers (Still hoping for that call from the B1G), USF, UConn (Still looking for a home in the ACC but being held hostage by the Irish), Cincinatti (Possible Expansion fodder for Big XII) and Louiville (Also Expansion fodder for the Big XII), will remain.

Teams to be added in the near future; USM, Houston, Boise St. (Just wants a Conference it can win with an AQ, BINGO!!!), AirForce (Sitting on the Fence of late), UCF (Should already be in) and Navy (Been silent the entire process).

I think in the end we will actually look like this.

Eastern Division:
Navy
UConn
Rutgers
Temple
ECU
USF
UCF
Memphis

Western Division:
Louiville
Cincinatti
Southern Miss
USM
Houston
Boise St.
BYU
AirForce

Army and Southern Miss will replace Cincinatti and Louiville upon their exit in the west. Also do not forget that UConn and Rutgers would prefer other homes. I do not doubt that possible replacements would be UTEP and SDSU. Since Notre Dame will depart us shortly, this conference will have less presure to remain bound to the East Coast.

This was all specualtion and not necessarily what I wish to happen although it would be interesting.

The New York Post just posted this http://m.nypost.com/p/sports/college/foo...yfwbS9KsNK It's great if it's true.

With the 5 remaining BE f/b members I would take the best of C-USA plus Temple.

Uconn
Rutgers
Cincinnati
Louisville
South Florida
Central Florida
East Carolina
SMU
Houston
Temple
Memphis
Southern Mississippi

This would be a better f/b conference then merging in with the Mountain West/C-USA. I think C-USA is afraid of this and is banking on our leadership not being bold enough to go forward with such a plan. This football line up also has some good basketball schools (Uconn, Louisville, Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis & Temple), combined with the b/b schools and you still have a good basketball conference.

(10-25-2011 01:04 AM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  

(10-24-2011 11:03 PM)CollegeCard Wrote:  

(10-24-2011 08:30 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  Split from the Big East and form the East Coast Conference.

Buffalo (Buffalo is a big market, great academics will pick up for some other schools in the conference, they have decent basketball, and are a sleeping giant in football)
Central Florida (Orlando market, large school, nice facilities)
Connecticut
East Carolina (Bridges gap between Marshall and the Florida schools, shown commitment to athletics, good football fan support, growing market about to crack top 100)
Marshall (Huntington market, nice football history, good basketball)
Massachusetts (Inroads to Boston market, has potential in football, is usually a good basketball school)
Rutgers
South Florida
Temple (Philadelphia market, football is pretty good, basketball has great history)

If they want to grow to 12 add Georgia State, Akron, and Old Dominion. I know two of these schools are FCS and Akron is bad at football, but they all have potential in football, are located in good recruiting states, and are all in large markets.

All of these schools are in the Eastern time zone which is good for traveling and scheduling.

I've been holding back for quite a while as I don't have a problem generally with any Pitt or Cuse fans staying on the board as many of the guys have been here forever and they didn't make any decisions. I like the posters staying on the board.

However Orangecrush, I have a hard time believing you would be submitting these proposed garbage leagues if SU was still included. How many times are you going to demean the remaining teams by suggesting we add schools like Buffalo and UMass? Akron? GSU? ODU? If you truly are keeping a straight face while making these posts then we'll just say it's very poor judgment calls on league addtions.

No, I would be saying the same things if Syracuse were still in the league. I hate the idea of having to play the likes of Houston and Boise even for a year. We're a league based in the Northeast and we need to reestablish the Northeastern presence of the league. If Syracuse were still in I wouldn't bring up Buffalo as Syracuse covers New York. But with SU gone now, Buffalo is needed to get back into New York state the most important state in the Northeast. I hate the idea of going into other timezones to get teams for the Big EAST conference.

Boise State has horrible academics and I would HATE being in the same conference as them. I didn't like the TCU move. Now the Big East wants to add two teams in Texas that are worse than TCU.

Akron just built a new football stadium, are in the 17th biggest market, have good basketball, and they have decent academics.

Buffalo is in the 51rst largest market, have decent basketball, have show some commitment to football, and have great academics. Most importantly they get the Big East back into New York.

UMass gets the league into another important state in the Northeast. Would give inroads to the Boston TV market. They would provide a rival for UConn which would help the Big East lacking big time rivalries.

Georgia State is in Atlanta, has shown tremendous support for athletics. They want to be an FBS program. Is in a great recruiting state.

ODU is located in Norfolk, has shown support for athletics, and has interest in moving up to FBS. Is in a good recruiting state.

If the Big East wants to add UCF to go along with USF, it's crucial to try to bridge the gap between the rest of the conference and them. Georgia State, East Carolina, Marshall, and Old Dominion do this.

It has tight geography similar to the ACC. All members are all sports members. No non-revenue sports will have to be flown to Houston or Dallas which eats up money, and you have to deal with the fact they're in a different time zone.

There are no schools that are football only, and no schools don't play football. Which creates unity among the conference.

These are why it is a MUCH better idea to add schools that may be "bad" at football, but they make up for it with potential and geographic fit.

Trust me with time a conference that looks like this would grow.

Div 1

Buffalo
Connecticut
East Carolina
Old Dominion
Rutgers
South Florida

Div 2

Akron
Central Florida
Georgia State
Marshall
Massachusetts
Temple

Cross Division Rivals:

Buffalo---------Akron
Connecticut----Massachusetts
East Carolina---Georgia State
Old Dominion---Marshall
Rutgers--------Temple
South Florida---Central Florida

Its all about timing. I think the BE has to add some schools immediately for 2012. No way we're ready in that time period. 2013 or 2014 maybe. So the BE needs to add UCF and ECU NOW

(10-25-2011 02:30 PM)Lolly Popp Wrote:  If the basketball schools don't like it, just split once the BCS takes away the slot.

In that case wouldn't UConn, Rutgers and likely UL and UC retain non-football membership in the BE?

(10-25-2011 10:29 PM)RUfan03 Wrote:  With the 5 remaining BE f/b members I would take the best of C-USA plus Temple.

Uconn
Rutgers
Cincinnati
Louisville
South Florida
Central Florida
East Carolina
SMU
Houston
Temple
Memphis
Southern Mississippi

This would be a better f/b conference then merging in with the Mountain West/C-USA. I think C-USA is afraid of this and is banking on our leadership not being bold enough to go forward with such a plan. This football line up also has some good basketball schools (Uconn, Louisville, Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis & Temple), combined with the b/b schools and you still have a good basketball conference.

I agree. This is the best and most stable option. It guts CUSA's bid for AQ and is a smaller footprint. I think there should be a split with the bb schools.

(10-25-2011 01:04 AM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  

(10-24-2011 11:03 PM)CollegeCard Wrote:  

(10-24-2011 08:30 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  Split from the Big East and form the East Coast Conference.

Buffalo (Buffalo is a big market, great academics will pick up for some other schools in the conference, they have decent basketball, and are a sleeping giant in football)
Central Florida (Orlando market, large school, nice facilities)
Connecticut
East Carolina (Bridges gap between Marshall and the Florida schools, shown commitment to athletics, good football fan support, growing market about to crack top 100)
Marshall (Huntington market, nice football history, good basketball)
Massachusetts (Inroads to Boston market, has potential in football, is usually a good basketball school)
Rutgers
South Florida
Temple

I've been holding back for quite a while as I don't have a problem generally with any Pitt or Cuse fans staying on the board as many of the guys have been here forever and they didn't make any decisions. I like the posters staying on the board.

However Orangecrush, I have a hard time believing you would be submitting these proposed garbage leagues if SU was still included. How many times are you going to demean the remaining teams by suggesting we add schools like Buffalo and UMass? Akron? GSU? ODU? If you truly are keeping a straight face while making these posts then we'll just say it's very poor judgment calls on league addtions.

No, I would be saying the same things if Syracuse were still in the league.

Bullsh*t on what I bolded. Your post today on the expansion board contradicts your statement, and goes in line with the thoughts I've had for a while, either that you like trolling miko style or else the intelligence is lacking. Unlike most Syracuse fans on this board who are great contributors, you're beyond clueless. You think it's acceptable to suggest adding schools who literally just started a football program because you think UofL is a CUSA school still.

Orangecrush's comment:

(10-25-2011 11:32 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  Louisville and Cincinnati belong in C-USA with similar schools.

Congrats, you win the most idiotic post of the day on the Expansion board, which is quite a feat!

(10-25-2011 01:04 AM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  

(10-24-2011 11:03 PM)CollegeCard Wrote:  

(10-24-2011 08:30 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  Split from the Big East and form the East Coast Conference.

Buffalo (Buffalo is a big market, great academics will pick up for some other schools in the conference, they have decent basketball, and are a sleeping giant in football)
Central Florida (Orlando market, large school, nice facilities)
Connecticut
East Carolina (Bridges gap between Marshall and the Florida schools, shown commitment to athletics, good football fan support, growing market about to crack top 100)
Marshall (Huntington market, nice football history, good basketball)
Massachusetts (Inroads to Boston market, has potential in football, is usually a good basketball school)
Rutgers
South Florida
Temple (Philadelphia market, football is pretty good, basketball has great history)

If they want to grow to 12 add Georgia State, Akron, and Old Dominion. I know two of these schools are FCS and Akron is bad at football, but they all have potential in football, are located in good recruiting states, and are all in large markets.

All of these schools are in the Eastern time zone which is good for traveling and scheduling.

I've been holding back for quite a while as I don't have a problem generally with any Pitt or Cuse fans staying on the board as many of the guys have been here forever and they didn't make any decisions. I like the posters staying on the board.

However Orangecrush, I have a hard time believing you would be submitting these proposed garbage leagues if SU was still included. How many times are you going to demean the remaining teams by suggesting we add schools like Buffalo and UMass? Akron? GSU? ODU? If you truly are keeping a straight face while making these posts then we'll just say it's very poor judgment calls on league addtions.

No, I would be saying the same things if Syracuse were still in the league. I hate the idea of having to play the likes of Houston and Boise even for a year. We're a league based in the Northeast and we need to reestablish the Northeastern presence of the league. If Syracuse were still in I wouldn't bring up Buffalo as Syracuse covers New York. But with SU gone now, Buffalo is needed to get back into New York state the most important state in the Northeast. I hate the idea of going into other timezones to get teams for the Big EAST conference.

Boise State has horrible academics and I would HATE being in the same conference as them. I didn't like the TCU move. Now the Big East wants to add two teams in Texas that are worse than TCU.

Akron just built a new football stadium, are in the 17th biggest market, have good basketball, and they have decent academics.

Buffalo is in the 51rst largest market, have decent basketball, have show some commitment to football, and have great academics. Most importantly they get the Big East back into New York.

UMass gets the league into another important state in the Northeast. Would give inroads to the Boston TV market. They would provide a rival for UConn which would help the Big East lacking big time rivalries.

Georgia State is in Atlanta, has shown tremendous support for athletics. They want to be an FBS program. Is in a great recruiting state.

ODU is located in Norfolk, has shown support for athletics, and has interest in moving up to FBS. Is in a good recruiting state.

If the Big East wants to add UCF to go along with USF, it's crucial to try to bridge the gap between the rest of the conference and them. Georgia State, East Carolina, Marshall, and Old Dominion do this.

It has tight geography similar to the ACC. All members are all sports members. No non-revenue sports will have to be flown to Houston or Dallas which eats up money, and you have to deal with the fact they're in a different time zone.

There are no schools that are football only, and no schools don't play football. Which creates unity among the conference.

These are why it is a MUCH better idea to add schools that may be "bad" at football, but they make up for it with potential and geographic fit.

Trust me with time a conference that looks like this would grow.

Div 1

Buffalo
Connecticut
East Carolina
Old Dominion
Rutgers
South Florida

Div 2

Akron
Central Florida
Georgia State
Marshall
Massachusetts
Temple

Cross Division Rivals:

Buffalo---------Akron
Connecticut----Massachusetts
East Carolina---Georgia State
Old Dominion---Marshall
Rutgers--------Temple
South Florida---Central Florida

You used to be sort of a respectable poster. Now, you're just a flat idiot.

(10-26-2011 02:59 PM)CollegeCard Wrote:  

(10-25-2011 01:04 AM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  

(10-24-2011 11:03 PM)CollegeCard Wrote:  

(10-24-2011 08:30 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  Split from the Big East and form the East Coast Conference.

Buffalo (Buffalo is a big market, great academics will pick up for some other schools in the conference, they have decent basketball, and are a sleeping giant in football)
Central Florida (Orlando market, large school, nice facilities)
Connecticut
East Carolina (Bridges gap between Marshall and the Florida schools, shown commitment to athletics, good football fan support, growing market about to crack top 100)
Marshall (Huntington market, nice football history, good basketball)
Massachusetts (Inroads to Boston market, has potential in football, is usually a good basketball school)
Rutgers
South Florida
Temple

I've been holding back for quite a while as I don't have a problem generally with any Pitt or Cuse fans staying on the board as many of the guys have been here forever and they didn't make any decisions. I like the posters staying on the board.

However Orangecrush, I have a hard time believing you would be submitting these proposed garbage leagues if SU was still included. How many times are you going to demean the remaining teams by suggesting we add schools like Buffalo and UMass? Akron? GSU? ODU? If you truly are keeping a straight face while making these posts then we'll just say it's very poor judgment calls on league addtions.

No, I would be saying the same things if Syracuse were still in the league.

Bullsh*t on what I bolded. Your post today on the expansion board contradicts your statement, and goes in line with the thoughts I've had for a while, either that you like trolling miko style or else the intelligence is lacking. Unlike most Syracuse fans on this board who are great contributors, you're beyond clueless. You think it's acceptable to suggest adding schools who literally just started a football program because you think UofL is a CUSA school still.

Orangecrush's comment:

(10-25-2011 11:32 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  Louisville and Cincinnati belong in C-USA with similar schools.

Congrats, you win the most idiotic post of the day on the Expansion board, which is quite a feat!

I'll post the quote in full. The part you quoted is actually somewhat tame compared to the rest.

Name a team that shouldn't be in a BCS conference. Syracuse carried the Big East during the start of the BCS era. After '04 we went into a decline. Now we're a bowl team again. 8 wins last year, and we're on pace for more this year. Without Syracuse, Cincinnati wouldn't be an BCS team. Syracuse is by FAR a better program than Cincinnati. So, don't go and try to make it out like they deserve to be AQ over us. You can look at the numbers to prove it. Syracuse has more wins and less losses than Cincinnati. Way more All-Americans, etc. Same thing with Houston.

It was embarrassing losing to C-USA teams. A former player pretty much summed it up when he saw the South Florida beat Syracuse for the first time. He didn't know South Florida was a school or that they were in the Big East.

We're past that now last year we crushed Cincinnati at Cincinnati, beat South Florida. We play Louisville next week, and we've embarrassed them in the past when we were the worst team in college football. Syracuse is returning to dominance.

Houston would be much better off staying in C-USA. C-USA would be much better off without this stupid alliance with the MWC. I don't understand why all these stupid moves are being made. Houston, Boise State, and Rutgers have nothing in common yet they're all going to be in the same conference. Then I get ridiculed for bring up teams like Buffalo that would fit in perfectly with the Big East.

Louisville and Cincinnati belong in C-USA with similar schools. Syracuse always and will forever have nothing in common with them, neither will UConn, Rutgers, Pittsburgh, or West Virginia. This is why the Big East failed, a bunch of schools that have nothing in common tried to form a conference.

(10-26-2011 03:03 PM)Brahman Wrote:  You used to be sort of a respectable poster. Now, you're just a flat idiot.

For sure. If we were voting to kick one idiot off the Big East board island, Crush is it. I'm cool with just about everybody sticking around here, but he should take that garbage to the ACC board and wild west expansion board. No one wants to hear his drivel here.