I am sorry to add to the noise on redonkuloose threads, but this little devil on my shoulder keeps saying

"Why wouldn't Iowa State want to come to the MAC? They would instantly be the best Athletic school by far, and the MAC has numerous NCAA automatic berths in many sports. What better way for ISU to jettison their poor-boy image than by coming and rocking the MAC for a couple decades and gaining multilple NCAA berths in many sports as the MAC schools struggle to play catch-up."

Ego, I know. Ego and dick-size measuring.

W'ing in the MAC has to be better than L'ing in the Big12.

(09-06-2011 09:30 AM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  

(09-06-2011 08:52 AM)bigredmachine Wrote:  I've been going to NIU games for over 40 years. Check the USA Today database on college athletic budgets. NIU, at around 22 million in revenue is almost 15 million less than Iowa State. Have you been to any of these schools? Missouri and Kansas are Big Ten level programs. NIU would need a massive infusion of cash to upgrade facilities, working budgets, etc. to move up to any other conference. Flying to away games for all sports for instances would be a huge cost.
Having said the above, NIU's problem is that NIU fans see the MAC as below us. Fans want to be in a bigger conference, but they don't want to or can't spend the money that would mean. Even if donors show up to build a stadium, who would fill it? Let's win first. Let's win the MAC.
Lastly, even I fantasize about NIU sneaking into a bigger conference due to our proximity to Chicago and the TV sets it offers. I would love to move to a bigger conference. We need to realize that each of us needs to buy season tickets to football and basketball whether you go to games or not. NIU needs numbers and money. This is the smallest of costs but one that people see. We only sell 3500 or so season tickets. Louisville sells over 30,000. Basketball is worse. Buy tickets and give to the HASF. If enough of us do that, maybe a miracle will happen. If it doesn't, the program will still be stronger and we can win the MAC.

+1

Even if we went undefeated this year in FB and had an improved MBB season we would still be low on the list to be added to the B12. If they were to add us in this off season they would be adding us just to avoid extinction.

Adding Houston, SoMiss, Tulsa, NIU & one other school would risk the BCS-AQ status of the B12. That would make it more likely that the remaining schools (Kansas, K St, Mizzu, Iowa St & Baylor) would jump ship to the B1G, BE or even the MWC.

So they are worried about losing BCS-AQ and they would jump to the MWC who doesn't have BCS-AQ - yeah that makes a lot of sense.

Bigred.. 9 or 10 of that 15 million difference between Iowa State would instantly be made up from TV revenue. The annual finance gap between the worst BCS teams isn't that dramatic when you factor in new revenue. There are other much bigger issues.

(09-06-2011 10:04 AM)RedShark27 Wrote:  

(09-06-2011 09:30 AM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  

(09-06-2011 08:52 AM)bigredmachine Wrote:  I've been going to NIU games for over 40 years. Check the USA Today database on college athletic budgets. NIU, at around 22 million in revenue is almost 15 million less than Iowa State. Have you been to any of these schools? Missouri and Kansas are Big Ten level programs. NIU would need a massive infusion of cash to upgrade facilities, working budgets, etc. to move up to any other conference. Flying to away games for all sports for instances would be a huge cost.
Having said the above, NIU's problem is that NIU fans see the MAC as below us. Fans want to be in a bigger conference, but they don't want to or can't spend the money that would mean. Even if donors show up to build a stadium, who would fill it? Let's win first. Let's win the MAC.
Lastly, even I fantasize about NIU sneaking into a bigger conference due to our proximity to Chicago and the TV sets it offers. I would love to move to a bigger conference. We need to realize that each of us needs to buy season tickets to football and basketball whether you go to games or not. NIU needs numbers and money. This is the smallest of costs but one that people see. We only sell 3500 or so season tickets. Louisville sells over 30,000. Basketball is worse. Buy tickets and give to the HASF. If enough of us do that, maybe a miracle will happen. If it doesn't, the program will still be stronger and we can win the MAC.

+1

Even if we went undefeated this year in FB and had an improved MBB season we would still be low on the list to be added to the B12. If they were to add us in this off season they would be adding us just to avoid extinction.

Adding Houston, SoMiss, Tulsa, NIU & one other school would risk the BCS-AQ status of the B12. That would make it more likely that the remaining schools (Kansas, K St, Mizzu, Iowa St & Baylor) would jump ship to the B1G, BE or even the MWC.

So they are worried about losing BCS-AQ and they would jump to the MWC who doesn't have BCS-AQ - yeah that makes a lot of sense.

I did not word it the best way...


The MWC option would be for any remaining team/s that would not be invited into the B1G or BE after the other 4 leave for the PAC16. If 2 more teams leave for the B1G or BE then that will force the rest to jump ship and landing in the MWC is better than the MAC.

So lets say...
Kansas and Mizzu get a B1G invite and Baylor gets a BE invite so they can be in the same conference as rival TCU.

Then K St and Iowa St are left without an invite to an AQ conference but I am sure the MWC would take them. The MWC is close to getting an AQ birth so they would settle if no other AQ options are open.

I hope NIU doesn't get left in the dust.

Even FIU in Miami is looking to move somewhere, and is making the investment in remodeling its stadium:

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/fiusports/

If NIU fails to invest in facilities, we'll be lucky to remain as even a "mid-major".

(09-06-2011 08:52 AM)bigredmachine Wrote:  I've been going to NIU games for over 40 years. Check the USA Today database on college athletic budgets. NIU, at around 22 million in revenue is almost 15 million less than Iowa State. Have you been to any of these schools? Missouri and Kansas are Big Ten level programs. NIU would need a massive infusion of cash to upgrade facilities, working budgets, etc. to move up to any other conference. Flying to away games for all sports for instances would be a huge cost.
Having said the above, NIU's problem is that NIU fans see the MAC as below us. Fans want to be in a bigger conference, but they don't want to or can't spend the money that would mean. Even if donors show up to build a stadium, who would fill it? Let's win first. Let's win the MAC.
Lastly, even I fantasize about NIU sneaking into a bigger conference due to our proximity to Chicago and the TV sets it offers. I would love to move to a bigger conference. We need to realize that each of us needs to buy season tickets to football and basketball whether you go to games or not. NIU needs numbers and money. This is the smallest of costs but one that people see. We only sell 3500 or so season tickets. Louisville sells over 30,000. Basketball is worse. Buy tickets and give to the HASF. If enough of us do that, maybe a miracle will happen. If it doesn't, the program will still be stronger and we can win the MAC.

The Big 12 is not going to be the same conference as it has always been though. The big boys are leaving. I think NIU would fit nicely into a conference with teams like Iowa State, Baylor, etc. The one certainty in all of this, is the MAC will dissolve eventually. The question is do we go into a trimmed down and smaller sized Big 12, or go down to FCS.

Hasn't the MAC been around for forever? What makes you think all of a sudden it's going to dissolve?

NIU is NOT moving conferences, period. The financial disparity that exists between current Big 12 member schools (to include the Iowa State example noted previous) is very wide. Hell, the financial gulf that exists between a Florida International and any MAC school in terms of athletics / football is HUGE. Look at the investment in facilities as but one example. And this is where it all starts and finishes.

It's always the newbies that scream NIU should move conferences. Its fun and all to make statements of the blindingly obvious, or to get all puffy chested and think you are the first person on this planet who ever had the clarity of vision to say all the "simple" things NIU has to do in order to graduate up to a big conference. Who is going to fund your grandiose vision? Do you REALLY think this is the first time such topic has come up? How do you align YOUR vision for NIU football with that of the university community and administration, where it is widely known John Peters too often stands alone in being an unabashed supporter of NIU athletics?

The MAC is the absoute highest and best conference home for NIU. It's not even debatable. You can bet the ranch that is the perspective of John Peters, Jeff Compher and their counterparts across the conference.

The MAC sinks or swims as a collective unit (excluding Temple). It's just that simple. If the mid-majors are destined to be drummed out of FBS football, then NIU is going along for that ride and there ain't a damned thing realistic we can do about it. There are very few mid-majors who will survive a new tiering of college football that is bound to come within the next two years. Personally, I don't care because mid-major football shall have a WONDERFUL opportunity to carve out it's own distinct brand of football complete with playoff system. Its insane to pretend to compete against the football factories and BCS conferences with their multi-millions and all the advantages. Screw em'. NIU will be JUST fine.

(09-06-2011 11:08 AM)WhiskeyDick Wrote:  NIU is NOT moving conferences, period. The financial disparity that exists between current Big 12 member schools (to include the Iowa State example noted previous) is very wide. Hell, the financial gulf that exists between a Florida International and any MAC school in terms of athletics / football is HUGE. Look at the investment in facilities as but one example. And this is where it all starts and finishes.

It's always the newbies that scream NIU should move conferences. Its fun and all to make statements of the blindingly obvious, or to get all puffy chested and think you are the first person on this planet who ever had the clarity of vision to say all the "simple" things NIU has to do in order to graduate up to a big conference. Who is going to fund your grandiose vision? Do you REALLY think this is the first time such topic has come up? How do you align YOUR vision for NIU football with that of the university community and administration, where it is widely known John Peters too often stands alone in being an unabashed supporter of NIU athletics?

The MAC is the absoute highest and best conference home for NIU. It's not even debatable. You can bet the ranch that is the perspective of John Peters, Jeff Compher and their counterparts across the conference.

The MAC sinks or swims as a collective unit (excluding Temple). It's just that simple. If the mid-majors are destined to be drummed out of FBS football, then NIU is going along for that ride and there ain't a damned thing realistic we can do about it. There are very few mid-majors who will survive a new tiering of college football that is bound to come within the next two years. Personally, I don't care because mid-major football shall have a WONDERFUL opportunity to carve out it's own distinct brand of football complete with playoff system. Its insane to pretend to compete against the football factories and BCS conferences with their multi-millions and all the advantages. Screw em'. NIU will be JUST fine.

As it stands, the MAC is the best place. Things are changing though, and who knows what might happen. Still, can't argue - I don't see any place we'd be likely to go. I think we'd do all right in the CUSA but we don't fit geographically.

I'll dream the dream for a few minutes...

If with all of shifting of Big 12 teams (A&M, TU, TTU, OK, OKST) and there is 5 teams left: Baylor, Iowa St., Kansas, Kansas St., Mizzu there are a few possibilities of what would likely occur, most we probably have heard:

1. Big East comes in and takes them all/some. To me this does not make too much sense. BE is so strong in basketball as it is plus the membership is at 16 currently, going to 17 with TCU. Going up to 19, 20, 22 teams? Wont happen. Only way this has a high probabiliy chance is the non-football schools break off (as rumored now and again). % chance of occurring 10%

2. Merger with MWest. Geographically an ok fit. An easy alternative, would likely keep AQ status. Though I'm sure Kansas and Mizzu would not be thrilled. % chance of occurring 25%

3. Big 12 remains intact and recruits schools to form a revamped Big 12, possibly going back to the Big 8? 8, 10, 12 teams in the conference. 65% chance of occurring.
I think this is more realistic. With the 5 Big 12 teams as the base you look towards TCU & Boise to start. From there probably BYU, though BYU may be highly comfortable with their independent status. Lastly you look at a few additional Mwest, CUSA, & a certain MAC school. From MWest Colorado st., Air Force, Wyoming. From CUSA mostly the tx schools, Rice, SMU, Houston, Tulsa, Tulane, Memphis. And lastly NIU. What NIU has going for it is the market. 3rd largest in the country. If the big 12 wants to take a chance, mature into the market and possibly cut into B10 $$$, NIU has a shot. Remote but a shot. If the Big 12 is looking for more established names, no chance. Additionally NIU's only shot as well is if they would go to 12 teams. They do an 8 or 10 team conference, a no go. Lastly schools like TCU/BYU would have to take a pass

Potential 12 team conference:
Kansas, Kstate, Mizzu, Baylor, Iowa St., TCU, Boise, BYU, SMU, Houston, AF, CSU
You would have the Dallas & Houston markets, colorado & a "national team" in byu.
Potential 12 team conf. if TCU/BYU take a pass:
Kansas, Kstate, Mizzu, Baylor, Iowa St., Boise, SMU, Houston, AF, CSU, NIU, Memphis/Tulane/Wyoming.
Three teams in texas, colorado and enter chicago market.

Anyway dreaming the dream.

While not backed with any emperical evidence, I have a feeling that Boise's long term football success is anything but certain.

And if they go bad in football, whatever conference took them in on their prior exploits and future potential of the football program at the expense of what Boise State really is, will be shaking their head and asking "What have we done."

Is BSU a flash in the pan? I don't think so. But does it have long term viability in a major conference?

Probably not so much.

(09-06-2011 04:09 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  While not backed with any emperical evidence, I have a feeling that Boise's long term football success is anything but certain.

And if they go bad in football, whatever conference took them in on their prior exploits and future potential of the football program at the expense of what Boise State really is, will be shaking their head and asking "What have we done."

Is BSU a flash in the pan? I don't think so. But does it have long term viability in a major conference?

Probably not so much.

One bad season and the Boise St fans will question spending $1378-$1678 on 2 adult season tickets between the 30s.

One bad season and the NIU fans have shown they are willing to spend another $188-$499 for 2 adult season tickets between the 30s.

(09-06-2011 11:08 AM)WhiskeyDick Wrote:  NIU is NOT moving conferences, period. The financial disparity that exists between current Big 12 member schools (to include the Iowa State example noted previous) is very wide. Hell, the financial gulf that exists between a Florida International and any MAC school in terms of athletics / football is HUGE. Look at the investment in facilities as but one example. And this is where it all starts and finishes.

It's always the newbies that scream NIU should move conferences. Its fun and all to make statements of the blindingly obvious, or to get all puffy chested and think you are the first person on this planet who ever had the clarity of vision to say all the "simple" things NIU has to do in order to graduate up to a big conference. Who is going to fund your grandiose vision? Do you REALLY think this is the first time such topic has come up? How do you align YOUR vision for NIU football with that of the university community and administration, where it is widely known John Peters too often stands alone in being an unabashed supporter of NIU athletics?

The MAC is the absoute highest and best conference home for NIU. It's not even debatable. You can bet the ranch that is the perspective of John Peters, Jeff Compher and their counterparts across the conference.

The MAC sinks or swims as a collective unit (excluding Temple). It's just that simple. If the mid-majors are destined to be drummed out of FBS football, then NIU is going along for that ride and there ain't a damned thing realistic we can do about it. There are very few mid-majors who will survive a new tiering of college football that is bound to come within the next two years. Personally, I don't care because mid-major football shall have a WONDERFUL opportunity to carve out it's own distinct brand of football complete with playoff system. Its insane to pretend to compete against the football factories and BCS conferences with their multi-millions and all the advantages. Screw em'. NIU will be JUST fine.

Moron.

(09-06-2011 10:55 AM)7 Wrote:  Hasn't the MAC been around for forever? What makes you think all of a sudden it's going to dissolve?

When this conference shakeup is done, the MAC will be left out. The attendance at some of these MAC schools is incredibly bad, and I think some schools like EMU and Kent state may drop football all together. My hope is that a few of the better MAC schools like Miami-OH, Toledo, NIU, Western Michigan, Ohio will be able to latch onto another conference.

(09-06-2011 11:08 AM)WhiskeyDick Wrote:  NIU is NOT moving conferences, period. The financial disparity that exists between current Big 12 member schools (to include the Iowa State example noted previous) is very wide. Hell, the financial gulf that exists between a Florida International and any MAC school in terms of athletics / football is HUGE. Look at the investment in facilities as but one example. And this is where it all starts and finishes.

It's always the newbies that scream NIU should move conferences. Its fun and all to make statements of the blindingly obvious, or to get all puffy chested and think you are the first person on this planet who ever had the clarity of vision to say all the "simple" things NIU has to do in order to graduate up to a big conference. Who is going to fund your grandiose vision? Do you REALLY think this is the first time such topic has come up? How do you align YOUR vision for NIU football with that of the university community and administration, where it is widely known John Peters too often stands alone in being an unabashed supporter of NIU athletics?

The MAC is the absoute highest and best conference home for NIU. It's not even debatable. You can bet the ranch that is the perspective of John Peters, Jeff Compher and their counterparts across the conference.

The MAC sinks or swims as a collective unit (excluding Temple). It's just that simple. If the mid-majors are destined to be drummed out of FBS football, then NIU is going along for that ride and there ain't a damned thing realistic we can do about it. There are very few mid-majors who will survive a new tiering of college football that is bound to come within the next two years. Personally, I don't care because mid-major football shall have a WONDERFUL opportunity to carve out it's own distinct brand of football complete with playoff system. Its insane to pretend to compete against the football factories and BCS conferences with their multi-millions and all the advantages. Screw em'. NIU will be JUST fine.

You can have your Illinois State/NIU yearly homecoming game, you might be the only one there. The rest of us want NIU football to succeed.

NIU shall live and die with the MAC. This conference isn't going to fragment. Chances are it gets "downgraded" to FCS status as the big conferences expunge the mid-majors. But so what. Only a fraction of the existing mid-majors have a chance to move up conferences. And not a single MAC team in my estimation.

The Big 12? Hell will freeze over before the remnants of that conference team up with a regional school without the financial teeth necessary to play in the BCS league. What is going to happen instead is that the Big 12 dissolves and Baylor, Kansas, etc. move to other conference destinations. All of the "leftovers" of the Big 12 are highly desireable basketball schools for any conference to add.

(09-06-2011 08:26 PM)WhiskeyDick Wrote:  NIU shall live and die with the MAC. This conference isn't going to fragment. Chances are it gets "downgraded" to FCS status as the big conferences expunge the mid-majors. But so what. Only a fraction of the existing mid-majors have a chance to move up conferences. And not a single MAC team in my estimation.

The Big 12? Hell will freeze over before the remnants of that conference team up with a regional school without the financial teeth necessary to play in the BCS league. What is going to happen instead is that the Big 12 dissolves and Baylor, Kansas, etc. move to other conference destinations. All of the "leftovers" of the Big 12 are highly desireable basketball schools for any conference to add.

So you are ok with the MAC going FCS but mad that we cannot show we belong on the big stage by not packing SOldier Field, would you take a frickin side, my god you are all over the map. If NIU went FCS, I would vote to shut down football and focus solely on becoming a basketball school. Noone would go to any games anymore. Luckily I dont think NIU will become extinct into the FCS, it wont happen. NIU will join one of the conferences, probably the Big 12 which will become a glorified CUSA/MAC type conference.

I love how WD continues to preach how we are married to the MAC and if the MAC/NIU goes FCS, that its ok.

Here is a dose of reality for WD. If the MAC/NIU went FCS NIU would leave the MAC before you could say Jack Robinson.

THE ONLY REASON NIU is in the MAC is due to FBS football. If NIU was "pushed" out of FBS, NIU would immediately go back to the Horizon, playing schools more local (UIC, Loyola, Butler, Wisc. Milwaukee, green bay, valpo, etc...) or ideally Mizzu Valley. FBS football IS the reason why we left the Horizon/old MCC and joined the MAC.

This school is committed to FBS football and if there is an opportunity to stay FBS, NIU will take it, MAC be dammed.