the other Greg Childers Wrote:Nice to know the thought police are out in full force telling us what we can and cannot see.

Glad to read that you're fighting the good fight for open discourse, Childers.

Does this mean you'll also be reading "Free to Choose," by Milton and Rose Friedman?

Right now, I'm finishing up "On a Pale Horse" by Piers Anthony.

Isn't it interesting the fires that are fanned when anything about Chirst is brought up?

Why are people so afraid of the Truth? Why do people fear the Light? And why does this world run from the Way?

marktheapostle Wrote:Isn't it interesting the fires that are fanned when anything about Chirst is brought up?

Why are people so afraid of the Truth? Why do people fear the Light? And why does this world run from the Way?

Don't you understand others look at their own way. You may need him and his way but it isn't for everyone. Religion is a something to help people make it through their lives. For others it may be something else. Your way is not my way. lol

marktheapostle Wrote:Isn't it interesting the fires that are fanned when anything about Chirst is brought up?

Why are people so afraid of the Truth? Why do people fear the Light? And why does this world run from the Way?

This is a thread about boycotting a movie, and people who want to go are afraid?

the other Greg Childers Wrote:Nice to know the thought police are out in full force telling us what we can and cannot see.

With all the controversy they've created, I REALLY want to see the movie now. Heck, without your help I might not have even KNOWN that the movie was out.

Thanks TTTGal!

yeah i would never have gone to see this movie, but i really am kind of anxious to go watch it after all the controversy

TigerFoosball Wrote:

the other Greg Childers Wrote:Nice to know the thought police are out in full force telling us what we can and cannot see.

With all the controversy they've created, I REALLY want to see the movie now. Heck, without your help I might not have even KNOWN that the movie was out.

Thanks TTTGal!

yeah i would never have gone to see this movie, but i really am kind of anxious to go watch it after all the controversy

I didn't know that there was any controversy. The sky isn't falling. It's a movie. That's all. It's not even a "blasphemous" movie at that. People have a right to produce their work, and the general public has a right to approve, disapprove or even ignore that work, based on their own criteria. No big news there....

He is an avid atheist, but Philip Pullman doesn't have an issue with Christians, he has an issue with the limits and bounds of Christianity set forth by the church and the use of religion to oppress.

TigerDrew Wrote:He is an avid atheist, but Philip Pullman doesn't have an issue with Christians, he has an issue with the limits and bounds of Christianity set forth by the church and the use of religion to oppress.

Thanks for providing some much-needed discussion of the nuancies of Mr. Pullman's agenda...it's refreshing to read a short post from someone who understands the difference between organized Religion (created by humanity) vs. a direct relationship with the Creator (created by God).

I plan on taking my kids to see it sometime this coming weekend. They are pumped.

Harry Potter On-Campus Symposium NOW...!!!

the other Greg Childers Wrote:

marktheapostle Wrote:Isn't it interesting the fires that are fanned when anything about Chirst is brought up?

Why are people so afraid of the Truth? Why do people fear the Light? And why does this world run from the Way?

This is a thread about boycotting a movie, and people who want to go are afraid?

Yes, I'm sure you already know this but since you asked, I'll answer your question.

Boycotting a movie has more to do with Christians trying to live the Christian lifestyle. Several here mock organized Christian religion, but when someone out of genuine compassion for other Christians posts information of interest to other Christians who desire to not only talk the the talk, but walk the walk, well, out come the scoffers and mockers. Maturing Christians recognize and understand, even expect it.

Yes, several here are afraid of surrendering their lives to the one who loves them, and died for them, and has the gift of eternal life in His nail scared hands. Neither, you, myself or anyone else here can save themselves. Jesus is the only way, and He is the truth and the life.

This thread has somewhat been hijacked from that of boycotting a movie, to passively aggressively besmirching Christians for their attempts to live a sanctified or set apart life and to teach their children how to do the same.

Jesus is the hope of the world. I wonder sometimes what some people teach their children to hope and trust in.

If you are strong in your faith, a movie shouldn't shake it.

Do you organize protests against all movies that advocate sinful behavior, or do single out ones for arbitrary reasons?

There's a very interesting article in The Atlantic this month about the making of the film. (The editors selected the curious title: "How Hollywood Saved God.")

Although the books are overt polemics against religion, New Line Cinema was clearly concerned about the subject matter. Now, you might ask why they even bought the movie rights to THIS movie if they're concerned about anti-religious overtones. In any case, New Line took a couple years to get a script they liked (even Tom Stoppard wrote a version that they thought was "too wordy,") and eventually came up with something like "Harry Potter Takes on the Nazis, Who Occasionally Sport Byzantine Icons."

You might also think that Pullman is incensed with the change in the tone of his story, but he seems fine with it.

When asked about pressure to remove the anti-religous overtones from the film, most actors have played dumb -- or maybe they weren't playing. Eva Green described the film as "highly spiritual," which only sounds remotely intelligent because she's French.

UMTigerfan Wrote:

TigerChick Wrote:It's a freakin movie, fake, fantasy, make believe. Will not change me, what I believe or who I am in any way.

true, but you are not 10 years old.

Is it better than indoctrinating a ten-year-old into a religion?

MemphisTigerPawr Wrote:Thanks TTTGal. I was unaware of this. I appreciate your word of warning. You have as much right to post this as anyone does anything here, and I appreciate you doing so.

I'm not much into religion, I'm into Jesus Christ, better yet, He is alive and dwelling within me. His Word is nourishment to my soul.

To anyone reading this thread, a Word of warning from The LORD, who cannot lie, and a promise to His faithful.

"Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of ,that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen." (II Peter 3)

But man can lie. And man put those words onto paper. And man is empowered over and exploits the spiritual vulnerability of his fellow man by those words (not just those words but any organized religion). So I see those words as fallible men's interpretation/translation of God's message.

HHammerhead Wrote:I guess you've decided to make this a discussion of the Bible. It started off as a pointed critique of a movie that hasn't been released yet. No one's bashing Pullman's atheism. Speaking for myself, I am criticizing Pullman's desire to tear down the Christian faith. He's putting his destructive opinions out there, so others on the receiving end of his vitriol are taking the opportunity to criticize his work.

So TigerTommy, you march out a bunch of contextual anomalies in the Old Testament. That's a very often used argument. I'm sure you're looking for a heated argument. You're probably not interested in a rational response but here's my take on your approach...

The writing, editing and compilation of the Bible was inspired by God. Still, the Bible was written by humans, edited by humans and compiled by humans. The writing of the Bible is limited by culture, customs and world view. Jesus' speech and works helps us decipher the Old Testament. As discriminating individuals, we can analyze the context of the writings in the Old Testament and understand that the cultural or personal experience of the writer could cloud the message that God conveys through the writer. Jesus' message was more simple and could be summed up in two commandments: Love God. Love one another.

The ultimate authority of the Bible rests in God.

You don't have to agree with me, but insults aren't necessary.

I think this is a rational view of any religion. However, I also think this contradicts the view and purpose of 99% of organized churches.

kabluey Wrote:

UMTigerfan Wrote:

TigerChick Wrote:It's a freakin movie, fake, fantasy, make believe. Will not change me, what I believe or who I am in any way.

true, but you are not 10 years old.

Is it better than indoctrinating a ten-year-old into a religion?

If it's your ten-year-old, you're not "indoctrinating", you're raising your child with your values, hopefully. Are there some wackos out there? Absolutely. Atheistic wackos and Christian wackos. If you have children, you understand the importance of giving your child a moral compass. If "anything goes" is what they learn, you'll have a rudderless adult on your hands in a few years. Religion itself is not bad. The way some people use religion is deplorable.

I know a number of people who just can't stomach organized religion. That's fine with me. A person's relationship with the Creator is between them and their God. I will happily witness to my faith. I will encourage others to explore their spirituality and embrace it fully in a way that suits them. Don't take this as pompous, but each individual will reap what they sow. If there was nothing else to believe in, I certainly would believe in the concept of Karma.

bubbapt Wrote:

GermantownTiger Wrote:

HHammerhead Wrote:As I understand the books by Pullman, the third book in the series concludes with the child protagonists "killing God" and freeing themselves to be better people. I wonder how the producers of the subsequent movies (if there are any) are going to handle that....

The one glaring and simple weakness in this predicament of "killing God" is this...how can you kill the one true God who has no beginning or end? The answer is equally simple...you can't.

While I understand and respect any Christian who wishes to boycott a movie based on the faith (or lack thereof) of a particular writer, director, actor, etc., I think it goes without saying that there're hardly ANY people in Hollywood who practice Christian values when producing a movie (perhaps Mel Gibson is an exception here).

That's why this movie is harmless to any practicing person of faith...the logic (killing God) behind it is faulty. Just sit back, relax and enjoy the movie for what it is...a little escapist fantasy.

If you choose not to see it because you dislike the fact that the writer is an avowed Atheist, then so be it.

Good point. Intellectually, the notion of killing God, or even God-hating, is a lazy argument. Dismissing religion (not spirituality, but the actual formal organizations humans make) without understanding its value to human development is also pretty short-sighted, but sadly part of the larger American pop culture.

Arguing over the nature and/or existence of God is a pretty well established area of metaphysics, however, and would seem to me to be an appropriate part of any education.

It beats having 11th graders who still can't diagram a sentence.

I agree. There should be a difference between dismissing the value of religion in the emergence and evolution of society and dismissing its general credibility.

Religions, polytheistic, monotheistic, whatever, have helped infuse a structure, organization, as well as a sense of community to society particularly at times when they needed it the most. But in the path of every religion lay the destroyed, the massacred, the gory mess that appears to be inherent in the conduct of every centralized structure of man. A religion is not defined, nor is it characterized by, the god it deems to represent. It is defined by man. To criticize a religion or a church is not so much a criticism of the god, it is a criticism of the men who either 1) created it, and/or 2) claim to represent it. And no religion is above such criticism, for they each have enriched themselves by exploiting others. There's even been a taint (although to a lesser extent) within the Buddhist religion, one of the most peaceful and non-centralized of the major religions.

I don't believe, personally, that it is ethical to indoctrinate a child into any of these groups. It can lead to an imprisonment of the will into an organization that knows it has emotional leverage on its side to exploit.

kabluey Wrote:

MemphisTigerPawr Wrote:Thanks TTTGal. I was unaware of this. I appreciate your word of warning. You have as much right to post this as anyone does anything here, and I appreciate you doing so.

I'm not much into religion, I'm into Jesus Christ, better yet, He is alive and dwelling within me. His Word is nourishment to my soul.

To anyone reading this thread, a Word of warning from The LORD, who cannot lie, and a promise to His faithful.

"Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of ,that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen." (II Peter 3)

But man can lie. And man put those words onto paper. And man is empowered over and exploits the spiritual vulnerability of his fellow man by those words (not just those words but any organized religion). So I see those words as fallible men's interpretation/translation of God's message.

Well, I agree man can lie, and that in many cases organized religion has exploited its own adherants. (Thats because it is oftentimes controlled by man and his will and not God or His WORD) The Bible says man is desperately wicked. There is none righteous no not one. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. We needed a savior, a redeemer, a substitute because "The wages of sin is death"

Bottom line, either you believe the Bible is The Word of God, or you do not. Jesus referred constantly to "the scriptures". He didn't have in His possession original manuscripts, but rather copies of the original, which has existed from all of eternity and will never cease to exist.

Man put the "WORD" on paper, but if you read it, you will find concerning these men, they were divinely appointed by God to write down His WORD. It will say something like, "And the WORD of The LORD came unto".

Jehovah God told Moses to write it in a book. He told Isaiah to note it in a book. He told Jeremiah to write it in a book. He told John in Revelation 1:11 to "write it in a book." Well, you get the point.

The Bible says that God cannot lie (Titus 1:2) The psalmist declared in Psalm 119:89 Forever O LORD, thy WORD is settled in heaven. Jesus is quoted 3 times in the gospels as saying Heaven and earth shall pass away but my words shall never pass away.

By the way, it is this same "WORD" that will one day judge all the lost. In John 12:48 Jesus plainly states.."He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. "

You see, Gods WORD is incorruptible. In the beginning, was "the WORD" The WORD was made flesh in the form of Jesus upon this earth. Now we may reject Gods WORD, and Jesus Christ, but to do so is to condemn ourself.

That any of us are alive today and free to reject Jesus bears witness to the fact that God is patient and long suffering, and not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

In II Timothy 3:16 we learn this truth, "All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God". Now either God has the power to preserve His WORD or He doesn't. Either His WORD is true or it isn't. Man or Satan cannot destroy what GOD has decreed from before the foundations of this earth.

Satan tried this same trick in the garden of Eden, when he subtly asked the question, "Yea, hath God said?" Satan hasn't changed his method of deceiving people much.

Those who would throw the baby out with the bath water so to speak do so to their own eternal detriment. There is none other name given among men whereby we must be saved. Jesus is the only way.

That man/religion of man has crept into true Christianity is well documented in scripture, see any passage concerning the wheat and the tares, or chaff. You can also read about the sheep and the goats.

Be not deceived, God is not mocked, for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. God is a discerner of the thoughts and the intents of the heart. You may say well, its only a movie. Perhaps, but we are at war with spiritual "principalities and powers".

In my heart, I do not want to buy a ticket to a movie, any movie and possibly support something that may deceive souls into believing the original lie of Satan.

Yes God hath said it. That settles it. Whether you or I believe it or accept it, doesn't change the fact that His WORD shall never perish.

My trust is not in man, but in God and the promises contained within His WORD.