GermantownTiger Wrote:

tigertommy Wrote:The saddest/funniest thing is if your children have a strong faith in god what harm is it going to do if they are exposed to other thoughts or beliefs? I may be an atheist but I have no problem with my children being exposed to god or allah. Now that scientology or mormon crapola is a whole nother story.

While I'm no proponent of Mormonism per say, I'd definitely put it well above the Muslim religion...any religion that doesn't actively disavow the whole suicide-bombing-to-spend-eternity-with-72-virgins thing can't possibly be a religion of peace.

Scientology is nothing but an organized cult...no religion happening with those practitioners.

The problem with the mormon cultist is that their entire belief system is based on a book Joseph Smith pretty much stole from another guy. Once you realize that fact shouldn't it kind of make you realize your religion is a bunch of BS. It really isn't anything but scientology of the early 1800s. I just hope like hell that scientology isn't as well thought of in 75 years as mormons are.

Tigerx3 Wrote:The saddest/funniest thing is if your children have a strong faith in god what harm is it going to do if they are exposed to other thoughts or beliefs? I may be an atheist but I have no problem with my children being exposed to god or allah. Now that scientology or mormon crapola is a whole nother story.

The perspective is completely different for Christians, Tommy. The central focus of all that we believe is God (not god). My 20 year-old makes his own choices now. I hope and pray he still asks my advice and certainly embraces what we have taught him but I have provided all of the formal training and protection that he will get as he makes the transition into manhood. My soon to be 13 year old does not have that option. He is not mature enough to sort through all of the information and images that seems to come at them faster and earlier in life.

It doesn't mean that we don't make mistakes. We do. It just means that our frame of ref. for everything is different. The theme of the movie attacks the core of that belief system. I am not threatened by it. I just turn on the filter where my children are concerned.

You profess to be an atheist and faith issues have no bearing on the parameters you set. No God to you means the theme of the movie is just fantasy.
[/quote]

Your parents probably took away your albums because someone told them there were hidden messages if you played the record backwards. lol

I don't make fun of your lack of faith.

It is sad you make fun of the fact that I base my life on faith. I shared our perspective. Do with it what you will.

RandyMc Wrote:

Derby Wrote:I prefer to think for myself and determine what is and isn't against Christianity on my own thank you.

But do you have to do it in a vacuum? I see nothing wrong with "warnings" any more than other movie reviews. It allows you go into the thing with your eyes open and allows you to think about it and maybe even see it before your child views it. You can then decide if it is appropriate as measured by your own standards.

A warning is not a movie review. She admits she hasn't seen it. How can someone review something they haven't even seen? How can someone warn me on something in which they have no first hand knowledge of? How can someone go "into" something with their eyes open if they have been preconditioned? They can't. But this situation is not unique by any means.

The original poster stated her opinion solely on the word of someone else. She obviously trusts and respects someone else's opinion. Fair enough, she can make her own determinations on whom to trust and on whom to respect. I'm not questioning her intent, I'm sure it was honorable.

Ignorance and intolerance masquerading as organized religious intelligence is a dangerous thing.

Derby Wrote:A warning is not a movie review. She admits she hasn't seen it. How can someone review something they haven't even seen? How can someone warn me on something in which they have no first hand knowledge of? How can someone go "into" something with their eyes open if they have been preconditioned? They can't. But this situation is not unique by any means.

The original poster stated her opinion solely on the word of someone else. She obviously trusts and respects someone else's opinion. Fair enough, she can make her own determinations on whom to trust and on whom to respect. I'm not questioning her intent, I'm sure it was honorable.

Ignorance and intolerance masquerading as organized religious intelligence is a dangerous thing.

Not all Christians think alike, not by a long shot. I wouldn't begrudge you for going to see the movie, whether it was because you were just curious, whether you enjoy fantasy flicks (I do...) or whether you just want to "stick it to the Christians". (Not making a judgement on your personal faith here....)

If I wanted to truly educate myself on Pullman's views, I would borrow the three-book series from the library and read it myself. I just don't have the interest to do that. So... I'm not saying that the movie is evil, captured on film. The Golden Compass is probably an escapist little fantasy pleasure. However, from what I know about the author and his agenda to popularize an anti-God movement, I can't support his endeavors. Now I realize that I may be overstating the agenda a bit, but the little bit I know about the man and his work tells me that he actively lives and promotes Atheism. The book series advances his agenda on "unsuspecting" children. If the movie blossoms into a series covering all three books, his agenda will be brought to life on film and mass-marketed. Personally, I will not support that.

I think you're right in assuming that the original poster was well intended. I also agree with you in many points. There are many Christians who will go see this movie. The point of the post was to "warn" Christians of the agenda they were supporting. The "Golden Compass warning" is really a Christian zealot chain letter. It would be well received in many Christian households, guardedly considered in others, and tossed aside in some Christian households.

Here on the MT.org forum, where you have people of many backgrounds, it has sparked a good debate. Do we have to agree? Of course not. At the least, it's a good intellectual exercise.

Derby Wrote:A warning is not a movie review. She admits she hasn't seen it. How can someone review something they haven't even seen? How can someone warn me on something in which they have no first hand knowledge of? How can someone go "into" something with their eyes open if they have been preconditioned? They can't. But this situation is not unique by any means.

The original poster stated her opinion solely on the word of someone else. She obviously trusts and respects someone else's opinion. Fair enough, she can make her own determinations on whom to trust and on whom to respect. I'm not questioning her intent, I'm sure it was honorable.

Ignorance and intolerance masquerading as organized religious intelligence is a dangerous thing.

It is not unusual to rely upon the judgment of others. A respected authority is useful in such matters. The original poster passed on some information that she believes comes from a respected source. If others do not respect that source, they can differentiate the alternatives.

I have never gone to Europe. Before I go, I will ask others who have been and read reference material to educate me on places that might be of interest. I will then decide if I want to go to Paris, Rome, Madrid, Geneva or elsewhere based upon the most credible resources or I may defy the "warnings" and go to other places that seem more interesting to me.

That is all I am saying.

RandyMc Wrote:

Derby Wrote:A warning is not a movie review. She admits she hasn't seen it. How can someone review something they haven't even seen? How can someone warn me on something in which they have no first hand knowledge of? How can someone go "into" something with their eyes open if they have been preconditioned? They can't. But this situation is not unique by any means.

The original poster stated her opinion solely on the word of someone else. She obviously trusts and respects someone else's opinion. Fair enough, she can make her own determinations on whom to trust and on whom to respect. I'm not questioning her intent, I'm sure it was honorable.

Ignorance and intolerance masquerading as organized religious intelligence is a dangerous thing.

It is not unusual to rely upon the judgment of others. A respected authority is useful in such matters. The original poster passed on some information that she believes comes from a respected source. If others do not respect that source, they can differentiate the alternatives.

I have never gone to Europe. Before I go, I will ask others who have been and read reference material to educate me on places that might be of interest. I will then decide if I want to go to Paris, Rome, Madrid, Geneva or elsewhere based upon the most credible resources or I may defy the "warnings" and go to other places that seem more interesting to me.

That is all I am saying.

Then call me before you head to Europe. I've never been but I know people who have been and I'll pass along any info I can give. Here is some.....
Get ready to get drunk and laid in Ireland.
Get ready to eat sh!t in England. Oh, good drink there too.
Take nose clips and soap to France.
Eat and drink and get laid in Germany.
There you go. Now spread it around to message boards. lol

Derby Wrote:

RandyMc Wrote:

Derby Wrote:I prefer to think for myself and determine what is and isn't against Christianity on my own thank you.

But do you have to do it in a vacuum? I see nothing wrong with "warnings" any more than other movie reviews. It allows you go into the thing with your eyes open and allows you to think about it and maybe even see it before your child views it. You can then decide if it is appropriate as measured by your own standards.

A warning is not a movie review. She admits she hasn't seen it. How can someone review something they haven't even seen? How can someone warn me on something in which they have no first hand knowledge of? How can someone go "into" something with their eyes open if they have been preconditioned? They can't. But this situation is not unique by any means.

The original poster stated her opinion solely on the word of someone else. She obviously trusts and respects someone else's opinion. Fair enough, she can make her own determinations on whom to trust and on whom to respect. I'm not questioning her intent, I'm sure it was honorable.

Ignorance and intolerance masquerading as organized religious intelligence is a dangerous thing.

Very good points. It reminds me of Last Temptation of Christ. Before it even came out people were bent over backwards screaming about it. Had they seen it? Of course not. I saw it the first night and found it very moving. Much better to view Christ as more human than god so that his trials and decisions and reactions were closer to our own. If you already know you are going to live forever, never tasted the joys of being a real man and knew what was going to happen in the future, getting on the cross kind of loses it's impact. Oh well, enough religion for me...

GermantownTiger Wrote:

HHammerhead Wrote:As I understand the books by Pullman, the third book in the series concludes with the child protagonists "killing God" and freeing themselves to be better people. I wonder how the producers of the subsequent movies (if there are any) are going to handle that....

The one glaring and simple weakness in this predicament of "killing God" is this...how can you kill the one true God who has no beginning or end? The answer is equally simple...you can't.

While I understand and respect any Christian who wishes to boycott a movie based on the faith (or lack thereof) of a particular writer, director, actor, etc., I think it goes without saying that there're hardly ANY people in Hollywood who practice Christian values when producing a movie (perhaps Mel Gibson is an exception here).

That's why this movie is harmless to any practicing person of faith...the logic (killing God) behind it is faulty. Just sit back, relax and enjoy the movie for what it is...a little escapist fantasy.

If you choose not to see it because you dislike the fact that the writer is an avowed Atheist, then so be it.

Good point. Intellectually, the notion of killing God, or even God-hating, is a lazy argument. Dismissing religion (not spirituality, but the actual formal organizations humans make) without understanding its value to human development is also pretty short-sighted, but sadly part of the larger American pop culture.

Arguing over the nature and/or existence of God is a pretty well established area of metaphysics, however, and would seem to me to be an appropriate part of any education.

It beats having 11th graders who still can't diagram a sentence.

fsquid Wrote:I do not want your Catholism anywhere near me or my child. Thank you for not sharing it on this board.

I'm with this guy, remember when you could buy forgiveness from God at your local catholic church, how about when Catholics would torture and kill people if they wouldn't convert.

TigerFoosball Wrote:

fsquid Wrote:I do not want your Catholism anywhere near me or my child. Thank you for not sharing it on this board.

I'm with this guy, remember when you could buy forgiveness from God at your local catholic church, how about when Catholics would torture and kill people if they wouldn't convert.

Catholic zealots are not unique in suffering from intolerance.

The point is that they are not perfect, and they've done some pretty crazy things, somethings that I wouldn't want my young kids to know about, if my young kids found out about the inquisition (and lots of other stuff, priest, crusades, Mortaro affair, could go on and on) they'd probably have a warped idea of Christianity, so if people want to boycott this movie because it goes against the teachings of God or Christ, really research your religion, I'd be interested to know what you found out or if you views changed a little bit.

tigertommy Wrote:Get ready to get drunk and laid in Ireland.
Get ready to eat sh!t in England. Oh, good drink there too.
Take nose clips and soap to France.
Eat and drink and get laid in Germany.

So Irish and German chicks are easy?

I was always kind of partial to Italians and Greeks.

Darn.

RandyMc Wrote:

tigertommy Wrote:Get ready to get drunk and laid in Ireland.
Get ready to eat sh!t in England. Oh, good drink there too.
Take nose clips and soap to France.
Eat and drink and get laid in Germany.

So Irish and German chicks are easy?

I was always kind of partial to Italians and Greeks.

Darn.

It could be that the people I know who went to Europe favored fair skinned large bossomed women?? lol

TigerFoosball Wrote:The point is that they are not perfect, and they've done some pretty crazy things, somethings that I wouldn't want my young kids to know about, if my young kids found out about the inquisition (and lots of other stuff, priest, crusades, Mortaro affair, could go on and on) they'd probably have a warped idea of Christianity, so if people want to boycott this movie because it goes against the teachings of God or Christ, really research your religion, I'd be interested to know what you found out or if you views changed a little bit.

There have been massive injustices inacted in the name of religion. But mistakes and even crimes by man under the banner of God doesn't change our responsibility to our children. There are many things I do not allow my kids to watch. For now this is one of them.

I generally take a fairly liberal view about fantasy. Most of it is harmless. But this is a case where the author is very upfront in stating his purpose. I don't think he wrote the books to sell them to Christians. The watered down version Hollywood is selling only masks the mission of the author.

Go if you like but I fail to see why people are concerned if some of us choose not to go.

Tigerx3 Wrote:

TigerFoosball Wrote:The point is that they are not perfect, and they've done some pretty crazy things, somethings that I wouldn't want my young kids to know about, if my young kids found out about the inquisition (and lots of other stuff, priest, crusades, Mortaro affair, could go on and on) they'd probably have a warped idea of Christianity, so if people want to boycott this movie because it goes against the teachings of God or Christ, really research your religion, I'd be interested to know what you found out or if you views changed a little bit.

There have been massive injustices inacted in the name of religion. But mistakes and even crimes by man under the banner of God doesn't change our responsibility to our children. There are many things I do not allow my kids to watch. For now this is one of them.

I generally take a fairly liberal view about fantasy. Most of it is harmless. But this is a case where the author is very upfront in stating his purpose. I don't think he wrote the books to sell them to Christians. The watered down version Hollywood is selling only masks the mission of the author.

Go if you like but I fail to see why people are concerned if some of us choose not to go.

Thats cool man, I felt the opposite though, like people are concerned about other people going to see it. I have no problem with people not wanting to go see it because of their faith belief, whatever, I try not to watch any R rated movies. But I hate when people start these stupid boycotts and preach.

Tigerx3 Wrote:

TigerFoosball Wrote:The point is that they are not perfect, and they've done some pretty crazy things, somethings that I wouldn't want my young kids to know about, if my young kids found out about the inquisition (and lots of other stuff, priest, crusades, Mortaro affair, could go on and on) they'd probably have a warped idea of Christianity, so if people want to boycott this movie because it goes against the teachings of God or Christ, really research your religion, I'd be interested to know what you found out or if you views changed a little bit.

There have been massive injustices inacted in the name of religion. But mistakes and even crimes by man under the banner of God doesn't change our responsibility to our children. There are many things I do not allow my kids to watch. For now this is one of them.

I generally take a fairly liberal view about fantasy. Most of it is harmless. But this is a case where the author is very upfront in stating his purpose. I don't think he wrote the books to sell them to Christians. The watered down version Hollywood is selling only masks the mission of the author.

Go if you like but I fail to see why people are concerned if some of us choose not to go.

Although, if you really believe that the immortal souls of children are at stake, destined to be doomed to perdition, then wouldn't it justify stopping and silencing the perpetrator somehow?

I mean, if a child no longer believes in the divinity of the Nazarene, and that is a condition of eternal salvation, what crime could be more heinous? And if the response is that this belief really isn't necessary, then doesn't that invalidate the central tenant of Christianity?

Just wondering...

Derby Wrote:

RandyMc Wrote:

Derby Wrote:I prefer to think for myself and determine what is and isn't against Christianity on my own thank you.

But do you have to do it in a vacuum? I see nothing wrong with "warnings" any more than other movie reviews. It allows you go into the thing with your eyes open and allows you to think about it and maybe even see it before your child views it. You can then decide if it is appropriate as measured by your own standards.

A warning is not a movie review. She admits she hasn't seen it. How can someone review something they haven't even seen? How can someone warn me on something in which they have no first hand knowledge of? How can someone go "into" something with their eyes open if they have been preconditioned? They can't. But this situation is not unique by any means.

The original poster stated her opinion solely on the word of someone else. She obviously trusts and respects someone else's opinion. Fair enough, she can make her own determinations on whom to trust and on whom to respect. I'm not questioning her intent, I'm sure it was honorable.

Ignorance and intolerance masquerading as organized religious intelligence is a dangerous thing.

There is some great stuff in this thread and I appreciate everyones posting. I'll agree, organized religion (you can insert virtually any denomination here) is often at odds with true Christianity.

I can't do anything but tell others about Jesus and His Word, both of which are alive. I can't make any of you believe me, or the testimony of what The LORD has done and is doing with this life, and how He has saved and is saving me. That is between each of you and God, but this I know. God, Jesus, is still in the miracle working business.

I'm learning to pray and honestly ask God to reveal Himself to me through His Word. I don't know everything, nor do I have to. I believe God. I believe His Word. I trust Him to lead me. This is what it means to walk by faith and not by sight.

I need Him. I'm learning to surrender my will to His daily. Sometimes, much to my own dismay, I fail, but He is faithful that has promised and His mercy and His grace is sufficient.

This is what I've found. He reveals Himself to those who truly seek Him with all of their heart. (Maybe not when we want it, He is not a "Jukebox Jesus", but when we need Him the most He is there. He is an on time God. He is faithful and we may believe every promise in His book. He cannot lie and His Word will never pass away.

There are spiritual battles raging, which may not be physically discernable perhaps, but nonetheless are real. This is what is meant by the phrases concerning those with "eyes to see and ears to hear but cannot" Our spiritual vision is a gift from God.

Sometimes, that we can't see, may be a result of a choice each of us makes, we can't see because we prefer to remain in the darkness than to bring ourselves and our sin into the light of Gods Word, to turn from it and to God and accept the forgiveness He has abundantly shed for us..

No matter where each of you are spiritually, I love you, but you know what? Jesus loves you more. He died for you. Yes, for you.

"And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth;And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (Phillipians 2:8-11)

I pray that each of you learns this truth, sooner rather than later.

Nice to know the thought police are out in full force telling us what we can and cannot see.

With all the controversy they've created, I REALLY want to see the movie now. Heck, without your help I might not have even KNOWN that the movie was out.

Thanks TTTGal!