Krocker Krapp Wrote:

coachacola Wrote:Don't be surprised to see UTSA, Lamar and South Alabama playing football in 2010 as FCS independents. It's probably way too early to know where they'll eventually end up.

South Alabama has been playing basketball and minor sports in the Sun Belt for many years. They will eventually end up playing football in the Sun Belt as well. There is no question about that.

UTSA, Texas State, and Lamar, on the other hand, are taking huge gambles. They might be better served by taking things more slowly and trying to get the entire Southland to move together.

Agree; South Alabama will get the required 5 FBS home football games from its SBC compadres as will WKU. They have been in the SBC for a very long time.

TopCoog Wrote:By the way Chargeradio, UTSA will not play as a 1AA independent since there is no 1AA, only 1A.

I guess the way it should be said is "Division I FCS Independent". Division I-AA just changed their name to the "Football Championship Subdivision", while I-A changed their name to the "Football Bowl Subdivision". I'm still not really crazy about the new names.

coachacola, I agree with you about UALR and The Summit. As long as Centenary is around, New Orleans wouldn't be a bad fit there either:

New Orleans/Centenary
UALR/UMKC
Oral Roberts/Southern Utah
North Dakota State/South Dakota State
Western Illinois/IUPUI
IPFW/Oakland

Find a way to unload Southern Utah, and you have a nice "Southwest" Division

That is partially true BUT the object of the NCAA is a total merger of the two divisions. Last year they could not reach agreement on scholarship numbers and decided to try again next year. for all intents and purposes the two divisions have merged. Any of the leagues are free to play in either division.

Changeradio is apparently still obsessed with the idea of expanding the Summit League to 12 teams no matter how much more it stretches out their geography. While you are at it, you ought to just come up with a situation where Southern Utah leaves and gets replaced by Denver, which may as well go alongside their fellow non-football Sun Belt buddies in such a scenario.

TopCoog keeps spreading his idea that FBS and FCS have merged into one division. Many posters have asked for links verifying this but no links have been provided in response. No leagues are free to move from FCS to FBS, or vice versa, because there are big differences in funding and scholarships. There is also a moratorium preventing any schools from moving up until 2011.

Krocker Krapp Wrote:

coachacola Wrote:Don't be surprised to see UTSA, Lamar and South Alabama playing football in 2010 as FCS independents. It's probably way too early to know where they'll eventually end up.

South Alabama has been playing basketball and minor sports in the Sun Belt for many years. They will eventually end up playing football in the Sun Belt as well. There is no question about that.

I created a thread in the Sun Belt section to discuss possible football schedules for USA, including the pre-FBS years.

Krocker Krapp Wrote:Changeradio is apparently still obsessed with the idea of expanding the Summit League to 12 teams no matter how much more it stretches out their geography. While you are at it, you ought to just come up with a situation where Southern Utah leaves and gets replaced by Denver, which may as well go alongside their fellow non-football Sun Belt buddies in such a scenario.

I think you're the one that's obsessed. Note that adding UALR and UNO actually doesn't stretch out the footprint of TSL. Little Rock is just over a 3 hour drive from Shreveport (Centenary), just over 4 hours from Tulsa (Oral Roberts), and just over 6 hours from Kansas City. New Orleans is roughly 5 hours from Shreveport. Flights to New Orleans are fairly abundant as well. Again, UNO makes sense only if Centenary stays.

Both UALR and UNO should stay in the Sun Belt as long as possible, but if everything comes to pass in 2014, they may feel incompatible with the rest of the conference even if they are welcome to stay.

Denver to TSL makes sense only if Okaland, IPFW, and IUPUI are replaced by some more schools in NE, ND, SD, KS, etc. If you must have a travel partner for Southern Utah, take Utah Valley.

The only thing I am obsessed with is keeping it real. You might think it is easy to look at a map and look up driving distances but history, tradition, and university presidents look at a lot more than that. They take a whole lot of things into consideration. At the end of the day, of course, they, not fans, are the ones who make the decisions.

As for the Denver issue, read every word carefully, what I wrote was that they might as well join the Summit League in your fantasy along with their Sun Belt buddies while Southern Utah leaves. You probably have no idea about this but Summit League teams usually change planes in Denver while traveling from Oral Roberts to Southern Utah.

TopCoog Wrote:By the way Chargeradio, UTSA will not play as a 1AA independent since there is no 1AA, only 1A.

Basically a distinction without a difference. When someone writes or says "1AA" is there a college football sports fan anywhere that doesn't know what teams or conferences are being referred to? It's a silly "gotcha" moment but doesn't add anything to a discussion.

WolfInSeattle Wrote:

TopCoog Wrote:By the way Chargeradio, UTSA will not play as a 1AA independent since there is no 1AA, only 1A.

Basically a distinction without a difference. When someone writes or says "1AA" is there a college football sports fan anywhere that doesn't know what teams or conferences are being referred to? It's a silly "gotcha" moment but doesn't add anything to a discussion.

Technically TopCoog is still wrong-there are very much two subdivisions in Division I, the Football Bowl Subdivision (formerly known as Division I-A), and the Football Championship Subdivision (formerly known as Division I-AA). Football is the only sport in which there are subdivisions in NCAA Division I. Non-football schools are just simply "Division I", not "I-A", although they may be members of conferences that sposnor FBS football (i.e. the Sun Belt or Big East) or FCS football (i.e. the CAA). The designation "I-AAA" for non-football schools has been retired.

Bowl Subdivision schools have more power when it comes to matter that affects all of Division I, but FBS schools and FCS schools only govern their own subdivisions when it comes to football.

The NCAA also frowns on the use of anything other than roman numerals when referring to divisions.

After years of dragging it's feet on this, the SBC has finally set forth minimum standards for membership. It has to do with attendance, ticket sales, sports sponsored, funding, etc.

The up shot of all this is that the non-football schools are on the clock. I would venture to say that they won't be in the SBC 5 years from now. The only school that will probably make it is South Alabama, even more so if they add football.

This is going to put the SBC at 9 or 10 schools if they are no defections to CUSA. So, there will be space available for additional members, but they would have to bring something to the table.

UTSA/Texas State would bring market, Texas recruiting, and possibilities with San Antonio hosting another bowl for the SBC.

The door would be open for them.

The obstacle is that the Sun Belt Conference does not have any legal course, and probably no heart, to kick out New Orleans, UALR, or Denver - new minimum standards notwithstanding - and those three teams certainly are not going to leave on their own without an acceptable - in their view - replacement league lined up.

My understanding is that Denver and New Orleans are the only ones below the standard for conference sports sponsored, and they had five years to come into compliance (2012). Unless if the minimum number is raised at some point in the future, USA and UALR are safe for now.

The Main Point
SOUNDS OF SILENCE
Move to bowl subdivision unlikely

June 1 came and went without a sound of the Bowl Championship Subdivision.

While alumni, students, donors, Associated Student Government officers and faculty have expressed their desire to see Texas State enter a higher division of competition — the silence on June 1 was the sound of reality. The board of regents meets Wednesday and Thursday to decide on athletic fees, but we can only imagine the silence regarding Texas State and the BCS.

Texas State will not be going to the BCS anytime soon.

The first attempts to gain a place in the BCS began before most college freshmen were born, and nothing has changed since then.

ASG took the position Monday that it will only support the regents’ proposal to increase the athletic fee if there is a BCS push for the Bobcats.

NCAA standards require Texas State to have more money, more fans and a bigger stadium.

The current athletic fee is $8 per semester hour. This means a full-time undergraduate student taking the minimum 12 hours pays $96 a semester in fees. The NCAA requires $4 million in grants to play in the subdivision, which does not include the amount of scholarship money needed or the cost of stadium renovations to meet the crowd capacity standards the BCS demands. Boise State may have upset Oklahoma, and the old empires of college football may be falling, but the BCS isn’t a popularity contest nor is it an election. You can’t just buy your way into the BCS. If you could, Abilene High School would be going to a bowl game this year.

Even if we did have the money, we still wouldn’t have the fans. Anyone who truly wants Texas State in the BCS has to start supporting athletics by attending games and events. The NCAA requires a 15,000-person average in the football stands over three years, and according to Texas State’s athletic department we have not filled more than 13,000 seats this season. Going to the game means watching from the stands, not just partying at the tailgate.

Then, there’s the schedule. If Texas State did enter the BCS, what teams would we play? If we were lucky, we would join Conference USA. If we were really lucky, we would play the University of North Texas, maybe Southern Methodist University. We would probably be an independent team and lucky to have a home schedule at all. More importantly, Texas State would not enter into the Big 12.

For those who support a BCS bid, it’s obvious they aren’t supporting the team in the stadium. This is probably why, when it comes to Jim Wacker Field on any given Saturday, the silence is deafening.

This student editorial appeared in the Texas State University Star in the Summer or Fall of 2007.

It was announced in the newspaper yesterday, Texas State University will be actively taking steps towards moving to FBS and joining a new conference.

Here is a report from an athletic committee to our President, they specifically mention the WAC, as well as a few other conferences.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/txst...Report.pdf

For more info, browse on over to http://www.bobcatfans.com/forums

South Alabama Football Looks Like a Done Deal -- thread on the SBC Board:

http://www.beltboard.com/forum/forum_ent...order=time

OR

http://www.beltboard.com/forum/forum.php

So that's at least four schools exploring the move when the four-year moratorium is lifted: Jacksonville St, Texas St, South Alabama, and Georgia Southern.

Any others?

At this rate, there may be enough teams to form a new conference.

These three are probably the most likely to fill a 12-team Sun Belt if they decide to go that way.

1) South Alabama
2) Texas State
3) Lamar

The next school has already publicly proclaimed intentions of going to CUSA as soon as possible.

4) UTSA

The remaining schools could have serious issues with landing in a conference barring a shake-up.

5) Jacksonville State
6) Georgia State

Krocker Krapp Wrote:These three are probably the most likely to fill a 12-team Sun Belt if they decide to go that way.

1) South Alabama (auto like WKU; will play in the GMAC Bowl stadium)
2) Texas State (travel partner for NT)
3) Georgia Southern (closer to USA, Troy, FAU, FIU)

IF the SBC were to ever go to 12, I just do not see Lamar in the SBC football lineup. I think Georgia Southern would be the better fit if they do not enter the Big East as some of their fans project . . .

Georgia Southern: http://www.gsufans.com/index.php?board=5.0
Texas State: http://www.bobcatfans.com/forums/

But, this is all speculation so who knows what the future holds?

You may be right, Manzano Wolf, but I know that Lamar is a former Sun Belt school so at least they have that going for them. I was also thinking that they make the divisions line up better for rivalries.

North Texas / Texas State
Lamar / Louisiana-Lafayette
Louisiana-Monroe / Arkansas State

Western Kentucky / Middle Tennessee
Troy / South Alabama
Florida Atlantic / Florida International

If you throw Georgia Southern in there, it screws up perfect divisions, unless FAU ends up leaving. What is with all these Georgia schools thinking they will join the Big East? I saw that thread yesterday.

Krocker Krapp Wrote:You may be right, Manzano Wolf, but I know that Lamar is a former Sun Belt school so at least they have that going for them. I was also thinking that they make the divisions line up better for rivalries.

North Texas / Texas State
Lamar / Louisiana-Lafayette
Louisiana-Monroe / Arkansas State

Western Kentucky / Middle Tennessee
Troy / South Alabama
Florida Atlantic / Florida International

If you throw Georgia Southern in there, it screws up perfect divisions, unless FAU ends up leaving. What is with all these Georgia schools thinking they will join the Big East? I saw that thread yesterday.

You are right; Lamar has a very long history with some of the current SBC football schools as far back as the SLC days -- pre American South and Sun Belt. As I recall it was UTA and Lamar that led the move to D1 football in the SLC, before there were subdivisions. I am aware of no hard feelings between any SBC school and Lamar and I have been around way too long . . .

The Georgia schools would probably be best suited for a new Bowl Subdivision conference under the A-10 or CAA banner-although if any current members are plucked away (especially North Texas), I am sure they are on the Sun Belt's short list. Coincidentally, Georgia State and UNC Charlotte (whose football future will be known early next year) are former Sun Belt members.

As far as any new eastern conference goes, there could be a substantial pool of candidates emerging between 2013-2015:
Georgia Southern, Georgia State, Kennesaw State, UNC Charlotte, Appalachian State, Temple, Buffalo, Massachusetts, James Madison, Old Dominion, Delaware, Jacksonville State

Krocker Krapp's divisional alignment for the Sun Belt is probably the most likely should all three of those schools successfully transition to FBS football. If the non-football schools are still around, New Orleans will probably settle for the East, and Denver and UALR will obviously be in the West. The only catch would be any possible attendance victims (Florida International, this means you).

BTW, in the case of South Alabama, there is widespread speculation that USA starting football was a deathbed wish of Mayer Mitchell-The football movement at USA really took off after he passed away. The Mitchells have been very generous in their support of the University, and the Mitchell Center (basketball arena) and Mitchell College of Business are named in their honor.