Observer Wrote:

blah Wrote:

Observer Wrote:No, but I can use sources to prove my assertions. "Out of the Deasert," by noted historian and archeologist, Dr. William Stiebing, Jr. lists the name of the are in question at the time of the arrival of Moses as being Canaan or Palestine. (p. 19, 31, 33, 42, 44, 47, ....

There have been varing wars and alliances between the Israelites and surronding peoples for centuries. However, most of those hostilities ceased under Greek and Roman occupations, as well as during the Babalonian conflicts. There was no evidence of any real stife between the arabs and Israelites in modern history up until the time the Zionists began hostilities to create the Nation of Israel in Palestine. Until then, Jews and arabs were hormoneously, side by side. Terrorists attacks by Jews changed all that.

So, if Howard Carter (archaeologist that discovered King Tut's tomb) had called the United States, Australia, would it then be true?

If you are interested in the non-anti-semitic origin of how the region was called Palestine look below...

Quote:In 132 the Bar Kokhba's Revolt began led by Simon bar Kokhba and an independent state in Israel was declared. By 135 this revolt was crushed by Rome. The Romans, seeking to suppress the names "Judaea" and "Jerusalem", reorganized it as part of the province of Syria-Palestine. In order to worsen the humiliation of the defeated Jews, the Latin name Palaestina was chosen for the area, after the Philistines, whom the Romans identified as the worst enemies of the Jews in history. From then on the region was known as Palestine.

After this defeat, there was no temple and no Jews left in the region as they were either killed by the Romans, taken into slavery by the Romans or left the region to avoid the above.

Therefore, it makes sense that there was no conflict between Jews and Arabs during the 1800+ years that Jews weren't in the area.

BTW, which terrorist attack from the Jews changed all this?

You jump to a very hasty and incorrect conclusion. Dr. Stiebing is anything but an "anti-semite." He is a very well respected History professor and well recognized authority on Egypt and the Middle East. He has authored many college text books on the subjects. All of his works are thoroughly researched and heavily footnoted.

To say that no Jews lived in Palestine for over 1800 years is an absolute falsehood. I'm surprised you have no knowledge of the Zionist terrorist attacks in and around Palestine while the English were in control. King David Hotel massacre ring a bell?

I didn't say that Dr. Stiebing was an anti-semite. I said you were. My statement was that just because a respected archaeologist calls a piece of land by a specific name, doesn't mean that it is correct. i.e. If I said that Prague is in Czechoslavakia.

Maybe I was unclear on my 1800+ years statement. What I meant was Jews as a nation/group of people.

Quote:I didn't say that Dr. Stiebing was an anti-semite. I said you were.

blah (and everyone else), please refrain from using those tactics. Form what I can tell Observer has been mostly respectful in this lastest reigniting on this topic.

Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:

Quote:I didn't say that Dr. Stiebing was an anti-semite. I said you were.

blah (and everyone else), please refrain from using those tactics. Form what I can tell Observer has been mostly respectful in this lastest reigniting on this topic.

I have no problem with someone arguing their position, but I do when you make up history to prove your point. That has been my only problem with Observer. I don't care if you argue that the sun is blue, as long as you have proof. (Proof is not....My neighbor said so.)

RebelKev Wrote:

Observer Wrote:The murder of American peace activist Rachel Corrie, intentionally crushed by Israeli bulldozer.

Quote:Arrest of Israelis by NYPD on 9/11. They were dancing with delight atop their white van as they filmed the assault on the WTC.

And much, much more.

Got a link on this?

You might want to start with this concerning the 9/11 incident. I first heard about it on FOX news. http://whatreallyhappened.com/spyring.html

Observer Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:

Observer Wrote:The murder of American peace activist Rachel Corrie, intentionally crushed by Israeli bulldozer.

Quote:Arrest of Israelis by NYPD on 9/11. They were dancing with delight atop their white van as they filmed the assault on the WTC.

And much, much more.

Got a link on this?

You might want to start with this concerning the 9/11 incident. I first heard about it on FOX news. http://whatreallyhappened.com/spyring.html

If we are just going to use any conspiracy website as proof, look I found out that the moon is made of green cheese....

Moon is made of green cheese....

I also found that the Pope is the Anti-Christ...

Pope = Anti-Christ

and...Bigfoot is real...

Bigfoot is real...

RebelKev Wrote:

Observer Wrote:You jump to a very hasty and incorrect conclusion. Dr. Stiebing is anything but an "anti-semite." He is a very well respected History professor and well recognized authority on Egypt and the Middle East.

I'm sure Ward Churchill was also well-respected by some.

I don't really know what your point is here, but Dr. Stiebing has never been accused of anti-semitism or any form of prejudice in his entire career. In none of his writings does he refer to Zionism, or to the Israelites in a manner that would discredit them as a people. He is merely a professor of history who has thoroughly researched the Middle East, knows and understands the area and people as well as anyone alive today. He refers to ancient texts that identify the areas of the region. Canaan is its ancient name. His writings follow the Israelites from Egypt, through the Transjordan into Canaan. Through Edom and Moab before crossing the Jordan and settling.

One very interestng note comes from page 18 of "Ancient Israel" by Hershel Shanks, "early Israelites were probably of diverse origin, and many, or most seem to have been indigenous in Canaan." That certainly sounds like a lot of the strife between the groups was eliminated.

If we are just going to use any conspiracy website as proof, look I found out that the moon is made of green cheese....

No. You don't use the website as proof. You examine their souces. You follow the trail of sources to the original story and weigh the merit of witness. It is kind of difficult to ignore when Fox News and right wing souces share the same story.

Observer Wrote:If we are just going to use any conspiracy website as proof, look I found out that the moon is made of green cheese....

No. You don't use the website as proof. You examine their souces. You follow the trail of sources to the original story and weigh the merit of witness. It is kind of difficult to ignore when Fox News and right wing souces share the same story.

Seeing as Fox News asked the website to take down the links, it would make sense to me that either the story is not true or it was set up as a distortion of the truth.

I didn't say that Dr. Stiebing was an anti-semite. I said you were. My statement was that just because a respected archaeologist calls a piece of land by a specific name, doesn't mean that it is correct. i.e. If I said that Prague is in Czechoslavakia.

Maybe I was unclear on my 1800+ years statement. What I meant was Jews as a nation/group of people.
[/quote]

It is one thing to say an area was known by a particular name. Such as you saying Prague is in Czechoslavakia. It is quite another to support it with archiological evidence, ancient documents (Armana Letters,) linguistic patterns, and other studies. Such is what Dr. Stiebing does.

And, the fact that Ariel Sharon led a group os terrorist against the Palestinians and English, prior to the establishment of the criminal state of Israel, is emperical evidence that Jews as a group did in fact inhabit the area. There is volumes of other historical evidence to prove so. All you need to do is open your eyes and see it. After the Assyrian conquest, the Babelonian conquest, the Roman conquest, there was always Jews left behind in Canaan (Palestine) to carry on.

Seeing as Fox News asked the website to take down the links, it would make sense to me that either the story is not true or it was set up as a distortion of the truth.
[/quote]

Are you saying that Fox's report was either untrue or distorted? Have you even looked at the Jewish paper listed?

blah Wrote:If we are just going to use any conspiracy website as proof, look I found out that the moon is made of green cheese....

Moon is made of green cheese....

I also found that the Pope is the Anti-Christ...

Pope = Anti-Christ

and...Bigfoot is real...

Bigfoot is real...

Try this link on Rachel Corrie.
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/news.htm

And this one on the Jews celebrating.
http://newsfromthewest.blogspot.com/2007...ttack.html

Observer Wrote:Try this link on Rachel Corrie.
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/news.htm

And this one on the Jews celebrating.
http://newsfromthewest.blogspot.com/2007...ttack.html

OMG. You have to be smoking some serious **** to believe that video.

Observer Wrote:Try this link on Rachel Corrie.
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/news.htm

And this one on the Jews celebrating.
http://newsfromthewest.blogspot.com/2007...ttack.html

Wow...

That second site is nothing but an anti-Jewish site...



The Statue of Liberty with Stars of David's in her eyes?

P.S. I didn't see any dancing Jews.

Regarding Rachel Corrie...

Quote:On January 18, 2003, Corrie traveled to the Gaza Strip, where she attended two days of training in non-violent resistance and serving as human shields. Through February and March, according to ISM activists and e-mails Corrie sent to her family, she took part in a mock trial of George W. Bush; a demonstration as part of the February 15, 2003 anti-war protest against the war in Iraq, where she burned a paper U.S. flag; and helped to occupy the area around local wells, an operation designed to protect the wells and Palestinian workers from the IDF, according to the ISM.

In e-mails to her family, Corrie described what she witnessed and expressed her frustration over it.[4] On March 14, 2003 in an interview with the Middle East Broadcasting network, she said: "I feel like I'm witnessing the systematic destruction of a people's ability to survive ... Sometimes I sit down to dinner with people and I realize there is a massive military machine surrounding us, trying to kill the people I'm having dinner with."[5]

Sounds like she deserved to get run over, whether intentional or not.

Here's another site for digging up "factual" information...

Holocaust Hoax

RebelKev Wrote:

Observer Wrote:Try this link on Rachel Corrie.
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/news.htm

And this one on the Jews celebrating.
http://newsfromthewest.blogspot.com/2007...ttack.html

OMG. You have to be smoking some serious **** to believe that video.

It's not just the video. You gather as much info from as many sourcse as possible and try to determine what the truth is. Ignoring stories and refusing to look at the source behind the stories is ignorant.

Regarding Rachel Corrie...

Quote:On January 18, 2003, Corrie traveled to the Gaza Strip, where she attended two days of training in non-violent resistance and serving as human shields. Through February and March, according to ISM activists and e-mails Corrie sent to her family, she took part in a mock trial of George W. Bush; a demonstration as part of the February 15, 2003 anti-war protest against the war in Iraq, where she burned a paper U.S. flag; and helped to occupy the area around local wells, an operation designed to protect the wells and Palestinian workers from the IDF, according to the ISM.

In e-mails to her family, Corrie described what she witnessed and expressed her frustration over it.[4] On March 14, 2003 in an interview with the Middle East Broadcasting network, she said: "I feel like I'm witnessing the systematic destruction of a people's ability to survive ... Sometimes I sit down to dinner with people and I realize there is a massive military machine surrounding us, trying to kill the people I'm having dinner with."[5]

Sounds like she deserved to get run over, whether intentional or not.
[/quote]

She deserved to be crushed to death!! Are you serious? What did she do that was so heineous? Burn a paper flag? Stand in front of a water supply to protect it from demolition so that people would not die of thirst? Good grief man, get a grip.

blah Wrote:Here's another site for digging up "factual" information...

Holocaust Hoax

Makes some very interesting points. Needs further review.

The UN declared Israel a Nation. The UN has ratified that resolution numerous times. Nuff said. England owned Palestine at that point, it ceded it to Israel and the inhabitants of the country were left in the lurch. Perhaps the Palestinians should have fought with the Nazi's in WWII to keep the Brits from owning Palestine. Bad things happen when your country is owned by another country. Ask Iraq.

So the woman in the video claims that what she saw was Israeli's celebrating. She doesn't say how she knew that they were celebrating, but I can see how some movements could be misinterpreted when viewed through binoculars. Even if they were celebrating Is there any evidence that these people are actually tied to Mossad and represent some official government position from Israel? Characterizing all the Jewish because of the actions (which could have been misinterpreted) a few people is an inappropriate generalization. Also how many other witnesses saw the celebrating? Or is this entire argument based on one eye-witness?

As for the video, it is incredibly vague and the second half is nothing more than a hatchet job against Israel. What was the context of the apparent Israeli who was talking about how "corrosive" Judaism is? What's the point of apparently linking The Israeli Supreme Court with Masons (I guess?)? Why not just address the issue instead of adding in all this extra static?