UCONN delivering nyc thats not even close.They have a better chance of delivering Boston.

tigersharktwo Wrote:UCONN delivering nyc thats not even close.They have a better chance of delivering Boston.

Let me teach you a little about CT. Southern CT is basically a bedroom community for the NYC. Many people live in CT but work in NYC. CT is smack right in-between Boston and NYC. UCONN is well known in NYC. Just go check out the BE tournament sometimes and see what fans show up the most. Giving RU the NYC market is not realistic. Do they have the potential? Yeah they do but so does UCONN. UCONN's long history of winning is far more impressive than 1 season of decent football.

Yes Storrs and Hartford are not near southern Conn..The viewership in football in NYC HAS NOTHING OF SIGNIFCANCE to do with UCONN football.UCONN is not ND.Bringing fans into msg for the BE tournament does mean you own NYC.

Been doing some reading on the BTN. Apparently, ESPN gets something like the first and second choice of what games to air, the BTN takes the rest. But if you want to watch Northwestern play Northeastern, you probably want to join the network.
My guess is you can get the best of the Big10 without joining the network. In addition, they are looking at 20 million cable subscribers currently in their footprint. Or $260 million, providing everyone joins the network. No presale figures have been released. Wonder why?
Anyways, the potential money is off the chain- I have to admit. But what stops the Big East from forming the Big east Network in it's region that already has more than 20 million cable subscribers in its footprint. I was against it but now I'm thinking this may be the ticket. I mean Seton Hall fans can now see every game. So can St. Johns fans.
HOw long will it take to set up a BENetwork in the northeast. This is why the BE targets Maryland and BC (Benedict College). No need for Rutgers to leave if we're doing the same deal. We'll have twice the money of the BTN footprint easily.
I was against this idea at first but reading more, I see the money and the service to fans.
Once again the big loser becomes the ACC. Why, Because they are fighting the southeast market with the SEC. The BE has a lock on the the north east if we can keep the Big10 and the ACC out of our pockets. And we can by taking back what's ours. The talk should not be of expanding, it should be of forming the BENetwork and then going after BC and maryland and UCF to keep USF happy.

The Big East survived losing Miami and Virginia Tech. It would survive without Syracuse or Rutgers.

tigersharktwo Wrote:Yes Storrs and Hartford are not near southern Conn..The viewership in football in NYC HAS NOTHING OF SIGNIFCANCE to do with UCONN football.UCONN is not ND.Bringing fans into msg for the BE tournament does mean you own NYC.

You really have no clue, do you? CT is a small state. There are multiple UCONN regional campuses throughout the state. Even UCONN's main campus Storrs is 144 miles to NYC and 87 miles to Boston. This means it is 2.5 hours drive from storrs and less than 1 hour from Fairfield county part of CT. Boston is about 1.5 hours. Those are not exactly super far.

You might want to read NYC newspapers about UCONN coverage. All UCONN needs is one of those RU football season to be on the map.

Michael is right, BE will survive fine if RU or Cuse decide to go to the B10. It might sound good on paper and for the money, but fans will suffer cause both teams would be bottom and suck every year. Cuse basketball will compete, but both RU and Cuse football will suffer greatly.

frogman Wrote:Been doing some reading on the BTN. Apparently, ESPN gets something like the first and second choice of what games to air, the BTN takes the rest. But if you want to watch Northwestern play Northeastern, you probably want to join the network.

Yes. ABC/ESPN is 'paying' the Big Ten $100 million annually for the next 10 years for the privilege of the agreed upon pecking order. Although, it is my understanding, half of that is really 'play' money.

As for your point about Northwestern playing Northeastern, it really is more than that. Unless you're ND, all of your favorite teams games are not going to be on a national broadcast network whether that be ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX or ESPN/ESPN2. A good number of them, even for the likes of Wisconsin and Iowa were being shown on Big Ten Regional or through ESPN Gameplan.

I currently shell out $99.00 for Gameplan and then an additional fee starting in December for ESPN Full Court - mainly for Syracuse away football games, Syracuse bb games, then Big East games (both fb and bb), then other games from other conferences that I might be interested in.

Believe me, I'd much rather be charged less than $20 annually for the privilege of having any game available to me from any of the 6 BCS conferences on basic cable while still getting to see the 'pre-determined' games of national interest on ESPN or one of the broadcast networks than paying ABC/ESPN a king's ransom for that privilege.

Now, I'm quite sure there are many more that would not be willing to pay that amount. But, for me, that's their problem. I'm not too keen about paying almost $26 annually for YES, not to mention paying whatever I am paying for the Golf Channel, the Food Network, the Shopping Network, Bravo, Lifetime and more than two dozen other channels I never watch. And to those who enjoy those channels, I'm sure they feel that's MY problem.

Quote:In addition, they are looking at 20 million cable subscribers currently in their footprint. Or $260 million, providing everyone joins the network. No presale figures have been released. Wonder why?

Likely because at this point in time they realize without Comcast, Time Warner, and Dish TV on board, they don't have even a third of the subscribers in their states receiving the BTN as launch date approaches. Good estimate on the amounts if they did have everyone on board. I have it as a little less than 22 million subscribers in their current region and if all within it were paying the $13.20 annually the BigTen/FOX would gross close to $290 million to be split in half between the two.

Quote:Anyways, the potential money is off the chain- I have to admit.

The amount of $$$ is insane.

Quote:But what stops the Big East from forming the Big east Network in it's region that already has more than 20 million cable subscribers in its footprint.

Quote:How long will it take to set up a BENetwork in the northeast. This is why the BE targets Maryland and BC (Benedict College). No need for Rutgers to leave if we're doing the same deal. We'll have twice the money of the BTN footprint easily.

I'll address these two points together.

First, no conference can do it until their current TV contracts run out.

In terms of negotiated conference contracts, the order would be:

Big Ten (already negotiated and set to launch with 2007-08 season)
SEC (current contract ends with 2008-09 season)
ACC (current contract ends with 2010-11 season)
Pac-10 (current contract ends with 2011-12 season)
Big East (current contract ends with 2012-13 season)*
Big 12 (current contract ends with 2015-16 season)

*Note: The BEast could possibly jump ahead of ACC and follow the SEC if a split or significant conference re-shuffling were to occur.

More importantly than the above, for conference networks to have any hope of coming to fruition, the Big Ten and the SEC have to be the first two conferences to pull it off successfully. Let's face it, they are the top two conferences in terms of perception. The Big East, perception wise, still isn't even on some people's radar for developing its own network.

It's the reason why the Comcast spokesman can state with impunity that 5 Conference Networks would cost subscribers $1.5 billion annually. You can bet the conference not included in that figure is the Big East.

The main reason this perception persists for the Big East remains that the sport that is pushing this trend is football, and for its region, the two most popular college football programs do not play that sport in that conference.

Lastly, even including all of Pennsylvania (something that would be an extreme stretch without Penn State), the number of cable subscribers in the Big East region (all of New England and the mid-Atlantic states of NY,NJ, and PA) are slightly less than the Big Ten with PA. So the $$$ is potentially greater there, especially when adding a twelfth member.

How the BEast is different from the Big Ten is it has shown in the past the willingness to grant privileges to 'special' programs if it is a matter of survival. So, while the money is indeed insane (assuming a successful BTN and SEC Network get up and running the next two years), for the BEast, it doesn't necessarily have to be evenly distributed. Perhaps a portion of it could be used to try and lure one, two, or maybe even three of these 'special' programs into (or back into) the conference.

Of course, the athletics money is only part of the issues. There are other institutional concerns that would need to be addressed to make the league attractive enough to get these programs to at least consider joining (re-joining) - but without the $$$, the conversation isn't even going to get started.

Again, a Big East Network is going to need either Penn State or Notre Dame (preferably both) to even have a chance at launching.

Quote:Once again the big loser becomes the ACC. Why, Because they are fighting the southeast market with the SEC. The BE has a lock on the the north east if we can keep the Big10 and the ACC out of our pockets. And we can by taking back what's ours. The talk should not be of expanding, it should be of forming the BE Network and then going after BC and maryland and UCF to keep USF happy.

If the BTN and SEC Networks are successful within the next two years, then I believe it will be a dogfight between the Big East and the ACC for East Coast supremacy.

But don't count Swofford and the ACC out. They are already in an all-sports conference and have the edge in terms of perception and academic prestige.

The original plan was a good one. Virginia and North Carolina politics screwed the pooch slightly, but not necessarily irrevocably. But they will have some tough, hard decisions ahead of them. And after the last go-round, I'm not sure they are capable of making them.

Of course the BEast has a different problem. Will they 'see' the changes coming and be proactive (whether it proves successful or not) - or will they remain inert and tell us how they were blind-sided again?

Time will tell.

Cheers,
Neil

UCONN IS NOT AND WILL NOT BE A NYC SCHOOL.It is pure fantasy to say UCONN is a nyc school.UCONN is a New England school.Branch campuses in southern Conn do not make UCONN a nyc school.UCONN gets little tv coverage in nyc.If uconn gets strong in football its market is southern New England not nyc.UCONN is not ND.

Y'all are jus' floggin' this horse to death.

omnicarrier Wrote:Lastly, even including all of Pennsylvania (something that would be an extreme stretch without Penn State), the number of cable subscribers in the Big East region (all of New England and the mid-Atlantic states of NY,NJ, and PA) are slightly less than the Big Ten with PA. So the $$$ is potentially greater there, especially when adding a twelfth member.

If the BTN and SEC Networks are successful within the next two years, then I believe it will be a dogfight between the Big East and the ACC for East Coast supremacy.
But don't count Swofford and the ACC out. They are already in an all-sports conference and have the edge in terms of perception and academic prestige.

Neil

Omni carrier some of your perceptions are a little too southern oriented. I'll explain what I mean but first here's a link on TV markets by city to address your first erroneous perception:
http://www.tvb.org/rcentral/markettrack/...by_DMA.asp

As you can see the largest TV market is NYC with nearly 7.5 million TV households, more than one-third the BTN alleged footprint. Add Phil, Wash and Pitt and you're already at 14 million. Of course you will say Phil (villanova) and Wash. (Georgetown) DOn't play football. But they are inthe BE and part of the current network which will include BB. Out side of Ny and L.A., Chicago (Depaul) is the next best thing at about half the size of NY that adds almost 3.5 million more households and the BE still has about 10 other cities to add. The current BE is the largest TV footprint.

You comments on the ACC's academic perstige- you've got to be kidding me.
Firstly, I grew up in NYC where 92 percent of all students take the SAT- the highest percentage in the nation. There are two Ivy Leagues schools in NY: Cornell and Columbia. The brightest northeasterners don't go to Division one schools-period. And the academic world does not revolve around division one schools- it revolves around the Ivy League. Division one schools are just about athletics- just look at what really drives their expansion talks. The north east also holds Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Brown- that's the Ivy league, everything else is just everything else. Please don't use academic prestige and any divison one sports school in the same sentence.
Yea I know the south tries to say Duke is almost Ivy and U.S. News and World Report overrate them every year- but Duke is a sports school- the rest of the ACC is not worth mentioning. What academic prestige? There's no prestige in the ACC and frankly none anywhere in the south. US News is trying to be politically correct.
You also feel the ACC has the edge in athletics perception over the BE. How so? The ACC has been dominated by FSU for years and FSU has slowly floundered for years. The ACC was dying- that's why they raided the BE. And guess what, the ACC is still dying. That's reality- not perception. Their problem is the SEC tearing it up in their region not the BE.

Mike T has given no indication to expand the BE football to 12 teams, in fact he said he likes eight as long as they are winning. The BE Network must include our current makeup and that's the largest footprint in college sports. I also believe ESPN will renegotiate the BE contract whenever it is in both parties interest to do so. Why wouldn't they?

frogman Wrote:

omnicarrier Wrote:Lastly, even including all of Pennsylvania (something that would be an extreme stretch without Penn State), the number of cable subscribers in the Big East region (all of New England and the mid-Atlantic states of NY,NJ, and PA) are slightly less than the Big Ten with PA. So the $$$ is potentially greater there, especially when adding a twelfth member.

If the BTN and SEC Networks are successful within the next two years, then I believe it will be a dogfight between the Big East and the ACC for East Coast supremacy.

But don't count Swofford and the ACC out. They are already in an all-sports conference and have the edge in terms of perception and academic prestige.

Neil

Omni carrier some of your perceptions are a little too southern oriented. I'll explain what I mean but first here's a link on TV markets by city to address your first erroneous perception:
http://www.tvb.org/rcentral/markettrack/...by_DMA.asp

As you can see the largest TV market is NYC with nearly 7.5 million TV households, more than one-third the BTN alleged footprint. Add Phil, Wash and Pitt and you're already at 14 million. Of course you will say Phil (villanova) and Wash. (Georgetown) DOn't play football. But they are inthe BE and part of the current network which will include BB. Out side of Ny and L.A., Chicago (Depaul) is the next best thing at about half the size of NY that adds almost 3.5 million more households and the BE still has about 10 other cities to add. The current BE is the largest TV footprint.

While it is true the Big East has the largest TV market 'reach', it is ultimately 'pull' in the conference network scenario (BTN model) that will be the key factor when determining which areas' subscribers would be charged the full price ($13.20 annually) and which the minimum price ($1.20 annually).

As I stated in my post: even including all of Pennsylvania (something that would be an extreme stretch without Penn State), the number of cable subscribers in the Big East region (all of New England and the mid-Atlantic states of NY,NJ, and PA) are slightly less than the Big Ten with PA.

So I did count Philly. However, I simply do not see how one can count DC and Chicago as being in the Big East region for purposes of a Big East Conference Network. There is no way either city would want its cable subscribers paying full price for the Big East product as currently constructed.

That is too gigantic a stretch, imho.

PS. Thanks for the updated TV DMAs. I have been using the 2005-06 ones since Nielsen trademarked the figures last year and now makes you pay for the updated versions by subscribing to their site.

Quote:You comments on the ACC's academic perstige- you've got to be kidding me.

Firstly, I grew up in NYC where 92 percent of all students take the SAT- the highest percentage in the nation. There are two Ivy Leagues schools in NY: Cornell and Columbia. The brightest northeasterners don't go to Division one schools-period. And the academic world does not revolve around division one schools- it revolves around the Ivy League. Division one schools are just about athletics- just look at what really drives their expansion talks. The north east also holds Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Brown- that's the Ivy league, everything else is just everything else. Please don't use academic prestige and any divison one sports school in the same sentence.

I'm sorry Frogman, but that little pout you just spat out above is silly. Now, before you get mad, I'm not saying 'you' are silly, I'm saying your stance above on this topic is silly.

There are plenty of fine academic institutions who participate in Division 1 athletics (including Division 1 football) and many fine academic institutions that do not participate at the division 1 athletics level at all.

And I don't care what academic institution one talks about, I guarantee you from the lowliest community college to the Ivy League, the institutions themselves care in some way or another about academic prestige. It's one of the reasons cited continuously as to why PSU won't leave the Big Ten for the Big East and of course, it is one of the reasons cited by BC for leaving the Big East for the ACC.

Now we know the number one reason is $$$ in both cases, but don't be fooled into thinking the academic part isn't an issue, along with other issues such as athletic facilities (particularly sizes of stadiums in PSU's case), etc.

Quote:Yea I know the south tries to say Duke is almost Ivy and U.S. News and World Report overrate them every year- but Duke is a sports school- the rest of the ACC is not worth mentioning. What academic prestige? There's no prestige in the ACC and frankly none anywhere in the south. US News is trying to be politically correct.

Oh, come on. It's not simply US News and World Report. It's the Princeton Journal. It's the TheCenter (the Center for Measuring Research Performance at Universities). Heck, even when you get to World University Rankings, it's a 6 to 3 advantage the ACC has over the Big East. And two of the Big East's entries on the THES-QS rankings are bb schools - Georgetown and Notre Dame.

But I suppose these foreign rankings have to be US-politically correct as well.

Quote:You also feel the ACC has the edge in athletics perception over the BE. How so?

Again, it's perception. One only has to go to the most recent article by Stewart Mandel that separates out the BCS teams into categories of Kings, Barons, Knights and Peasants.

Now, is it a perception that is changing? Yes. But it hasn't changed as of yet. Even with Mandel's comments about Rutgers and South Florida possibly moving up out of the peasants. The more telling perception was that West Virginia is still grouped amongst the Knights rather than the Barons - which is where they actually now belong.

Quote:Mike T has given no indication to expand the BE football to 12 teams, in fact he said he likes eight as long as they are winning. The BE Network must include our current makeup and that's the largest footprint in college sports. I also believe ESPN will renegotiate the BE contract whenever it is in both parties interest to do so. Why wouldn't they?

Mikey T has already publicly given up on any notion of a Big East Network. He is of the belief that the BE markets are somehow different than the Big Ten markets. Of course, Philly belongs to both. And he has yet to explain why the likes of Chicago and Detroit are different from NYC.

Still, while the current set-up is fine for the moment - for purposes of increasing the reach and knowledge of the brand - ultimately in the world of conference networks, it will be football driving the bus (as it does now in terms of national TV contracts).

Cheers,
Neil

Omnicarrier wrote:
"And I don't care what academic institution one talks about, I guarantee you from the lowliest community college to the Ivy League, the institutions themselves care in some way or another about academic prestige. It's one of the reasons cited continuously as to why PSU won't leave the Big Ten for the Big East and of course, it is one of the reasons cited by BC for leaving the Big East for the ACC."

Oh come on. You've gotta be kidding. BC left for FB stability and money. Academic Prestige? Nobody buys that. Especially after BC spent 25 years in the BE and would have spent another 25 had Miami not bolted to the ACC. I have not heard one BE fan say they now have academic prestige. I've heard them say the money is good though.
P.S. The move to the ACC was not about the ACC it was about Miami. The BE depended on UM for FB prestige as the ACC relied on FSU. Miami was still hot and FSU was failing. BC followed the money, they followed Miami. The thinking that Miami was a FB KING as you next quote notes.

Omnicarrier wrote:
"Again, it's perception. One only has to go to the most recent article by Stewart Mandel that separates out the BCS teams into categories of Kings, Barons, Knights and Peasants."

I actually commented on this ESPN ranking in another BE blog as did other BE fans. Teams change coaches, players year to year. Those guys who won big at say, Miami, are now long gone and this is new crop. They didn't look like kings last year- did they. The ESPN ranking do nothing but give the "elite" programs something to show recruits. ESPN is protecting it's long term contractual interest with these "elite" programs by publishing this article and a similar ranking they published earlier. Don't forget ESPN was part of the ACC raid of the BE and they can't be too happy about how things are turning out. IMHO the ACC cannot thrive in the SEC's shadow. They were in trouble before the raid and they still are in trouble. Their many kings, dukes, knight, whatever have not won their BCS game since something like 2001. And yes, that includes their conference champ even after the raid. They lost every BCS game. In the last two years the BE champ has knocked off the ACC champ and the SEC champ in a BCS game. Why doesn't ESPN tell that story instead of dwelling on what used to be. That was then, this is now.
Long live the King.
Omnicarier, you can't be a real BE fan- can you?

frogman Wrote:Omnicarrier wrote:
"And I don't care what academic institution one talks about, I guarantee you from the lowliest community college to the Ivy League, the institutions themselves care in some way or another about academic prestige. It's one of the reasons cited continuously as to why PSU won't leave the Big Ten for the Big East and of course, it is one of the reasons cited by BC for leaving the Big East for the ACC."

Oh come on. You've gotta be kidding. BC left for FB stability and money. Academic Prestige? Nobody buys that.

I guess we have a reading and comprehension problem. As my post clearly states: Now we know the number one reason is $$$ in both cases, but don't be fooled into thinking the academic part isn't an issue, along with other issues such as athletic facilities (particularly sizes of stadiums in PSU's case), etc.

Again, while money is the number one reason, it's not the ONLY reason institutions jump conferences. Should the current BE configuration prove successful and should increases in BE money and a decline in ACC monies occur, do you truly believe BC is just going to jump right back?

Quote:Especially after BC spent 25 years in the BE and would have spent another 25 had Miami not bolted to the ACC.

True, had Miami not bolted, it's a non-issue. But had Miami not bolted, it was a non-issue for the ACC as well. Had Shalala said no, after VT had said yes, then ACC expansion would have stopped at 10.

Quote:I have not heard one BE fan say they now have academic prestige. I've heard them say the money is good though.

I assume you must mean 'one BC fan' and if that is correct, then I can only assume you don't know many Eagles fans. Let me direct to their sites:

http://bostoncollege.rivals.com/forum.as...07&fid=603

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=165#S=165&F=2956

Go and ask them if it's only the money and not the academic prestige. I double dare you.

Quote:Omnicarrier wrote:
"Again, it's perception. One only has to go to the most recent article by Stewart Mandel that separates out the BCS teams into categories of Kings, Barons, Knights and Peasants."

I actually commented on this ESPN ranking in another BE blog as did other BE fans. Teams change coaches, players year to year. Those guys who won big at say, Miami, are now long gone and this is new crop. They didn't look like kings last year- did they. The ESPN ranking do nothing but give the "elite" programs something to show recruits. ESPN is protecting it's long term contractual interest with these "elite" programs by publishing this article and a similar ranking they published earlier. Don't forget ESPN was part of the ACC raid of the BE and they can't be too happy about how things are turning out. IMHO the ACC cannot thrive in the SEC's shadow. They were in trouble before the raid and they still are in trouble. Their many kings, dukes, knight, whatever have not won their BCS game since something like 2001. And yes, that includes their conference champ even after the raid. They lost every BCS game. In the last two years the BE champ has knocked off the ACC champ and the SEC champ in a BCS game. Why doesn't ESPN tell that story instead of dwelling on what used to be. That was then, this is now.

There are just so many inaccuracies in the above, I don't know where to begin.

First, Stewart Mandel is Sports Illustrated which is CNN/Time Warner connected, not ESPN/ABC connected.

Next, college football isn't a 'NOW' type of sport. So when assessing these kinds of things, when trying to determine 'the perception of college football programs' Mandel correctly doesn't look solely at what they did last year, or even the last two or three years. He looked at where they are now, where they have been and where they are projected to go in the near future - (which is why he has trouble qualifying Louisville, and has qualifying statements on Tennessee, LSU, Syracuse, Rutgers and South Florida.

Now, one can disagree with the placements based upon this criteria (such as West Virginia who has a BCS Bowl win and a history as good as VT, which does not) - but to try and dispute his rankings on the NOW factor, is to miss what this sport is truly all about, imho.

As for the ACC not winning a BCS Bowl game in this century, that is something I take pure delight in as long-time readers of this forum know. Still, it doesn't detract from the fact that Miami is 71-16 since 2000 with a National Championship and a runner-up in that time frame, while I seriously doubt any of the Knights or Barons come close to that overall record.

And personally, if she were willing to come back to the BE, I think the league would say 'Yes' in the space of a heartbeat. Don't you?

Quote:Omnicarier, you can't be a real BE fan- can you?

And I think you are still too new to this forum to be asking/making such rhetorical questions/statements. Of course, the answer could be found by simply researching the forum and finding posts written by myself - but since you apparently are a NOW type of personality, I have no such delusions about you doing that.

Cheers,
Neil

ESPN did the same type ranking earlier.
I guess SI followed suit.

I don't remember BC complaining about the academic prestige in the BE before the raid. I hardly believe Miami is known for its academic rigor. I grew up in NYC- none of my councelors pointed me to an ACC school, instead they told me that Syracuse's Newhouse was #1 or #2 for communications- that's where I went. Syr's Maxwell School of Citizenship is also highly ranked. Certainly higher for comm. than anything BC has to offer.
Of course the BC fans are going to say they are better off academically. What else would they say? BC, UM and VT were hardly known as the academic giants of the BE but I do believe BC was the best of the three and probably improved the academic prestige of the ACC.
I don't think the BE would take UM back. We have USF and are probably looking at UCF- that's good enough. UM's days as a "king" may be over as may be FSU's, which has declined steadly over a number of years. USF has the better coach anyways.
I do think we'd take BC back and in a heartbeat because of TV market share. UM only gives us a presence in talent rich Florida and we have that now without them.
Most high school students were in elementary school the last time FSU was great. Without an article like SI's or ESPN's, they probably would never know FSU was a king. They probably watched WVU/UofL last year with most of the country and maybe even got to see UofL demolish the Candycanes, ugh, Hurricanes also.
Good to know you're a true BE man. I am new to these boards so I'll just watch my step in the future.

frogman Wrote:ESPN did the same type ranking earlier.
I guess SI followed suit.

I don't remember BC complaining about the academic prestige in the BE before the raid. I hardly believe Miami is known for its academic rigor. I grew up in NYC- none of my councelors pointed me to an ACC school, instead they told me that Syracuse's Newhouse was #1 or #2 for communications- that's where I went. Syr's Maxwell School of Citizenship is also highly ranked. Certainly higher for comm. than anything BC has to offer.

Agreed. Every university has programs where they are stronger than others. So if you indicated you wanted communications as your major, then pointing you to Syracuse was definitely smart.

But, if you have a son or daughter now who indicated they wanted to major in Engineering, then the counselor wouldn't be doing their jobs if they didn't recommend Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, Maryland, North Carolina State and Duke as universities to explore.

Quote:Of course the BC fans are going to say they are better off academically. What else would they say?

Ah, but that wasn't your contention in the earlier post. You indicated that you hadn't heard any BC fan mention their academic prestige being elevated as a result of going to the ACC. That has not been my experience with BC fans at all. Just wanted to set the record straight, that while money is numero uno, academic affiliation is also a consideration.

Don't be surprised to see in a few years Louisville, Cincinnati, and South Florida fans talking about how being in the Big East has helped raise their academic prestige/perception.

Quote:BC, UM and VT were hardly known as the academic giants of the BE but I do believe BC was the best of the three and probably improved the academic prestige of the ACC.

Actually, the academic stalwarts of the old BE bb league were Georgetown, BC, Syracuse and Pitt. Villanova belongs in the conversation here somewhat, but since they refuse to categorize themselves as a national university (and the commitment to doctoral programs that would require), they are content being the Top Liberal Arts College in the northeast. And while this is probably east coast bias talking, if you are the Top Liberal Arts College in the northeast, you are the Top Liberal Arts College in the nation in my book.

Miami's and VT's academic reputations increased while in the Big East, but I believe both entered the league as low Tier 2. So it's not as though they were dreadful either. Miami was actually nicely regarded in terms of academics, but in terms of athletic academics they had a major black mark, so its overall academic standing was colored by this.

I see a similarity in this between Miami and Cincinnati. If people could get past the wrong perception of Cincinnati's athletics academic performance they just might discover the improvements that have been made overall academically as an institution.

And of all the Big East institutions who ever were, the one institution to produce the most Rhode Scholars is still West Virginia.

Quote:I don't think the BE would take UM back.

Then perhaps you haven't really given this much thought?

Quote:We have USF and are probably looking at UCF- that's good enough. UM's days as a "king" may be over as may be FSU's, which has declined steadly over a number of years. USF has the better coach anyways.

Again, perhaps this is NOW type of thinking? Ask USF fans if they would rather have UCF or Miami in the league as their Florida traveling partner and 'rival'. Considering they are hoping for a perennial series with Miami and are ending their series with UCF, I would think that should give us all an idea as to where the institution of USF stands on this issue.

Quote:I do think we'd take BC back and in a heartbeat because of TV market share. UM only gives us a presence in talent rich Florida and we have that now without them.

A UM-USF combo would give the BEast 'a claim' on the middle of Florida all the way down to Miami, where the majority of Florida's vast population resides regionally. That's an awful lot of TV households.

Quote:Most high school students were in elementary school the last time FSU was great. Without an article like SI's or ESPN's, they probably would never know FSU was a king. They probably watched WVU/UofL last year with most of the country and maybe even got to see UofL demolish the Candycanes, ugh, Hurricanes also.

Of course I did. And the minute they stomped on the Cardinal, I knew they were in trouble. But demeaning Miami based on one season kind of diminishes Louisville's victory somewhat, right?

That's the problem with NOW thinking, imho.

Quote:Good to know you're a true BE man. I am new to these boards so I'll just watch my step in the future.

No problem. No offense taken.

Fun posting with you, especially since you are another Syracuse fan.

Cheers,
Neil

frogman Wrote:I don't think the BE would take UM back. We have USF and are probably looking at UCF- that's good enough.

wow you just lost all sorts of credibility w/ that comment, but you're a true big east fan so i'll just pretend i didn't read that.

don't worry about omni he's just trying to count out all of the loot his program's going to get when they jump to the big ten j/k

Omnicarrier wrote:
"But, if you have a son or daughter now who indicated they wanted to major in Engineering, then the counselor wouldn't be doing their jobs if they didn't recommend Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, Maryland, North Carolina State and Duke as universities to explore."

I'd hope Cornell and MIT would lead the list. I honestly wouldn't be impressed with any of the ACC schools listed.

buckaineer Wrote:

Bearcat T Wrote:Either way as long as the Big East would say only lose one team like Rutgers or Syracuse you just add Memphis and or UCF. I do no think you lose that much unless UL or WVU leaves. Rutgers B-Ball and Syracuse football can be replaced. I do not want anyone to leave but it does not kill the Big East for sure. Right now UL would be #1 not to lose and WVU a close 2nd ....then the rest of us are all in a pack.

Not sure how you are determining this. If Syracuse, Rutgers, Pitt, WVU or Louisville leave the BE, you can kiss the BCS goodbye for the league. This would be the kiss of death. You could add all the Memphis, ECU's etc., but that isn't going to keep a BCS berth or hold the league together.

Syracuse has won national championships in football, is a founding member of the conference and has had great teams over several decades up until recently. Even a bad Syracuse last year had a highly ranked Big Televen Iowa on the ropes until they lost by a point or two in triple OT. Memphis would be nowhere near SU in football in the minds of the media and other BCS leagues. Rutgers is developing quickly into a top level program and could become a power in the east with continued on field success.

You can't just replace these programs with any team and think everything would be ok--it could be a death blow to the conference in fact. Programs like WVU, Pitt and Louisville might have to strongly consider going back to independent status in football if Rutgers or SU left. I'm certain they'd all be lobbying hard to get into other BCS leagues-they would have to.

I think the days of the BE losing their BCS bid are gone Bucky. Although I would say losing Syracuse would sting more than Rutgers from a historical and tradition standpoint and that is not a slight against the Scarlet Knights.

Memphis or UCF could replace either program and the BE wouldn't miss a beat.

frogman Wrote:Omnicarrier wrote:
"But, if you have a son or daughter now who indicated they wanted to major in Engineering, then the counselor wouldn't be doing their jobs if they didn't recommend Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, Maryland, North Carolina State and Duke as universities to explore."

I'd hope Cornell and MIT would lead the list. I honestly wouldn't be impressed with any of the ACC schools listed.

Well, on the east coast, MIT is a given. . But after that GT is rated above Cornell in terms of their Engineering program, although you can't go wrong with Cornell either.

Cheers,
Neil

USFMike Wrote:

frogman Wrote:I don't think the BE would take UM back. We have USF and are probably looking at UCF- that's good enough.

wow you just lost all sorts of credibility w/ that comment, but you're a true big east fan so i'll just pretend i didn't read that.

don't worry about omni he's just trying to count out all of the loot his program's going to get when they jump to the big ten j/k

Nah, I'm of the firm belief that if the Big Ten comes calling to a Big East team, it would be Rutgers. Syracuse is definitely the darkhorse in this race.

I'm actually hoping the Big Ten is stupid enough to go after Missouri.

It's a win-win situation for the BEast.

Cheers,
Neil