I'll research the Duke numbers, I am 100% about the games in 00 and 01. Maybe a Pirate can help me out.

Wilkie01 Wrote:How does this effect the Big East?

Unless, we are choosing between Memphis, East Carolina or Central Florida?

Please God, make it go away!

It doesn't.

But it's July and the skies are overcast, and I'm bored.

Cheers,
Neil

oasispirate Wrote:Wake Forest and moreso Duke are bigtime beneficaries of having close regional rivals as home games. VT, UNC, NCSU, Clemson, and ECU (when we play there) all inflate both of their attendance numbers.

I have been to ECU games at Duke 3 times. Everytime ECU fans outnumber Duke in their own stadium at a rate of about 4 to 1. I would say there were a minimum of 24000 ECU fans and max of 6000 Duke fans everytime I've been. It's embarrassing.

When we go to WF it's a little more even, but even so it's still probably 15000 ECU fans and 12000 Wake fans.

It's the same way when Clemson, VT, UNC, and NCSU visit. There attendance numbers are vastly inflated by opposing fans.

I have no doubt about the overall point (which is that ECU travels many fans to Duke games), regardless of the number.

I also have no doubt that the rivalries between the colleges in the state and the 'adopted' Clemson also help attendance numbers at all college football games played in North Carolina, and particularly those at Wake Forest and Duke, which are small private colleges.

But still, ECU is approximately the size of UNC and NC State in terms of full-time undergraduate population. And if ECU fans were so much more into football than either UNC or NC State and if ECU fans are so much better at traveling than Wolfpack fans and TarHeel fans, why is ECU lagging behind both in terms of attendance?

Isn't it just possible that fans of those programs actually do care about the games and go to them as well, if not better, than ECU fans?

As a football fan, I have respect for what ECU has accomplished without benefit of a major conference or BCS monies. I also have respect for their fans willingness to travel to away games and bowl games.

Simply focus on those aspects of ECU and continue to improve and don't worry so much about what is happening at Chapel Hill or in Raleigh. Louisville used C-USA as a nice launching point for their program, hopefully ECU and Pirates' fans can do the same. If that happens, the rest will take of itself.

Cheers,
Neil

Argh!!!! Please somebody, just make it stop. :irate:

bitcruncher Wrote:Argh!!!! Please somebody, just make it stop. :irate:

I said I was bored.

Besides, I've decided to try and catch up to you in total number of posts.

Cheers,
Neil

Did that poll come from out of ACC territory? Because if it did I wouldn't believe it on a bet.

omnicarrier Wrote:

oasispirate Wrote:Wake Forest and moreso Duke are bigtime beneficaries of having close regional rivals as home games. VT, UNC, NCSU, Clemson, and ECU (when we play there) all inflate both of their attendance numbers.

I have been to ECU games at Duke 3 times. Everytime ECU fans outnumber Duke in their own stadium at a rate of about 4 to 1. I would say there were a minimum of 24000 ECU fans and max of 6000 Duke fans everytime I've been. It's embarrassing.

When we go to WF it's a little more even, but even so it's still probably 15000 ECU fans and 12000 Wake fans.

It's the same way when Clemson, VT, UNC, and NCSU visit. There attendance numbers are vastly inflated by opposing fans.

I have no doubt about the overall point (which is that ECU travels many fans to Duke games), regardless of the number.

I also have no doubt that the rivalries between the colleges in the state and the 'adopted' Clemson also help attendance numbers at all college football games played in North Carolina, and particularly those at Wake Forest and Duke, which are small private colleges.

But still, ECU is approximately the size of UNC and NC State in terms of full-time undergraduate population. And if ECU fans were so much more into football than either UNC or NC State and if ECU fans are so much better at traveling than Wolfpack fans and TarHeel fans, why is ECU lagging behind both in terms of attendance?

Isn't it just possible that fans of those programs actually do care about the games and go to them as well, if not better, than ECU fans?

As a football fan, I have respect for what ECU has accomplished without benefit of a major conference or BCS monies. I also have respect for their fans willingness to travel to away games and bowl games.

Simply focus on those aspects of ECU and continue to improve and don't worry so much about what is happening at Chapel Hill or in Raleigh. Louisville used C-USA as a nice launching point for their program, hopefully ECU and Pirates' fans can do the same. If that happens, the rest will take of itself.

Cheers,
Neil

First NCSU is much larger than ECU at the moment. 2nd UNC has been larger for longer which means they have more living alumni than ECU.

Also ECU fans tend to leave the area and job market, where as many ECU fans tend to move to Raleigh, Charlotte, DC, etc.

Also UNC and NCSU have the media, so they get a lot more fans that have nothing to do with their universities.

oasispirate Wrote:First NCSU is much larger than ECU at the moment. 2nd UNC has been larger for longer which means they have more living alumni than ECU.

Also ECU fans tend to leave the area and job market, where as many ECU fans tend to move to Raleigh, Charlotte, DC, etc.

Also UNC and NCSU have the media, so they get a lot more fans that have nothing to do with their universities.

Sorry, but the above sounds like excuses, especially the Raleigh part which is basically only about an hour and a half away from Greenville.

In one post you want us to believe that ECU fans travel 24K strong on a consistent basis to Durham (slightly further away than Raleigh) and now in another you want us to believe that ECU fans can't travel from Raleigh, from Charlotte (which while 4 hours away supposedly is crazy about ECU as well), or from the Tidewater Region (less than 3 hours away and another area where Pirates fans say they have support and alum) to ECU for Saturday afternoon football games.

Which is it? Is ECU a crazed football-centric university that is so far above UNC (and slightly above NC State) in terms of their enthusiasm for football or is it not? If it is, distances of less than 4 hours of travel on a Saturday afternoon shouldn't be a problem.

Let's be honest and wrap this up - ECU is stuck out in the boonies away from the population centers of the state and will always have a tough time drawing fans (and dollar support for its university) in comparison with its neighbors in the triangle region until such time that its population and economic strength grows to compete with the other three metro areas of the state.

Until such time, ECU has done a good job under trying circumstances (not being strategically located in the state, not being in a great conference, not having access to the BCS) to develop a small, but rabid following of corps fans that with some more advantages (such as BE membership) - may, and I stress the word MAY - develop into another VT which also faced similar trying circumstances.

Cheers,
Neil

omnicarrier Wrote:

oasispirate Wrote:First NCSU is much larger than ECU at the moment. 2nd UNC has been larger for longer which means they have more living alumni than ECU.

Also ECU fans tend to leave the area and job market, where as many ECU fans tend to move to Raleigh, Charlotte, DC, etc.

Also UNC and NCSU have the media, so they get a lot more fans that have nothing to do with their universities.

Sorry, but the above sounds like excuses, especially the Raleigh part which is basically only about an hour and a half away from Greenville.

In one post you want us to believe that ECU fans travel 24K strong on a consistent basis to Durham (slightly further away than Raleigh) and now in another you want us to believe that ECU fans can't travel from Raleigh, from Charlotte (which while 4 hours away supposedly is crazy about ECU as well), or from the Tidewater Region (less than 3 hours away and another area where Pirates fans say they have support and alum) to ECU for Saturday afternoon football games.

Which is it? Is ECU a crazed football-centric university that is so far above UNC (and slightly above NC State) in terms of their enthusiasm for football or is it not? If it is, distances of less than 4 hours of travel on a Saturday afternoon shouldn't be a problem.

Let's be honest and wrap this up - ECU is stuck out in the boonies away from the population centers of the state and will always have a tough time drawing fans (and dollar support for its university) in comparison with its neighbors in the triangle region until such time that its population and economic strength grows to compete with the other three metro areas of the state.

Until such time, ECU has done a good job under trying circumstances (not being strategically located in the state, not being in a great conference, not having access to the BCS) to develop a small, but rabid following of corps fans that with some more advantages (such as BE membership) - may, and I stress the word MAY - develop into another VT which also faced similar trying circumstances.

Cheers,
Neil

As eastern North Carolina grows in population and the university gains students who will earn greater incomes (medical students, engineering, etc...), ECU will see an increase in attendence.

I agree with your comments about ECU attracting a nice crowd for "being out in the boonies". Eastern North Carolina was ignored for many years as Raleigh (Triangle), Greensboro (Triad), and Charlotte experienced growth and the state's resources. If it wasn't for the state's commitement to ECU, the eastern part of the state would have very little to show.

The 'boonies' are under attack in this country. One day we'll wake up and there won't be any.

bitcruncher Wrote:The 'boonies' are under attack in this country. One day we'll wake up and there won't be any.

Urban sprawl at it finest!

Some part of eastern North Carolina is having a population boom. Some people are moving to the state for retirement. Pitt County (ECU) is experiencing a boom because companies want to be near a major school. Wilmington is experiencing growth for the same reasons. (Although I don't know for sure) I assume Elizabeth City is also experiencing growth.

What is really being hurt in the state is the towns that are slowly dying because the younger population is moving to where jobs are and the older population is dying.

bitcruncher Wrote:The 'boonies' are under attack in this country. One day we'll wake up and there won't be any.

Actually, the reverse is more likely. One day the fortunate few who will get to wake up will find all that's left are the 'boonies'.

Cheers,
Neil

chess Wrote:

bitcruncher Wrote:The 'boonies' are under attack in this country. One day we'll wake up and there won't be any.

Urban sprawl at it finest!

Technically it's suburban sprawl that NC is experiencing. Urban conditions require densities and form that matches an existing urban core, or are developed as a completely new core out of a suburban context. So unless the high urban centers of Raleigh or Charlotte are encroaching on the 'boonies (which we term urban expansion), then the phenomena is suburban sprawl.

At least, as is taught in urban and regional planning programs.

omnicarrier Wrote:

bitcruncher Wrote:The 'boonies' are under attack in this country. One day we'll wake up and there won't be any.

Actually, the reverse is more likely. One day the fortunate few who will get to wake up will find all that's left are the 'boonies'.

Neil, your outlook is depressing. I refuse to believe that mankind will destroy itself. The sun will go nova first.

GunnerFan Wrote:Technically it's suburban sprawl that NC is experiencing. Urban conditions require densities and form that matches an existing urban core, or are developed as a completely new core out of a suburban context. So unless the high urban centers of Raleigh or Charlotte are encroaching on the 'boonies (which we term urban expansion), then the phenomena is suburban sprawl.

At least, as is taught in urban and regional planning programs.

Urban and regional planning programs all specialize in building on brand new sites, or tearing down things to build anew. Nobody maintains, rejuvenates, or renews anything. We have sub-urban sprawl combined with urban decay. How does that help the situation?

No one cares about the teams we play against...that's about all we can say. Our closest rival is Marshall in conference...that game had about 42k. Outside of that, no one else has heard of anyone in our conference. They show up for regional rivals though, which is the reasoning behind our current scheduling philosophy.

If you took our OOC schedule for the next some-odd years and replaced the Conference games with Big East teams, you can go ahead and throw this stupid ass ACC poll out the window because it will be null and void.

I can't believe the Big East fans, after all the ACC underhandedness, are going to invest some belief in a poll run by ACC homers. These guys backroomed your conference to it's knees! Backhanded, good ole' boy, money hungry, cheating criminals...that is who put this poll out.

Yeah, way to think it through, Big East fans. Way to think it through.

bitcruncher Wrote:How do they define markets? Some statistician goes out and draws arbitrary lines around arbitrary groups and say this is a market. Then they draw up arbitrary policies to oversee and guide these arbitrary groupings in the shows and sports events they deem best at the appropriate times.

At least, that's how I see it being done.

It's based on counties closest to the biggest city.

Hummell Wrote:No one cares about the teams we play against...that's about all we can say. Our closest rival is Marshall in conference...that game had about 42k. Outside of that, no one else has heard of anyone in our conference. They show up for regional rivals though, which is the reasoning behind our current scheduling philosophy.

If you took our OOC schedule for the next some-odd years and replaced the Conference games with Big East teams, you can go ahead and throw this stupid ass ACC poll out the window because it will be null and void.

I can't believe the Big East fans, after all the ACC underhandedness, are going to invest some belief in a poll run by ACC homers. These guys backroomed your conference to it's knees! Backhanded, good ole' boy, money hungry, cheating criminals...that is who put this poll out.

Yeah, way to think it through, Big East fans. Way to think it through.

First, Big East fans aren't making the decisions, so it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. When Syracuse was up as an expansion candidate for the ACC, do you think any Orange fan cared what other ACC fans thought of us???

Our worry was, and rightfully so, what the heck are the presidents at Virginia, UNC, and Duke thinking?

Second, I think ECU gets many props from BE fans. Moreso from Eers fans than others, but that is to be expected. And for the most part, ECU fans have been generally well accepted on this board - moreso than UCF fans who come mainly to put down USF.

ECU is a tough sell for me as a Syracuse fan, but then so are UCF and Memphis. Of the three, I have no qualms saying that I favor the Tigers, mainly because I think they have waited the longest. However, I recognize that both UCF and ECU appear to be doing more of the things necessary to get an invite than Memphis.

But that could be because Memphis fans aren't on this board giving us an update everytime someone takes a crap at their institution either. *hint**hint*.

Cheers,
Neil

chess Wrote:What is really being hurt in the state is the towns that are slowly dying because the younger population is moving to where jobs are and the older population is dying.

It is what is happening in Kentucky as well.

Wilkie01 Wrote:

chess Wrote:What is really being hurt in the state is the towns that are slowly dying because the younger population is moving to where jobs are and the older population is dying.

It is what is happening in Kentucky as well.

You aren't saying anything that West Virginians haven't experienced for the last 35 years or so. Jobs in Appalachia are getting scarce - unless you want to work for minimum wage. All the good paying jobs went to China, India, etc. Ross Perot was right when he talked about the giant sucking sound of jobs leaving our country if Congress decided to pass legislation approving NAFTA and outsourcing. They did, and it did...
:domokun:

Wilkie01 Wrote:

chess Wrote:What is really being hurt in the state is the towns that are slowly dying because the younger population is moving to where jobs are and the older population is dying.

It is what is happening in Kentucky as well.

I'm sure this is happening all over the nation.

In Illinois (where I am located), Chicagoland is expanding. I suspect our area will be very similar to the northeast as our communities continue to grow and as people continue to move to the area.