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Edelman wouldn't have made a hill of beans difference. He has played nine games. His average game is 55 percent passing with about 230 total yards and 2 TDs but also nearly 2 TOs per game. That is in nine games against no defenses that were half as good as Va Tech. The defense played great, but if you thought this offense was going to play any better, you were fooling yourself. KSU's best chance to score with Machen at QB was the deep ball (at least he can throw it which Edelman can't). He completed one to Pruden, and he just missed Bayes on one early in the game.

Is Edelman a better option for this KSU team? Yes. Is he a difference maker against a very good defense. No. We saw that against OU. Edelman had a career game against Akron. Take away that game and his throwing stats mirror Machen's as far as his efficiency.

Quote:Thank you, I concur! I know at the very least we would not have been shutout. I believe the kids walked away very proud of their efforts, but i think they'd have gotten alot more out of it had they at least gone on the scoreboard

I concur ditto 1. Edelman could have made a huge difference giving us the option. Martin actually had to put in Rogers to give us a credible QB run threat. That alone speaks to the immobility of Machen. Michael Machen wants to go tot a program that recoginizes his potential. Well, God's speed.

I am going to take this moral victory ( of sorts) and move on.

What is Martin seeing out there that we are not?

How many times did they drop the corner off at least 8 yrds and left the slot about 5 yrds off with a linebacker and a safety splitting the two WR's. Last year he could not get enough of the bubble screens, this year they don't run it when its conducive to getting ahead of the chains. Machen needs to check down more to backs when his 1st and 2nd option is not there..

Great Job by the D. Special teams were better, great strip by kirkland but missed another FG.

Offense......well....futility..

PLAYACTION DOES NOT WORK WHEN YOU CAN NOT RUN. WHY BOTHER THROWING IT IN THE PLAY FAKES WHEN EVERYONE IN AMERICA KNOWS YOUR PASSING. GET INTO THE PLAY!!!!!!!

KStud Wrote:Edelman wouldn't have made a hill of beans difference. He has played nine games. His average game is 55 percent passing with about 230 total yards and 2 TDs but also nearly 2 TOs per game. That is in nine games against no defenses that were half as good as Va Tech. The defense played great, but if you thought this offense was going to play any better, you were fooling yourself. KSU's best chance to score with Machen at QB was the deep ball (at least he can throw it which Edelman can't). He completed one to Pruden, and he just missed Bayes on one early in the game.

Is Edelman a better option for this KSU team? Yes. Is he a difference maker against a very good defense. No. We saw that against OU. Edelman had a career game against Akron. Take away that game and his throwing stats mirror Machen's as far as his efficiency.

I couldn't disagree with you more. We're down 23-0 and ran the ball all fourth quarter, why? Because Machen can't get the ball downfield against that D w/o it getting picked off. Martin was happier getting out of there with a 23-0 loss than to actually open it up and shoot for the endzone, because he obviously had no faith in the QB to get it there and he did not want his turnovers to run that 23-0 up to 44-0 or so. The pass to Pruden was a fluke, Sitko was right there with him as well as the 2 defenders, so something obviously broke down. Why did we quick kick on 3rd down? Because Machen had no chance of moving the ball. The sacks, the fumbles, the INTs, they occured because of Machen's immobility and inability to run this specific offense. When Edleman fumbles or throws an INT it's usually because he trying to make something happen, trying to wiggle for that extra yard on a keeper or by forcing the ball down the middle. How many balls did Machen feed down the middle today? He threw one deep one to Pruden, one 15 yarder to Sitko and that was it. The rest were lobs out in the flats and throw aways while he was getting sacked. Edleman's running abilities and determination to make things happen (sometimes to a fault) stretch this defense out and opens things up all around, especially for Jarvis. I'm not guaranteeing a Win with Edleman today, but I guarantee you they would not have walked away 23-0 and if you think that's wrong I'm wasting my time debating things here.

Bottom line is with Machen running the Offense today our best plays outside of that fluke to Pruden were the keeper by the punter, a pass interference and my favorite the quick kick on 3rd down. :banned:

Lastly, I want to give congrats to the kids on a superb effort today against a superior team. They should keep their heads up and get back in their and smash their way through the next 2 games, and let whatever fall into place. The kids on the line more than held their own against bigger, stronger and faster opponents. I thought Hogan played super and he was against that big monster OT, giving up alot of size to him. As a true freshman I can't wait to watch him mature and develop as a Flash, with some hard work in the weight room this kid will give us alot to cheer about over the next 3 seasons, as will Jarvis on the other side of the ball.

KSU would have lost 44-0 if they kept throwing the ball downfield. Once they were down 23-0, they had no chance to catch up. Why get embarassed? Kent State runs passes in the flat and quick screens because they can't protect the QB. They actually did a decent job until late in the game considering the past two weeks they didn't. Edelman has been a nice spark for the team. But too many people make football about one guy. KSU has five wins this year because they have an above average running game for a MAC school. Unfortunately, they would have needed a great running game against Va Tech. So what if Edelman would have scrambled for six yards occasionally. The only way KSU would have won today is with an exceptional running or passing game. They have neither. They can both be good if everything is clicking. KSU scored 21 points over their last two MAC games, but you think they should have beaten Va Tech 16-13?

It's funny the way you credit Edelman and discredit Machen for the turnovers. The majority of Machen's turnovers last year were because he was taking chances.

You just don't get it...

Quote:I couldn't disagree with you more. We're down 23-0 and ran the ball all fourth quarter, why? Because Machen can't get the ball downfield against that D w/o it getting picked off. Martin was happier getting out of there with a 23-0 loss than to actually open it up and shoot for the endzone, because he obviously had no faith in the QB to get it there and he did not want his turnovers to run that 23-0 up to 44-0 or so. The pass to Pruden was a fluke, Sitko was right there with him as well as the 2 defenders, so something obviously broke down. Why did we quick kick on 3rd down? Because Machen had no chance of moving the ball. The sacks, the fumbles, the INTs, they occured because of Machen's immobility and inability to run this specific offense. When Edleman fumbles or throws an INT it's usually because he trying to make something happen, trying to wiggle for that extra yard on a keeper or by forcing the ball down the middle. How many balls did Machen feed down the middle today? He threw one deep one to Pruden, one 15 yarder to Sitko and that was it. The rest were lobs out in the flats and throw aways while he was getting sacked. Edleman's running abilities and determination to make things happen (sometimes to a fault) stretch this defense out and opens things up all around, especially for Jarvis. I'm not guaranteeing a Win with Edleman today, but I guarantee you they would not have walked away 23-0 and if you think that's wrong I'm wasting my time debating things here.

Bottom line is with Machen running the Offense today our best plays outside of that fluke to Pruden were the keeper by the punter, a pass interference and my favorite the quick kick on 3rd down.

Lastly, I want to give congrats to the kids on a superb effort today against a superior team. They should keep their heads up and get back in their and smash their way through the next 2 games, and let whatever fall into place. The kids on the line more than held their own against bigger, stronger and faster opponents. I thought Hogan played super and he was against that big monster OT, giving up alot of size to him. As a true freshman I can't wait to watch him mature and develop as a Flash, with some hard work in the weight room this kid will give us alot to cheer about over the next 3 seasons, as will Jarvis on the other side of the ball.

:iagree:

I guess I don't get it. I guess I am supposed to think that KSU should have scored a couple touchdowns against a defense ranked third in the country and is giving up 1.1 touchdowns per game after today.

With the offense that scored 0 points and had 4 turnovers in one half with Edelman quarterbacking at Buffalo. I agree the Buffalo second half was uncharacteristic. Things just got out of control. I also agree that Edelman is a better fit. However, people continue to overrate the players. Edelman is not the guy that played against Akron. Maybe two years down the road, he will be.

What I don't agree with is why you have to rip on one player out of 75 and the coach instead of taking solace in the fact KSU played a good team to a virtual standoff before a defensive touchdown late.

But you are right, and I am wrong.

Given the opponent, I think it's fair to say that Kent's defense is for real, and that the Buffalo game was, indeed, an abberation. Hard to expect much out of the offense with their best QB out, given the opponent. Would have been nice to have scored, though, when they had the chance.

Va Tech's defense is good, but when your plays have the creativity and surprise of a Pop Warner you get shutout. The plays being called combined with the QB executing them sets the tempo for the team and game. And we all saw what that resulted in today, that is why it's so easy to single out 2 specific people. I'd rather I wasn't right and we weren't discussing how a wide-out playing QB,a punter running the ball,a pass interference call and a QB quick-kicking on 3rd down were some of the few brights spots from our offense today. I see others have agreed with my assesments here so at least I can feel confident I am not the one not getting it.

I'm done here beating this dead horse. Time to think positively about the 2 games in front of us. We have a chance to finish up strong and let people know those wins weren't a fluke.

It is not about "getting it"
Every game has multiple viewpoints. That is why these game threads have a couple hundred posts sometimes.

I guess the reason this discussion started is I thought you were being too hard on Machen. It is not as if he was the sole reason they didn't beat or even score against Va Tech, IMO. I guess we will leave it at that.

I was happy that when I went to watch the game at the bar that I could keep watching into the second half rather than leave at halftime which I figured I would do.

KStud Wrote:It is not about "getting it"
Every game has multiple viewpoints. That is why these game threads have a couple hundred posts sometimes.

I guess the reason this discussion started is I thought you werbad e being too hard on Machen. It is not as if he was the sole reason they didn't beat or even score against Va Tech, IMO. I guess we will leave it at that.

I was happy that when I went to watch the game at the bar that I could keep watching into the second half rather than leave at halftime which I figured I would do.

I agree, i was at the game and i will take it a step further and say machen didnt do a bad job at all. the turnover for a td was not all his fault he had zero protection on that play. overall he was solid. that being said our d showed up big time and if edelman couldve played we might hav e seen a different game. anyways it was fun

GO FLASHES!!!!!!

6-16 with 98 yards, 6 carries for -17 yards, an INT, several fumbles, 1 returned for a TD, another converted for a FG, and a total inability to move the ball is a solid performance?

I don't like the term moral victory, but being shorthanded on offense they could have folded in front of one of the loudest crowds I have ever heard on a radio broadcast. That place must have been nuts. I could hardly hear Linder.

They showed heart, guts, pride and ability in holding the 20th ranked team in the nation to 23 points and only 6 in the first half. Mistakes kept it from looking more competitive, but well done men! Keep your heads up and take it out on EMU and BSU. The season isn't over and you haven't quit so neither will I.

GO FLASHES!!



7-5!!!!!!

Polish Hammer Wrote:6-16 with 98 yards, 6 carries for -17 yards, an INT, several fumbles, 1 returned for a TD, another converted for a FG, and a total inability to move the ball is a solid performance?

considering its his first start in that stadium with those fans and agaisnt that defense, yes.

you have to be realistic, did you really think we were going to go in there with our backup qb and march up and down the field against the best defense we have faced all year????

The fans at va tech were loud, as loud and into it as any fans I have seen this year and I have been to games at OSU and Notre Dame. They didnt care who their opponent was, they were loud, they stood up and they didnt stop the whole game. from where I was sitting I was very impressed and for a backup qb in his first start, other than the fumble for a td, he didnt put us in a position to completely lose the game.

flashgrad03 Wrote:for a backup qb in his first start, other than the fumble for a td, he didnt put us in a position to completely lose the game.

He may now be the 'backup QB' for all the same reasons that further prove my point, however he is far more experienced and suited to handling that crowd than the starter. His turnovers directly led to at least 10 points, considering he couldn't put us in a position to win either, yet alone score, I'll have to disagree with that last comment. I just watched the game again just to be sure and now I'm certain.

I watched the game today again and still Martin does not understand that a 6'6" QB does not boot to his left and make throws with his right arm without setting his feet.

I am not baggin on Machen but as a coach, you need to put your players in the best possible position to be productive. That means stay ahead of the chains.

How many 2 and Long and 3rd and long yesterday... A ton. when that happens, half of Martin's playbook is out the window. I actually think that Jarvis had some good runs but there were som running lanes that he missed.

Offense is not all to blame, defense gave up a lot of 3rd down conversions. Even though they held VTech to 16 points which is awesome but there is always room for improvement.

I am waiting for Martin to improve..

I agree Edelman would have gave Flashes a much improved chance of moving the rock more steadily and chewing some clock up with some runs. The offense did have the ball most of the 3rd quarter and Defense was rested but this is a game that could have been closer.

The Flash Wrote:I don't like the term moral victory, but being shorthanded on offense they could have folded in front of one of the loudest crowds I have ever heard on a radio broadcast. That place must have been nuts. I could hardly hear Linder.

They showed heart, guts, pride and ability in holding the 20th ranked team in the nation to 23 points and only 6 in the first half. Mistakes kept it from looking more competitive, but well done men! Keep your heads up and take it out on EMU and BSU. The season isn't over and you haven't quit so neither will I.

GO FLASHES!!



7-5!!!!!!

:iagree:

4 Comments:

1: VT has THE MOST gracious and respectful fan base of any group I have ever met. It was a PLEASURE to go to their campus for a game, even though we lost. Walking 3 miles to my car in a downpour afterwards,was a little harder...

2: Flash: it wasn't a fluke of the radio. When 66+ thousand fans roar, it is thunder, and at times it feels like the stadium is going to come crashing down underneath you. Immense power, and if you call your fan base your twelth man, they had a 6,000 ton gorilla for a twelth man. :domokun: (It's also hillarious to see 60,000 people stand up and try to do the hokey-pokey. For that reason alone, I understand why they don't sell beer in the stadium.)

3: As hard as it was for our team to lose, from where I sat, they looked good. Yes, that includes the O. We needed less up the middle with Jarvis because the VT line was EXPECTING it, and the line wasn't dissapointed. Either a hole needs to be held, or Jarvis is going to have to cut a corner, and the QB needs to misdirect more. More passing, bombs are great and a couple came OHSOCLOSE, but a few short-and-quicks right past the line could have been a turnaround. Oh, and that fake kick and toss was truly a beauty.

4: I know, sour grapes, but I think VT had a thirteenth man (or twelth secondary?). There was some serious hometown calls that were mighty iffy, and some blatant crap that happend right in front of the officials. Watching a ref leave in his shiny new car with the X-REF liscense plate made me just a tad grumpy and meanspirited. But, hey. I got over it. And keeping with the respectfulness of the VT fans, I didn't even holler anything. Thanks for reminding me of my manners, VT fans.

All in all, I think it was a good game, and I look forward to next week's. We have the DIX, we'll have an improved and healthier O, and a pretty kick-butt D, and I agree with Flash: 7-5!