(06-27-2017 09:41 PM)Swede Owl Wrote:  Highly controversial interference call on a double play erases the tying run

Looks like the right call, but wow, to take away the tying run in what may be the final game...yeesh. Dumb slide by LSU's Slaughter

How was that controversial? It was a blatant illegal slide to take out the 2B. The ump had to call that; it wasn't even a close call. It was a dirty play. Period.

(06-27-2017 09:44 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  Man U of LS has some classless players and fans.

Go Gators!

And this is new news?

(06-27-2017 09:47 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(06-27-2017 09:44 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  Man U of LS has some classless players and fans.

Go Gators!

And this is new news?

No, but they are reinforcing it on national television.

5-1 Florida and the U of LS fans are leaving in droves. Classless!

Congrats to the Gators!

(06-27-2017 09:46 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(06-27-2017 09:41 PM)Swede Owl Wrote:  Highly controversial interference call on a double play erases the tying run

Looks like the right call, but wow, to take away the tying run in what may be the final game...yeesh. Dumb slide by LSU's Slaughter

How was that controversial? It was a blatant illegal slide to take out the 2B. The ump had to call that; it wasn't even a close call. It was a dirty play. Period.

Oh, you're right, no one is discussing it. Yep.

(06-27-2017 10:32 PM)Swede Owl Wrote:  

(06-27-2017 09:46 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(06-27-2017 09:41 PM)Swede Owl Wrote:  Highly controversial interference call on a double play erases the tying run

Looks like the right call, but wow, to take away the tying run in what may be the final game...yeesh. Dumb slide by LSU's Slaughter

How was that controversial? It was a blatant illegal slide to take out the 2B. The ump had to call that; it wasn't even a close call. It was a dirty play. Period.

Oh, you're right, no one is discussing it. Yep.

Sure, they're all discussing it, but NO ONE-- not the online pundits, not the announcers-- are claiming that the call was not the correct one. Consequently, it's not controversial. It was an obvious call that simply had to be made.

BTW, for those who didn't tune in, down 2-1 with no outs in the 7th inning, with one run already scored in the 7th, LSU had back to back innings with runners on 1B and 3B with no outs, and failed to score both times. They went down quietly in the 9th after the Gators blew the game open in the bottom of the 8th.

Sure, let's go with that. A quick check of the internet might disabuse you of such a categorical statement, but, sure, let's go with that.

Ahem... https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbssports...versy/amp/

Maybe that word doesn't mean what you think it means?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.seccoun...ey-run/amp

I guess you didn't read the part where I said that it looked like the right call. What I think or you think doesn't change whether it's viewed as controversial. That's just how "controversy" works.

Leave it to owlzone to devolve to an argument about what constitutes controversy.

There are rules and unwritten rules, and rules that folks are accustomed to violating without consequence (dare I mention speed limits?), and there are rules that people are only interested in when it benefits their side (dare I mention US Congress?).

This is probably somewhere between the latter two.

Walt and Swede are certainly in agreement that the rules were applied correctly. What makes the situation controversial is that LSU fans are unhappy with the situation and use complaints about rules as an outlet of that frustration, and they will certainly do that for months and/or years....

I was surprised to hear Kyle P say that the rule about sliding into second had changed. It used to be that you couldn't slide past the bag, but now you can? The way I remember the rule you have to slide directly into the bag and not slide past. When did that change?

(06-27-2017 10:15 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  5-1 Florida and the U of LS fans are leaving in droves. Classless!

One of my favorite Owl memories is of the long streams of orange-clad Longhorn fans leaving the stadium in the seventh inning.

(06-28-2017 08:08 AM)grol Wrote:  I was surprised to hear Kyle P say that the rule about sliding into second had changed. It used to be that you couldn't slide past the bag, but now you can? The way I remember the rule you have to slide directly into the bag and not slide past. When did that change?

I don't know when it changed, but it's now written to allow the the runner to go over the target base and past it in a straight line from the prior base. Runners can slide straight at the base or to the side away from the defender. In either direction, they cannot keep their foot high or wide to trip the defender.

(06-28-2017 09:20 AM)franklyconfused Wrote:  

(06-28-2017 08:08 AM)grol Wrote:  I was surprised to hear Kyle P say that the rule about sliding into second had changed. It used to be that you couldn't slide past the bag, but now you can? The way I remember the rule you have to slide directly into the bag and not slide past. When did that change?

I don't know when it changed, but it's now written to allow the the runner to go over the target base and past it in a straight line from the prior base. Runners can slide straight at the base or to the side away from the defender. In either direction, they cannot keep their foot high or wide to trip the defender.

Correct.

Here's the entire rule:

Quote:NCAA Force-Play-Slide Rule (NCAA Rule 8, Section 4):

The intent of the force-play-slide rule is to ensure the safety of all players. This is a safety and an interference rule. Whether the defense could have completed the double play has no bearing on the applicability of this rule. This rule pertains to a force-play situation at any base, regardless of the number of outs.

a. On any force play, the runner must slide on the ground before the base and in a direct line between the two bases. It is permissible for the slider’s momentum to carry him through the base in the baseline extended. Exception - A runner need not slide directly into a base as long as the runner slides or runs in a direction away from the fielder to avoid making contact or altering the play of the fielder. Interference shall not be called.

1. “On the ground” means either a head-first slide or a slide with one leg and uttock on the ground before the base.

2. “Directly into a base” means the runner’s entire body (feet, legs, trunk and arms) must stay in a straight line between the bases.

b. Contact with a fielder is legal and interference shall not be called if the runner makes a legal slide directly to the base and in the baseline extended.

A.R. - If contact occurs on top of the base as a result of a “pop-up” slide, this contact is legal.

c. Actions by a runner are illegal and interference shall be called if:

1. The runner slides or runs out of the base line in the direction of the fielder and alters the play of a fielder (with or without contact).
2. The runner uses a rolling or cross-body slide and either makes contact with or alters the play of a fielder;
3. The runner’s raised leg makes contact higher than the fielder’s knee when in a standing position;
4. The runner slashes or kicks the fielder with either leg; or
5. The runner illegally slides toward or contacts the fielder even if the fielder makes no attempt to throw to complete a play.

Penalty for 1-5:

1. With less than two outs, the batter-runner, as well as the interfering runner, shall be declared out and no other runner (s) shall advance.
2. With two outs, the interfering runner shall be declared out and no other runner(s) shall advance.
3. If the runner’s slide or collision is flagrant, the runner shall be ejected from the contest.

A.R. - If the bases are loaded with no outs, a double-play attempt is made, and interference is called, all other runners must return to their original bases

Note: "A.R." = "Approved Ruling."

Quote:An Approved Ruling (A.R.) is an official decision of the NCAA Baseball Rules Committee ... regarding a specific rule or part of a rule. It serves to illustrate the spirit and application of the rules.

(06-28-2017 06:25 AM)I45owl Wrote:  Leave it to owlzone to devolve to an argument about what constitutes controversy.

There are rules and unwritten rules, and rules that folks are accustomed to violating without consequence (dare I mention speed limits?), and there are rules that people are only interested in when it benefits their side (dare I mention US Congress?).

This is probably somewhere between the latter two.

Walt and Swede are certainly in agreement that the rules were applied correctly. What makes the situation controversial is that LSU fans are unhappy with the situation and use complaints about rules as an outlet of that frustration, and they will certainly do that for months and/or years....

This reminds me of the obstruction called at third based that "cost" the Red Sox game 3 of the 2013 World Series. It was a no-brainer of a call, perfectly made and perfectly signaled -- and still, there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Here's a pretty good write-up: http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/10647...ction-call

But the Red Sox ultimately won the Series. LSU was knocked out 2 games to none so Florida must have been the better team.

(06-28-2017 05:35 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(06-28-2017 06:25 AM)I45owl Wrote:  Leave it to owlzone to devolve to an argument about what constitutes controversy.

There are rules and unwritten rules, and rules that folks are accustomed to violating without consequence (dare I mention speed limits?), and there are rules that people are only interested in when it benefits their side (dare I mention US Congress?).

This is probably somewhere between the latter two.

Walt and Swede are certainly in agreement that the rules were applied correctly. What makes the situation controversial is that LSU fans are unhappy with the situation and use complaints about rules as an outlet of that frustration, and they will certainly do that for months and/or years....

This reminds me of the obstruction called at third based that "cost" the Red Sox game 3 of the 2013 World Series. It was a no-brainer of a call, perfectly made and perfectly signaled -- and still, there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Here's a pretty good write-up: http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/10647...ction-call

I think this was called correctly by the rule. I don't like the rule as written.

I think there should be:
1) a requirement for actual contact (met here)
2) a requirement that the defensive player actually attempt to complete the DP (met here)
3) a provision that if a runner who was out of the play advances safely, that advance stands (not done here)

So in this case I would like to see that the double play but the tying run scores. I think taking the run off the board is too harsh a penalty.

(06-28-2017 08:13 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I think this was called correctly by the rule. I don't like the rule as written.

I think there should be:
1) a requirement for actual contact (met here)
2) a requirement that the defensive player actually attempt to complete the DP (met here)
3) a provision that if a runner who was out of the play advances safely, that advance stands (not done here)

So in this case I would like to see that the double play but the tying run scores. I think taking the run off the board is too harsh a penalty.

I disagree. The rule is there for safety reasons. The no advance provision removes any and all incentive for a player intentionally taking out the fielder. The LSU runner clearly went straight at the fielder with spikes up. There should be no reward for that.

(06-28-2017 09:28 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(06-28-2017 08:13 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I think this was called correctly by the rule. I don't like the rule as written.

I think there should be:
1) a requirement for actual contact (met here)
2) a requirement that the defensive player actually attempt to complete the DP (met here)
3) a provision that if a runner who was out of the play advances safely, that advance stands (not done here)

So in this case I would like to see that the double play but the tying run scores. I think taking the run off the board is too harsh a penalty.

I disagree. The rule is there for safety reasons. The no advance provision removes any and all incentive for a player intentionally taking out the fielder. The LSU runner clearly went straight at the fielder with spikes up. There should be no reward for that.

100% in agreement with Tomball. Why even have the rule if it reads the way 69 suggested? It's a dirty play and cultprits and their teams should be so penalized.

(06-28-2017 08:08 AM)grol Wrote:  I was surprised to hear Kyle P say that the rule about sliding into second had changed. It used to be that you couldn't slide past the bag, but now you can? The way I remember the rule you have to slide directly into the bag and not slide past. When did that change?

Probably about the time teams started replacing infield dirt with fieldturf. Runners seem to slide forever on that stuff.

(06-28-2017 09:49 PM)texd Wrote:  

(06-28-2017 08:08 AM)grol Wrote:  I was surprised to hear Kyle P say that the rule about sliding into second had changed. It used to be that you couldn't slide past the bag, but now you can? The way I remember the rule you have to slide directly into the bag and not slide past. When did that change?

Probably about the time teams started replacing infield dirt with fieldturf. Runners seem to slide forever on that stuff.

It appears to have changed for the 2007 season. Here's an explanation from the "Baseball 2007" supplement to the NCAA Baseball Rules prepared by the editors of Referee magazine:

Quote:The defensive player will no longer be able to stand on the base in an attempt to draw interference via the force-play slide rule in what is the most significant of the NCAA baseball rule changes for the 2007 season.

With the change, the runner will now be allowed to slide directly into and past the base on a force play, which means defensive players will no longer be able to stand on or behind the bag to make a throw and remain protected.

Runners will still be required to slide before the base in a direct line between the two bases, but they will no longer be required to stop on the bag. Contact with the fielder will be legal (and interference shall not be called) if a runner makes a legal slide into the base and contacts the fielder

Additionally, contact with the fielder or altering the play is no longer required if the runner attempts a cross-body or rolling slide. Those slides are now illegal and will result in an interference call. Runners are now allowed to execute a “popup” slide on the bag.

The force-play slide rule was created as a safety rule to protect the fielder, but Gary Vaught, the coach at the University of Indianapolis and chair of the NCAA Baseball Rules Committee, said the rule will now also protect the safety of the offensive player.

“Our number-one goal is to protect the athlete,” Vaught said. “We didn’t feel we had done a good enough job to protect the runner. How do you tell a person to stop right at the top of the bag?

“Momentum will take you through the bag. We’re just letting (the runner) slide through the bag. It clears up the rule.”

Vaught mentioned that several coaches were teaching fielders to hold the bag while turning a double play in order to draw the interference call.

“What (the change) is going to do is make coaches teach the proper way of turning double plays,” Vaught said. “There are coaches teaching (how to draw interference), and that’s not the intent of the rule. It is to protect the players. We’ve given a lane for the runner to slide through.”

The final tweak to the rule was that contact is required or the play must be altered when the runner runs or slides in the direction of the fielder in order for interference to be called.

Vaught also stressed that the changes were not meant to soften the enforcement of the rule. He stated his committee gets several proposals each year to abolish the rule, but said safety of players far outweighs the cry of “old-school” coaches and players who want the game played the way professionals do.

“We still expect the rule to be called,” Vaught said. “We are still 100 percent against illegal slides and the cleat coming up and slides that are made with the intent of going after the fielder.” ...

In 2009, a diagram was added to show the lane for runners (which extended beyond the base) and the areas to each side in which the fielder was "protected."