(07-12-2024 08:37 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  

(07-12-2024 07:56 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(07-12-2024 07:47 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  It's so cute you think they have to buy him off or kill him to get him out. They can literally just do it if they want to. It's written into the bylaws that the delegates Biden "won" don't have to vote for him, they still have Super Delegates who can go against him, and as I had to find out from a court ruling in 2017 they are not legally obligated to hold a fair primary at all. The DNC lawyers argued in court, and won, that they have every right to decide the candidate in the back rooms and no one running for the office (in that case it was Bernie) has any right or expectation that the process be fair. They can do whatever the hell they want to, stop overthinking this and assuming it's going to take murder or a bribe to get rid of him, basically if Obama and Pelosi really do decide he has to go they can make sure the convention goes however they want it to. No it won't be "democratic" but Dem primaries never have been that and legally don't have to be.

If it's that damn simple, why are Obama and the others panicking?

And no matter what you think, it will still be difficult to get another name on all the state ballots this late. The Dems don't control those rules. It would be simpler if Biden just resigned, the sooner the better.

Btw, one of the pundits who mentioned on air that a bribe would be how the Dems plan to move out Biden (b/c they need it to happen now, not at the convention) was Ari Fleischer. Somehow, I think he has a better handle on this than anybody here, including you.

P.S. You're not the only one who knows the Dems don't really have any rules when it comes to primaries, the convention and the nominating process. It's pretty obvious to anybody who follows politics. So get off your cute little high horse.

I think it is a matter of optics.... Joe stepping down would be noble, diplomatic, dignified etc.... Joe getting ousted by a Dem end around would look really slimy etc...

It is as much a PR problem as it is anything else.

Ultimately the party has to do what it has to do. They are looking for the best way out, and each step from plan A, to plan B, to plan C worse than the last.

Agree. We all know that deep down, they will do what they want to do.

What got certain panties in a wad was nothing more than an opinion from a rational conservative (Fleischer) that I found interesting.

Maybe I should have added the fact that it would be the EASIEST way to get him out. Somehow that went over Bon Boy's head.

As I mentioned earlier, a chef about to publish a book critical of Obama somehow drowned in a small pond while paddleboarding with a life vest on, so...

(07-11-2024 11:08 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(07-11-2024 10:45 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Don't underestimate Joe, Jill and Hunter's resolve as they're backed into a corner. They're noting in real time who their friends and enemies are. They are still smarting from Hunter's trial and allegedly the Obammy's betrayal. I believe they crave power more than money at this point. I also don't believe the delegates, let alone his primary voters, will want to trade Biden for Harris. Like Hillary, she is unliked generally, and unlike Hillary, she is incompetent in all phases of politics.

I think all that is true. But don't underestimate the party elites, either.

I think almost everybody has a price, especially in politics.

And if Joe "voluntarily" resigns, the delegates and voters don't have a choice.

"Voluntarily" is the operative word indeed. All I'm saying is there are as many hurdles and potential headaches for him dropping out with an election just a few months away. The voters [including swing] still need to get behind someone they'll cast their votes for. Who is that exactly? IMO, they're stuck between Biden staying in or Harris taking over the reigns. Biden's poll numbers are close to/within "the margin of error" despite himself. There's also the issue of the $240M war chest that has Biden/Harris's name on it. Again, not our problem thankfully.

(07-12-2024 07:47 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  It's so cute you think they have to buy him off or kill him to get him out. They can literally just do it if they want to. It's written into the bylaws that the delegates Biden "won" don't have to vote for him, they still have Super Delegates who can go against him, and as I had to find out from a court ruling in 2017 they are not legally obligated to hold a fair primary at all. The DNC lawyers argued in court, and won, that they have every right to decide the candidate in the back rooms and no one running for the office (in that case it was Bernie) has any right or expectation that the process be fair. They can do whatever the hell they want to, stop overthinking this and assuming it's going to take murder or a bribe to get rid of him, basically if Obama and Pelosi really do decide he has to go they can make sure the convention goes however they want it to. No it won't be "democratic" but Dem primaries never have been that and legally don't have to be.

Exactly - lol

It would be more likely they'd try something on the Orange Man than Biden

(07-12-2024 09:26 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(07-12-2024 08:37 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  

(07-12-2024 07:56 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(07-12-2024 07:47 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  It's so cute you think they have to buy him off or kill him to get him out. They can literally just do it if they want to. It's written into the bylaws that the delegates Biden "won" don't have to vote for him, they still have Super Delegates who can go against him, and as I had to find out from a court ruling in 2017 they are not legally obligated to hold a fair primary at all. The DNC lawyers argued in court, and won, that they have every right to decide the candidate in the back rooms and no one running for the office (in that case it was Bernie) has any right or expectation that the process be fair. They can do whatever the hell they want to, stop overthinking this and assuming it's going to take murder or a bribe to get rid of him, basically if Obama and Pelosi really do decide he has to go they can make sure the convention goes however they want it to. No it won't be "democratic" but Dem primaries never have been that and legally don't have to be.

If it's that damn simple, why are Obama and the others panicking?

And no matter what you think, it will still be difficult to get another name on all the state ballots this late. The Dems don't control those rules. It would be simpler if Biden just resigned, the sooner the better.

Btw, one of the pundits who mentioned on air that a bribe would be how the Dems plan to move out Biden (b/c they need it to happen now, not at the convention) was Ari Fleischer. Somehow, I think he has a better handle on this than anybody here, including you.

P.S. You're not the only one who knows the Dems don't really have any rules when it comes to primaries, the convention and the nominating process. It's pretty obvious to anybody who follows politics. So get off your cute little high horse.

I think it is a matter of optics.... Joe stepping down would be noble, diplomatic, dignified etc.... Joe getting ousted by a Dem end around would look really slimy etc...

It is as much a PR problem as it is anything else.

Ultimately the party has to do what it has to do. They are looking for the best way out, and each step from plan A, to plan B, to plan C worse than the last.

Agree. We all know that deep down, they will do what they want to do.

What got certain panties in a wad was nothing more than an opinion from a rational conservative (Fleischer) that I found interesting.

Maybe I should have added the fact that it would be the EASIEST way to get him out. Somehow that went over Bon Boy's head.

As I mentioned earlier, a chef about to publish a book critical of Obama somehow drowned in a small pond while paddleboarding with a life vest on, so...

I am sure Hillary is on Barry's speed dial.... so that is not a surprising outcome.

BO: "Hi Hillary it's Barry.... I have a situation."
HC: "Hey Barry how's tricks? What kind of situation?"
BO: "Well, we have someone who works in the circle that may be planning on exposing some stuff Michael and I don't want known."
HC: "That's it! Puh-lease. Give me 15 minutes and I will get back to you with an accident to apply."

BO: "Thanks Hillary, you always know how to handle these things."

(07-12-2024 07:47 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  It's so cute you think they have to buy him off or kill him to get him out. They can literally just do it if they want to. It's written into the bylaws that the delegates Biden "won" don't have to vote for him, they still have Super Delegates who can go against him, and as I had to find out from a court ruling in 2017 they are not legally obligated to hold a fair primary at all. The DNC lawyers argued in court, and won, that they have every right to decide the candidate in the back rooms and no one running for the office (in that case it was Bernie) has any right or expectation that the process be fair. They can do whatever the hell they want to, stop overthinking this and assuming it's going to take murder or a bribe to get rid of him, basically if Obama and Pelosi really do decide he has to go they can make sure the convention goes however they want it to. No it won't be "democratic" but Dem primaries never have been that and legally don't have to be.

Super delegates do not come into play on the first ballot. The first ballot is an open ballot, which means if those who pledged their support to Biden* dont vote for him, everyone knows it. And dems who want Biden* out know thats a big problem. If they could force that first vote to be private, they might have a chance at swaying nearly half of the electors. But as it stands now, Joe has the nomination in the bag, and there is little dems can do.

They can try to force Biden* out.

They can hold a mini-primary to try to undo the results of the real primary.

But unless they can untie Joe's electors, he's going to get the vote on the very first ballot.

And dems now know this. And know that Joe and his family are in dire straights with their crimes, and will not simply hand this over to someone else.

So they are stuck.

Report: Obama and Pelosi Huddling in Emergency Talks on the Biden Problem

Quote:At this point, as our sister site Townhall points out, even former Biden White House Press Secretary Jen Pskai thinks it's a mess, and 99 percent of the staff don't know what the plan is moving forward.

Nów, word comes that Obama and Pelosi have been huddling on what to do about Biden.

CNN says Democrats are looking to the two of them to help get the Democrats out of the mess of the infighting that is currently imploding their campaign efforts.

Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi have spoken privately about Joe Biden and the future of his 2024 campaign. Both the former president and ex-speaker expressed concerns about how much harder they think it’s become for the president to beat Donald Trump. Neither is quite sure what to do.

Democrats are desperate for the dispiriting infighting to end so they can get back to trying to beat the former president. And they’re begging either Obama or Pelosi to help them get there, aware that Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer doesn’t have the trust of Biden and that House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries doesn’t have the depth of relationship to deliver the message.

CNN spoke with more than a dozen members of Congress, operatives and multiple people in touch with both Obama and Pelosi, many of whom say that the end for Biden’s candidacy feels clear and at this point it’s just a matter of how it plays out, even after Thursday night’s news conference.

Pelosi does not see Biden's decision to stay in as final, the report says. Does that mean next comes the push and/or the negotiation?

But Obama’s deepening skepticism about his friend’s ability to win reelection is one of the worst kept secrets in Washington.

When the history of this extraordinary two-week period of American politics is written, the fingerprints of Obama and Pelosi will be far more apparent than currently known, people familiar with the matter tell CNN, as the Democratic elders have served as a guidepost for a party in panic. [....]

“He was the same man we all witnessed at the debate,” Clooney wrote in an essay in The New York Times this week, imploring Biden to step aside.

It was those words that infuriated some Biden loyalists, who suggested that Obama was behind Clooney’s op-ed. The former president, who is friendly with the actor, was aware that it was coming but did not try to stop it. To some Obama defenders, that was a way of preserving his neutrality, but to some Biden loyalists, it was a mark of deep betrayal.

As Matt Vespa at Townhall observes, part of Obama's problem is paralysis by analysis; he was continually overthinking and not getting things done. But they can only go so long in that abyss of indecision here before their time runs out if this report is correct. And the more they play games, the more Biden will dig in his heels, thinking people are against him because that's how he deals with challenges.

Dems Biden* Problem isn't just Joe, its his whole family.

I would be far more concerned if they were still confident because that could only mean they are more than comfortable with the fix being able to cover for this.

Nothing screams “saving democracy” like forcing a candidate out of the race.



These aren’t serious people. Dems are just scum of the earth trash

(07-12-2024 11:43 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(07-12-2024 07:47 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  It's so cute you think they have to buy him off or kill him to get him out. They can literally just do it if they want to. It's written into the bylaws that the delegates Biden "won" don't have to vote for him, they still have Super Delegates who can go against him, and as I had to find out from a court ruling in 2017 they are not legally obligated to hold a fair primary at all. The DNC lawyers argued in court, and won, that they have every right to decide the candidate in the back rooms and no one running for the office (in that case it was Bernie) has any right or expectation that the process be fair. They can do whatever the hell they want to, stop overthinking this and assuming it's going to take murder or a bribe to get rid of him, basically if Obama and Pelosi really do decide he has to go they can make sure the convention goes however they want it to. No it won't be "democratic" but Dem primaries never have been that and legally don't have to be.

Super delegates do not come into play on the first ballot. The first ballot is an open ballot, which means if those who pledged their support to Biden* dont vote for him, everyone knows it. And dems who want Biden* out know thats a big problem. If they could force that first vote to be private, they might have a chance at swaying nearly half of the electors. But as it stands now, Joe has the nomination in the bag, and there is little dems can do.

They can try to force Biden* out.

They can hold a mini-primary to try to undo the results of the real primary.

But unless they can untie Joe's electors, he's going to get the vote on the very first ballot.

And dems now know this. And know that Joe and his family are in dire straights with their crimes, and will not simply hand this over to someone else.

So they are stuck.

If Obama and Pelosi tell those people to vote for someone other than Joe it will happen. Those delegates aren't loyal to Joe Biden in any way. They are very much hoping to not have to do the nuclear option, but they absolutely can the idea that Biden is like Trump and those electors would show undying loyalty to Biden is comical every single one of them would turn their backs on him if the real Dem power brokers tell them it's time to do it.

(07-12-2024 08:56 AM)fsquid Wrote:  Not sure why the conservatives on this board want him out. He's the only one Trump is beating in the polls.

Do you not remember Kumswallow’s presidential campaign? Poll all they want, but once the spotlight is on her they will wish they kept gramps on the ticket.

The real question is after she tanks in about a week, who’s up next?

(07-12-2024 08:56 AM)fsquid Wrote:  Not sure why the conservatives on this board want him out. He's the only one Trump is beating in the polls.

I don't believe every Conservative here wants Joe out of race. I know I don't. What I do believe is every voter who cast a vote for Joe Biden in 51 different primaries deserves to have their voices heard. It isn't George Clooney, Barack Obama or any other elitist's right to disenfranchise Democrat voters.

If some how the party elites get their way, the public appears to be behind Trump.

Biden and Harris have slightly different coalitions, but at the the end of the day, I think Trump gets about the same overall/ nationwide % against each of them. I think this election has a narrow range of outcomes — Trump’s floor I believe is about 47.8-47.9 and his ceiling is only about 1.5 higher than that. I can’t see Biden or Harris exceeding that. Remainder (6.0-8.0) for Kennedy/etc.

So honestly, just from a partisan standpoint, I don’t think it matters if the Dems throw Biden overboard or not.

(07-13-2024 07:53 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Biden and Harris have slightly different coalitions, but at the the end of the day, I think Trump gets about the same overall/ nationwide % against each of them. I think this election has a narrow range of outcomes — Trump’s floor I believe is about 47.8-47.9 and his ceiling is only about 1.5 higher than that. I can’t see Biden or Harris exceeding that. Remainder (6.0-8.0) for Kennedy/etc.

So honestly, just from a partisan standpoint, I don’t think it matters if the Dems throw Biden overboard or not.

I don't think it does, either, b/c the logical replacement has to be Kamala, and whoever they stick in as VP won't matter.

(07-13-2024 07:56 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(07-13-2024 07:53 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  So honestly, just from a partisan standpoint, I don’t think it matters if the Dems throw Biden overboard or not.

I don't think it does, either, b/c the logical replacement has to be Kamala, and whoever they stick in as VP won't matter.

Yes and yes.

If Harris does get to choose a VP, I admit I’d be curious to see what she does. Beshear of Kentucky?

The Democratic Convention in late August is going to be an absolute hoot. Not only will the Dem leadership bounce Biden* off the ticket, I bet they don't even let him speak live at the convention. They MIGHT allow him a pre-recorded message that will be carefully vetted.

The real question is will the Dem leadership allow Jill Biden to speak at the convention? You know they will insist she openly show support for Kamala, LOL. That's a "must see" moment.

The strategic importance of setting aside personal accolades for TEAM triumphs cannot be over-emphasized:

I Get NOWHERE Unless the TEAM Wins!

(07-13-2024 07:53 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Biden and Harris have slightly different coalitions, but at the the end of the day, I think Trump gets about the same overall/ nationwide % against each of them. I think this election has a narrow range of outcomes — Trump’s floor I believe is about 47.8-47.9 and his ceiling is only about 1.5 higher than that. I can’t see Biden or Harris exceeding that. Remainder (6.0-8.0) for Kennedy/etc.

So honestly, just from a partisan standpoint, I don’t think it matters if the Dems throw Biden overboard or not.

Probably, but someone other than Biden just throws a wildcard into the pack.