(04-09-2024 07:37 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(04-09-2024 07:44 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  If you read the Ringer - and I do - here is Kevin O'Connor's breakdown of Edey:

PLUSES
Hard-to-stop interior scorer, not just because of his sheer size but also because of his skill and touch. He does a great job of using his massive frame to seal off positioning and make himself available for interior feeds. He doesn’t have advanced footwork, but his gigantic presence is enhanced by his agility.

Willingly embraces his role, whether playing limited minutes as an underclassman or running the offense through him as a junior and senior. Playing for the Canadian national team last summer, he fully took on responsibility as a screener, something Purdue doesn’t ask of him as often as post-ups.

Intelligent big man with a solid feel for playmaking out of double-teams. He isn’t a savant passer by any means, but he limits mistakes despite receiving so much attention from college defenses.

Keeps the ball high when he catches it near the rim, so he’s not prone to getting stripped.

With a soft touch on hook shots, he could possess standstill shooting upside from the baseline or the corners.

Imposing interior defender with the size and strength to battle against opposing bigs on the post and on the boards.

Durable. He has missed only one game in his college career, in 2022, due to an illness.

MINUSES
Limited defender when pulled away from the basket. He struggles to recover on pick-and-pops and often gets blown by on closeouts. NBA teams will target him even more than college teams do; granted, he’s made improvements in handling pressure at his current level.

Lacks a perimeter game aside from his screening. Though he has soft touch on floaters and a solid free throw percentage for a big, there is no indication that he will develop a spot-up jumper.

Can’t really play an up-and-down, high-tempo game since he’s slower footed in open space.

They have him as the 17th best prospect in the draft.

I love the kid, but I don't see him going anywhere in the NBA. Luka Garza had a better skill set for the Association and we all know about his meteoric career. That game has totally changed, I suspect Shaquille O'Neal would be a total dud today.

I disagree about the Garza comparison.

I think it depends COMPLETELY on who drafts him. Put him next to an athletic big like a Giannis or Chet or Wemby or KD and you can hide his deficiencies and highlight his strengths.

(04-10-2024 07:11 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  

(04-09-2024 07:37 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(04-09-2024 07:44 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  If you read the Ringer - and I do - here is Kevin O'Connor's breakdown of Edey:

PLUSES
Hard-to-stop interior scorer, not just because of his sheer size but also because of his skill and touch. He does a great job of using his massive frame to seal off positioning and make himself available for interior feeds. He doesn’t have advanced footwork, but his gigantic presence is enhanced by his agility.

Willingly embraces his role, whether playing limited minutes as an underclassman or running the offense through him as a junior and senior. Playing for the Canadian national team last summer, he fully took on responsibility as a screener, something Purdue doesn’t ask of him as often as post-ups.

Intelligent big man with a solid feel for playmaking out of double-teams. He isn’t a savant passer by any means, but he limits mistakes despite receiving so much attention from college defenses.

Keeps the ball high when he catches it near the rim, so he’s not prone to getting stripped.

With a soft touch on hook shots, he could possess standstill shooting upside from the baseline or the corners.

Imposing interior defender with the size and strength to battle against opposing bigs on the post and on the boards.

Durable. He has missed only one game in his college career, in 2022, due to an illness.

MINUSES
Limited defender when pulled away from the basket. He struggles to recover on pick-and-pops and often gets blown by on closeouts. NBA teams will target him even more than college teams do; granted, he’s made improvements in handling pressure at his current level.

Lacks a perimeter game aside from his screening. Though he has soft touch on floaters and a solid free throw percentage for a big, there is no indication that he will develop a spot-up jumper.

Can’t really play an up-and-down, high-tempo game since he’s slower footed in open space.

They have him as the 17th best prospect in the draft.

I love the kid, but I don't see him going anywhere in the NBA. Luka Garza had a better skill set for the Association and we all know about his meteoric career. That game has totally changed, I suspect Shaquille O'Neal would be a total dud today.

I disagree about the Garza comparison.

I think it depends COMPLETELY on who drafts him. Put him next to an athletic big like a Giannis or Chet or Wemby or KD and you can hide his deficiencies and highlight his strengths.

Agree. I don't know where (in the 1st round) I think he should go, but if I were a GM and had a pick say #11 - 20 I'd pick him.

(04-10-2024 11:12 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(04-10-2024 07:11 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  

(04-09-2024 07:37 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(04-09-2024 07:44 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  If you read the Ringer - and I do - here is Kevin O'Connor's breakdown of Edey:

PLUSES
Hard-to-stop interior scorer, not just because of his sheer size but also because of his skill and touch. He does a great job of using his massive frame to seal off positioning and make himself available for interior feeds. He doesn’t have advanced footwork, but his gigantic presence is enhanced by his agility.

Willingly embraces his role, whether playing limited minutes as an underclassman or running the offense through him as a junior and senior. Playing for the Canadian national team last summer, he fully took on responsibility as a screener, something Purdue doesn’t ask of him as often as post-ups.

Intelligent big man with a solid feel for playmaking out of double-teams. He isn’t a savant passer by any means, but he limits mistakes despite receiving so much attention from college defenses.

Keeps the ball high when he catches it near the rim, so he’s not prone to getting stripped.

With a soft touch on hook shots, he could possess standstill shooting upside from the baseline or the corners.

Imposing interior defender with the size and strength to battle against opposing bigs on the post and on the boards.

Durable. He has missed only one game in his college career, in 2022, due to an illness.

MINUSES
Limited defender when pulled away from the basket. He struggles to recover on pick-and-pops and often gets blown by on closeouts. NBA teams will target him even more than college teams do; granted, he’s made improvements in handling pressure at his current level.

Lacks a perimeter game aside from his screening. Though he has soft touch on floaters and a solid free throw percentage for a big, there is no indication that he will develop a spot-up jumper.

Can’t really play an up-and-down, high-tempo game since he’s slower footed in open space.

They have him as the 17th best prospect in the draft.

I love the kid, but I don't see him going anywhere in the NBA. Luka Garza had a better skill set for the Association and we all know about his meteoric career. That game has totally changed, I suspect Shaquille O'Neal would be a total dud today.

I disagree about the Garza comparison.

I think it depends COMPLETELY on who drafts him. Put him next to an athletic big like a Giannis or Chet or Wemby or KD and you can hide his deficiencies and highlight his strengths.

Agree. I don't know where (in the 1st round) I think he should go, but if I were a GM and had a pick say #11 - 20 I'd pick him.

Guys, I hope you are right, I like Zach Edey, he is a class act. He just seems like another Luka Garza, Drew Timmie or James Wiseman in the NBA to me.

Our friend Mo Njie is back in the portal.

(04-10-2024 08:21 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  Our friend Mo Njie is back in the portal.

That is interesting, Luckey. Thanks for sharing!

If he was interested in coming back to EMU, I would welcome it due to the lack of depth we have in the frontcourt. But would prefer a younger guy who can play at least a couple years with EMU since both Jihad and Billingsley will exhaust eligibility next year.

(04-10-2024 08:21 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  Our friend Mo Njie is back in the portal.

Did his check bounce?

Source: NCAA could OK new transfer eligibility rule at next meeting

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/stor...eport-says

'In December, the NCAA proposed this policy in reaction to a West Virginia judge's ruling that intended to stop the organization from enforcing its bylaw barring athletes from transferring multiple times and playing right way. The NCAA agreed to terms on a preliminary injunction that runs through at least the end of the academic year.'

The courts gave the NFL free agency and theyre pretty much doing the same thing in college

(04-12-2024 01:46 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  Source: NCAA could OK new transfer eligibility rule at next meeting

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/stor...eport-says

'In December, the NCAA proposed this policy in reaction to a West Virginia judge's ruling that intended to stop the organization from enforcing its bylaw barring athletes from transferring multiple times and playing right way. The NCAA agreed to terms on a preliminary injunction that runs through at least the end of the academic year.'

The courts gave the NFL free agency and theyre pretty much doing the same thing in college

What? Or NFL FA isn't the same as NCAA "free agency."

Can NFL players change teams every year? Isn't the system 'blended' where there is an initial contract and then they can become restricted or unrestricted FAs.

No prospect worth his salt would be offered a 1-year contract out of college. As crazy as it seems but a UDFA might be offered a multi-year contract even though he is a long shot to make the team. The reason, if he pans out who wants to lose him in a year. And these UDFA contracts aren't guaranteed so no risk to the team.

Don't you think Caleb Williams will be tied up by the Bears for what about 5 years?

(04-10-2024 08:21 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  Our friend Mo Njie is back in the portal.

No thanks. Don't need an SMU bench warmer for one season. I'm sure Stan and a bunch of other coaches will feel the same way. Good luck to Mo in the GLIAC. .

(04-12-2024 02:34 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(04-12-2024 01:46 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  Source: NCAA could OK new transfer eligibility rule at next meeting

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/stor...eport-says

'In December, the NCAA proposed this policy in reaction to a West Virginia judge's ruling that intended to stop the organization from enforcing its bylaw barring athletes from transferring multiple times and playing right way. The NCAA agreed to terms on a preliminary injunction that runs through at least the end of the academic year.'

The courts gave the NFL free agency and theyre pretty much doing the same thing in college

What? Or NFL FA isn't the same as NCAA "free agency."

Can NFL players change teams every year? Isn't the system 'blended' where there is an initial contract and then they can become restricted or unrestricted FAs.

No prospect worth his salt would be offered a 1-year contract out of college. As crazy as it seems but a UDFA might be offered a multi-year contract even though he is a long shot to make the team. The reason, if he pans out who wants to lose him in a year. And these UDFA contracts aren't guaranteed so no risk to the team.

Don't you think Caleb Williams will be tied up by the Bears for what about 5 years?

Right - after a player gets so many years of service they earn the right to be free agents.

I believe that schools will begin offering something resembling contracts to players to ensure that they do not leave after one or two years. To do this athletes would need to be considered employees of the universities OR some unified outside entity. This is the direction we're going fella's. You can't stop progress.

(04-12-2024 03:19 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  Right - after a player gets so many years of service they earn the right to be free agents.

I believe that schools will begin offering something resembling contracts to players to ensure that they do not leave after one or two years. To do this athletes would need to be considered employees of the universities OR some unified outside entity. This is the direction we're going fella's. You can't stop progress.

It’s the same circular debate we were in earlier in the thread. Are player’s signing their own independent NIL deals? Or are they being paid to play?

If it is a pay to play scenario, then EMU has no ethical right to pay its own players since the athletic department is subsidized by the student fees/tuition.

(04-13-2024 03:06 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(04-12-2024 03:19 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  Right - after a player gets so many years of service they earn the right to be free agents.

I believe that schools will begin offering something resembling contracts to players to ensure that they do not leave after one or two years. To do this athletes would need to be considered employees of the universities OR some unified outside entity. This is the direction we're going fella's. You can't stop progress.

It’s the same circular debate we were in earlier in the thread. Are player’s signing their own independent NIL deals? Or are they being paid to play?

If it is a pay to play scenario, then EMU has no ethical right to pay its own players since the athletic department is subsidized by the student fees/tuition.

So in the short term yes players are only making money from outside / unaffiliated NIL deals. I cannot imagine it will stay that way for more than another couple years.

(04-14-2024 07:07 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  

(04-13-2024 03:06 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(04-12-2024 03:19 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  Right - after a player gets so many years of service they earn the right to be free agents.

I believe that schools will begin offering something resembling contracts to players to ensure that they do not leave after one or two years. To do this athletes would need to be considered employees of the universities OR some unified outside entity. This is the direction we're going fella's. You can't stop progress.

It’s the same circular debate we were in earlier in the thread. Are player’s signing their own independent NIL deals? Or are they being paid to play?

If it is a pay to play scenario, then EMU has no ethical right to pay its own players since the athletic department is subsidized by the student fees/tuition.

So in the short term yes players are only making money from outside / unaffiliated NIL deals. I cannot imagine it will stay that way for more than another couple years.

Do you believe EMU should “pay their players” even though their programs run a deficit?

(04-15-2024 09:41 AM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(04-14-2024 07:07 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  

(04-13-2024 03:06 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(04-12-2024 03:19 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  Right - after a player gets so many years of service they earn the right to be free agents.

I believe that schools will begin offering something resembling contracts to players to ensure that they do not leave after one or two years. To do this athletes would need to be considered employees of the universities OR some unified outside entity. This is the direction we're going fella's. You can't stop progress.

It’s the same circular debate we were in earlier in the thread. Are player’s signing their own independent NIL deals? Or are they being paid to play?

If it is a pay to play scenario, then EMU has no ethical right to pay its own players since the athletic department is subsidized by the student fees/tuition.

So in the short term yes players are only making money from outside / unaffiliated NIL deals. I cannot imagine it will stay that way for more than another couple years.

Do you believe EMU should “pay their players” even though their programs run a deficit?

I believe athletes - at EMU and otherwise - should be able to bargain - either collectively or individually - with organizations that their labor enriches for better compensation and or better conditions. Whether that be schools, TV networks, or the NCAA at large is immaterial to me.

(04-15-2024 09:53 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  

(04-15-2024 09:41 AM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(04-14-2024 07:07 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  

(04-13-2024 03:06 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(04-12-2024 03:19 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  Right - after a player gets so many years of service they earn the right to be free agents.

I believe that schools will begin offering something resembling contracts to players to ensure that they do not leave after one or two years. To do this athletes would need to be considered employees of the universities OR some unified outside entity. This is the direction we're going fella's. You can't stop progress.

It’s the same circular debate we were in earlier in the thread. Are player’s signing their own independent NIL deals? Or are they being paid to play?

If it is a pay to play scenario, then EMU has no ethical right to pay its own players since the athletic department is subsidized by the student fees/tuition.

So in the short term yes players are only making money from outside / unaffiliated NIL deals. I cannot imagine it will stay that way for more than another couple years.

Do you believe EMU should “pay their players” even though their programs run a deficit?

I believe athletes - at EMU and otherwise - should be able to bargain - either collectively or individually - with organizations that their labor enriches for better compensation and or better conditions. Whether that be schools, TV networks, or the NCAA at large is immaterial to me.

That is a fair point. And feel that right should extend to everyone for that matter… I just have so much more sympathy for working stiffs and the impoverished who are not in a position to assert that right… In any case, we will see how this all turns out, but players compensation at EMU likely will not change all that much. If it does change compensation for players at schools like Michigan or Michigan State, more power to them.

I am 100% on board with players negotiating NIL independent of their universities. You opened my eyes to this, which I appreciate. “Pay for play” is a much different and more complicated question for college athletics in general but especially for a school like EMU. If we have some boosters who want to pay players, that’s their money. If the university wants to pay players directly subsidized by tax payer dollar and student tuitions,I don’t see how anyone can sympathize with that.

(04-15-2024 11:59 AM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(04-15-2024 09:53 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  

(04-15-2024 09:41 AM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(04-14-2024 07:07 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  

(04-13-2024 03:06 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  It’s the same circular debate we were in earlier in the thread. Are player’s signing their own independent NIL deals? Or are they being paid to play?

If it is a pay to play scenario, then EMU has no ethical right to pay its own players since the athletic department is subsidized by the student fees/tuition.

So in the short term yes players are only making money from outside / unaffiliated NIL deals. I cannot imagine it will stay that way for more than another couple years.

Do you believe EMU should “pay their players” even though their programs run a deficit?

I believe athletes - at EMU and otherwise - should be able to bargain - either collectively or individually - with organizations that their labor enriches for better compensation and or better conditions. Whether that be schools, TV networks, or the NCAA at large is immaterial to me.

That is a fair point. And feel that right should extend to everyone for that matter… I just have so much more sympathy for working stiffs and the impoverished who are not in a position to assert that right… In any case, we will see how this all turns out, but players compensation at EMU likely will not change all that much. If it does change compensation for players at schools like Michigan or Michigan State, more power to them.

I am 100% on board with players negotiating NIL independent of their universities. You opened my eyes to this, which I appreciate. “Pay for play” is a much different and more complicated question for college athletics in general but especially for a school like EMU. If we have some boosters who want to pay players, that’s their money. If the university wants to pay players directly subsidized by tax payer dollar and student tuitions,I don’t see how anyone can sympathize with that.

Yeah I mean one of the red herrings in this is the ideal that this compensation would EVER be equal across the board. Of course it isnt. A player attending Alabama or Notre Dame or USC has a lot more to bargain for than a player at EMU or CMU or WMU who has a lot more to bargain for than a player at Framingham State or Bridgewater State or Firtchburg State (all real div II schools in Massachusetts that offer football). The same goes for different sports. Yeah football players command more bargaining power than say a diver or cross country runner. Is it fair? Sure. Dr Pepper doesnt sponsor fansville for diving (i would watch the hell out of those ads though).

(04-15-2024 12:19 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  Yeah I mean one of the red herrings in this is the ideal that this compensation would EVER be equal across the board. Of course it isnt. A player attending Alabama or Notre Dame or USC has a lot more to bargain for than a player at EMU or CMU or WMU who has a lot more to bargain for than a player at Framingham State or Bridgewater State or Firtchburg State (all real div II schools in Massachusetts that offer football). The same goes for different sports. Yeah football players command more bargaining power than say a diver or cross country runner. Is it fair? Sure. Dr Pepper doesnt sponsor fansville for diving (i would watch the hell out of those ads though).

Responding to only last comment to condense the thread a bit…

So the MAC has a $8,000,000 a year tv deal (as far as I can tell). That is $666,666 per team. Say the players are entitled to negotiate for percentage of that. Assuming 98 players (85 football scholarships, 13 basketball scholarships, walkons get nothing), if they can negotiate 1% of that that is $68 per year per player. The share of wealth for EMU’s level of athlete is negligible- it would be $6.80 per year for someone at Framingham State.

If Michigan players wanted the same arbitrary/hypothetical 1% share of the $229,000,000 revenue that their athletic department brought in. Then it would be distributed as $23,854 per year per 98 scholarship football and basketball players. Scholarships would still be the primary form of compensation for most of these players.

I understand your points. But I just don’t think there is this vast amount of wealth that the players are being screwed out of at any level. And no amount of wealth at EMU’s level or below If Michigan and Michigan St players get their $20k a year on top of the scholarship, they should still try to get thier degree.

The big money is in payments from the booster collectives. Or if the player is an absolute star and gets genuine endorsement deals. And EMU’s fan base will never come close to competing with those.

(04-15-2024 01:22 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(04-15-2024 12:19 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  Yeah I mean one of the red herrings in this is the ideal that this compensation would EVER be equal across the board. Of course it isnt. A player attending Alabama or Notre Dame or USC has a lot more to bargain for than a player at EMU or CMU or WMU who has a lot more to bargain for than a player at Framingham State or Bridgewater State or Firtchburg State (all real div II schools in Massachusetts that offer football). The same goes for different sports. Yeah football players command more bargaining power than say a diver or cross country runner. Is it fair? Sure. Dr Pepper doesnt sponsor fansville for diving (i would watch the hell out of those ads though).

Responding to only last comment to condense the thread a bit…

So the MAC has a $8,000,000 a year tv deal (as far as I can tell). That is $666,666 per team. Say the players are entitled to negotiate for percentage of that. Assuming 98 players (85 football scholarships, 13 basketball scholarships, walkons get nothing), if they can negotiate 1% of that that is $68 per year per player. The share of wealth for EMU’s level of athlete is negligible- it would be $6.80 per year for someone at Framingham State.

If Michigan players wanted the same arbitrary/hypothetical 1% share of the $229,000,000 revenue that their athletic department brought in. Then it would be distributed as $23,854 per year per 98 scholarship football and basketball players. Scholarships would still be the primary form of compensation for most of these players.

I understand your points. But I just don’t think there is this vast amount of wealth that the players are being screwed out of at any level. And no amount of wealth at EMU’s level or below If Michigan and Michigan St players get their $20k a year on top of the scholarship, they should still try to get thier degree.

The big money is in payments from the booster collectives. Or if the player is an absolute star and gets genuine endorsement deals. And EMU’s fan base will never come close to competing with those.

Texas A and M is paying 75 million dollars to jimbo not to coach. SMU is throwing hundreds of millions of dollars to not get paid by the ACC just to be in the conference. There's money out there. Is it EMU money? no of course not. But its always been a bit of a false equivalence to compare us to the big dogs.

Real talk i think the next step in NIL is bowl games paying kids NOT to sit out.

(04-15-2024 01:22 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(04-15-2024 12:19 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  Yeah I mean one of the red herrings in this is the ideal that this compensation would EVER be equal across the board. Of course it isnt. A player attending Alabama or Notre Dame or USC has a lot more to bargain for than a player at EMU or CMU or WMU who has a lot more to bargain for than a player at Framingham State or Bridgewater State or Firtchburg State (all real div II schools in Massachusetts that offer football). The same goes for different sports. Yeah football players command more bargaining power than say a diver or cross country runner. Is it fair? Sure. Dr Pepper doesnt sponsor fansville for diving (i would watch the hell out of those ads though).

Responding to only last comment to condense the thread a bit…

So the MAC has a $8,000,000 a year tv deal (as far as I can tell). That is $666,666 per team. Say the players are entitled to negotiate for percentage of that. Assuming 98 players (85 football scholarships, 13 basketball scholarships, walkons get nothing), if they can negotiate 1% of that that is $68 per year per player. The share of wealth for EMU’s level of athlete is negligible- it would be $6.80 per year for someone at Framingham State.

If Michigan players wanted the same arbitrary/hypothetical 1% share of the $229,000,000 revenue that their athletic department brought in. Then it would be distributed as $23,854 per year per 98 scholarship football and basketball players. Scholarships would still be the primary form of compensation for most of these players.

I understand your points. But I just don’t think there is this vast amount of wealth that the players are being screwed out of at any level. And no amount of wealth at EMU’s level or below If Michigan and Michigan St players get their $20k a year on top of the scholarship, they should still try to get thier degree.

The big money is in payments from the booster collectives. Or if the player is an absolute star and gets genuine endorsement deals. And EMU’s fan base will never come close to competing with those.

I totally agree. Keep in mind that EMU's scholarship athletes are NOT on the list of those targeted for college debt forgiveness. They are, indeed compensated to a degree and the cost of the sports they participate in are subsidized by other students.

It seems clear what is going to happen.

Two conferences comprised of money-making schools will emerge and pay their players handsomely as they will negotiate lucrative TV deals and fill their stadiums.

The others like EMU will still present a product that I want to attend because I love sports. Can we expect a Maxx Crosby to stay at EMU for four years? Hell NO, he is transferring to Texas! It will be a different world, but we can adjust to it, much like freshman eligibility and free agency in pro sports.

(04-15-2024 06:57 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  I totally agree. Keep in mind that EMU's scholarship athletes are NOT on the list of those targeted for college debt forgiveness. They are, indeed compensated to a degree and the cost of the sports they participate in are subsidized by other students.

It seems clear what is going to happen.

Two conferences comprised of money-making schools will emerge and pay their players handsomely as they will negotiate lucrative TV deals and fill their stadiums.

The others like EMU will still present a product that I want to attend because I love sports. Can we expect a Maxx Crosby to stay at EMU for four years? Hell NO, he is transferring to Texas! It will be a different world, but we can adjust to it, much like freshman eligibility and free agency in pro sports.

Jerry, a ways back you said something to the effect that “EMU will no longer have the pretense to say they are competing with the Big10”. Very, very true and enlightening words. Might even be better that way to know your place and enjoy it nonetheless.

Plus,we probably will see higher level recruits then we are accustomed to seeing in the past since slots at the high majors are being taken up by transfers. Just won’t get them for 4 years as you say.